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General => Armed Forces => World War Two => Topic started by: WelwynGC1 on Friday 05 June 09 11:16 BST (UK)
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For a long time l have wanted to write something that my family could keep in the future about my Uncle who was lost on ops to Berlin in 1943. I have written about Runnymede where he is commemorated, about his base in 100 squadron at Waltham, and details of his service records. I finished it recently and called it "Honour The Brave", as l believe all the bomber boys should be honoured and their sacrifice never forgotten.
I am delighted to say that the project has been well received and one family member suggested that if there were any family of his crew members remaining they might like something similar. So the purpose of this post, although a long shot, is to attempt to trace some if possible. These are the names of the other six members of his crew....
ERIC BERTRAM HARVEY of Kircaldy, Fife
ARTHUR LEONARD KENT of Holborn, London
ROLAND ERIC LANGFORD of Hove
CHARLES LAMBERT HAMILTON of Belfast
WILFRED FRANK GARNER of Bromley, Kent
LORIMER SEYMOUR REYNOLDS of Norwich.
LANCASTER JA969 HW-N Lost without trace on 3/4 Sept 1943.
JOHN WILLIAM HAYTON of Welwyn Garden City (my uncle)
Little chance maybe but worth a go. Thanks for reading.
Steve.
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It will be a long shot if anybody can help on this forum Steve.
I found five of the six families of my cousins crew by finding out who were the local newspapers in the area that they lived and emailing them a letter for publication asking for help for informatin regarding the casualty.
It took me a number of years to find some relatives and after deciding that I would leave the quest alone for 12 months as I had seemed to have hit a brick wall, when I resumed, withinin week I had made contact with two families by emailing the same newspapers I had a year earlier.
By setting up the web site I have on my crew, other relatives including those of two other Lancaster crews that I have on the site and who had typed their relatives name into Google contacted me.
The difficult ones will be in the London area and don't forget to look the crew up on the CWGC web site and use any family information found on there in your email ie. parents, wives names and any address.
www.lancastered627.bravehost.com
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Hi Papa1, thanks for your reply, l do have the names of family of each of the crew so that would be the best place to start.
I figured that if there are family of my Uncle, three surviving siblings including my Dad, there is a fair chance that the others have some family too.
A long shot l know, and maybe not the right place to post, but thanks anyway for your kind advice.
Steve.
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For a long time l have wanted to write something that my family could keep in the future about my Uncle who was lost on ops to Berlin in 1943. I have written about Runnymede where he is commemorated, about his base in 100 squadron at Waltham, and details of his service records. I finished it recently and called it "Honour The Brave", as l believe all the bomber boys should be honoured and their sacrifice never forgotten.
I am delighted to say that the project has been well received and one family member suggested that if there were any family of his crew members remaining they might like something similar. So the purpose of this post, although a long shot, is to attempt to trace some if possible. These are the names of the other six members of his crew....
ERIC BERTRAM HARVEY of Kircaldy, Fife
ARTHUR LEONARD KENT of Holborn, London
ROLAND ERIC LANGFORD of Hove
CHARLES LAMBERT HAMILTON of Belfast
WILFRED FRANK GARNER of Bromley, Kent
LORIMER SEYMOUR REYNOLDS of Norwich.
LANCASTER JA969 HW-N Lost without trace on 3/4 Sept 1943.
JOHN WILLIAM HAYTON of Welwyn Garden City (my uncle)
Little chance maybe but worth a go. Thanks for reading.
Steve.
Having now obtained a copy of Chorleys wonderful Roll of Honour book, l discovered that l have done Sgt Reynolds a diservice.....
He was from Rhodesia and his wife lived in Norwich.
Steve.
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Hi Steve,
well done on your research.
Have you thought about contacting the Squadron Association:
http://www.100squadronassociation.org.uk/main.html
Regards,
Thudders
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Thanks for that Thudders.....looked at the site many times, seems that most of it is under construction.
They were supposed to be producing a 100 squadron DVD history but dont know if it came about.
Will keep looking though.
Steve.
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There's been a lot of in fighting about the 100 Squadron web site (s). I personally have been involved with them in the past about one of 100 Squadron Lacasters that was lost and what I found was that you were expected to give more information than they were prepared to give you.
In my own case when I spoke to their so called archivist, I found that he had robbed my own web sites of all the information and photographs that were on them and at no time has credited me for the information.
A web site that should be avoided and is a total discredit to Bomber Command and its men.
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Thats a shame Papa1...though it does not surprise me.
The only dealings l have had are with someone who produced a fantastic roll of honour for the squadron but most of his site was always "Under Construction".
Maybe they were all trying to amalgamate and just argued the toss about who would provide what?
I read something about the production of a DVD and l remember emailing a name on the site and never getting a reply.
I would just recommend that superb book again by Ian Reid....Lancaster Operations....all about 100 Squadron. Took me 9 months to track down a copy as there is a picture in it of JA969, the Lanc my Uncle was in with his crew when they were lost. Also many pics of ED583.
There is one on Amazon at the moment.
I take this opportunity to say that the folk on this wonderful site have helped me more than anyone since l started my quest to find out more about my Uncle.
I knew the end of the story and now l have the rest too.
So thanks due....to all of you.....without whom..........
Steve.
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Thanks Steve.
Someone sent me a photo of ED583 from a book so I am guessing it must be from Ian Reid's.
I'll check to see if its in my local library as they have all the volumes of Bill Chorley's Bomber Command Losses there.
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Hi Steve ,
I am sure you are aware of Larry's excellent and more or less definitive Lancaster Site.Just in case you aren't heres the link.
http://www.lancaster-archive.com/lanc_main_page.htm
Regards Rog.
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Good morning guys, just a refresh of this topic three years on, must try and locate some local newspapers for the various places.
In the hope that a relative may spot something familiar?
Recently joined the 100 squadron association so might get some joy there, things seem to have settled down a lot.
A very merry Xmas to all who have helped me, you are diamonds!! ;) ;) ;)
Steve.
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Good morning all, another blatant refresh l know but lets try a different angle......do you live in or near one of the places that the crew were from and if so can you tell me what the local newspaper is called??
The London ones l can deal with but the others present more problems, Kircaldy for instance in Fife, Scotland would be a start.
This is the next part of my research, l really want to find someone who is related to one of the guys who was part of my Uncles ill-fated crew. Would love to make my Uncles story into something about all of the crew.
Regards,
Steve WelwynGC1
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This newspaper obviously is happy to carry such stories and there is a contact name:
http://www.fifetoday.co.uk/news/local-headlines/family-of-ww1-soldier-sought-1-3004198
Note the correct spelling, Kirkcaldy.
Imber
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Good morning all, another blatant refresh l know but lets try a different angle......do you live in or near one of the places that the crew were from and if so can you tell me what the local newspaper is called??
The London ones l can deal with but the others present more problems, Kircaldy for instance in Fife, Scotland would be a start.
This is the next part of my research, l really want to find someone who is related to one of the guys who was part of my Uncles ill-fated crew. Would love to make my Uncles story into something about all of the crew.
Regards,
Steve WelwynGC1
Belfast Telegraph
Belfast Northern Whig
Irish News
and if memory serves me The Belfast Newsletter.
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Thanks guys for those details, and especially for the spelling lesson (lol) :) :)
That will certainly be a start, will post any results,
Steve.
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For Norwich try
Eastern Daily Press
Prospect House
Rouen Road
Norwich
NR1 1RE
Telephone: 01603 628311
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Thanks for that info Pete, much appreciated.
I have already contacted "Fife Today" and got the ball rolling on info requests about my Uncles Pilot who was from Kirkcaldy.
Enjoy the weekend all!!
Steve.
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Steve, it may not get you any further, but here is the RAF Loss Card link giving some further details of the crew, equipment and take off time for JA696, which you may not have seen.
http://www.lancasterbombers.net/Loss_Cards/1943/Sept_43/Sept_43_Pt1/files/book.swf
John is shown as being the mid upper gunner.
100 squadron also lost JA630 that night. The bomb aimer in that crew DOES have a known grave, yet all other members of BOTH crews are on Runnymede.
HARRILL, EDWARD CHARLES. Rank: Pilot Officer. Trade: Air Bomber. Service No: 157285. Date of Death: 04/09/1943. Age: 28
Regiment/Service: Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve. 100 Sqdn.
Grave Reference: 1. K. 17. Cemetery: BERLIN 1939-1945 WAR CEMETERY
Additional Information: Son of Edgar George Collins Harrill and Edith Ella Harrill, of Cheddar, Somerset.
Their Loss Card seems to note that he was buried in Heerstrasse BMC. Plot 1, Row K. Grave 17.
John King was also identified, together with 4 unknowns, yet he is on Runnymede, so perhaps you might be able to pass this information on to 100 Squadron.
It could be that the JA930 crew might yet be identified if CWGC can advise if Harrill had any other related burials. It looks as if Heerstrasse was the original name for Reichswald, as the grave information is identical. If there are "Known Unto God" headstones around him, that suggests they are the rest of his crew.
KING, JOHN. Rank: Sergeant. Trade: W/Op. Service No: 1128416. Date of Death: 04/09/1943. Age: 30.
Regiment/Service: Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve. 100 Sqdn.
Panel Reference: Panel 155. Memorial: RUNNYMEDE MEMORIAL
Additional Information: Son of William and Winifred King; husband of Mary Catherine King, of Skipton, Yorkshire.
Sorry, doesn't really get you much further, but another (small) part of the jigsaw.
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Thanks for that Kevin, already have most of that but not seen the loss card before.
My Uncle John was not Mid Upper, definitely the RG and it says that on the loss card l think??
Thanks,
Steve.
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The other Lanc lost from 100Squadron that night was JA 930 not 630 l think.
Four days before my Uncle had flown to Berlin in that Lanc on his first op.
Have been to Runnymede and seen all the names, made a short film too.
Steve.
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The loss card provides a route section which l have not seen before, and l think its identical to the one on previous page for JA930?
Takes a bit of deciphering but new info to me all the same, thanks Kevin!!
Steve.
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Hi Steve,
I was really excited to read your post. Wilfred Frank Garner (the family knew him as Frank) was my Great Uncle. I obviously never knew him but he had a twin sister who kept his memory alive. I, and the rest of the family (sadly none from that generation) would love to hear what you found out about their war service. I have photos of Frank in uniform and with his comrades, possibly your uncle, which I would be very happy to share.
Let me know the best way to contact you directly if you are interested.
Best wishes
Victoria
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Hi Victoria, l am so delighted to have made contact.
Since l wrote my booklet about my Uncle, who as you probably know was the rear gunner in your Great Uncles crew, l have wanted to try and find some connections, hence this subject.
My Brother and l made a short film at Runnymede memorial where we showed all the names of the crew including WF Garner!! Would love to send you a copy and exchange info also.
Will send you contact details via a personal message though l am not sure you can receive PM`s until you have posted 5 times- will give it a go anyway.
Thankyou so much for replying, l am gobsmacked to say the least!!
Best regards,
Steve Welwyn garden City.
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Hi Steve
Is it worth putting an entry on each of the county ones on here with the details from the CWGC entry. Glad to see you have managed to find Victoria. That a great start!
Are you on Ancestry? Is it worth seeing if there is a public family tree that has your guys on? I found some relatives via a second or third cousin by that method?
Best wishes
Dee
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Thanks for the tips Dee, something else to consider.
Also made connection this week with family of the Pilot in my Uncles crew, will post a pic in due course if they give me permission to post.
Hope all is well with you, see you on Members day??
Steve.
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Thanks for the tips Dee, something else to consider.
Also made connection this week with family of the Pilot in my Uncles crew, will post a pic in due course if they give me permission to post.
Hope all is well with you, see you on Members day??
Steve.
If I get my ticket. Hadnt had it so emailed them but have heard nothing. Will try ringing them.
Dee
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Glad to see things are still rolling along Steve.
Regards
Pete
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Hi Pete, really taken off in the last week, always hoped their was someone out there related to members of his crew, lo and behold two turn up at once. Hope to post a photo later.
Hope all is well with you, watch this space!!
Steve.
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Apologies, l was unable to post a photo as the file is too large and l dont know how to change it.
Steve.
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Here is a photo of the Bomb Aimer in my Uncles ill fated crew,
Wilfred Frank Garner, known to his family as Frank. Never forgotten.
Thanks to Victoria for permission to post.
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What a great pic :)
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Well thats amazing folks, info on two members of my Uncles crew within hours of eachother, and some great pictures too, just shows what can be acheived.
Thanks again to all those who posted suggestions for contacts etc. much appreciated.
The search continues, thanks to RC, without which..................
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Good morning all and happy Easter!!
Another blatant refresh to keep it going, still searching for more family members of my Uncles ill fated crew.....heres hoping please read.
Thankyou!!
Steve.
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Hi Steve
Just my annual check in, hope all is well with you!
Pete
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Hi Pete and thanks for the refresh!!
Found two last year as you will have seen, a third proved unsuccessful but still plugging away.
A few shows booked to see the two Lancasters over the next few weeks, the Canadian Lanc arrives on Friday in the UK.
Only thing we cant arrange is the weather, but heres hoping!
Good to hear from you,
Steve.
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As a kid I lived in Canada - about 1981 my Dad and I did a roadtrip type journey - Zicremember driving into this tiny one-horse railroad settlement and seeing that Lanc on display, prior to renovation. Real surprise in the middle of nowhere!
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Steve
Are you on Facebook yet? If not you must because there are some good groups that it would be great if you could post something on:
Support the Bomber Command Memorial
Bomber Command Research group
Lancaster the most beautiful aircraft in the world
Short Stirling
Halifax
and so it goes on :)
See you in September at BBMF :)
Dee
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Hi dee, yes l am back on FB at the moment, looking at all the footage of the two Lancs.
You seem to be everywhere on there wish l had your energy!
Looks like my first two lancs show on Sunday at Sywell will be a no-go with the weather, but there are more chances.
Little Gransden, Bournemouth, Duxford, ground tour 9/9.
Then of course after Vera has gone home there is members day at BBMF, shame we cant arrange the weather.
I was very envious of you being there when Vera arrived, must have been so emotional.
I have been known to shed a few tears when l see one Lanc so two is going to be awesome.
Always imagine my Uncle is up there in the rear turret.
Best regards,
Steve.
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Sorry not to have answered before (have been Lancaster chasing :) )
See you soon :)
Dee
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Yes Dee, l joked that l will start a new group, Lancaster Groupies!!
Problem with my FB, the language suddenly changed on it-weird, so its deactivated at the moment until l sort it out.
Might unfollow some of those groups, some people say some really stupid things on there that are not very grownup.
Say hello on members day, book some sunshine!! lol
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There is now VeRA and Just Jane FB pages you might want to join plus Lisa's Lancaster :) Pity VeRA flew out on 23rd but hope she gets home safely now shes gone :)
Dee :)
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Good morning all, it has been a while since this had a refresh so here goes, looking for family of my Uncles ill-fated Lancaster crew.
Realise it may be upsetting for some but remember this.....when l commemorate my Uncle l always include his six Lancaster crew mates.
Never forgotten.
Steve.
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Apologies for another blatant refresh, but someone new to this wonderful site may spot something familiar and pass it on.
Runnymede annual remembrance service again in a week or two, hope to see you and say hello as usual DEE, hope all is well with all you researching folk out there.
Never forget the Bomber Boys.
Steve.
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Apologies for another blatant refresh, but someone new to this wonderful site may spot something familiar and pass it on.
Runnymede annual remembrance service again in a week or two, hope to see you and say hello as usual DEE, hope all is well with all you researching folk out there.
Never forget the Bomber Boys.
Steve.
11am 8/5/16 (be there for 10.30 b4 the bigwigs arrive) and yes I will be there Steve..
Dee
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Apologies for another blatant refresh but there iis always the chance that a relative may spot the thread and get in touch like two did previously.
Currently looking at the Norwich area for connections with the mid-upper gunner in my Uncle`s crew, Lorimer Seymour Reynolds, who was Rhodesian but had settled in the area.
Good hunting :) :)
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Well, having spent about ten years researching my Uncles RAF history l am now proud to report that his story is now in print for all time in a recently published book.
BOMBER COMMAND BATTLE OF BERLIN-FAILED TO RETURN.
My heartfelt thanks to my friend and local bomber command historian Dr Robert Owen and to all those kind folk on this fantastic site that have helped me along the way.
If you are doing something similar in research, there are always people here to provide help and encouragement.
And also, relatives of two of my uncles crew who were kind enough to contact me, might like to know that your relatives get a mention in the book too
Don`t ever give up!!
Steve.
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Another refresh of this topic, still searching for possible surviving family members of my Uncle`s ill fated crew.
Thanks.
Steve.
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Kevin,
I am a historian/documentary film producer here in Texas. One of my very good friends is the son JA930 rear gunner Fred H. Davis, who was from a Texas town near here. I am working on a brief film about the flight on September 3, 1943 when the crew was lost. I am trying to locate the families of the other crew. I have all the World War II addresses from a letter sent to the other six families from F/O Gardiner's father. Please contact me if you would.
Dr. Vernon L. Williams
Steve, it may not get you any further, but here is the RAF Loss Card link giving some further details of the crew, equipment and take off time for JA696, which you may not have seen.
http://www.lancasterbombers.net/Loss_Cards/1943/Sept_43/Sept_43_Pt1/files/book.swf
John is shown as being the mid upper gunner.
100 squadron also lost JA630 that night. The bomb aimer in that crew DOES have a known grave, yet all other members of BOTH crews are on Runnymede.
HARRILL, EDWARD CHARLES. Rank: Pilot Officer. Trade: Air Bomber. Service No: 157285. Date of Death: 04/09/1943. Age: 28
Regiment/Service: Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve. 100 Sqdn.
Grave Reference: 1. K. 17. Cemetery: BERLIN 1939-1945 WAR CEMETERY
Additional Information: Son of Edgar George Collins Harrill and Edith Ella Harrill, of Cheddar, Somerset.
Their Loss Card seems to note that he was buried in Heerstrasse BMC. Plot 1, Row K. Grave 17.
John King was also identified, together with 4 unknowns, yet he is on Runnymede, so perhaps you might be able to pass this information on to 100 Squadron.
It could be that the JA930 crew might yet be identified if CWGC can advise if Harrill had any other related burials. It looks as if Heerstrasse was the original name for Reichswald, as the grave information is identical. If there are "Known Unto God" headstones around him, that suggests they are the rest of his crew.
KING, JOHN. Rank: Sergeant. Trade: W/Op. Service No: 1128416. Date of Death: 04/09/1943. Age: 30.
Regiment/Service: Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve. 100 Sqdn.
Panel Reference: Panel 155. Memorial: RUNNYMEDE MEMORIAL
Additional Information: Son of William and Winifred King; husband of Mary Catherine King, of Skipton, Yorkshire.
Sorry, doesn't really get you much further, but another (small) part of the jigsaw.
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Pretty sure the lady in this youtube video is Arthur Leonard Kent’s mother. His nephew is the one who posted it I think.
https://youtu.be/7MiWq5oHKn8
Regards
Nicola
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Hi Nic, sorry l did not see your reply before.
That`s very interesting and l will have a proper look later.
Be good to contact the family as l have only made contact with two families of his six crew mates before now.
Thank you!!
Steve.
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Pretty sure the lady in this youtube video is Arthur Leonard Kent’s mother. His nephew is the one who posted it I think.
https://youtu.be/7MiWq5oHKn8
Regards
Nicola
Strange that l cannot find anything on that clip to connect her to AL Kent.
Did l miss something????