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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: English Jen on Thursday 24 February 05 14:55 GMT (UK)
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Hi
I don't know if anyone can help me, I didn't know where to post this (so moderator's please feel free to move it!!). I have two overseas births that I can't find. William Sheehan, born Gibralter, about 1866 and Daniel Sheehan, born Poona, India about 1869-71. I've tried searching on 1837online in Overseas Births, but I can't find them anywhere ... am I missing something? Any help gratefully received.
Kind regards
English Jen.
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English Jen
I have recently had to start looking for births etc in India and found a very useful site
http://www.fibis.org/
This gives a number of links.
If the person you are looking for worked for The East India Company his birth will be recorded in the Ecclesiastical Returns which can be seen at the East India Office. My understanding is that you will not find BMDs for Company employees in the GRO records.
If you have any further queries after you have had a look at the site I will try to help but I too am a real novice when it comes to Indian research ???
Barbara F
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Hi Barbara
Daniel (the father) was a private in the Indian Army and spent quite a bit of time in Gibralter and East India. I think it's a bit odd that his wife went with him as well. I presumed that they would both be listed in the overseas section at GRO. Is that not the case? I've had a quick look at the site that you suggested, but to tell you the truth I don't really know what I'm looking for!!!!! :-[
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I understand that the main requirement is to establish whether someone was in the British Army or one of the armies of the East India Company. This is an extract from the FIBIS site
"British Library – India Office Records (IOR)
Reading Room – APAC (Asia, Pacific and Africa Collections)
formerly known as OIOC (Oriental and India Office Collections)
If your ancestor was employed as a civilian in any arm of government, such as the police, post office, railways or civil service, then his records are most likely to be kept at the Oriental and India Office Collections (formerly the India Office). This also applies if your ancestor served in the East India Company Army, but not the British Army. The link below describes what sort of material is available to the family historian. Generally, you will have to visit the Library in person to obtain the records, or hire a professional researcher. To visit the Library you will need to apply for a reader's ticket."
If he was in one of the East India Company Armies you need to look at the ecclesiastical returns.
An extract from Cathy Day's site (link from FIBIS)
"Soldier
If you only know that your ancestor was 'in the Army' in India, then you may have to search many records. It is most useful if you know whether he was in the British Army or the HEIC Army, and whether he was an officer or Other Rank (OR)."
As your ancestor was born late 1860s I think you may be best to look at this page
http://members.ozemail.com.au/~clday/other.htm#military
Hope this helps.
Barbara
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Hi Barbara,
Can you advise on this one?
All relevant UK Census returns show MAY SANDYS as born BELLARY, INDIA (with an age indicating born 1865).
Her parents were definitely neither military nor East India Co. --- I believe they were on some kind of tour.
Any advice on confirming May's birth date, and getting any available information connected with it ?
kind regards, Percy
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Hi Barbara
This is where I end up going round in circles. Daniel was in the British Army for which I have his papers. On these papers it also states "Allowed to reckon former service in Indian Army Authority dated War Office 3/2/1863" etc. From websites that I've looked at the HEIC Army disbanded after the Indian Mutiny and all the soldiers where asked if they wanted to go into the British Army. His service in British Army ties in with this (he was also in receipt of the Indian Mutiny Medal). So according to that I need to look at Ecclesiastical Returns ... is that right? So is that at India House?
Many thanks for your help so far
Kind regards
English Jen.
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Hello both
I am struggling a bit here as I have only just started on India research myself and my Lewin family were definitely Civil Servants which makes the options pretty clear.
I have had a look at the FIBIS site and Cathy Day's again to see if I can find anyting useful.
I think this sets the picture
(from Cathy Day's site)
Church Records
India had no civil registration (including birth certificates) as such. The next best thing for a genealogist is to use Church Records. About 80% of all baptism, marriage and burial records have survived today, and the good news is that they are all indexed and available on microfilm. Records of baptisms, marriages and burials are available 1698-1968, and are housed in the OIOC in London. If you live outside London, then the best way to have access to these records is to use the LDS (Mormon) microfilms, which will be available in an LDS Family History Centre near you. For details on how to use the OIOC records on microfilm, some transcriptions, addresses and photos of churches in India, visit the webpage on Church Records.
Some regiments of the British Army (not the HEIC Army) chose to have their records included in the General Registrar's Office records at what was formerly called St Catherine's House, in London. If your ancestor was in the British Army and you are unable to find your ancestor's baptism record in the church records held at the OIOC or on microfilm, there is a chance that they will be available in the Army Ecclesiastical Returns of the General Registrar's Office. Indexes to these records are available in most genealogical libraries and family history societies.
I think that may answer your question Jen. The India Office reading room is in The British Library.
Details here:
http://www.bl.uk/collections/oiocfamilyhistory/family.html
I have had a look at my reference books to find out the position of overseas births generally. The Family Tree Detective by Colin D Rogers says
" It has always been optional for British Citizens (males only until 1983) to register the birth of their legitimate or legitimated children born abroad with a British consul........"
Also
"Those births which are registered with a Consul are recorded in the Consular Returns and/or the Chaplain's Returns from 1849 or occasionally earlier"
I have no personal experience of looking for Army Records or overseas births (other than the East India Company ones).
My inclination would be to try the Ecclesiastical Returns if other options have failed.
Incidentally Richard Lewin, one of the ancestors I am researching, died in Bellary in 1858 so I know it is in the Madras Presidency.
Hope this helps
Barbara
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Hi Barbara
Thanks a lot for the info. Looks like a trip to London for me!!!!
Thanks for taking the time to do that for me.
Kind regards
English Jen.
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Hi Barbara
Thank you for that .
regards, Percy.
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Hi Jen My grandfather was born at Aldershot army barracks in 1871 while his father was serving in the British army. I found his birth on a list of "Army births" at our WA genealogical society, so there is a publication around.
His birth was also recorded on the GRO index.
Hope this helps.
Shirley
West Oz
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Have a look at http://members.ozemail.com.au/~clday/misc.htm which has various lists and contacts about the British in India both Army (British and East India Company) and Civilian
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Have a look at:
http://www.history.ac.uk/gh/overseas.htm
which among other things mentions the following book:
The British Overseas: a guide to records of their births, baptisms, marriages, deaths and burials available in the United Kingdom (3rd edition, 1994) published by Guildhall Library
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David
Thanks for that link. I have bookmarked it for future reference - although I'm hoping I won't need it ;D
Barbara