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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => London and Middlesex => England => London & Middlesex Resources => Topic started by: BarnabyP on Friday 12 June 09 15:14 BST (UK)

Title: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: BarnabyP on Friday 12 June 09 15:14 BST (UK)
Hello Rootschatters.

I have been slowly working on a project to get transcribed indexes for books in the Registers of Leavers for the Metropolitan Police (London). As a by-product of this I have uploaded the photographs that I am using on to flickr.

There are transcribed indexes for some of the <a href="http://yourarchives.nationalarchives.gov.uk/index.php?title=Category:Metropolitan_Police_Registers_Of_Leavers">Registers of Leavers</a> on <a href="http://yourarchives.nationalarchives.gov.uk/">Your Archives</a>. There are also <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/naphotorecords/collections/72157613987467704/">photographs</a> for all but a few of the pages of these books on flickr too. I am going to continue to add the transcribed indexes as and when I complete them to the <a href="http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/">National Archives'</a> <a href="http://yourarchives.nationalarchives.gov.uk/">Your Archives</a> website.

Other records also include the <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/naphotorecords/collections/72157615952312310/">Numerical Registers</a>, which cover the very first officers who joined the force. There are also some of the <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/naphotorecords/collections/72157618696862035/">Attestation Ledgers</a>.

I hope that it's all helpful for other people researching their family history.
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: jaywit on Friday 12 June 09 21:13 BST (UK)
That is brilliant, found my great uncle had been dismised after almost 5 years service. Wonder what he had been up to? ;D ;D
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: BarnabyP on Friday 12 June 09 22:26 BST (UK)
There might be a record somewhere else in the National Archives collection that has more information.
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: jc26red on Friday 12 June 09 22:57 BST (UK)
what a star you are!

jaywit told me of your wonderful resources, I found a ggrandfather on one of the leavers photographs. I already knew the date he died which made it quite simple to find him!

 Brilliant!
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: BarnabyP on Friday 12 June 09 23:24 BST (UK)
Glad that it's of use. I have other photographs that will go up in the near-ish future.
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: jc26red on Friday 12 June 09 23:28 BST (UK)
Wonderful, just found him the Attestation ledger too, which is nice as it has his signature!

a very big thank-you!
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: geniecolgan on Friday 12 June 09 23:34 BST (UK)
I'd like to look for gt grandad Charles Colgan warrant 58785 but I can't seem to get to the links. What am I doing wrong ?  >:(
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: jc26red on Friday 12 June 09 23:51 BST (UK)
Hi Jen
his attestation will probably be before my ggrandfather's. His number was 63095 and he joined 19 Aug 1878

try opening MEPO 4/352  there are 138 photos, I think it will be in that folder.  You need to scroll through them, they are in numeric order

good luck
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: jc26red on Friday 12 June 09 23:55 BST (UK)
Try this link Jen  ;)

straight to him

http://www.rootschat.com/links/06hb/
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: geniecolgan on Saturday 13 June 09 00:12 BST (UK)
Thank you jc26red, that's great ... and thank you BarnabyP for providing the images.
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: BarnabyP on Saturday 13 June 09 13:53 BST (UK)
Hello geniecolgan. I have just had a look through my unchecked list of leavers and Charles Colgan can be found at the top of  <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/naphotorecords/3244675346/in/set-72157613200718169/">MEPO 4/341 Pages 137 and 138</a>. Transcript of which can be found on <a href="http://yourarchives.nationalarchives.gov.uk/index.php?title=MEPO_4/341_Pages_137_and_138">Your Archives</a>.
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: geniecolgan on Saturday 13 June 09 14:55 BST (UK)
Hello Barnaby,

that's marvelous! My thanks to you, I now have gt. grandad joining and leaving, he's well and truly "nicked"  ;D

genie
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: BarnabyP on Saturday 13 June 09 15:08 BST (UK)
Hello again Genie. There is a chance, given the amount of time that he served (abt. 25 yrs), that there's a pension record for him. I would imagine that it would be under <a href="http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/displaycataloguedetails.asp?CATLN=6&CATID=109772&SearchInit=4&CATREF=MEPO+21%2F29">MEPO 21/29</a>, as this record covers that period of time.

The National Archives has a guide called <a href="http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/RdLeaflet.asp?sLeafletID=104">Metropolitan Police (London): Records of Service</a> that might be of some use should you look further.
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: geniecolgan on Saturday 13 June 09 16:55 BST (UK)
Hi Barnaby,

thank you again.

The guide is most informative about the codes used within each record. I now know that gt. grandad left with an excellent record  :)

I already have a copy of his retirement records (provided by a cousin) but I will have a go at searching for his retirement records at The National Archives.

Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: PaulineJ on Saturday 13 June 09 17:21 BST (UK)
ok, very silly question:
I've found the correct page on flickr;

I can see the thumbnail and get a larger version. How to I enlarge the "larger version"?

Pauline
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: jc26red on Saturday 13 June 09 17:25 BST (UK)
just above there are size options, choose original.  Underneath,you will see the dimensions

Jenny
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: jimmijam on Saturday 13 June 09 18:38 BST (UK)
Hi BarnabyP,
Well done, there's a huge amount of work involved in there. 

I've had a look through for an ancestor who was in the Mounted Police in London in 1872. Do you have any records that early?
Best wishes, Jimmijam
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: BarnabyP on Saturday 13 June 09 18:44 BST (UK)
I don't have any photos of documents that cover that period of time. Sorry Jimmijam.

Good luck with the searching.

Barnaby
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: PaulineJ on Saturday 13 June 09 18:52 BST (UK)
just above there are size options, choose original.  Underneath,you will see the dimensions

Jenny

Can't see those options..  Should I be registered/ signed in or something?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/naphotorecords/3243851957/in/set-72157613200718169/

Pauline
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: geniecolgan on Saturday 13 June 09 18:55 BST (UK)
Pauline,

click on the little magnifying glass, top left, just above the image.

P.S. I didn't register.
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: PaulineJ on Saturday 13 June 09 18:57 BST (UK)
Ok, for some reason, it's white-on-white on this laptop...

I'll go make some tea..

Pauline
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: jimmijam on Saturday 13 June 09 19:18 BST (UK)
Hi Barnaby,
Thanks very much for having a look for me,
Best wishes, Jimmijam
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: BarnabyP on Saturday 13 June 09 19:46 BST (UK)
Helllo Jimmijam. I answered from memory to your question. I have had a look and there are some officers that were attested into the Met force in 1872 - MEPO 4/352.  MEPO 4/352/73 is the start of the year for that record.

Do you know how long the officer served in the force? I don't know whether the records that I have cover the Mounted Police, though I don't see why not. I could have a look on the Registers of Leavers that I have, if you can't find it in the Your Archives selection - as I have a bigger list that I am checking before they go online. Do you know what date they left?

Yours, Barnaby
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: BarnabyP on Saturday 13 June 09 19:53 BST (UK)
Hello PaulineJ.

Sorry to hear that you are having trouble. I am going to assume that you have got to a page that looks like <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/naphotorecords/3563454000/in/set-72157618780182652/">MEPO 4/352/3</a>. In this case you should see a magnifying glass above the top left of the photograph, with the wording All Sizes next to it. You just need to click on this.

You should then be taken to a bigger page where you can look at the larger version called Original.

Barnaby
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: PaulineJ on Saturday 13 June 09 20:20 BST (UK)
Thanks Barnaby,  I have now managed to view it legibly. (still  no idea why my laptop has those icons white-on-white)
It's a wonderful addition to the resources and I can only admire you for transcribing & indexing it all.
It's a gem of a site.

Pauline
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: jimmijam on Sunday 14 June 09 12:21 BST (UK)
Hi Barnaby,
Thanks ever so much for doing further research for me.

My 2x great grandfather was Claud Behenna. He was born in 1849 in Kennington Oval, London. He joined the 2nd Dragoons, the "Royal Scots Grays" (RSG) a cavalry Regiment. In 1872, he was stationed in Perth Barracks.  By 1872/73, Claud (25) is a Police Constable, "50V" recorded on the birth certificate of my great grandmother in Nunhead, London. By the time of the 1881 census, he was aged 33 and a "Traveller (Mineral Waters)" in Camberwell, Surrey.

I assume that he had left the RSG c1872 and joined the Police and served for there for a period of time. According to other notes, he was a mounted Police Officer, "No. 500". I don't have any original documents for this information, but perhaps he joined this branch due to his army background.  If you can find anything further, we'd be delighted to hear about it.  Thank you so much for your amazing hard work.

Best wishes, Jimmijam
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: BarnabyP on Sunday 14 June 09 16:09 BST (UK)
I would just like to apologise to you all. I have created a reference schedule for 3 of the viewable Attestation Ledgers, which should make it easier to find people if you know their warrant number. I should have done this at the beginning. I assumed that all was okay with them. It turns out that there were some problems with namings of the photos and so these have been changed - for most of them it's been the removal of the double or single leading zeros.  I also found that some of the MEPO 4/352 photos were in MEPO 4/353, so I re-unted them.

They are much easier to look through now. I'm going to hide MEPO 4/356 until I have worked on this and the other two that I have photographs for. In future I'll check them before I make them visible.

Sorry  :-X
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: BarnabyP on Sunday 14 June 09 16:11 BST (UK)
Jimmijam. I've had a look, nothing ... yet. Will keep trying though, as there was one missing page that covered the period I was looking under and I'll give this a go the next time I'm at TNA.

Barnaby
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: jimmijam on Monday 15 June 09 20:17 BST (UK)
Hi Barnaby,

Once again, thanks very much for pursuing this for me. Living in Scotland means that I am unable to get down to the National Archives to search personally, so I really appreciate this,

Best wishes, Jimmijam
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: BarnabyP on Wednesday 17 June 09 13:48 BST (UK)
Jimmijam, good news. I have found Claude Behenna - complete with an extra E - on the page that I had somehow managed to miss photographing. His warrant number was 57176 and he was attested into division V of the force, on 8th September, 1873. Finding out when he left might require a little more searching. If I have time I'll give it a go. Hopefully this helps though.

I'll upload the photo later today.

Barnaby
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: jimmijam on Wednesday 17 June 09 15:13 BST (UK)
Oh my goodness, that's fantastic!

Thanks so much!
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: BarnabyP on Thursday 18 June 09 22:34 BST (UK)
Hello everyone. Just to let you all know that all of the Attestation Ledgers have been uploaded. There's a problem with one photograph being out of focus. I'll sort this out some when. There are reference indexes on Your Archives, so if you know the officers warrant number you can find the right photo quickly from these.

The quickest way to get to the photographed records is through the  Metropolitan Police Records (MEPO) (http://yourarchives.nationalarchives.gov.uk/index.php?title=Metropolitan_Police_Records_(MEPO)) page.

I have also made available the indexes for the Registers of Leavers. I will name these and include them on the Your Archives pages, for the books that don't have transcribed indexes. They are arranged by surname and should point you in the right direction.

I hope that this is yet still more helpful.

[EDITED: Friday 19 June 09 16:18 BST (UK) ] To make the link work.
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: elliejelly69 on Sunday 12 July 09 20:17 BST (UK)
Trying to locate a Detective Sargeant Harry Farrant, we have found he was still serving in the Met in 1917 but would love more info on him, eg warrent number, year he left etc. Thank you to jc26red for suggesting site and help so far. I have look through records you have on so far but didn't find Harry! 
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: BarnabyP on Monday 13 July 09 01:51 BST (UK)
Hello elliejelly69. I have had a look, albeit briefly, and have found a Harry Farrant at the bottom of page 65  (http://www.flickr.com/photos/naphotorecords/3388411244/in/set-72157615857757291/) (the left one) of MEPO 4/346. Is this the one that you are looking for? It has him as starting in 1895 and leaving in 1920. The warrant number is: 80399. The leaving date would fit with what you have.

I have also located the attestation record for this person on MEPO 4/355/133 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/naphotorecords/3636629538/in/set-72157619796037717/) (at the bottom right). Does the handwriting look familiar to you?

Hope is helpful, BarnabyP

P.S. I found a few other Farrants in the Registers of Leavers, are these also related?
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: elliejelly69 on Monday 13 July 09 18:03 BST (UK)
Thank you so much, it was really great to view these!!! could you tell me what the heading of the 5th column is with EX written in? Does it mean a trip to Kew for his pension record? and can you view his service record? where was division L? Brilliant site and help!
Elliejelly69
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: BarnabyP on Monday 13 July 09 18:48 BST (UK)
Hello elliejelly69. I believe that the Ex stands for excellent or exemplary. There's a good chance that there is a pension record for him at the National Archives, though I haven't photographed them at the moment. Like my great-great-grandfather, Harry was in the force for almost exactly 25 years, which is about the amount of time they needed to be in the force to receive a pension. I'll point you to the Metropolitan Police (London): Records of Service (http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/RdLeaflet.asp?sLeafletID=104) research guide on the National Archives' website for further information, instead of writing it here.

There does appear to be a chance that Harry has a service record too though.

Best of luck, BarnabyP
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: BarnabyP on Monday 03 August 09 23:52 BST (UK)
I just thought that I would add here that I have completed the first 7 books of the Registers of Leavers now. These cover the period from 1889 to 1919. This should help people searching for police officers that left in these 30 years.

You can find them on the Category:Metropolitan Police Registers Of Leavers (http://yourarchives.nationalarchives.gov.uk/index.php?title=Category:Metropolitan_Police_Registers_Of_Leavers).

Good searching, BarnabyP
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: jimmijam on Tuesday 04 August 09 09:00 BST (UK)
Hi BarnabyP,
As usual, you've put in a great deal of work to make available these records, well done!

Do you know if there are any ledgers for leavers earlier than 1897?

Best wishes,
Jimmijam
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: BarnabyP on Tuesday 04 August 09 11:15 BST (UK)
Thanks Jimmijam,

The Registers of Leavers start from 1889, which are the documents that I am working on.

Otherwise I know that the Police Orders (all the MEPO 7s) after a certain period have details of officers who left the force. There are a couple of indexes at the National Archives that can help with some of these. Though it's mostly a search involving patience, from what I can tell.

I think that the Alphabetical Registers of Joiners (MEPO 4/333 - MEPO 4/338) might also detail the date the officers left the force as well as joining. The Alphabetical Register (HO 65/26) covering 1829-1836 does have both those detail.

Forgot to add the Pension Records (MEPO 21s). Some of these have been indexed (http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/browser.asp?CATLN=3&CATID=9604&GPE=False&MARKER=0) and can be browsed in the National Archives catalogue.

Others might have more helpful advice.

Yours, BarnabyP
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: jimmijam on Tuesday 04 August 09 16:28 BST (UK)
Hi BarnabyP,
Thanks for your reply and the further information.

My best hope is trying to rope a relative into the hunt!

Best wishes, Jimmijam
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: Paul Caswell on Saturday 19 September 09 11:39 BST (UK)
Hi BarnabyP,

Thank you so much for your hard work!!

I found my gt grandfather's entry and leaving and I've finally found his warrant number!!!  :o

Sadly no sign of his pension details. I would expect he would have had a pension as he was a PC for 25 years.

Paul
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: Paul Caswell on Saturday 19 September 09 16:20 BST (UK)
Hi again.

Can you tell us what the column headings read in the Registers of Leavers? They are too blurred on the image to make out.

My gt grandad's reads:

J, 60306, PC, -, Speight George, 2, 7.5, -, -, 6, 1/5/76

What would the 2, 7.5 and 6 mean? I think the 2 refers to 1. Excellent, 2. Very Good. 3, Good, 4. Open, i.e. no comment.

Paul
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: BarnabyP on Saturday 19 September 09 19:04 BST (UK)
Hello Paul. The columns from left to right are:


The 2 is indeed the number of certificate issued - more about on YourArchives (http://yourarchives.nationalarchives.gov.uk/index.php?title=Metropolitan_Police_Records_of_Service). The 7.5 is the date that the certificate was sent (as listed above).

I too would imagine that there is a pension record for George. These are only at The National Archives. Though as you know when he left, it shouldn't be too hard to find if it exists. The pension records are held catalogued under MEPO 21 (http://yourarchives.nationalarchives.gov.uk/index.php?title=MEPO_21).

Hope that helps, BarnabyP
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: k182 on Saturday 19 September 09 20:48 BST (UK)
Hello.

Could someone help me, I have been going through the Police Records trying to find my Grandfather but I can't or I don't know how to use the Records.

The only information I have is that he was a Policeman in 1926 because my father was born in the station and that he must of left befor 1945 because at this time he had moved.

hope some can give me advice on how I could find any information on him.

thank you
k
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: Paul Caswell on Saturday 19 September 09 21:13 BST (UK)
Thanks BarnabyP, all clear now.  :)

Paul
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: BarnabyP on Monday 21 September 09 13:54 BST (UK)
Hello k182. Only just saw your message.

If your grandfather joined around 1926 I would suggest the Alphabetical Registers of Joiners or Attestation Ledgers. There are only photos of the Attestation Ledgers at the moment. I do have the Alphabetical Registers on photo but not yet available on flickr. If you let me know the person's name I can do a quick check for you.

The Metropolitan Police Records (MEPO) (http://yourarchives.nationalarchives.gov.uk/index.php?title=Metropolitan_Police_Records_%28MEPO%29) page on Your Archives is a good resource for finding out which books will be of help, if you want to go to The National Archives instead.

Hope that's of some help, BarnabyP
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: k182 on Monday 21 September 09 16:31 BST (UK)
Thank you for replying BarnabyP.
My Grandfather's name was J Buckland the station was in Hackney hope you can help.
I have been on this page (The Metropolitan Police Records (MEPO) page on Your Archives)and tryed to find him but i keep ending up at the same page so i think i am doing something wrong.

thank you
k
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: BarnabyP on Monday 21 September 09 17:31 BST (UK)
Hello K182.

I could only find two J Bucklands in the Alphabetical Register of Joiners running from 1902 to 1933. They were:

Warrant No. Names, Date of Joining, Division
101403, Buckland, James Andrew, 1912-06-24, W

Division W was Clapham though. There is a cancelled leaving for this person in the Registers of Leavers in 1915 and they were still in division W. They could have transferred though.

There was a James Alfred Buckland (96497) who joined in 1909 and left in 1924, who was in division N (which is around Islington) for that whole period.

Neither of these look helpful as neither meet the criteria given.

Yours, BarnabyP
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: k182 on Wednesday 23 September 09 10:54 BST (UK)
Hello BarnabyP

Thank you that is him James i didnt think he joined that early because in 1911 he was working in a warehouse.
Thats very intresting He must of transferred to Hackney maybe in 1915 in stead of leaving because he ended up as a Mounted Policeman working for the King.
Would i be able to get his records with his Warrant no and the dates.

Thank you again,
k182
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: BarnabyP on Wednesday 23 September 09 12:56 BST (UK)
Hello K182.

I have looked for a further leaving entry in the Registers of Leavers ahead of where I have transcribed up to - but have been unable to. If James had stayed in for 25 years (which is how long he would have had to, to have achieved a pension) then he would have re-left in Jun/Jul 1947. Unfortunately the Registers of Leavers only go up to January of 1947.

Is it possible that he left in Summer of that year or later? When he moved, did he leave London?

If he did leave after 1947 then there's a good chance that there's a pension record for him. I don't think TNA have any officer service records, so a pension record is your best chance.

Yours, BarnabyP
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: k182 on Wednesday 23 September 09 20:06 BST (UK)
Hello BarnabyP

On his wife DC he is a Police Pensioner that was in 1943 Colochester i dont know what year they moved.

What would be on a Pension Record?

Thank you
K182
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: mentmore on Wednesday 23 September 09 22:33 BST (UK)

Is someone kind enough to help? I cannot find my way around this Met Police Records site,

According to 1911 census Albert George Kent age 31 born Mentmore Bucks and Alfred Groom age 28 born Ivinghoe, Bucks were police constables.

Would appreciate if any records could be found.

Thank you
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: BarnabyP on Wednesday 23 September 09 22:41 BST (UK)
Hello K182

My great-great-grandfather, who left in 1901, had the following on his pension record:

Name (perhaps obviously)
Rank
Date of leaving
Amount of pay
Pension amount
Age on resignation (or date of birth)
Length of service
Height, hair and complexion
Information about service
Marital status
Next of kin
Present address
Pensioners signature

Things changed over the years, though.

Yours, BarnabyP
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: BarnabyP on Wednesday 23 September 09 23:26 BST (UK)
Hello Mentmore.

I have had a quick look on the 1901 census. It says that Albert Kent was a constable in the City Police. Which I would interpret to mean that he was in the City Of London Police. Do you know which force he was an officer in.

If he's a City of London Police Officer the documents about that force are not held at TNA. I did a quick search on Google and came-up with this page: What records do we hold? (http://www.cityoflondon.gov.uk/Corporation/LGNL_Services/Leisure_and_culture/Libraries/City_of_London_Records_Office/What+records+do+we+hold.htm). If you scroll down there are a series of links, one of the titled, 'City of London Police Officers'.

Is it possible that he could have transferred to the Metropolitan Police Force?

I found an Alfred Groom who joined the Metropolitan Police Force on 22nd June 1908 with Warrant No. 95846 and resigned 26 June 1933. This was found on the Alphabetical Registers of Joiners. But this information is also on the Attestation Ledger (http://www.flickr.com/photos/naphotorecords/3578619449/in/set-72157619559621571/) - does that look like his signature? - and the Register of Leavers (http://www.flickr.com/photos/naphotorecords/3388603134/in/set-72157615860872633/). This would generally be long enough for a pension to have been issued. With the date of leaving a pension record should be easy to find (under MEPO 21 at the National Archives).

Hopefully this is of some help, BarnabyP
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: mentmore on Wednesday 23 September 09 23:51 BST (UK)

Hi BarnabyP

Thanks for replying, as for Albert Kent all  have is from the 1901 census which states he is residing at Snow Hill Police Station, and a constable in the City police. I have emailed I think it was the LMA to enquire as to whether they hold records and have never received an reply.

But, I do thank you for the info on Alfred Groom.

Carol
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: Fay Turner on Thursday 15 October 09 20:33 BST (UK)
Hi Barnaby - I have tried to search for John James Turner who is listed on the 1901 census as a Constable in the Metropolitan Police aged 26 but I'm afraid I'm not getting very far!  Would you be able to do a quick look up for me please or tell me how to do it myself?

Many thanks.

Fay Turner
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: BarnabyP on Friday 16 October 09 13:49 BST (UK)
Hello Fay. I have just had a quick look and came-up with the following:

    John James Waldock Turner, Joined:1895, Left:1912, Wt No.:80815, ROL: MEPO 4/344 [Pg 86] (http://yourarchives.nationalarchives.gov.uk/index.php?title=MEPO_4/344_Pages_85_and_86).

Does the information look right? There are other James Turners, with different and no middle names. This one seems a good candidate though. You can see whether his signature on the Attestation Ledger matches that on the 1911 census - if he filled it in and/or if he signed it. You can get to further records (http://yourarchives.nationalarchives.gov.uk/index.php?title=Metropolitan_Police_Records_(MEPO)) through links on the site.

My advice for people searching is: The best way is to search Your Archives is using 'ROL' and the surname - Turner in this case and possibly the first name. This should then produce a list of relevant results.

Yours BarnabyP

[EDITED: Saturday 17 October 09 00:28 BST (UK)] To correct information.
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: jennyhawk on Friday 16 October 09 14:25 BST (UK)
hi

Can you look up William samuel wright he was a pc in k dision in london he was born in about 1888 died 1954 not sure how long he was a pc for or the time he was sorry not much to go on if you want any more info let me know

Jen
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: BarnabyP on Friday 16 October 09 20:01 BST (UK)
Hello Jen.

Just had a look and have found a William Samuel Wright on the Registers of Leavers MEPO 4/350 Page 14 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/naphotorecords/3387889227/in/set-72157615862601749/). There's no transcription but there is a picture - about half way down the right-hand page. You should also be able to find his signature on the Attestation Ledger and he appears to have been pensioned also.

Hope that's helpful, BarnabyP
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: jennyhawk on Saturday 17 October 09 16:17 BST (UK)
thank you so much for that cant found much more info with him having a pension as well, would there had been any pictures of them taken when they was in the met? love to found a picture of him, we think he was in the met for 20 years or more so he was in for a long time thank you again for the info you have found out

Jen ;D
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: BarnabyP on Saturday 17 October 09 18:41 BST (UK)
Hello Jen.

There might have been a picture of him taken while he was in the Met. Though I don't have any I'm afraid. Glad the rest was useful though.

BarnabyP
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: mentmore on Saturday 17 October 09 23:47 BST (UK)



I have a Met. Police officer who resigned from the force 1933, his rank is given as SPS which I think is Security Protective Service.  Who or what would he be protecting?

Thanks

Carol
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: BarnabyP on Sunday 18 October 09 01:50 BST (UK)
Hello Carol (Mentmore).

I think that the rank SPS stands for Station Police Sergeant - taken from the Police Orders website's Key/Glossary (http://free.dominoserver.de/information/podb.nsf/Key!OpenForm) page. I'm not sure what the role involved though. You might have to do a bit of searching on the matter.

Yours, BarnabyP
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: mentmore on Sunday 18 October 09 22:01 BST (UK)



Hello BarnabyP

Thanks, that more likely than what I came up with.

Thank you

Carol
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: maz1 on Monday 02 November 09 12:31 GMT (UK)
Hi Barnaby
where would I look for the following gentleman please.
Herbert A Shield who was stationed at Hornsey (North London) for most of his time and stayed in London during the war- he left the police in 1950
thanks ever so much
Marian
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: BarnabyP on Monday 02 November 09 14:40 GMT (UK)
Hello Marian.

I don't have any photographs of leaving information that recent. The Registers of Leavers only go up to 1947, unfortunately. However working on him being in the Force for 25 years, I have managed to find when he joined on the Attestation Ledgers - MEPO 4/358/151 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/naphotorecords/3622199658/in/set-72157619598686347/); he's near the bottom on the left page. If you wanted to find out when he resigned you would probably have to search through the Police Orders, contained in TNA's 'MEPO 7' series. You may also be able to find a pension for this officer in TNAs series 'MEPO 21'

Yours BarnabyP
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: maz1 on Monday 02 November 09 14:45 GMT (UK)
Hi BarnabyP
Thanks ever so for that, im off to look right now
thats great as i can pass info on to his son who lives in Australia whos in his 70s now. I have more info on his father than he does!!
thanks again
Marian
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: LucyMac on Tuesday 03 November 09 21:05 GMT (UK)
Hi i searched met police records on google and this came up and it seems to be just what i was looking for :)
I know my great grandad 'Ralph George Woolley' was in the met police, at camberwell and/or penge. Im not sure when he joined but died when my grandad was 5 in 1936, can anyone help me please? im really at a loose end and it would really be nice to find out some information before my grandads birthday.
Any help will be much appeciated.
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: BarnabyP on Tuesday 03 November 09 22:12 GMT (UK)
Hello. I have done a check against the Registers of Leavers and have found a 'Ralph George Woolley' MEPO 4/348 Page 54 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/naphotorecords/3388496060/in/set-72157615945731220/). He joined in 1919 and left in 1928 and seems to have spent his whole career in the same division; P.

They're also on the Attestation Ledger (http://www.flickr.com/photos/naphotorecords/3620711322/in/set-72157619572282811/).

Does that look right to you?

BarnabyP
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: acmead on Saturday 14 November 09 22:32 GMT (UK)
Hi Barnaby, I can't seem to find my fathers police record, he served during ww2, stationed at Tower Bridge Police Station, do you think you can help,
Regards,
Tony.
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: BarnabyP on Sunday 15 November 09 23:29 GMT (UK)
Hello Tony.

Do you know if the officer served before and after the war? If he served during the war only then it's possible that he was in the Police War Reserve. I don't know if there are any records in existence for this. I have done a search on The National Archives website and there are some interesting results - but I don't know if/how many are of any use. I think that I also have a recollection that some people were mentioned in Police Orders for that period - I know that officers who transferred to the force proper were mentioned in them.

It might be worth getting in touch with the Metropolitan Police Historical Collection team - historicstore @ met.police.uk

Hope that's of some use, BarnabyP

Moderator comment: email address amended to prevent spam, please remove the spaces either side of the @ if you want to send an email
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: acmead on Tuesday 17 November 09 17:49 GMT (UK)
Thank you Barnabyb,  my father only served during the war,as a reserve,I have taken your advice
and emailed the site, am now waiting for a reply,
Best regards,
Tony. :)
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: beatrice834 on Sunday 22 November 09 11:33 GMT (UK)
Hi Barnaby, congratulations on all the work you have done, and for your help to researchers. I was directed to your site by another rootschat member.
I am interested in a James Bowen who enlisted with the Met on 25/9/1848 and was dismissed  on 12/7/1852.  His descendant found out this much at Kew from MEPO4/334, but wants to know if he can find out why he was dismissed.
Do you have access to these earlier records?  thanks.
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: BarnabyP on Sunday 22 November 09 16:47 GMT (UK)
Hello Beatrice834.

Thank you.

I'm not sure that records that detail this information are available for this period. You might try the police orders in MEPO 7. But the detail about police officers tends to start a little later than 1852. It's worth having a check if you're there. I'm just not sure that records exist.

Otherwise you can always give the team at MPS Historical Collection a go at the email address in my last post. They could have something.

Yours, BarnabyP
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: BarnabyP on Monday 14 December 09 15:42 GMT (UK)
I just wanted to post to let you all know that there is a page on Your Archives which lists the details that can be found on Metropolitan Police pension records up to around 1920 - Metropolitan Police pension record details (http://yourarchives.nationalarchives.gov.uk/index.php?title=Metropolitan_Police_pension_record_details).

Hope that this is of some use to anyone who is looking at these documents.

Yours, BarnabyP
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: Ceryswyn on Thursday 28 January 10 01:23 GMT (UK)
I just want to say a HUGE Thankyou to you for making this available to us, and another big thankyou to Rootschatters that have talked so much that I could find it just by searching the forums for police :D

I do have a quick question.

I had a look at the photo provided on flicker (by the way if I download this is it safe to add to public trees online or should I not share it?) and after my gg grand fathers name covering the next two columns it says R. P. in huge letters. These are in the columns designated for "No of certificates granted to constable if not dismissed" and "When certificates sent to Division"

The record is for Thomas H Scully,

P    71995    PC    Scully    Thomas H.    1893-03-14    1886-08-02    MEPO 4/340 [Pg 19]

Any light anyone could shed on that would be lovely.

Thanks again for the dedication it must have taken to provide this :)

Helen
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: BarnabyP on Thursday 28 January 10 18:58 GMT (UK)
Hello Helen. Glad to read that you are making good you of the resource.

The photos are released under the following licence: Attribution, Non-Commercial and No Derivative Works (http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-nd/2.0/deed.en_GB"), which is the same licence that the Metropolitan Police are using for their own photos on flickr. Under these terms you're safe to use them in a family tree on the interwebs.

I've had a quick search, because I remembered that R.P. stands for Resignation Permitted, on TNA's website and found this.

"The abbreviation RP stands for 'resignation permitted' <br />and is replaced in October 1920 by RR 'required to resign'."
[/color]

I'm not entirely sure what that means but I interpret it to mean that he was made to resign. It would be interesting to read what other people think.

Hope that helps, BarnabyP
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: Ceryswyn on Friday 29 January 10 14:30 GMT (UK)
That helps a lot actually. Thankyou.

There is a somewhat half remembered family story about an ancestor that jumped in front of a train. My Grandma had an inkling it was this fella. If he was indeed forced to resign for something it would add a plausible reason for taking his own life. I shall have a lot of fun trying to track down the origins of this family skeleton :)

Thanks to the information I could find in your records I now have a request for his service records in the works so thankyou so much once again.


Helen
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: BarnabyP on Sunday 21 February 10 16:21 GMT (UK)
Hello all. I just wanted to update you and let you know that I have made available the Alphabetical Registers of Joiners on Flickr they cover the following references, years, warrant numbers:


There aren't any indexes or transcriptions (yet) on Your Archives, but hopefully they will still be of some use to the more strong willed researcher. Indexes are something that I will work on for a later date.

Yours, BarnabyP
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: BarnabyP on Monday 29 March 10 23:19 BST (UK)
Just wanted to update everyone that I have just finished transcribing the latter books in the Registers of Leavers. It can be found on Scribd here (http://www.scribd.com/people/documents/15999394-barnp). The document has been ordered by the surname and first name to make it easier for people to search by that mechanism.

They are provided as is, as they require yet further checking to search out errors that have no doubt been made during the process of typing. Hopefully this will help people still further in finding their Metropolitan Police ancestors.

Yours, BarnabyP
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: KittoFitz on Friday 02 April 10 00:54 BST (UK)
Thank you for all the hard work.  Really interesting.

In the course of my family tree research I am trying to trace information about a John Wood who I believe was born in Hampstead.  I can find no trace of his birth details and he does not appear on the 1841 census but I see from the 1851 census that his occupation is down as ‘formerly a Police Constable out of employ’. 

Thanks to your records I can see that a John Wood joined the force on 16 July 1835 - Warrant number 10,693.  Is there any more information available which would would verify that this is the same person I am looking for?  E.g. date of birth, date of leaving the force and reason.

Any advice would be welcome.

Thank you.
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: BarnabyP on Friday 02 April 10 14:16 BST (UK)
Hello Freddy.

I have found the same John Wood that you have a warrant number for in the Alphabetical Register of Joiners on page 414 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/naphotorecords/3810610715/in/set-72157622000274150/). This record contains the people that recommended the officer and when the officer left the force. I don't know how useful these two pieces of information are but they may be worth a look.

It has him as resigning on 10th Feb, 1840. And the addresses for the referees appear to be Mr. Folkes of 9 Suffolk Street and Mr. Bradshaw of Camden Town.

There aren't many records that would otherwise detail conclusive things like the year and place of birth that I know of - others feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

As most of my work has been to photograph and make available a transcript of these documents I can only help that much. You could try the Metropolitan Police. There is a form on the Friends of the Metropolitan Police Historical Collection (FoMPHC (http://www.fomphc.org.uk/)) website. They have some sources that aren't in the National Archives and have access to a greater database of information so might be worth a try.

Yours, BarnabyP
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: KittoFitz on Friday 02 April 10 15:44 BST (UK)
Many many thanks for that.  I cannot quite make out the reason for his leaving.  It looks more like 'Dismissed' than 'Resigned' - what does your expert eye think?  The wonders of the web never cease to amaze me - thank you for your input.

Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: BarnabyP on Friday 02 April 10 20:09 BST (UK)
I don't know that they are expert but I'd have to agree, as it looks like dismissed to me too.

BarnabyP
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: cockney rebel on Tuesday 06 April 10 12:16 BST (UK)
Hi there,

What incredible work you have done!

I finally had time over the Easter weekend to wade through your MEPO 4/334 file and found my great grandfather.He joined the Met in 1857 and was promoted to Inspector in 1872.
I have no idea when he left,but sometime between 1881 and 1891 ,and I haven't been able to find him in the list of leavers (although I have a lot of problems manoeuvering in the files and might have missed him)

As he obviously had  a long service record and was an Inspector,I was wondering if you know of any other records where I could check for him?
His name was Thomas Rowland.

Many thanks for any pointers ...and keep up the good work!
Rebel
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: BarnabyP on Tuesday 06 April 10 14:18 BST (UK)
Hello cockney rebel.

Glad that they've been of use. I've had a check myself through the Registers of Leavers that I have typed-up and couldn't see his name there.

I've found a Thomas Rowland in the indexed Pension Records on the National Archives - here (http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/displaycataloguedetails.asp?CATID=-5151562&CATLN=7&Highlight=,ROWLAND&FullDetails=True). It seems to fit the time-frame that you have for him leaving.

I would imagine that with him being an Inspector there's a good chance that he would have left with a pension. Otherwise it might require a long search in the Police Orders (MEPO 7).

Hope that's helpful, BarnabyP
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: cockney rebel on Tuesday 06 April 10 15:43 BST (UK)
Hi BarnabyP,

oh yes,that sounds very promising!
have requested an estimate for a copy and will take it from there.
Many thanks for your help

Rebel
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: BarnabyP on Tuesday 06 April 10 16:06 BST (UK)
Hello cockney rebel.

I have had a look at a copy I have of the document referenced previously. I just wanted to let you know some of the details to help you match it to your ancestor. They are:


There are more details besides, as listed on the Your Archives page (http://yourarchives.nationalarchives.gov.uk/index.php?title=Metropolitan_Police_pension_record_details).

Yours, BarnabyP
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: caribou on Tuesday 06 April 10 17:49 BST (UK)
Hi BarnabyP,

What a great asset!!

The only info I had that 2 relatives were Met Policemen was from the 1891 and 1901 censuses.

With the help of your index of the later books, I've found them both in the Register of Leavers and in the Attestation registers. Now to find out if they had pensions.

Their warrant numbers were  69298  Thomas Whisker and 70729 Walter Russel Mason.

Many thanks for the work you've done.

Bob.
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: BarnabyP on Tuesday 06 April 10 18:18 BST (UK)
Hello Caribou.

I have just had a look at some of the copies of pension records that I have and I can tell you that Thomas Whisker does; it's no. 19,077 in MEPO 21/39 and Walter Mason does too; it's no. 19,100 in MEPO 21/39.

Hope that gets you to the information quicker, BarnabyP
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: caribou on Tuesday 06 April 10 21:06 BST (UK)
Hi BarnabyP,

You just get better and better!!!

Thanks for the info.

Bob.
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: jeaster1 on Friday 23 April 10 20:54 BST (UK)
Just want to say that you have saved me so much time!
Thanks  ;D
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: ian-nz on Friday 23 April 10 22:48 BST (UK)
Hi

Can someone help me please. I seem to be going round in circles and getting now where.

I am looking for information on John Jacob Driesen born in 1831 in Middlesex. On the 1851 census his occupation is policeman. On the 1861 census occupation is police sergeant and when his son married in 1873 his father's occupation was police inspector. John Driesen died in 1867 aged only 36 years. Was his death work related. He was married to Mary and they were living in Stepney in 1861.

Any help would be much appreciated.

Pauline
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: BarnabyP on Saturday 24 April 10 13:05 BST (UK)
Hello Pauline.

There aren't any records for between 1857 and 1869 in the selection that I have photographed and made available on flickr. If he was in the force before this time then there could be information about his joining. I've had a quick look in book MEPO 4/334 of the Alphabetical Registers of Joiners (http://www.flickr.com/photos/naphotorecords/collections/72157621875699755/) but I was unable to find him in there under D. I've had a look in the pension information that I have here as well and couldn't see anything on there - as I would have suspected that he might have had a pension.

Is it possible that he was working in the City of London Police?

BarnabyP
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: ian-nz on Saturday 24 April 10 22:05 BST (UK)
Hi BarnabyP

Thank you so much for checking on that information for me. It looks like he was not with that branch of the police force so I will now follow up on the possibility that he may have been with the City of London Police.

Many many thanks for your help

Pauline
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: Ronthea on Thursday 29 April 10 22:32 BST (UK)
I would love some help. My husband's grandfather was William J H Turner born in Derbyshire 1869. He moved to Clerkenwell, Exmouth Street, now Exmouth Market, Finsbury, Clerkenwell and joined the Metropolitan Police. He was on the 1901 census as a Sergnt with the Metropolitan Police and then according to my father in law, (dec) he was killed whilst on duty in Dec 1913. I cannot find any record and would love to know if this was true or if he just died. If anyone can give me any information I will be very grateful. Thanks  :-*
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: BarnabyP on Thursday 29 April 10 23:25 BST (UK)
Hello Ronthea

I have had a quick look and there appears to be a William J. H. Turner in the force. He left in September of 1913 as seen on page 122  (http://www.flickr.com/photos/naphotorecords/3298084485/in/set-72157614272584902/) of MEPO 4/344 in the Register of Leavers. I have had a look in the pension information that I have and this officer appears to have been pensioned. The information on the pension matches what you provided. His pension number is 20,689 and it can be found in MEPO 21/42 at TNA. It has his place of birth as Eckington, Derby and D.O.B. as 25 May, 1868. His address on leaving was 33 Frankfurt Road, Hern Hill, SE.

Unfortunately he joined in a period for which there are no registers or indexes. But the two above documents should more than compensate hopefully.

I can't see that he was killed in the performance of his duties though.

Hope that this helps, BarnabyP
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: Ronthea on Friday 30 April 10 09:58 BST (UK)
Thank you so much for all the information :). As we have been living in Australia we are trying to find out as much as possible about my husbands relations, of which he knows very little! We are living here now and so have time to do the research into his family. This is a great addition to his family tree. Many thanks again.
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: richarde1979 on Friday 30 April 10 12:36 BST (UK)
BarnapyP

Many thanks for this, I have found my great grandfather in your records. I found him last year as a P.C at Camberwell Station on the 1911 Census, which was suprise as I always though he'd spent all his early life in the army. I now know from your record he was in the met 1910-1913 (He was in the Army Militia 1906-1909, Regular Army 1914-1920..so it was evidently a fairly brief sojourn in the Police..perhaps it didn't suit him as much as the army!)

Anyway I do have another mystery, perhaps you can help with...perhaps not, but thought no harm in asking.

My late great grandmother, a Londoner, had a photo amongst her posessions of a Policeman. I have recently shown it to an 84 year old aunt, the last of the generaiton still with us, and she thinks it shows her uncle Alfred Ernest Woodhouse who was a career policeman.

I think I have found him in your lists:

Division E SPS 84123 Alfred Ernest Woodhouse  06-13-1898 to 16-06-1924

Forgive my ignorance, but I am unsure what the rank SPS means?

Would it match the man in the photograph we have?:

(http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd160/Riche1979/003.jpg)

Also if yourself or anyone has any idea roughly when the photo might date from would be much appreciated.

Many thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: BarnabyP on Friday 30 April 10 15:23 BST (UK)
Hello richarde1979.

The rank SPS stands for Station Police Sergeant (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Station_Sergeant), which is described on Wikipedia. I don't know what the officer's rank in the photo is. I'm sure the four chevrons on the arm would give a clue. As to dating; it might be worth looking to see whether he has a pension at The National Archives in MEPO 21. It seems likely that he would have one. It would give dates for any promotions or demotions that he might have had. Otherwise I would suggest getting in touch with the Metropolitan Police. They have a team over there who look after the historical collection (http://www.met.police.uk/history/metropolitan_historical_collection.html) and might be able to tell you more about the photo. They have an email address to deal with queries.

Yours, BarnabyP
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: richarde1979 on Friday 30 April 10 16:53 BST (UK)
Thanks for your input and advice Barnaby, much appreciated.
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: JanetM43 on Friday 30 April 10 18:12 BST (UK)
Hi i searched for met police records and this came up so hopefully you can help me out.
I recently found out that my uncle a Mr William Bryant commited suicide in march of 1905 after obtaining his death certificate i found he had been a police officer at either brixton or sutton.
Any information would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance.
Janet.
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: BarnabyP on Saturday 01 May 10 11:44 BST (UK)
Hello Janet.

I've had a quick look through the records that I have and found the following:
 - Registers of Leavers (http://www.flickr.com/photos/naphotorecords/3291025739/in/set-72157614044964797/)
 - Attestation Ledgers (http://www.flickr.com/photos/naphotorecords/3578584165/in/set-72157619559621571/)
 - Alphabetical Registers of Joiners (http://www.flickr.com/photos/naphotorecords/3855277609/in/set-72157621998637189/)

There should be an entry in the Police Orders (MEPO 7 at TNA) about his death.

Hope that these references are of some use.

Yours, BarnabyP

Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: richarde1979 on Saturday 01 May 10 14:28 BST (UK)
Just to update Barnabyp, I have found out the 4 chevrons does indicate a Station Police Sergeant. It was scrapped in 1915 for 3 chevrons with  crown on top, so I suspect the photo does show my great uncle Alfred Woodhouse, and must date to before this. Apparantly he was very much involved in the Dr Crippen case in 1910, and kept alot of the original papers, including the original arrests warrents, as 'souvenirs' when he retired. These went to the Scotland Yard Black Museum when his daughter died in 1997, so I may contact them and see if the photo is of any interest, etc.

Thanks again for your help, and the great work you have done for us all getting these records online.
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: Temic on Friday 21 May 10 15:11 BST (UK)
Fantastic link - just found my gt-grandmother's cousin!
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: Romilly on Friday 18 June 10 15:13 BST (UK)

I'm trying to find any info on my husband's GreatGrandfather, Frederick Lavington, born Christian Malford, Wiltshire in 1863.

On the 1891 and 1901 Censuses, he's a Metropolitan Police Constable, living in Fitzallen Street, Lambeth.

On the 1881 Census he's a Baker, still living in Christian Malford, Wilts.

Family rumour has it that at one stage he was based at The House of Lords/or Commons.

I don't know his Police Number...is there any way that I can find anything about his Police Service?

Cheers, Romilly.
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: Ceeoh on Friday 18 June 10 18:40 BST (UK)
Forgive my ignorance but do not understand how I would look for a particular person.

My father-in-law's brother Clarence Frederick Wood (born 1892) was in the London Metropolitan Police, not sure about prior to W.W.1. but certainly afterwards.  How would I look for his record of leaving?

Many thanks

Ceeoh
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: Romilly on Friday 18 June 10 18:53 BST (UK)
Forgive my ignorance but do not understand how I would look for a particular person.
My father-in-law's brother Clarence Frederick Wood (born 1892) was in the London Metropolitan Police, not sure about prior to W.W.1. but certainly afterwards.  How would I look for his record of leaving?
Many thanks
Ceeoh

You are not alone Ceeoh,

I too have no idea! ::) ::)

I've been round the houses on the National Archives Site, & have tried following some of the links on here...but haven't got anywhere:-(

Romilly.
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: BarnabyP on Friday 18 June 10 19:26 BST (UK)
Hello Romilly and Ceeoh,

This thread's probably getting a bit long, so I'll recap the various sources of information available.

Guides
- TNA have a guide to sources useful for family history researchers; guide 104 (http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/RdLeaflet.asp?sLeafletID=104&j=1)
- I've also put some of the same sources with a bit more information on TNA's Your Archives website; Metropolitan Police Records of Service (http://yourarchives.nationalarchives.gov.uk/index.php?title=Metropolitan_Police_Records_of_Service)

Sources
- I have uploaded transcripts for some of the Registers of Leavers onto the Your Archives - links from above link. All of the Registers of Leavers can be found on Scribd (http://www.scribd.com/people/documents/15999394-barnp).
- There are more of the documents detailed on the Your Archive's page on flickr, which can be found by there collections (http://www.flickr.com/photos/naphotorecords/collections/).

Using sources
So far on the Your Archives website there are only the first nine of 13 books of Registers of Leavers. But the information about how to use them can be found here (http://yourarchives.nationalarchives.gov.uk/index.php?title=Category:Metropolitan_Police_Registers_Of_Leavers). Otherwise I would recommend using the Scribd link above as it has all the same information that you can use to find the appropriate photos on flickr, should you choose to.

Hope this helps, BarnabyP.

If this doesn't help just let me know.
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: BarnabyP on Friday 18 June 10 19:44 BST (UK)
Hello Romilly,

I've had a look at the Registers of Leavers. I have found a Frederick Lavington in MEPO 4/343 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/naphotorecords/3291083293/) - warrant number 67466. I've also found him joining in the Alphabetical Registers of Joiners (http://www.flickr.com/photos/naphotorecords/3833273318/in/set-72157621939214785/) and the Attestation Ledgers (http://www.flickr.com/photos/naphotorecords/3579311868/in/set-72157618928162259/).

Frederick also has a pension record in MEPO 21/38 pension number 18,657, which you can view at TNA.

Yours, BarnabyP
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: Romilly on Friday 18 June 10 19:57 BST (UK)
Hello Romilly,
I've had a look at the Registers of Leavers. I have found a Frederick Lavington in MEPO 4/343 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/naphotorecords/3291083293/) - warrant number 67466. I've also found him joining in the Alphabetical Registers of Joiners (http://www.flickr.com/photos/naphotorecords/3833273318/in/set-72157621939214785/) and the Attestation Ledgers (http://www.flickr.com/photos/naphotorecords/3579311868/in/set-72157618928162259/).
Frederick also has a pension record in MEPO 21/38 pension number 18,657, which you can view at TNA.
Yours, BarnabyP

Gosh!! Thank you so much BarnabyP! I'm thrilled that you've managed to find so much. I will get right on to it now... :D

Best Wishes, Romilly :)
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: BarnabyP on Friday 18 June 10 20:07 BST (UK)
Hello Ceeoh,

I hope that the above advice was helpful. I have had a look in the records that I have copies of and couldn't find a Clarence Frederick Wood in the Registers of Leavers. I also had a look in the Alphabetical Registers of Joiners and couldn't find a record of him in those either - as I thought there was a chance that he could have retired after the ROLs end. Are you sure that he served in the Metropolitan Police? It's just a thought but is it possible that he served in the City of London police?

Yours, BarnabyP
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: Romilly on Friday 18 June 10 20:08 BST (UK)
Hi Again BarnabyP,

I've downloaded & saved everything available, - Many Thanks!

I guess that I need to pay a visit to Kew to see the Pension Records? (And presumably they will hold the details as to whether or not he did actually spend time at the House of Lords/Commons:-)

Thank you so much for your help, - it is very much appreciated.

Cheers, Romilly :)
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: Ceeoh on Friday 18 June 10 22:43 BST (UK)
Hello Barnaby
Many thanks for looking for Clarence for me.  I will check my records again to make sure of his service - it's a while since I looked for him so will have to dig around in the Wood file.

Thank you again

Ceeoh
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: 2mm on Saturday 19 June 10 21:31 BST (UK)
Hello Barnaby, I have  Thomas Rochester  W.No. 56932 Div C    (Is this St.Jame's?)  Joined   the Met
9 June 1873.   I have this information from mepo 4/352/111.   I would like to know more details of his short stay with the Met, and if any reason was given for leaving   13 Aug 1875, this date on a record  when he joined  

 Essex force  on   1 Sept 1875 .  approx 2/3 weeks later.

Any help you can offer would be very much appreciated

2mm



















Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: BarnabyP on Monday 21 June 10 09:29 BST (UK)
Hello 2mm,

I don't know if division C is St. James, but C would almost definitely put it within the more central parts of London, as they seem to radiate out alphabetically from the centre. Unfortunately there aren't many records for that period that would cover Thomas's record of leaving. The Police Orders (MEPO 21) list all of the officers that left the police force and group them into broad areas, so you can find out perhaps whether he was dismissed or resigned. If he was dismissed it might state why but if he resigned (or was forced to) then it merely states this.

Sorry not much useful there.

Yours, BarnabyP
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: 2mm on Monday 21 June 10 18:55 BST (UK)
Hello Barnaby, Many thanks for reply I will try the ref you gave, it may give me  some info
why he left the Met and went to Essex.
I appreciate your help
2mm :)
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: Romilly on Monday 21 June 10 19:22 BST (UK)

Just wanted to say...

This is a wonderfull resource on the Metropolitan Police Records that you've put together here, Barnaby.

Many, many thanks for all of your efforts, - it has enabled me to compile more info than I could ever have envisaged possibly finding on Fred Lavington.

Best Wishes, Romilly :)
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: Paul Caswell on Monday 21 June 10 22:15 BST (UK)
I second that.  :)

Paul
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: BarnabyP on Tuesday 22 June 10 22:00 BST (UK)
You are all more than welcome. It gets better the more people use it. I am currently in the process of checking the latter books to make them more accurate.

Hopefully I'll be able to produce more resources of use. I don't know whether to post here lest it raise expectation. But I am working on putting together a map (based perhaps on Google Maps) with pins that show where historical police stations and other police buildings were placed to help put some geography to the research results. Hopefully this will be based in some way shape or form on old police maps. I'll see what comes of it and will of course keep you up-to-date.

Yours, BarnabyP

Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: Romilly on Wednesday 23 June 10 19:14 BST (UK)
You are all more than welcome. It gets better the more people use it. I am currently in the process of checking the latter books to make them more accurate.
Hopefully I'll be able to produce more resources of use. I don't know whether to post here lest it raise expectation. But I am working on putting together a map (based perhaps on Google Maps) with pins that show where historical police stations and other police buildings were placed to help put some geography to the research results. Hopefully this will be based in some way shape or form on old police maps. I'll see what comes of it and will of course keep you up-to-date.
Yours, BarnabyP

That sounds like a really useful additional resource Barnaby.

I shall look forward to seeing your map when available.

Best Wishes, Romilly.
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: Ceeoh on Sunday 11 July 10 17:27 BST (UK)
Hi Barnaby

Re Clarence Frederick Wood and the Metropolitan Police Service.

Many thanks for the time you spent looking for him.  I now have his daughter's birth certificate which gives his occupation in 1928 as Railway Policeman. :P

Whether he went directly from the Grenadier Guards to the Railway Police I do not know.  It was generally family lore that he was in the Metropolitan Police, but as you could see no trace of his entry or discharge this would seem unlikely.

Thanks for your help.

Ceeoh
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: Romilly on Tuesday 13 July 10 16:31 BST (UK)
Hi Ceeoh,

I don't know if this is of any help, - but I found this on the 'History of the Metropolitan Police' Site:

'Records for the railway police of the various railway companies do not appear to be amongst the railway staff records held at the Public Record Office, but information about the numbers and organisation of railway police circa 1900 can be found in RAIL 527/1036. The occasional references to 'Police Department' in the railway staff records relate to signalmen, etc'.

Romilly.
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: markyb74 on Tuesday 13 July 10 16:51 BST (UK)
Hi BarnabyP,

Thank you very much for the records. I have been able to find one of my ancestors (Frederick Bowles - Number 67737) in the Register of Joiners, the Attestation Ledgers and the Register of Leavers. Is there any way of finding out if he has a pension record?

Regards,

Mark
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: BarnabyP on Tuesday 13 July 10 21:23 BST (UK)
Hello markyb74,

I can confirm that Frederick Bowles was given a pension. It is number 15097 in book MEPO 21/31. I've written a little guide about what can be found on the pension documents on TNA's Your Archives at Metropolitan Police pension record details (http://yourarchives.nationalarchives.gov.uk/index.php?title=Metropolitan_Police_pension_record_details).

Hope that helps, BarnabyP
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: Ceeoh on Tuesday 13 July 10 21:57 BST (UK)
Many thanks Romilly, will investigate further.

Ceeoh
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: aspin on Tuesday 13 July 10 22:27 BST (UK)
I've been having a look here for my grt grt Uncle Inspector John Stark who helped catch Jack the Ripper
But cannot find anything
He also had a brother in the police force Andrew Stark
Any help please
Elizabeth
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: markyb74 on Wednesday 14 July 10 08:29 BST (UK)
Hi BarnabyP,

Thanks very much for confirming he had a pension and tracking down the reference.

Regards,

Mark
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: BarnabyP on Thursday 15 July 10 21:07 BST (UK)
Hello aspin,

I too have reached a block on finding either of the Starks. Do you happen to have any information on when they might have started or left? If they were involved with the Jack the Ripper case that would place them in the Force just before the turn of the 19th/20th centuries. Is it also possible that they were in another force?

Yours, Barnaby
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: justmej on Thursday 15 July 10 22:48 BST (UK)
Hello aspin,

I too have reached a block on finding either of the Starks. Do you happen to have any information on when they might have started or left? If they were involved with the Jack the Ripper case that would place them in the Force just before the turn of the 19th/20th centuries. Is it also possible that they were in another force?

Yours, Barnaby

Hi Barnaby

aspin has directed me here regarding the Stark brothers.  They were both with the City of London Police rather than the Metropolitan, as John became the Assistant Chief Commissioner of the City of London Police in 1925.  He began his career at Bishopgate Station with the City Police in 1885 and as well as being involved with the Jack the Ripper hunt, he was also in charge of the City Police at the time of the Siege of Sidney Street in 1911.

Regards
justmej
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: crimea on Monday 26 July 10 14:57 BST (UK)
Hi, have just joined and hope someone will be able to help with my research.
My main area of interest is men who served with the Royal Irish Fusiliers in the Great War, one of the men I'm researching went on to serve in the Metropolitan Police.

His details are John Rushmoore (Rushmore on one of his medals) and the reference to the Met comes from a note on his medal index card with a 1921 enquiry from the Met about what medals he was entitled to (1914 trio)

There is also an article in the Regimental Gazette, when as part of a Met Police Entertaiment Troupe he entertained the London Branch of the Old comrades association in 1925.

Thanks for looking

Andy
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: Romilly on Monday 26 July 10 17:42 BST (UK)
I've been having a look here for my grt grt Uncle Inspector John Stark who helped catch Jack the Ripper
But cannot find anything
He also had a brother in the police force Andrew Stark
Any help please
Elizabeth

There's quite a lot on the hunt for 'Jack the Ripper' on the Metropolitan Police Site, - but I don't know if it mentions your relatives. See:

http://www.met.police.uk/history/ripper.htm

It might be worth doing a search for them on that Site.

Romilly.
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: aspin on Monday 26 July 10 22:41 BST (UK)
Thank You Romilly

Elizabeth
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: Valda on Wednesday 28 July 10 09:34 BST (UK)
Hi

For City of London police staffing records see the London Metropolitan information guide

http://217.154.230.218/NR/rdonlyres/B251C471-8429-44CC-879C-C6E4353BBEE8/0/43RECORDSOFCITYOFLONDONPOLICEOFFICERS.pdf


Comprehensive transport police staff records are not held at The National Archives.

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/rdleaflet.asp?sLeafletURL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Enationalarchives%2Egov%2Euk%2Fcatalogue%2Fleaflets%2Fri2204%2Ehtm&lBack=-1 
and
http://yourarchives.nationalarchives.gov.uk/index.php?title=Railway_Police

For the whereabouts of staffing records you need to contact the British Transport police 
http://www.btp.police.uk/about_us/history.aspx


This topic is really only about Metropolitan police officers. Please place other queries about other police forces onto the main boards.


Regards

Valda
co-moderator London and Middlesex
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: aspin on Wednesday 28 July 10 09:55 BST (UK)
Thank You Valda

for these sites

Elizabeth
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: crimea on Tuesday 03 August 10 11:32 BST (UK)
Hi, have just joined and hope someone will be able to help with my research.
My main area of interest is men who served with the Royal Irish Fusiliers in the Great War, one of the men I'm researching went on to serve in the Metropolitan Police.

His details are John Rushmoore (Rushmore on one of his medals) and the reference to the Met comes from a note on his medal index card with a 1921 enquiry from the Met about what medals he was entitled to (1914 trio)

There is also an article in the Regimental Gazette, when as part of a Met Police Entertaiment Troupe he entertained the London Branch of the Old comrades association in 1925.

Thanks for looking

Andy

Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: BarnabyP on Thursday 12 August 10 19:25 BST (UK)
Hello crimea,

I have a John Rushmore as leaving in 1942-10-06 with warrant number 107275. His date of joining was 1919-10-27.

Is this the person that you are looking for?

BarnabyP
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: crimea on Friday 13 August 10 10:31 BST (UK)
Barnaby,

Thanks for your reply, It could well be him. I don't have any other reference for his police service apart from the request for info from the met on his medals index card. Is it possible to obtain service papers for his time with the met?

Kind Regards

Andy
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: BarnabyP on Friday 13 August 10 18:26 BST (UK)
Hello Crimea,

I'm going to provide you with links to the photos so that you can see all the information that's available on them. Some of the information might tally with details that you already know i.e. the division.

- Registers of Leavers (http://www.flickr.com/photos/naphotorecords/3388726022/)
- Attestation Ledger (http://www.flickr.com/photos/naphotorecords/3620718456/in/set-72157619572282811/)

I believe that the Metropolitan Police might have his service record - try emailing the Historical Collection (http://www.met.police.uk/history/metropolitan_historical_collection.html); at the bottom of the page. There is also a good chance that he had a police pension and this would also detail information about his career and some personal details - most likely MEPO 21/87.

Yours, BarnabyP
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: Valda on Saturday 14 August 10 08:27 BST (UK)
Hi

My understanding is incomplete divisional records for A, B, E, F, G, H, K, L, M, N, R and Y divisions are held by the Metropolitan Police Historical Collection for officers who were serving on or after approximately 1932 at Friends of the Metropolitan Police: http://www.fomphc.org.uk/viewpage.php?page_id=1


Regards

Valda
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: BarnabyP on Monday 16 August 10 19:57 BST (UK)
Hello,

I have been working on mapping the police stations from a 1914 police map and would like to share the results (http://maps.google.co.uk/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&msa=0&msid=111855065529753961758.00048d380a693b7df55cd&ll=51.567254,-0.11673&spn=0.330781,1.054001&z=11).

It's not wholly accurate, I'm going to put there now. I haven't got around to overlaying the districts, but will information somewhere and link to it from the map, so that people can use it that way and then eventually I'll work out how to add it to the map itself.

Hope that this is of use for people. Consider it very much a work in progress.

Yours, BarnabyP
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: suzannahrob on Monday 06 September 10 15:13 BST (UK)
I'm hoping someone can help me out.

I've found my great grandfather on the register of leavers: William Slater - MEPO 4/343 pg203. 
However written by his name is RP and I don't know what this means.  I have a feeling it's not good!

Regards
Sue
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: BarnabyP on Monday 06 September 10 18:09 BST (UK)
Hello Sue

Worry ye not, RP means Resignation Permitted. It's just the Met agreeing that the officer can leave.

Yours, BarnabyP
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: 2mm on Monday 06 September 10 19:02 BST (UK)
Hello Barnaby, Can you tell me if records for june1873 - aug1875 are held any where. Thomas Rochester ,
W N 56932 Div. C ?  when i contacted before, you did say there were not many records for this period,
Would this include any records for DIV.  C.,  ?
Many thanks  2mm
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: BarnabyP on Monday 06 September 10 20:39 BST (UK)
Hello 2mm,

If I recall I was having trouble finding Thomas in the records. Alas the record you have found may be one of the few. As far as I am aware there aren't any registers of leavers for this time period. Though there should be an entry in the MEPO 21 Police Orders, which should also broadly note under what circumstances he left under - though this is limited to saying resignation, pension or dismissal, or perhaps even transfer in Thomas's case. It might be worth getting in touch with the Metropolitan Police as they have access to some records that aren't in the National Archives which might contain more information.

If anyone else has more info please add.

I know this isn't much help sorry, BarnabyP
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: suzannahrob on Monday 06 September 10 20:55 BST (UK)
Barnaby

Unfortunately it was bad news. I emailed historic store at met and and it appears that my great grandfather was up to a bit of embezzling! I had been told that he'd left under suspicious circumstances.  would there be any way of finding out more info on what he was up to or on him ie height, colouring etc.

Regards
Sue
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: 2mm on Monday 06 September 10 21:12 BST (UK)
Thank you, Barnaby, I will try The Met, I have tried a couple of other avenues, with no luck, so far.
I appreciate your help.
2mm  :) :)
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: fallingonabruise on Monday 13 September 10 19:54 BST (UK)
I am trying to find out about my gggrandfathers very short police career,
He was John Ballard Lloyd and according to a booklet about people against the new railway,

''where he states he resided when, he went in the police force, which he did on the 16th April, where he continued only until the 26th May,(bring a period of only 40 days), when he quitted without notice''

this was in 1836 I think, is there any chance there would be any records for this ?
thanks
A
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: BarnabyP on Tuesday 14 September 10 18:14 BST (UK)
Hello fallingonabruise,

The only record that I have a photograph of is the Alphabetical Registers of Joiners (http://www.flickr.com/photos/naphotorecords/3809750932/in/set-72157622000274150) - 2nd from bottom. He should appear in the HO 65/26 but I don't appear to have a photo of this page. His leaving may be in the Police Orders also at The National Archives in MEPO 7.

Hope this is of some help, BarnabyP
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: fallingonabruise on Tuesday 14 September 10 19:33 BST (UK)
oh wow thanks  ;D there he is ! pity he didn't stay in the police, he might have avoided going to prison !
how do i see the leaving orders? is it a down load type thing ?, i can never work out how to do stuff on the NA site  ???
thanks again, I'm very grateful for you taking the time to find this for me  ;D
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: BarnabyP on Wednesday 15 September 10 20:20 BST (UK)
Hello fallingonabruise,

Both of the records that I haven't linked to can only (to my knowledge) be accessed at the National Archives. Since you have the dates it should be relatively straight forward.

BarnabyP
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: fallingonabruise on Wednesday 15 September 10 20:38 BST (UK)
ok thanks, I'll see if I can get them,
cheers
A  ;D
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: hiraeth on Tuesday 05 October 10 06:18 BST (UK)
Hi BarnabyP

Many thanks for making all this information available.

I'm investigating William Thomas BLUNDELL warrant no. 76093 Joined Aug 18, 1890 Left Apr 14, 1897.  Thanks to your site I have found the register pics on flickr as well :)

The family lore is that he was hit on the head trying to make an arrest during a robbery and was sent off to an institution for some time.  By 1901 he was a tramcar driver but he went missing at some point around 1905/1906 and supposedly was never heard from again.  I haven't been able to find a death for him so perhaps he changed his name or emigrated :-\   

I live in Canada so can't check the pension records personally.  Is there somewhere I can write to try to obtain further information such as how long  or if any pension was paid etc.?

Heather
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: BarnabyP on Tuesday 12 October 10 22:27 BST (UK)
Hello hiraeth,

Sorry for not having got back sooner. I have been looking into bits and bobs that I have access to. I can't see that William was given a pension as he didn't serve in the Force for long enough. I was at TNA today and had a look in the Police Orders but couldn't find out anything more than to confirm that he left when he did.

I've just had a quick look and remembered the police Service Records which may state more about his service record; including his leaving - which could be under MEPO 4/370. If I remember next time, I'll have a look for you, but if you know someone else who's going they might be able to order it and look for his warrant to see if it includes further information surrounding his leaving, which might help. Or TNA have an online ordering service - if you want to give it a try.

Hope that gives a little help, BarnabyP
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: hiraeth on Tuesday 12 October 10 22:35 BST (UK)
Hi BarnabyP

Thank you VERY much for looking.   I've copied your message to another descendant who lives in the UK so fingers crossed we can uncover more about the mystery ;)

all the best
Heather
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: Jaz on Wednesday 13 October 10 22:17 BST (UK)
I cannot seem to find my grt uncle Franics John Shepherd on  the listings ,what am i doing wrong, help please,
Jaz
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: BarnabyP on Thursday 14 October 10 19:27 BST (UK)
Hello Jaz,

Do you have any more information about when he would have served in the Force.

Yours, BarnabyP
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: Jaz on Thursday 14 October 10 23:03 BST (UK)
Hi BarnabyP,

he was there in 1901 age 29yrs in the dist. of Westminster,
Jaz
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: Jaz on Friday 15 October 10 09:44 BST (UK)
Hi BarnabyP,

just found out he was not working as a Metropolitan policeman by 1911 as he had moved from the area,
Jaz
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: kellogs on Friday 15 October 10 10:16 BST (UK)
Hi BarnabyP

I was wondering if you had any info on my Great Great Grand Uncle Frederick Joseph Dyer who served in the Metropolitan Police force from about 1902 to when i don,t know but he was still in it in 1911.
I believe he was in J Division.

Many Thanks :)
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: dunvr on Sunday 17 October 10 20:22 BST (UK)
Hi Jaz

Do you have any information on Sampson Henry Perry, Superintendent of Police around 1831 & 1833? Finsbury area

Thanks
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: BarnabyP on Sunday 31 October 10 01:19 BST (UK)
Hello Jaz,

The nearest I can get is a Francis Joseph Shepherd. He was serving in the Force until 1901. His warrant no. was 79719. He attested in 1894 in division N, which would have been around Stepney, but left from division W, which would be around Westminster. This mostly fits with the information that you have provided other than his middle name.

Links:
 - Registers Of Leavers MEPO 341 page 218 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/naphotorecords/3243863153/)
 - Attestation Ledgers MEPO 4/355 page 119 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/naphotorecords/3636625270/in/set-72157619796037717/)
 - Alphabetical Registers of Joiners MEPO 4/336 page 302 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/naphotorecords/3849267718/in/set-72157621988118371/)

Hope that helps, BarnabyP

P.S. Sorry for the delay, works been keeping me a bit busy at the moment.
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: BarnabyP on Sunday 31 October 10 01:46 BST (UK)
Hello kellogs,

I have had a quick look through and have found a Frederick Joseph Dyer that matches the info you gave. He had warrant no. 89046 and served from 1902 to 1927 - which means there's a good chance that there is also a pension record for him.

Links:
 - Registers Of Leavers MEPO 4/348 page 46 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/naphotorecords/3387688107/)
 - Attestation Ledgers MEPO 4/356 page 85 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/naphotorecords/3578582385/in/set-72157619559621571/)
 - Pension records MEPO 21/59/MEPO 21/60 -  you can get to these at TNA, no photos, sorry

Yours, BarnabyP
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: kellogs on Sunday 31 October 10 07:51 GMT (UK)
Hi BarnabyP
 
Many Thanks for your reply and your time in finding out that info for me, it has helped immensely. ;D
Kellogs
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: Jaz on Sunday 31 October 10 11:01 GMT (UK)
Hi BarnabyP,

Thank you so much for finding Joseph for me, it is very much appreciated, thank you,
Jaz
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: BFBSM on Monday 01 November 10 09:19 GMT (UK)
Kellogs, What luck a Google search can bring. I am also researching Frederick Joseph Dyer, and have been looking for information on his time in the Metropolitan Police Force. I have been trying to send you a personal message, but haven't figured it yet. Please contact me.
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: Valda on Saturday 06 November 10 10:46 GMT (UK)
Hi BFBSM

Welcome to Rootschat

You can only send and receive personal messages after you have posted 3 times.

Information on personal messaging

http://www.rootschat.com/help/pms.php

As this is a resource topic about the Metropolitan police it might be better to post again on another board starting a new topic on any research you are interested in as I'm sure Rootschatters would be keen to help. You can then send a pm to Kellogs about Frederick Joseph Dyer as soon as you have made three posts.

Regards

Valda
co-moderator London and Middlesex
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: robrose on Tuesday 16 November 10 17:44 GMT (UK)
Thank you for your excellent database work

I have just found a great uncle I've been looking for for years

Thank you again

Rob
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: ronnie7366 on Wednesday 15 December 10 10:36 GMT (UK)
Hi,
This is for Barnabyp and i dont know how to message him as i am rubbish with computers!!
can someone help me get a message to him please??

Ronnie7366
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: BarnabyP on Wednesday 15 December 10 19:02 GMT (UK)
Hello ronnie7366

I've sent you a message.

Yours, BarnabyP
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: ronnie7366 on Wednesday 15 December 10 19:31 GMT (UK)
Hi barnabyp
Firstly thanks for getting back to me so soon and secondly thanks for the brilliant work you have done in down loading all the archives etc truly amazing.
My grandfather got dementia and was put in a home by his new wife who then sold his house and cleared all bank accounts etc leaving him to die.
My father finally caught up with her and she had destroyed all photos and memories. Through your hard work I have managed to find his warrant number 129510 and join date of 07 oct 1946.
I would like to know when left and service details but have drawn blank.
I kind of hoped you could give me some advice or point in the right direction?
Very kind regards
Ronnie
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: Valda on Wednesday 15 December 10 19:33 GMT (UK)
Hi ronnie7366

Welcome to Rootschat

You have to post on Rootschat three times before you can send and receive personal messages


Information on the Rootschat personal messaging system

http://www.rootschat.com/help/pms.php

You just have acknowledge my post ronnie and you have your three messages and Barnabyp can send you a pm.


Regards

Valda
co-London and Middlesex moderator
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: ronnie7366 on Wednesday 15 December 10 19:52 GMT (UK)
Aha thankyou very much
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: BarnabyP on Friday 17 December 10 18:19 GMT (UK)
Hello ronnie7366,

I believe that the  Metropolitan Police Historical Collection (http://www.met.police.uk/history/metropolitan_historical_collection.html) have some documents for officers in the 20th Century. So my suggestion would be to give them a try. Details are at the bottom of the linked page. If you can find out when he left you may be able to look for a pension record at the The National Archives - which would give you more information. There could also be more information in the police orders at the National Archives - but you would need to know what and when to look for.

Hope that helps, BarnabyP
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: Valda on Saturday 18 December 10 09:06 GMT (UK)
Hi

This is the website  of the Friends of the Metropolitan Police Historical Collection

http://www.fomphc.org.uk/viewpage.php?page_id=1

'The Friends are a group of people sharing an historical interest in London's police and criminal justice heritage. We directly support the activities of the Metropolitan Police Historical Collection* (MPHC).
The Friends assist MPHC staff in cataloguing and conserving the collection.'



The website has an online form to

'Make a police historical records enquiry about your family member?'

from the Metropolitan Police Hisotrical Collection


Regards

Valda
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: Jaz on Tuesday 01 February 11 12:18 GMT (UK)
Hi Barnaby,

do you haveanything on James Hales West b. 1862 Broughton Gifford, he was sub divisional inspector of  the metropolitan police in 1901census, thak you,
Jaz
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: BarnabyP on Friday 11 March 11 15:42 GMT (UK)
Hello Jaz,

Sorry for the delay in getting back to you. I have had a look through the documents that I have photographed. I have found a James Hales West who left the Metropolitan Police Force in 1919 with warrant no. 68302. You can find his leaving on MEPO 4/346 Page 27 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/naphotorecords/3388404426/). He is on attestation MEPO 4/354 page 37 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/naphotorecords/3578509465/in/set-72157618928162259/). His joining is also recorded in MEPO 4/335 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/naphotorecords/3832933785/in/set-72157621939214785/). I feel quite sure that he would also have received a pension, which can be viewed at The National Archives.

Hope that helps, BarnabyP
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: Jaz on Friday 11 March 11 15:46 GMT (UK)
Hi Baranabyp,

Is there any way i can access these, thank you,
Jaz
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: BarnabyP on Friday 11 March 11 16:00 GMT (UK)
Hello Jaz,

Somehow managed to post before I had finished typing my reply. I have changed it with links.

BarnabyP
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: Jaz on Friday 11 March 11 17:02 GMT (UK)
Hi Barnabyp,

Thank you so much your help in finding these is so very much appreciated, thank you,
Jaz
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: sandiep on Friday 02 September 11 16:38 BST (UK)
I wonder if you can help me........I am trying to find when Samuel John Raphael PC478 no 118936 left the force he joined 14/10/1929.................it was always said in family that something happeded that he had to leave!!

hopefully  sandie
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: BarnabyP on Saturday 17 September 11 13:08 BST (UK)
Hello Sandiep,

I think your best bet might be The Met Collection (http://www.met.police.uk/history/metropolitan_historical_collection.html). I believe they have some records from after the 1940s - which is the point to which the Registers of Leavers go - that they can search for you. If you click on the link it will take you to their webpage, where you can get their phone number, email address and physical address. If they can find a date when your officer left the force there might also be a pension record at the National Archives.

They also have a nice little museum over there - where you could talk directly to the staff about the history of the Met.

Hope that helps.

Regards, BarnabyP
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: sandiep on Saturday 17 September 11 17:37 BST (UK)
thank you

I tried to find him on your transcriptions but got a bit confused trying to use them

I take it from your reply you dont think I would find them on these?

I will gicve the museum a try  thanks  sandie
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: jmp on Sunday 09 October 11 19:20 BST (UK)
Hi BarnabyP

I am not sure if my friends rellie has "fallen between the stools" as it were. William Evans ( sometimes called William Thomas Evans) born 1832 Kidderminster, Worcestershire was a police constable in London ( Shoreditch area I think) in the Censuses between 1861 and 1881, he is listed as retired in the 1891 Census. I believe the family came to the London area between 1851 and 61. I have found a reference on the TNA site to his retirement between 1879 and 1881 under MEPO 21/15/5416. But I am afraid I am not having any luck on the images you have transcribed. Would he be there by any chance?

Any help even if it is a "no" would be useful  ;)

Many thanks
Jackie :D
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: kesannah on Monday 10 October 11 17:15 BST (UK)
Congratulations on all your hard work.

I have a problem. I have tried to find 2 family members.

One I have a warrant No for 188k but no name .

 The other I have name Joseph Watson b 1902 West Ham but do not have any other information other than he was a policeman in the Met.

Is it possible you could help please?
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: BarnabyP on Saturday 15 October 11 15:46 BST (UK)
Hello jmp,

I have looked at the pension record that you have found a reference to - number 5416. I can tell you that it details a William Evans (which you know), who was born in Kidderminster, Worcester on the 18 June 1832. He joined in 1858. Hopefully that matches the details of the person that you are looking for. The original document can be viewed at TNA or you can order a copy via their website.

Unfortunately there is a gap in the various joining and leaving records held at The National Archives from around 1857 to 1891, so this might be your best bet.

Hope that's better than a no.

Regards, BarnabyP
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: BarnabyP on Saturday 15 October 11 16:07 BST (UK)
Hello kesannah,

I'm not sure that with the records that I have I can be very helpful. The divisional number of 188K is the number that officers were issued when working within a division, in this case division K. Unfortunately these numbers weren't unique to a person, so when officer 188 moved to another division the next officer would inherit this number and so on.

Also I have had a look for a Joseph Watson and can't find him in the Registers of Leavers  - which only go as far as 1947. I've had a quick look on the Alphabetical Registers of Joiners and couldn't see a Joseph Watson in there either - it covered 1911 to 1933. Is it possible that he served in the City of London Police?

The best thing I can recommend is to contact The Met Collection (http://www.met.police.uk/history/metropolitan_historical_collection.html) (email on the linked page) and see if they can do a look-up in their records - as they have some which cover officers who joined later in the 1900s and have more records indexed. If you know when the officer with 188K served that should help narrow it down for them.

Sorry I can't be of more help :-[, BarnabyP
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: jmp on Saturday 15 October 11 20:11 BST (UK)
Thank you BarnabyP, that is very kind of you to look re William Evans. Yes it is the same chap and I'm glad that I wasnt missing anything obvious in your wonderful indexes ;D ;D ;D.  I didnt know the joining date but it fits in weith the move to London ;)Thought that he had probably fallen into the "black hole" of missing records, just my luck as per usual, but will chase up the National Archives information on the pension

Many thanks for all you have done
Jackie :D
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: kesannah on Sunday 16 October 11 13:41 BST (UK)
Hello Barnaby, Thanks for looking for both of  my policemen.

It is possible that Joseph Watson was in the City of London police,so I shall try
The Met Collection.  I don't have the name of 188 so he could be difficult to find.

I appreciate your help.
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: GuybrushThreepwood on Friday 21 October 11 23:40 BST (UK)
Hi,
These photographs are awesome! I was looking to find a Benjamin Farmer who was a Saddler in Brecon until 1868ish and who suddenly turns up on the 1871 Census in Hackney as a Police Man, and his sons Birth Certificate the same year as a Police Constable. I believe i have found him in your photos Attesting on the 13th Dec 1869 with the Warrant Number of 52272 assigned to Division N.
Sadly his wife died not long after their son was born, and by 1873 Benjamin was back in Wales as a saddler, only to die in 1879 of Bronchitis.
So a couple of questions - What is Division N? How can i find out more about Benjamin's time at the Met, and when he left?
Benjamin's older brother Thomas was also a Police Constable in the 1861 census for Crickhowell in Brecon, despite his trade also being that of a Saddler - would he have started at the Met? Is there a Thomas Farmer in the records?
I also have to ask if you happen to know of a John Farmer in the records round about the time of Benjamin's death in 1879 - i have no proof that John was in the Police (again he was a saddler by trade) but it seems that he followed his brother Benjamin to London at some point to live on Temple Street, though the information given by John on Benjamin's death certificate doesn't give his occupation at the time.
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: Paul Caswell on Saturday 22 October 11 00:01 BST (UK)
Hi Flybrunch :D,

N division was Islington.

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/hitch/gendocs/police.html

Paul

Sorry - I had to find an excuse to post. What a wonderful user name. :D
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: DozyDora on Saturday 22 October 11 13:07 BST (UK)
I'd like to look for gt grandad Charles Colgan warrant 58785 but I can't seem to get to the links. What am I doing wrong ?  >:(

Hi,  I am searching the Metropolitan Police records at the moment, so I can tell you what to do.

1. After you have signed into TNA, click on "Records" 3rd from the left at the top of the page
2. Click on "Documents online" on the right-hand side of the page - 3rd option under Quick Links.
3. On the left-hand side where it says "Quick Search", type in the reference you want (e.g. MEPO 4/352) and press Go.
4. You'll get a clock loading and then a tabulation with details of what you want to download.  At the bottom of this on the right-hand side is a button "Add to Shopping".  Click on this and then the "Checkout" button on the next page.
5. You then have to enter your email address twice in the spaces provided.  Do this and click on "Proceed with your Download".
6. On the next page click on "Download my documents now" and then the "Download" button on the right-hand side.  It takes quite a while to download as most of them are several pages.  You will also get an email with a link to download.
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: Jane Medcalf on Tuesday 01 November 11 11:10 GMT (UK)
Hi Barnaby,

My grandfather was in Hertfordshire Constabulary before and after WW1. How would I go about finding out his service records?

I look forward to hearing from you.

Jane Medcalf
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: DozyDora on Tuesday 01 November 11 13:14 GMT (UK)
Barnaby,

What a fantastic job you've done in conjunction with TNA.  I was labouriously downloading page by page from TNA, not realising that you'd done it all for us.  Thank you very much.

I have not found our James Edward Morgan, though I only searched for him beginning of 1919 and the whole of 1918.  He started working for the Shanghai Municipal Council ("SMC") on 1st July 1919 but my partner's Dad said he was either in the Police or Foreign Office before that date.  Having searched the Police archives and ruled that source out, I don't know where to go next.

Any suggestions would be greatly appeciated.  For instance, can you access Foreign Office staff records online or view them at TNA?

Of course he could have already been in China before starting work for the SMC.

Dora
Title: Looking for policeman - James Elliott
Post by: howe02 on Sunday 06 November 11 05:12 GMT (UK)
Are you able to point me in the direction of records to search - James Elliott born about 1835 where ???  Policeman - constable

Info I have - he married Emily Fleeson in 1861 KIllucan, Ireland
They went to London (Edmonton - Middlesex) sometime between 1861-1863
Then went to Australia sometime between 1865-1868

Any help would be appreciated
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: jennyhawk on Wednesday 16 November 11 22:48 GMT (UK)
Hi

Need help with finding john Robert marchant on the 1881 census he is living at 42 chapelfield Lancashire saids he is a policeman he was born in 1856 in surrey.
His daughter Ellen kezia marchant married Charles adamthwaite 14 sep 1918 on the marriage certificate saids john was a constable but was deceased by then

Don't know where to look find out more info on john how long he was policeman or a constable any help be great

Thank you

Jenny

Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: PaulineJ on Wednesday 16 November 11 23:19 GMT (UK)
John Robert Marchant wouldn't show up on the Met police records.

What town was he in in 1881?
What other census(es) does he appear on?
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: jennyhawk on Wednesday 16 November 11 23:24 GMT (UK)
In 1901 census he is ex police constable living in mile end old town stepney.

In the 1881 saids Lancashire

Jen
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: BarnabyP on Thursday 29 December 11 19:16 GMT (UK)
Hello GuybrushThreepwood,

Sorry for the delay in getting back to you.

I've had a quick look through a number of the records that I have access to. I can't find a great deal on them in the main staff records held at the National Archives. There is a gap in the main joining records from Apr. 1857 and Feb. 1869 and the registers of leavers doesn't start until 1889. I think the best place to check for information on the Farmers would be the Police Orders, which are held under MEPO 7. Or you could try the Metropolitan Police Historical Collection, to see if they have any information.

With regard to John Farmer. I have found a John Farmer, who joined the police force in 1880 with warrant number 64304 and is shown as dying in 1902. Could this be your chap?

Sorry I can't be of more help.

Yours, BarnabyP
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: BarnabyP on Thursday 29 December 11 23:10 GMT (UK)
Hello Jane Medcalf,

Sorry for the delay in getting back to you.

From advice I have read elsewhere, your best bet may be to try the Hertfordshire Archives and Local Studies or the Hertfordshire Constabulary.

Hope that helps, BarnabyP
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: BarnabyP on Thursday 29 December 11 23:30 GMT (UK)
Hello DozyDora,

Sorry for not getting back to you sooner. I don't know what to suggest really. I don't know anything about the documentation for the Foreign Office. Sorry.

Yours, BarnabyP
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: BarnabyP on Thursday 29 December 11 23:46 GMT (UK)
Hello howe02,

Sorry I haven't answered until now. Unfortunately there is a gap in the main joining records from Apr. 1857 and Feb. 1869 and the Registers of Leavers didn't start until 1889. The only thing that I can think of is to look in MEPO 7, which are the Police Orders or try the Metropolitan Police Historical Collection.

Hope that helps, BarnabyP 

Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: BarnabyP on Friday 30 December 11 00:02 GMT (UK)
Hello jennyhawk,

Again, sorry I haven't got back sooner. I have found a John Robert Marchant with warrant no. 60080. He started in the police force in 1876-03-06 and left 1901-03-11. He has a pension record (MEPO 21/29 no. 14371) which states that he was born on 21 Aug 1855 in Kingston, Surrey. He also appears in Registers of Leavers (http://www.flickr.com/photos/naphotorecords/3244686284/in/set-72157613200718169) and Attestation Ledger (http://www.flickr.com/photos/naphotorecords/3570246838/in/set-72157618780040851/).

Hope that's the person you're looking for, BarnabyP
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: parslow-timms on Sunday 22 January 12 00:19 GMT (UK)
Hi, could you help me please. I would like to know about my 2 x Great Grandfather (Joseph) Henry Parslow.
Born 12th September 1832 Kingston Surrey Died 25th August 1892 Wandsworth.
I have no idea when he joined the Met. but I have found 2 references (Old Bailey on Line) Dec 1870 Henry Parslow (Policeman N) & 29th January 1872 Henry Parslow (Detective Officer W) and this is the only information I have I would be very grateful for any info about his service.

Thanking you in advance Caroline
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: BarnabyP on Sunday 22 January 12 17:02 GMT (UK)
Hello Caroline,

I have had a quick look in the records that I have. I can find a Joseph Henry Parslow who joined the Force on January 5th, 1857 and who resigned July 9th, 1881. He left with a pension record MEPO 21/15 pension reference 5440. It lists him as being born on 12 September 1833. I have the Alphabetical Register Of Joiner page for him - Page 396 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/naphotorecords/3817804075/in/set-72157622023974386) and click on actions -> view all sizes.

Hopefully that helps with the start of your research.

Yours, BarnabyP
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: parslow-timms on Sunday 22 January 12 20:52 GMT (UK)
Hi BarnabyP
Thank you so much for the information & link, it was more than I dared hope for.
I am fairly new too Genealogy & I am still trying to find my way around websites & am grateful for the help given by people like yourself, I could never have found the info by myself.
Could I be cheeky & ask if you could recommend a website for pictures of policemen & uniforms of the time so I can get some idea of what Henry would have dressed like etc:-
Once again I am indebted to you. Many Thanks Caroline :D ( You are a Star)
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: fatfish on Tuesday 21 February 12 12:05 GMT (UK)
Firstly, a massive thank you to BarnabyP on this resource.  Thanks to you I have found my Great Grandfather Thomas Gurling Rayson's police record on MEPO 4/340 Pg 144.

It does show that he was "dismissed" when he left.  Is they somewhere I can find the reason why?

Any advice or help would be appreciated.
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: booksatskipton on Wednesday 23 May 12 15:17 BST (UK)
My great great grandfather  James Evans was (according to some Police records I saw many years ago) born in Kennington in 1806 to James and Mary Evans. He was an inspector and superintendent of Police in Lambeth - last mention I have of him  working is at the birth of his daughter (Louisa Sarah)  in 1850 and in the 1851 census at that time they were in Lambeth.

By 1861 he was in Tenby  - superannuated superintendent of police ... after that I loose track of him.

Would there be any records of when he died.. ?

am struggling as I don't know if they stayed in Wales or when he died - can't find him in the 1871 census and the name is very common when searching wills etc.

Retired from Met Police on 30/3/1857 on grounds of ill health  (aged 50)

pension was £166-0-0 a year 

5'8" dk brown hair / fresh complexion / grey eyes

b Kennington 23-11-1806
Mother Mary Father James

Entered Police service 25-8-1831
Constable 5 years
Seargeant 5 years
Inspector 9 years
Superintendent 7 years

 
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: talktonite on Tuesday 26 June 12 16:36 BST (UK)
What a great resource. Thanks for taking the time to post.

I must admit that I'm having trouble navigating round the documents. Can anyone help me fing Charles Rossiter? Warrant number 7802, joined 3rd September 1832?

He was my GGG GF and the above infor was kindly supplied by The Met Collection on a Summary of Police Service (thats all that was provided though!).

Thanks

Marc
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: kit54 on Sunday 05 August 12 17:08 BST (UK)
Hi Barnaby, Thank you! - I 've just been told about this fantastic site and have already found some of my relatives. Please can you (or anyone else) tell me if there is any more info on the following officers (I am particularly interested to see if there is any record eg pension that would tell me where they were born)?

Gregory Cole Dudley Warrant No 966 Enlisted 21/9/1829 and pensioned 12/10/1856
Richard Dudley Warrant No 1005 Enlisted 21/9/1829 and pensioned 11/12/1845
William Dudley Warrant No 112 and 5251 (he was dimissed again on 15/1/1831 and I can't find any further info on him)

I suspect that they were brothers; if they have the same place of birth, that would confirm this.

I'd be very grateful for any help/advice,

Thanks,

Chris
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: erika on Wednesday 22 August 12 16:07 BST (UK)
Hi Barnaby.

Wow what a wonderful resource, thank you for all the time and effort you have put in to make it possible for us to use.

However I am at a complete loss as I have no idea when my man joined, but have just got his death cert today, so have some clues.
Frederick Charles Cooper died in 1914 of TB age 33 and occupation given was formerly a Police Constable ( Metropolitan)
He had married in 1909,age 28, where he states on his marriage cert he is a Police Constable.
From these clues I wonder if you could point me in the right direction as to where I should start my search.

Many thanks in anticipation
Cheers
Erika  :)
IGNORE THIS POST PLEASE, I'VE FOUND HIM ;D ;D
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: lesleyta on Thursday 23 August 12 19:38 BST (UK)
Hi

I don't want to impose, but I wondered if you could help me at all.

I have an ancestor George Batten, born 1835.  On the 1871 Census, his occupation is listed as Metropolitan Policeman, but he also has 'no arms' listed in the last column (this is confirmed as 'has lost both arms' on the 1881 census.

Unfortunately) I can't find him on the 1861 census, closest I've found is a reference to a George Batten in the army (3rd Foot Guards (Scots Fusilier) Private 497 based in London ... but have no real reason to think this is my George.

anyway - is there anyway of finding more details of his police career?

My ultimate aim is to find out how he lost both his arm, as he was an errand boy on the 1851 census, so presuming he was fully limbed then lol

Thanks!
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: Firehorse on Thursday 04 October 12 02:14 BST (UK)
Thank you BarnabyP for this!  I have been trying to find my Grandfather, John Cyril Horace CRISP b. 1894 in the documents, but I am a bit handicapped in doing so as I don't know when he joined (most likely after WWI) and when he left (most likely he retired around 1945/50.  I don't have a warrant number either unfortunately so that doesn't help.

I hope to find some in the transcriptions soon! 

Thank you so much!!

Kind regards,

Jilly  ;D 
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: jennyhawk on Monday 08 October 12 22:30 BST (UK)
Hi
Hi I'm hoping that you can help me find John marchant  he was born 21 August 1856 in Surrey and in the 1911 census he's down as a police pensioner then in 1881 census he's living in Lambeth Surrey as a border and his occupation set is a policeman and we would like any more information All how to go about finding the information I need
Thank you Jenny Hawkins
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: Valda on Tuesday 09 October 12 01:19 BST (UK)
Hi Jenny


Barnaby has already answered your post on this topic when you requested the same information -16th November 2011. See his answer posted to you on 30th Decmber 2011.


Regards

Valda
Co-moderator London and Middlesex
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: Valda on Tuesday 09 October 12 01:25 BST (UK)
Hi

Barnaby has not been on Rootschat since July 2012.

See also this topic for information on Metropolitan police officers' records and links to information.


http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,552766.0.html


Regards

Valda
Co-moderator London and Middlesex
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: jennyhawk on Tuesday 09 October 12 09:55 BST (UK)
Hi

Thank you I never saw this as not been around as been in hospital for some time

Jenny
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: Phosphater on Tuesday 23 July 13 12:29 BST (UK)
I am looking for information on a FRANK BRADFORD, there is a picture of him wearing a police uniform and the number is 738.N  Does any one know what the N stands for.
Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: Romilly on Tuesday 23 July 13 13:51 BST (UK)
I am looking for information on a FRANK BRADFORD, there is a picture of him wearing a police uniform and the number is 738.N  Does any one know what the N stands for.
Thanks in advance.

'N' division of the Metroploitan Police was Islington, I think.

If you read through this thread Phosphater, you will find many Links showing you how to trace Police Records. I recently obtained my OH's G/Grandfather's Police Service Record, and wouldn't have known how to do it without Barnaby's invaluable links.

Good Luck,
Romilly.
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: iluleah on Tuesday 23 July 13 14:14 BST (UK)
Quote
S    74678    PC    Tooby    William    1894-09-24    1889-07-29    MEPO 4/340 [Pg 98]

is all I can get to, I click the link and it goes back to the same page, click on page 98 and it goes back to the same page, so how do you get to images of records........ I would love to know more as William died in July 1894, only 30yrs old and clearly still employed as a Met Policeman having previously served for 8yrs in the Royal Artillery and awarded an Egyptian War Medal "with clasp for Tel-el-Kabir"
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: Romilly on Tuesday 23 July 13 15:22 BST (UK)
Hi iluleah,

Pension Records for Metropolitan Police Offers are available to view at The National Archives at Kew in MEPO 21/38. Or you can order copies on-line at:
www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/‎

I've just ordered a copy of those relating to ancestor Frederick Lavington, who served in 'A' Division from 1883 - 1903. The cost is £5.60; which is certainly cheaper than the train fare to Kew for me... (Also very interesting because it gives a personal description, - which shows he was 6' 6 and 3/4 inches tall !

Romilly.

Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: iluleah on Tuesday 23 July 13 15:47 BST (UK)
Thanks Romilly........ presumerably as he died while in service, his wife would have been given a pension ???
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: Romilly on Tuesday 23 July 13 16:41 BST (UK)
Hi Again,

Have you ascertained the dates of his Service?

Pension would depend on the length of Service. You need to find his Pension Number, which I did by following Barnaby's Links. (You have to look through several of them). You can then order pension details, as I have. For info, I will try and post the first page here, - I think there are five pages in total.

HTH, Romilly.
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: iluleah on Tuesday 23 July 13 16:56 BST (UK)
Quote
Have you ascertained the dates of his Service?
S    74678    PC    Tooby    William    1894-09-24    1889-07-29    MEPO 4/340 [Pg 98]
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: Romilly on Tuesday 23 July 13 18:40 BST (UK)
Quote
Have you ascertained the dates of his Service?
S    74678    PC    Tooby    William    1894-09-24    1889-07-29    MEPO 4/340 [Pg 98]

You can order his records from the National Archives Site then.

Romilly.
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: Paul Caswell on Wednesday 24 July 13 00:04 BST (UK)
I've found it very difficult to find my way around TNA - perhaps this link would be useful for future researchers:

MEPO 21 (http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/SearchUI/s/res/7?_q=MEPO 21)

Paul
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: howe02 on Friday 26 July 13 02:52 BST (UK)
I have been away for a long time and just getting back into research. Was trying to find James Elliott (Eliot) who was a police constable. I did not get the opportunity to communicate with Barnaby who seemed to be a real whiz at the police records. An old message refers to MEPO 7 but I am not sure what this refers to.   James Elliott was married in Ireland 1861 (not sure if he was born in UK or Ireland) and then went to UK sometime between 1861 - 1863 and then came to Australia 1867 and continued to be a policeman.

I am a novice at this research and have found difficulties looking for police records in either UK or Ireland, any assistance would be appreciated as I am not sure where to start or how. Thanks Alison
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: Paul Caswell on Saturday 27 July 13 20:52 BST (UK)
Hi howe02,

Your first port of call should be all of the links on the very first page of this thread. These link to all of the amazing things Barnaby has done for us.

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,386714.msg2585582.html#msg2585582

Paul
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: howe02 on Sunday 28 July 13 08:24 BST (UK)
Paul - thanks for the link ............ Alison
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: penny2 on Tuesday 08 October 13 23:22 BST (UK)
I am trying to contact "Pauline" as I also have John Jacob Driesen in my family line and would like to make contact.

Penny2
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: Georginab80 on Monday 26 May 14 00:20 BST (UK)
Penny, I am related to John Jacob as well, he was my GGG Grandfather.  His son Francis is my Great Great Grandfather, and his son Robert Driesen is my Great Grandfather. His son, John Driesen, was my Grandfather, and emigrated to Australia after WW2.  He had met my Nan in Australia when serving with the British army, and then returned to Aus once his service was finished and they were married. Their only child was my Mum, Louise Elizabeth Driesen.
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: penny2 on Monday 26 May 14 02:38 BST (UK)
Penny, I am related to John Jacob as well, he was my GGG Grandfather.  His son Francis is my Great Great Grandfather, and his son Robert Driesen is my Great Grandfather. His son, John Driesen, was my Grandfather, and emigrated to Australia after WW2.  He had met my Nan in Australia when serving with the British army, and then returned to Aus once his service was finished and they were married. Their only child was my Mum, Louise Elizabeth Driesen.

Hi Georgina,  Great to hear from you - I live in New Zealand.   My Link to your Robert Driesen is very remote. Legacy says he is my greatuncle's wife's 2nd cousin ( work that out !)  Francis Driesen (1797) was married to an Ellen Colophy. One of their daughters was Mary Ann, who married a William Walters.  One of their daughters was Lucinda Elinor Walters, who married my greatuncle Reginald Edward Mills.  If you are interested you can contact me at (*).   The only information I have on John Jacob's parents is he was born in Germany c 1797 and died c1868 - his wife was Elizabeth Keehner born c 1796 in Germany. She died 3 Nov 1850 and is buried 11 Nove1850 at Wycliffe congrecational church. 

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Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: Georginab80 on Monday 26 May 14 03:14 BST (UK)
Thanks so much! great to hear from you. Wow, what a connection, but still great to have. If I dig anything out about the German aspect of the family, i will pass it on.

Georgina
Title: Policeman 548 in J Division
Post by: JGDavies on Sunday 31 August 14 01:20 BST (UK)
Hi,
I come across a picture in family photographs of a policemen with badge 548J on collar and helmet.
I'm told this 548 in J Division, Metropolitan and have put is a request for information...

In the mean time any help identifying or pointers re the officer appreciated.
Jonathan
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: OGRAPS on Thursday 13 November 14 14:20 GMT (UK)
Hi, you may have moved on from this query by now (I've only just found your post on RootsChat from 2012) but I have a fair bit of information about "armless" George Batten, who was my wife's maternal gt gt grandfather. Happy to share it with you if you're still interested. :)

Ograps
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: iluleah on Thursday 13 November 14 15:37 GMT (UK)
Hi Ograps welcome to rootschat ;D

You are possibly best to PM the person who you are answering directly, however to be able to do that you need to post a couple more times, so even if you acknowledge this post and then post again your PM will then be open to use and all you do is click on their name and send them a PM ( personal message)
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: sueinnarara on Friday 20 March 15 23:49 GMT (UK)
Hello, I am looking for help on finding out about my great grandfather William Stroud who, on the 1891 census is listed as Metropolitan Detective Inspector.  He lived in London.  He passed away in 1892 before he was 40. I remember my father telling me (vaguely) that he died in the line of duty.  I've checked the Roll of Honour and Book of Remembrance and I can't find anything out about him or his police service. Am I looking in the wrong place.
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: iluleah on Saturday 21 March 15 12:41 GMT (UK)
Hi  sueinnarara welcome to rootschat ;D

This might help you http://content.met.police.uk/Site/mpshistoryinformation and http://www.policememorial.org.uk/

and I am sure that others will be along to help you
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online - William Dewhurst
Post by: janab on Wednesday 01 April 15 00:26 BST (UK)
Apologies, I am new to this forum...

I have Discharge Papers for my gg Grandfather which tell me; "William Henry Dewhurst joined “S” Division of the London Metropolitan Police Force; warrant # 13996; recommended by E. Glascock, 19 Duke St., Portland Place and Mr. J. Dewhurst, 21 Regent St., Kensington. He retired from service with the London Metropolitan Police Force, S Division, 5 December 1855 with an annual pension of £ 27."

Are there further records available???  ;) If so, I am confused as to how to access them online... help?! Thanks in advance...
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: JGDavies on Wednesday 01 April 15 08:53 BST (UK)
National Archives on Metropolitan Police are here:
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/hbrowse?id=C210748 (http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/hbrowse?id=C210748)
Admittedly I was looking for someone who joined later in 1926, but here I found an entry in a register when he signed up and was assigned to a division; another joining entry when he was assigned a warrant number with that division; and an entry line in a leaving register in 1927.

I also found in the electoral rolls that he lived at: The Police Section House, Ramsgate St, Hackney; and Police Section House, Mare Street, South Hackney

Hopefully there are similar entries you can find.

You could also try: The Metropolitan Police Heritage Centre, 2014. London: The Annexe, Empress State Building, Empress Approach, Lillie Road, West Brompton SW6 1TR.
Jon
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online - William Dewhurst
Post by: iluleah on Wednesday 01 April 15 13:33 BST (UK)
Apologies, I am new to this forum...

I have Discharge Papers for my gg Grandfather which tell me; "William Henry Dewhurst joined “S” Division of the London Metropolitan Police Force; warrant # 13996; recommended by E. Glascock, 19 Duke St., Portland Place and Mr. J. Dewhurst, 21 Regent St., Kensington. He retired from service with the London Metropolitan Police Force, S Division, 5 December 1855 with an annual pension of £ 27."

Are there further records available???  ;) If so, I am confused as to how to access them online... help?! Thanks in advance...

( it says) The Metropolitan Police archives date back to 1875, so you have something that is 20 yrs prior to those. I was looking for someone 50 yrs later and who died as a young man in service and couldn't find anything

http://content.met.police.uk/Article/Historical-Records/1400015486704/1400015486704
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: julie66 on Wednesday 16 December 15 15:03 GMT (UK)
Hello,
I have a John Dennis, b 1806, Torpoint Cornwall.  Parents Unknown.  In 1841 he was a police constables age 35 and lived 33 Stanhope street St. Clement Danes.  I do not know his number or where he was stationed. 1851 he was working as a baker and 1858 as a Commerce Clerk.  Again in 1851 he returned to the police and lived in 48 Picket Place, st Clement Danes, Middlesex.  1871, age 66 he was working as Usher, police court. 
He died Jan 1886 Somerset.
Could you help in any way please.  I don't know if the above info will help so apologies if a it vague.

Regards
Julie
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: johnP-bedford on Wednesday 26 April 17 20:22 BST (UK)
OK this is an old... & long topic....

I have a James Hawkins born 1878 Isleworth, Middlesex who was a police constable when he married Jessie Partridge in Hook, Surrey in 1907. In 1911 census they living in Kings Cross, London where the record says he was with the Metropoliton Police. In 1901 he was a PC living at Police Station, Tottenham Court Road.

Are there any police records that tell me more about him?

Cheers John
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: Romilly on Wednesday 26 April 17 21:42 BST (UK)
Hi John,

Metropolitan Police Pension Records are available on Ancestry now. Have you checked them?

Romilly.
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: johnP-bedford on Friday 28 April 17 09:06 BST (UK)
Thanks Romilly,  Yes I have searched there but this James Hawkins not featured, nor is he found when searching the MEPO records at The National Archives database.   
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: johnP-bedford on Thursday 04 May 17 12:00 BST (UK)
Seems James Hawkins died aged 41 in Hendon RD in Dec 1918
His burial on 8 Nov 1918 at Little Stanmore, Middx has his address at 6 Mead/s Road
His wife Jessie is there with him in 1918 & then at that address every year up to 1965 as per London Electoral Rolls. And again there as per 1939 Register where birth date is 24/12/1876   

 
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: squirrelinatree on Friday 16 March 18 13:53 GMT (UK)
I have had success finding records for my great grandfather and his brother who both served around 1900 but may have just found that my great great grandfather was serving about 1850. I have found what may be him on the joining record and found the warrant no, 27593 (joined 1850) but can't find any other records associated with that no. as I did with the later ones.  I think it is the police register I have found for my gt grandfather, which lists height, weight, birthplace and other interesting info but I can't see it available for as early as 1850. Am I being blind?!
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: aspin on Friday 16 March 18 14:12 GMT (UK)
You need to enter some names for some one to help you
Elizabeth
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: squirrelinatree on Friday 16 March 18 14:22 GMT (UK)
You need to enter some names for some one to help you
Elizabeth

I was hoping someone might just be able to tell me if records existed for 1850 here. :)

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/help-with-your-research/research-guides/officer-in-police-force/

I'm looking for George Harding Penfold.  I found a mention of him in a court record on Ancestry in July 1850 and found his joining record (May 1850)  but because on 1851 census he is living with his family in Droxford, farmer's son, and later was a farmer, I had no idea he had ever been a policeman so am trying to find out if it is the same man.
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: alan.h on Friday 15 February 19 21:14 GMT (UK)
I am trying to find out about EDWARD HINE who is listed in the 1851 census as being a police constable living in police barracks in North Street, Westminster (parish of St Martin in the Fields). His place of birth there is given as East Sheen, Surrey but he fits with someone of that exact name who was christened in Mortlake in 1827. He married (back in Mortlake) in 1852.... and then I cannot find him again.

Over thirty years later an Elizabeth Hine's marriage shows up in Dumbartonshire and the marriage record gives her father's name as Edward Hine, policeman, deceased. And then her place of birth is given as Westminster, England.

Rather intriguing! As this would have been in the early days of the Met I'd love to find out more about Edward - I cant find a police pension record, death record or anything except these two references to him being a policeman in Westminster. Any ideas on where to look would be helpful and appreciated.
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: SidSilverSurfer on Monday 11 May 20 19:57 BST (UK)
Hello Rootschatters.

I have been slowly working on a project to get transcribed indexes for books in the Registers of Leavers for the Metropolitan Police (London). As a by-product of this I have uploaded the photographs that I am using on to flickr.

There are transcribed indexes for some of the <a href="http://yourarchives.nationalarchives.gov.uk/index.php?title=Category:Metropolitan_Police_Registers_Of_Leavers">Registers of Leavers</a> on <a href="http://yourarchives.nationalarchives.gov.uk/">Your Archives</a>. There are also <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/naphotorecords/collections/72157613987467704/">photographs</a> for all but a few of the pages of these books on flickr too. I am going to continue to add the transcribed indexes as and when I complete them to the <a href="http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/">National Archives'</a> <a href="http://yourarchives.nationalarchives.gov.uk/">Your Archives</a> website.

Other records also include the <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/naphotorecords/collections/72157615952312310/">Numerical Registers</a>, which cover the very first officers who joined the force. There are also some of the <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/naphotorecords/collections/72157618696862035/">Attestation Ledgers</a>.

I hope that it's all helpful for other people researching their family history.
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: SidSilverSurfer on Monday 11 May 20 21:25 BST (UK)
Can anyone help me find my late husband's police constable record.   I have an official picture of him and his fellow Officers dated January 1958 after, I assume, his graduation as an officer.    His name was Percy Chater SMITH.   Unfortunately I do not have his police number and I wonder what range he might have been within for 1957 / 58.??

The only other thing he mentioned was that he spent time in Brighton at the time of their "bent copper" problems.
I have tried he National Archives but cannot get the hang of the records there.
Many thanks for any advice.
Title: Re: Metropolitan Police Records Online
Post by: VaVa on Thursday 21 October 21 13:13 BST (UK)
Hello Jimmijam
I am a great great granddaughter of Claude Behenna. My info is that he and his wife died and at least one of there children was sent to live with relatives in Scotland. The child is my great grandmother Amelia Behenna ms. Davidson
Best wishes VaVa