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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Pembrokeshire => Topic started by: Purpeller on Thursday 18 June 09 11:43 BST (UK)
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Hi all,
I'm Irish (in Ireland) and have newly discovered Welsh ancestors from the above two places in Pembrokeshire. I've gone through all the previous forum posts that mention them but can't spot a connection yet. I'm much more used to searching in Ireland so I'm looking for some general pointers please.
My direct ancestor is Margaret (or Maggie) Morgan, born approx 1867. Father's name was Lewis and he came from Loveston. Through her sister's marriage, I've traced the family to Tenby Out Liberty on the 1861/71/81 censuses, as well as finding her father on 1841.
The family is Lewis, wife Elizabeth, who seems to be from out Liberty area originally, children: Ann, Jane, William, Rebecca, Margaret. Eldest child is born 1849.
I've used freebmd and findmypast to narrow down possible births for Maggie:
Surname First name(s) Date District Vol Page
Morgan Margaret June 1867 Haverfordwest 11a 825
Morgan Margaret Phoebe Sept 1867 Haverfordwest 11a 762
But I haven't ordered yet because it's £7 a go and there's nothing to indicate which she one is her.
Similarly with the marriages for a Lewis Morgan, freebmd tells me both of these are to a woman called Elizabeth:
Dec 1845 Narbeth 26 996
Sept 1848 Narbeth 26 785
My inclination is to go for the later one because to be married 4 years before the first child was born seems unlikely then - of course there could have been infant deaths.
Query about registration districts: Haverfordwest and Narberth - are they both covering the same area or did boundaries change?
Any advice or suggestions greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Purpeller
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if you're using FreeBmd, on the results page, click on the registration district and it will give the parishes in that district.
So for Haverfordwest, you get
http://www.ukbmd.org.uk/genuki/reg/districts/haverfordwest.html
which doesn't include Tenby
More likely to be this birth reg
Margaret Morgan june qtr 1866 Pembroke vol 11a pg 763
http://www.ukbmd.org.uk/genuki/reg/districts/pembroke.html
as this district does cover Tenby
Given that in 1861 Rebecca's age is given as 14 months, this looks a definite
Rebecca Morgan march qtr 1860 pembroke vol 11a pg 707
Sometimes with common Welsh surnames, it's easier to go for a sibling where you can be sure. Get a birth cert first as this gives the mother's maiden name and then you can be more confident of which marriage to go for.
1851 census has Thomas aged 5, unless I'm looking at the wrong couple in St Issells, and Narberth covered St Issells
http://www.ukbmd.org.uk/genuki/reg/districts/narberth.html
Hope something here helps.
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Osprey,
Thanks for your help.
Where can the 1851 be viewed? I didn't know it was online.
Thomas is the name of my great-grandfather so it would fit with his mother having a brother of the same name.
I'll do a bit more digging and then order a cert. You're right about the sister's name being more uncommon. I've already got that woman's marriage cert to confirm the parentage of my own ancestor!
Purpeller
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full 1851 is on Ancestry, Findmypast has only parts. In case you don't have access
1851 Moysland, St Issells HO107/2475 folio 832 pg 26
Lewis Morgan head mar 28 laborer b. Loveston
Elizabeth wife 27
Thomas son 5
Ann dau 1
Mary Jones servant 15
all born St Issells except where stated
There is another Lewis Morgan on the 1851 in the area covered by Narberth registration district, married to an Eliza, with a 2 year old, so he may be the one who married sept qtr 1848.
:-\
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Thank you again for that. I don't have an ancestry sub at the moment.
It's surprising that they moved there and then back to Tenby. The details are similar except that Elizabeth lists Tenby Out Liberty as her birthplace.
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Purpeller
Moysland is/was a farm in St Issells parish but only about 100 yards or so over the parish boundary from Tenby out Liberty. It's not surprising to find a labouring family moving around: the parents moved whereever the work was.
Here are the details of the 1845 marriage in St Issells parish
Lewis Morgan, labourer residing at Hopshill (a farm 200 yards or so away from Moysland but still in St Issells), son of Isaac Morgan, labourer
marries
Elizabeth Griffiths, residing at Hopshill as well, daughter of Thomas Griffiths, labourer
Date: 8/11/1845, St Issells church (close to modern Saundersfoot)
There are no baptisms of any children for these parents in St Issells baptism registers, that in itself is not unusual as the non-conformist chapels were drawing people away from the local Anglican church in droves.
J
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Wow!
Thank you very much. I've seen this sort of help happen to other people on rootschat but it's never happened to me before!!
I presume you have access to those church registers.
I saw mention of an Isaac Morgan on another post - must go find it.
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No problem, Purpeller.
I have a limited extract of the Loveston parish registers. Isaac Morgan has a couple of kids baptised there around 1820 but not Lewis. I have a note against his name that Isaac Morgan, resident of Loveston, is in Haverfordwest gaol as a debtor in 1843. The source for this info is the London Gazette. This is online.
Loveston was only a very small parish, fewer than 100 people around this time so there should be a link here somewhere.
Of course, this all depends on him being the father of the Lewis Morgan you are looking for in the first place!
J
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I'm waiting on a birth cert of Lewis and Elizabeth's daughter, which will hopefully confirm her maiden name as Griffiths and then I can go ahead and order their marriage cert from 1845. The 1841 census does list an Isaac Morgan living in Loveston who would be old enough at 60 to be Lewis' father.
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I have had a quick look at the Dyfed pre-1813 marriage index.
This appears to be the marriage of Isaac:
Isaac Morgan marries Ann Brace at Loveston, 1799.
Anne is the name of the mother of the 2 baptisms around 1820 so this looks good. You can get a copy of this entry from the marriage register by applying to the Pembrokeshire Record Office at Haverfordwest.
J
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Holy cow!
The Isaac in Loveston is living with a woman called Nancy so she could be Ann. The others listed at the same address are:
Hester 30
John 31
Jane 13
George 6
This looks to me like a son, his wife and their children or less likely, 2 older children and 2 younger ones. Isaac and Nancy are 60 and 58 so I think that's probably too old to have a 6 year old.
Does John match any of the names in the baptismal register? If you had a chance, I would really appreciate the names and dates of those baptisms.
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Voila....
John Morgan bapt 7/3/1813 to Isaac and Anne Morgan, residence New Inn, Loveston, farmer
Sarah Morgan bapt 9/4/1815 to same, yeoman of New Inn
John could be the son. Maybe he is in Begelly parish in 1851 census as follows:
Tomlas Hill
John Morgan, aged 35, labourer, born Loveston, head
Sarah Morgan aged 30, Loveston, wife
Levy Morgan, 4, Loveston, son
Isaac Morgan, 3, Loveston son.
Tomlas Hill was next door to several active coalmines at the time so I assume he did some labouring there.
J
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Just to follow up. Rebecca's birth cert confirmed the expected parentage.
Where would I find the Dyfed pre-1813 marriage index to get a reference number please?
I can't believe how far I've been able to push this tree back! So much further than is possible for most Irish ancestors.
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there's no need for reference numbers pre civil registration. What you need is parish and date and you can get a copy of the parish entry from the record office in Haverfordwest
http://www.pembrokeshire.gov.uk/content.asp?id=15732&d1=0
But, you won't get names of fathers on the record, just witnesses who may or may not be family members.
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Osprey
Thanks for the link and the advice.
Purpeller
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Hi,
I, too have early relations in the same area and found a particular site of interest. I actually found some.
It might be worth a look, you never know.
It is basically a church site which has some parish records (not all) on-line.
I'm sorry I haven't learned how to link thing yet, so using something like google, look for MONKTON RECTORIAL BENEFICE.
Look for registers on the left of the screen,click, scroll down a little and ought to see a group of churches named in what looks like a grid. It's easy to navigate from here.
Sorry I can't be more helpful,
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Thanks for the head's up.
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You seem to be related to my MORGAN family. My gg grandfather was William MORGAN born 29 May 1857 at Moysland Farm, New Hedges, Pembrokeshire. His father was Lewis MORGAN born c 1822 Loveston and his mother was Elizabeth GRIFFITHS born c1824 Tenby Out Liberty. Lewis and Elizabeth married on the 8 November 1845 in St Issells Church, Saundersfoot, Pembrokeshire. I have two definite sisters for William Rebecca born 25 Jan 1860 at Turnpike Gate, Tenby Out Liberty and Marjorie (possibly Maggie) born 13 May 1866 in Rowston, Tenby Out Liberty. I recently had contact from a lady in Ireland who said both of the sisters married and went to live in Ireland. William married Mary Morris (aka Mary MAURICE) and they lived at Lodge Gate Cottage, Tenby Out Liberty. William died there on the 20 Feb 1927.
I hope this helps
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Hey!
It was actually me you were talking to in Ireland!
Thanks,
P.
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I wasn't sure it was you as I have lost my address list when I changed computer. I will be in Tenby in 2 weeks if you want me to check anything for you.