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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Flintshire => Topic started by: lizzielawton13 on Friday 19 June 09 09:13 BST (UK)
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Hello
I am trying to find the Cross family of Penley or Ellesmere, can anyone help?
I have census records to 1841 with the family being millers at Penley, and there seems to be several mills there owned by different Cross families. As far as I can tell there were two mills owned by two branches of the Cross family, Penley mill and then Cross Mill at Maelor South.
I am looking for George Cross born 1834, son of William Cross married to Anna, presumably at Maelor South. But have now hit a wall and cannot find anything else about them.
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Hi Lizzie :)
Welcome to Rootschat!
I've been trying to find George and the family that you mentioned on the 1841 Census in both Flintshire andShropshire but I don't see George. Parts of that area might be missing in the1841 so I checked on the 1851 but still can't see George.
You say that you have the family to 1841 - where were they then :-\
There is a family of Cross, with head of hsld a miller, in Bettisfield, Hanmer on the 1841 but not the family that you mentioned.
Gadget
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Hi Gadget
Ive just dug out my paper print offs of all my Cross lines, and I have it here. I remember doing this one as they didnt turn upon any searches so I opened up each census for the area and went through it page by page, I think they were listed as Corfs or something. Georges father william had definatly been a miller by the time George Married in 1872. IGI has them as george son of william son of william.
Anyway, I think this could be them. 1841 census ellesmere, district 6 , pge 2.
penley
william cross 64 ag lab
elizbeth 63
william 31 ag lab
thomas 28 ag lab
george 10
there is also on page 1
penley mill
francis cross 45 miller
sarah 35
Ann 19
etc etc... but no george listed.
theres is also a web site you may be interested in
www.cpat.org.uk/projects/longer/histland/maeolr/msindust.htm
which discusses the different mills in the area and talks about penley mill AND Cross mill.
Are you related to this line then,or is it just interest that has you searching?
George would be my g.g grandad.
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Not related to the Cross family but have ancestors in the area so have quite a few old records and thought I might be able to assist you.
I saw the William and Elizabeth, with George but you had said mother was Anna:
I am looking for George Cross born 1834, son of William Cross married to Anna, presumably at Maelor South. But have now hit a wall and cannot find anything else about them.
If the ones that you list are the correct family, then we can start looking. What are you trying to discover - a baptism for George, a marriage/baptisms of his parents - anything else?
Gadget
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Although they show in the Ellesmere RD, they are in Penley, Flintshire itself. Francis is the miller at Penley Mill. The other one that I saw was in a neighbouring village - Bettisfield, Hanmer, Flintshire
HO107/1408 Book 3 Folio 9 Page 11
Edward Cross, aged 57, was a down as a Miller
Gadget
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Hallo again
I think the only (near) absolutes I have is that on Georges marriage cert in1872 it says his father was a miller called William, and he was 38 years old. The census state he was born in either 1831 or 1834 depending on which one it is, and they say he was born in Overton/Penley or Ellesmere, depending on which one you read.
Do your records show a Cross Mill at Mealor South? Who was there? I cannot find where that is in the census' so if you could check thatd be great. Also do you know if there are parish records available for these villages? GENUKI seems a bit hard to understand if these exist or not.
thanks again for any and all help :-)
LL/nev
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Hi again
I'll check out the Cross Mill for you later today and look through what I have in more detail.
Church records for the Flintshire parishes are available from Clwyd FHS in booklet form via Genfair:
http://www.genfair.co.uk/
I have some of them, but not recent ones as my Puleston/Lee line moved to the St Martins/Selattyn area of Shropshire in the 1750s.
Paul, one of our members does go to Hawarden Records Office regularly and I'lll contact him about this thread.
Regards
Gadget
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Hi
There is a William Cross with wife Ann and son George and some other children in Overton, but William is down as an Ag Lab, and george is down as 8 years old
H0107/ 1408/10
folio 24
page 11
Transcribed as Gross ??? ??? ??? Looks like Cross to me
ricky
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Thanks, Ricky - Overton's not far away. I don't see a suitable George on the 1851 yet - moving between Eng and Wales is a pain !
In 1851, there seem to be two Penley Mills. They are in ED 5a and ED 6.
Penley Mill in ED 6 was occupied by the Price family -
HO107/1994 F 66 P 1
Head was Hannah Price, widow, (age obliterated) , late miller's wife, b. Ellesmere. Children, all in their 20s, were born in Erbistock, Denbighshire - not very far away. One of the sons is a George Price, aged 22.
In ED5a, Penley Mill was occupied by Francis Cross as in 1841:
HO107/1994 F 58 P 1
Cross
Francis, 56, miller - master employing 2 men
Sarah, ?, b. Overton
Pamela, ?
Charles, 14
Sarah, 12
Francis, 11
Margaret, 4
Philip Chase, servant, 22, miller's servant, b. Halghton
Edward Blake, servant, 15, miller's servant
all b. Penley unless stated
I'm wondering if this last mill became known as Cross Mill to distinguish it from the one that the Prices occupied.
Gadget
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Looks like we have two George Cross in the same area, born within 2-3 years of each other, each with a father William, both ag labs ::)
Gadget
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Hi Gadget
there are two Penley Mills on the 1841
Margaret Lea and family ( flour mill) is at one mill
H0107/ 1408/2
folio 6
page 4
ricky
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Yep - same as 1851 - my reply #8 - I think the one that Francis is in (unnamed in 1841, just Penley) is the same one as on the 1851 and I think that that is the one that Lizzie refers to as Cross Mill.
Gadget
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I think the best thing is to work from when he got married in 1872, aged 38. This is what Lizzie has as definite info.
Maybe Lizzie could give us the location and his wife's name - there are a few showing.
Gadget
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I wonder if this is him in 1891 in Dudley wth a wife Ann (rather than mother): RG1/2296 Folio 21 Page 35
b. Houghton, Flintshire = Halghton which is in the parish of Hanmer. It's pronounced Houghton - my Lees came from there.
Penley, Overton, Hanmer, Bangor, Erbistock are all in the same area and very close to Ellesmere - the River Dee is the boundary.
Gadget
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Ricky - when you come down from the ladder ;D - I think this is the one you found on the 1841:
IGI, patron submission.
Baptism, Overton, March 1834, b. 9 March 1834. Parents - William Cross & Anna Cross.
Paul might be able to check it.
Gadget
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Is there a mill in Halghton? Sounds very possible that one,
the census returns for him that I have are;
1881 Dudley
george cross m 47 lab in iron works wales
hannah m 46
1891 Dudley
george cross m 57 lab in ironworks wales flint houghton
ann m 57
1901 Dudley
george cross widwr 67 lab in iron works wales
marriage cert feb 18 1872 halesowen Worc.
george cross 38 bachelor Lab. Hawne william Cross Miller
Hannah Round 32 spinster ?maker Hawne james round Nailor or miner (quite hard to read tht bit)
although hannahs date of birth appears to have changed by a few years I am confident that it is her as the children and family details all correlate.
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Hi
There are two mills in Halghton on the 1841
Both called Halghton Mills
one family is Edward Griffiths and family, and next door in another mill is Joseph Dutton or Dolton and family
H0107/ 1408/5
folio 5
page 3
ricky
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argh!!!!! :D and I was soo hoping that it was going to be easy! never mind :-\
first of all, can I say a BIG THANK YOU to you all for being so great, and giving up your time to help me.
is there any listings for millers in the area? I dont know if there is such a thing, but does anyone know of an equivalent to a victorian yellow pages in that area that I could check?
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Hi Lizzie
Don't give up - Paul will check the baptism records when he gets to the Records Office, I'm sure. Meanwhile, I'm going to have a little look around Halghton. It's a very small place and I've done a bit on it because of my Lee ancestors.
Gadget
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If you are interested!?I have the Baptisms of six children of Francis and Sarah Cross in the Penley Parish Registers I have with me at home.
John;30/01/1825
Jane;08/02/1829
Charles;10/07/1836
Sarah;08//05/1838
"Frances";01/05/1840.
Margaret Emma;19/12/1841
All are given as the children of Francis Cross(Miller) and his Wife Sarah said to be of the Parish.
Regards
William Russell Jones
Cefn Mawr
Wrexham.
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Hello - long time no see :D
Any William Cross, miller, William :-\
Gadget
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I did see this yesterday but was busy doing other things I forgot about it.There is a mention of a William Cross(Labourer) as a Christening parent with his Wife Elizabeth from 1814 to 1821.
Regards
William Russell Jones
Cefn Mawr
Wrexham.
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No William in Hanmer who was a miller at all?
:-\
I'm interested in Griffiths, the miller, in Halghton - he might have been one of my offshoots :)
Gadget
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The Margaret Lea and family in 1841 mentioned earlier are all in my Tree.I'm quite curious as to the Surname of Sarah the Wife of Francis.
Regards
William Russell Jones
Cefn Mawr
Wrexham.
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Hello Lizzie, Bridget :) Overton baptisms.
March 9 1834. George s/o William & Ann Crofs(old s ::)) Lightwood Green Overton. Fathers occupation Miller.
A few siblings.
June 5 1831. Samuel. fathers occ, Labourer ???
May 1 1836. William. fathers occ, Miller. Buried Nov 1836. age 7 months
March 27 1838. John. fathers occ, Labourer.
May 2 1841. William. fathers occ Miller.
July 10 1831. Pamela. d/o Thomas & Sarah Crofs. Lightwood Green Miller.
Oct 20 1833. Eliza. """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
I also came across baptisms for children of
Charles & Elizabeth Lea. The Argoed, Overton. Farmer.
Feb 4 1844. Margaret.
Sep 4 1845. Henry.
Feb 14 1847. Emma.
Jan 7 1849. John.
Feb 5 1850. William.
John & Elizabeth Lea. Overton. Wheelwright.
Sep 6 1829. Elizabeth.
April 26 1835. Harriett.
Sarah & Joseph Lee. Overton Saddler.
Sep 29 1838. Sarah Freeman.
Oct 18 1839. William.
March 10 1844. Joseph.
John & Ann Lea. Overton. Innkeeper.
Nov 18 1838. Henry.
Nov 12 1843. John. The White Horse, Overton.
Don't know if any of them are yours Bridget :-\
Paul.
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Oh, well done, Paul :)
I knew you'd get to the bottom of it.
Not sure about the Lee/Leas that you've found though. Mine moved to St Martins in the 1750s.
Thanks for looking for them.
Bridget ;D
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Thank you!!!
Thats brilliant. ;D Def them as the names Samuel and William have both repeated in every generation from then to date.
Again, cant say how pleased I am to have this nailed down, now all I need to do is follow this line further back!
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Oh, well done, Paul :)
I knew you'd get to the bottom of it.
Not sure about the Lee/Leas that you've found though. Mine moved to St Martins in the 1750s.
Thanks for looking for them.
Bridget ;D
I couldn't leave them there Bridget :).... you never know :-\
Paul.
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Paul all the Leas you found are mine.I have all the details in my Tree.
Regards
William Russell Jones
Cefn Mawr
Wrexham.
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That's a relief ;D ;D ;D
Paul - any chance of finding a marriage of George Cross and Ann?
March 9 1834. George s/o William & Ann Crofs(old s )
Gadget
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That's a relief ;D ;D ;D
Paul - any chance of finding a marriage of George Cross and Ann?
March 9 1834. George s/o William & Ann Crofs(old s )
Gadget
I'll have a look in that area Bridget :) but you know what Hanmers like :-\
Paul.
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Hanmer's like this:
(http://www.ancestral-tales.co.uk/assets/images/autogen/a_R06.jpg)
:)
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Hanmer's like this:
(http://www.ancestral-tales.co.uk/assets/images/autogen/a_R06.jpg)
:)
;D ;D ;D very helpful ;)
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Hello My Name is John Francis Cross. I am a descendent of the Cross family that were connected with Penley Mills. My great grandfather John Cross moved from Penley Wales to Australia in the late 1800's. I have a family member who has done extensive research on the family history and would possibly be able to answer your questions. Please feel free to contact me.
Kind regards John