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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Armagh => Topic started by: hamlets on Friday 19 June 09 21:15 BST (UK)

Title: O'Neill - Master of Lurgan Workhouse
Post by: hamlets on Friday 19 June 09 21:15 BST (UK)
John Henry O'Neill was Master of the Lurgan Workhouse in the 1920's. His wife Emma, as was the custom, was the Matron.
John's father was James O'Neill, an undertaker etc., of King St Newry. Any info on this family much appreciated.
Title: Re: O'Neill - Master of Lurgan Workhouse
Post by: TF13 on Saturday 20 June 09 12:28 BST (UK)
hi hamlets,

a john h. O'NEILE was the master of lurgan workhouse in 1910,with the mrs as matron.

the 1901 census for john street in lurgan has;
john henry o'neile,c of i,27,born county armagh
emma rebecca o'neile,27,maybe born roscommon
elizabeth jane norah,3
james oliver roe,1

a possible maiden name for emma rebecca might be Karr,but it's just speculation.

tony
Title: Re: O'Neill - Master of Lurgan Workhouse
Post by: audrey on Saturday 20 June 09 12:36 BST (UK)
John Henry O Neill 7/9/1873 at Newry
father Jame O Neill
mother Sarah Balmer

audrey
Title: Re: O'Neill - Master of Lurgan Workhouse
Post by: TF13 on Sunday 30 August 09 22:36 BST (UK)
i don't know if you've seen this or not but this is the family in the 1911.on page 2 of form A he signed his name John H.

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Armagh/Lurgan_Urban/John_Street__part_/296096/

Tony
Title: Re: O'Neill - Master of Lurgan Workhouse
Post by: hamlets on Monday 31 August 09 04:35 BST (UK)
Tony TF 13 -
Many thanks for providing the link to the 1911 Census.
Once again I was caught out by the multiple variations of the spelling of the surname.
Thank you.
Title: Re: O'Neill - Master of Lurgan Workhouse
Post by: mouser on Thursday 10 September 09 20:20 BST (UK)
What info do you need??  John and Emma are my great grandparents but I'm only new to all this so may not be that much help!!
Regards
Title: Re: O'Neill - Master of Lurgan Workhouse
Post by: hamlets on Thursday 10 September 09 20:47 BST (UK)
To Mouser:-
Am simply knocked over by your info that John and Emma are your gt gndparents. That being so, then I am related to you via the gndparents of James O'Neill  of King St Newry.
The obit of James O'Neill in the Newry Reporter for 2 Feb 1922 mentions (of course) John Henry O'Neill. It also mentions my gndfather as a relative. I have developed a largish tree of links in South Down and south Armagh.
I live in Bangor, Co. Down.
Regards.
Title: Re: O'Neill - Master of Lurgan Workhouse
Post by: mouser on Friday 11 September 09 20:20 BST (UK)
Hamlets;
Its really is a small world!!  As I said before I've just started on my tree,but having a great time so far, no doubt our paths will cross again!
Regards
Mouser
Title: Re: O'Neill - Master of Lurgan Workhouse
Post by: diggerdaisy on Tuesday 10 November 09 03:23 GMT (UK)
hi this is my first time on here John and Emma are also my great grandparents my grandmother being their 2nd youngest child Emma.

Emma's was Nee: Karr

I have many many photos of my great grand parents their obituries/ letters and a full family tree
Title: Re: O'Neill - Master of Lurgan Workhouse
Post by: hamlets on Friday 13 November 09 15:48 GMT (UK)
Hello diggerdaisy!
Many thanks for your msg.
I am related to your family through James (m. Sarah Balmer) and William (of Liverpool, m. Elizabeth Morton). My grandfather is mentioned in the obit of James as a "relative".
The connection is probably thru James's father, Henry, but todate I have not found any documents.
Can you help? The early 1800's is the problem area.
You will have seen some of my msgs above and the replies. Please you do not abandon me!!
Best regards,
hamlets
Title: Re: O'Neill - Master of Lurgan Workhouse
Post by: diggerdaisy on Monday 16 November 09 13:19 GMT (UK)
Hi Hamlet
I have the family tree O'Neill's of Fathom, Camlough, Clontigora, Ravensdale, Killeavy and Meigh 16th - 19th century. It ends with  2 sons Owen (d. 1841) and felix (d.1835)
Felix had 1 son Peter
Owen 2 sons John and Henry. I have a feeling this may be my lot due to the names.
Also I had a look at the census that was posted (awesome thankyou) and John and Emma's eldest daughter Elizabeth was always known as Norah. So this tells me we may know an auntie Norah but her name was really Elizabeth wonder how many names are like that.
My grandmother was Emma Balmer I always thought it an odd name now I know she was named after her granny which is pretty wonderful.
I have a few bits about Emma Karr's side too in case anyone checks on here researching that side.
If you would like to email me I will happily scan this tree and email to you.
I have a whole album of photos (all the old plates mostly taken Dublin) Owen and Family in 1841 where all living in Dublin maybe why I have the album. Felix and family living in Maigh-Killeavy in Griffiths survey of 1864.
Am going to try and scan and send a cutting from paper but will send this first in case I loose it again.

Regards Daisy

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Title: Re: O'Neill - Master of Lurgan Workhouse
Post by: diggerdaisy on Monday 16 November 09 13:46 GMT (UK)
Hi Hamlets
Me again I just found a Henry who died in 1798 had 2 sons Peter (d.1830) John(d.young) Peter had 2 sons John and Henry no info on them ;;;;
All I can tell you is Peter known as Peter of Clonlum married Alice O'Hanlon dau. of Brain of Clonlum and Peter and Alice buried together in Killeavy.
Hope you can read the attachments

Regards Daisy
Title: Re: O'Neill - Master of Lurgan Workhouse
Post by: diggerdaisy on Monday 16 November 09 13:48 GMT (UK)
Hamlet
Sorry won't let me send attachments

daisy
Title: Re: O'Neill - Master of Lurgan Workhouse
Post by: diggerdaisy on Monday 16 November 09 13:50 GMT (UK)
Hamlet
See now I am chittering away like a wee bird in the dawn. Is there anyway you could please email the photo on your post

Regards
Daisy
Title: Re: O'Neill - Master of Lurgan Workhouse
Post by: aghadowey on Monday 16 November 09 13:55 GMT (UK)
You can send hamlets a PM (personal message) to exchange email addresses, etc. by clicking on small scroll under their user name on left side of their post. See Help pages for more details-
www.rootschat.com/help/pms.php
Title: Re: O'Neill - Master of Lurgan Workhouse
Post by: DesONeile on Sunday 30 May 10 09:27 BST (UK)
John Henry O'Neile was as far as I know the last Master of the Union Workhose in Lurgan. He and Emma had ten children, five of whom didn't draw their pension, one of them being my father Murray Eugene O'Neile who died in 1971. It so happens that yesterday 29th May 2010 I was standing on the grave plot owned by the workhouse in which, amongst others, are buried, John Henry, his wife Emma, my father Murray Eugene and his wife Aileen Victoria (Simpson - Cookstown) and another Emma O'Neile but due to the semi obliterated inscription I can't tell if she was a daughter or daughter in law of John Henry.
What I know of John Henry, other than him having been a fairly strict disciplinarian, was that he was a bit of an athlete. He played rugby and in 1910 took part in the IAAA championships in Dublin where he won a gold medal for tossing the 56 lbs without follow (22' 10"), a silver for the 220 yds and a bronze for the 100 yds. I have the gold and silver medals but the bronze was lent to a family member and never returned.
I'm told the photo doesn't do him justice and there was more humour in the man than the severe exterior suggests.
John Henry was also a freemason and my Worshipful Master Medal is in fact the one awarded to John Henry and subsequently my father and then me.
Title: Re: O'Neill - Master of Lurgan Workhouse
Post by: DesONeile on Sunday 30 May 10 09:34 BST (UK)
Mouser,
            I take it your second and third christian names are Aileen Janet?
Title: Re: O'Neill - Master of Lurgan Workhouse
Post by: DesONeile on Sunday 30 May 10 09:47 BST (UK)
TF13
There is a family connection with Karr. For years I fruitlessly researched a VC awarded to a family member in the Indian Mutiny. Originally I assumed it was to an O'Neile but then was led to believe the recipient was to a man called Carr but in the cemetery at Dollingstown there is at least one grave for a person called Karr. None of these names however show on the official list of VC recipients.
Title: Re: O'Neill - Master of Lurgan Workhouse
Post by: DesONeile on Sunday 30 May 10 09:55 BST (UK)
Wait till you hear this for a good one.
Norah (Elizabeth) married a McMahon who lived in Co Doegal, Letterkenny to be precise. They had at least two children Derek and Norah. When I went to Coleraine Academical Institution as a boarder in 1964 Norah, my cousin, was the assistant matron.

By the way, I also live in Bangor.
Title: Re: O'Neill - Master of Lurgan Workhouse
Post by: diggerdaisy on Sunday 25 July 10 13:38 BST (UK)
Hi Desmond

Uncle Murrays son lol long long time when I used to visit uncle murray and he would take me to the round tower I have lots of photos of your family was it your sister who had twins?

My granny uncle murrays 3rd youngest sister is also buried with her mum and dad.

The last 2 sisters have died in the last few years Glady and Paddy (Patrica) the youngest was the last to die. I have used this site once and have no idea now how to email you or anything :)? Did you get the old family tree of David o'neill?? if not I have it

Regards Janet

Not sure how to add a new post this is just some infgo I have about some of the children of John and Emma


I asked granny years ago to tell me about her family and have just dug out the book thought I would post the info here in case it helps anyone

John Henry O'Neill was born 6th Aug 1874 died 5th June 1949
Emma Karr born 10th Aug 1874 died 20th March 1948
James Owen Roe O'Neill (Jim) and Elizabeth Irene (Norah) where both boarders at Methodist College
The workhouse had a rule that there where only 14 boys allowed to live there at any given time so at the age of 15
William Herbert (Bertie) was sent to London to work he died in Rothsay where he lived with his 2nd wife Annie his first wife died
Emma Balmer (my granny) was born in the work house and went to PE Lurgan school
she worked as a civil servant married James Burling McCartney they divorced shortly after the war had 2 sons Kerry and Ross
Ann Beatrice (Nan) was the headmistriss of Kilmacrenan National school and the organist in the parish church for 37 years
Murray was manager of the Belfast bank in Antrim
John Henry (Jack) worked for BP
Gladys was a nurse and married Colin Kearns  ( a surgeon who recieved obe or such like from the queen)   who died when I was very young
children: **
Norah was a teacher and left to work as a clerk at the Clows Flour mill Portadown she married James Alex Wier (uncle Ackie) Ackie's family has something to do with the coach business
Children: Sam (deceased)
** and I think ** (not sure about this)
Patrica (Paddy) was a civil servant and married Robert
Children: **
Jim was a mechanic for George Rowland & Harris Newry George Rowland was Norah's brother in law Jim served in the 1st worl war I have cards and hankies he sent to his mother from France and some lovely photos of him


I would love to learn about the Karr side I know very little would like to slap my self for not listening more and asking more questions when I could :(

Moderator's Comment: Names of living people aren't allowed to be posted on Rootschat so some details have been removed from this post. If anyone can fill in more recent family details it would be best done by PM (personal message) rather than online.
Title: Re: O'Neill - Master of Lurgan Workhouse
Post by: diggerdaisy on Monday 26 July 10 15:34 BST (UK)
Just been through the old box and found some little bits of info on this family thought I would post them incase there is anything interesting in them.

Daughter Nan ( Ann Beatrice) died married Arthur E McMahon (Athur aged 98 died 19/10/1988 in Milford Co.Donegal)
They had 1 son and 4 daughters one daughter at the time of Nans death living in Connecticut buried Milford presbyterian graveyard

John and Emma O'Neil upon her death 20/3/1948 of a cerebral h had been married for 53 years so must have been married some time in 1895 interred new cemertery
Just found clipping of their golden wedding they where married February 12th 1895 at Rostrevor, Co. Down
John Died 5/6/1949

James Owen Roe (Jim) died 1/4/1982 buried family plot Magheralin Churchyard
His eldest son  died as a young teen he was called John Henry (Jackie) their is a very long list of mourners names I have never heard of.

John Henry (Jack) died 4/6 1987 buried Seago cemetery, Portadown
John was also a member of the Portadown Masonic Lodge No:231 and was  a Sir Knight

William Herbert (Bertie) obitury 31st may 1974: he was an Honorary Sheriff of the county of Bute he was ordained as a deacon of Trinity church Rothesay


Please also note in all newspaper ads the family name is spelt O,Neile



Title: Re: O'Neill - Karr
Post by: diggerdaisy on Monday 26 July 10 15:56 BST (UK)
The only information I have found regarding the Karr side of the family is that "Auntie Mac"
was Emma Rebeca O'Niele's sister Elizabeth I have a letter Emma wrote to "My Dear Lizzie"
I know auntie Mac was my granny's favorite aunt. Her name was Elizabeth McMurray she died 22/10/1954 she was a widow with no children. I have her last will and testament and Des you might be interested your dad was named in the will and left the sum of 30 pounds
as where all John and Emma's children. The will also tells me she had a brother Willian Thomas Karr who had a daughter called Lily. After all expenses paid and a granite headstone the remainder was given to the cripples home in Blefast.
So I now know there was at least 1 brother and 2 sisters in the Karr family anyone know anything else I would love to here from you

Regards Daisy
Title: Re: O'Neill - Master of Lurgan Workhouse
Post by: diggerdaisy on Monday 26 July 10 16:05 BST (UK)
Just been reading many letters John Henry O'Neile sent to his daughter Emma and I don't think he was quite the grooch he liked to present after his wife's death he wrote a very long letter he always knew the girls sneaked out to the movies and his wife would slip out of bed after he bolted the front door and open it for them to slip in. He knew they smoked tealeaves up the chimney. I lovedthe bit he tells about after the boys and older girls had left the breakfast table (he always had 2 boiled eggs soft yolk and toast fingers (soldiers) he would give the 3 youngest a soldier each to dip in his yoke and their marriage around valentines. All letters are to his darling daughter and signed your ever loving father.
I think he had a big soft heart :)
Title: Re: O'Neill - Master of Lurgan Workhouse
Post by: hamlets on Saturday 07 August 10 16:01 BST (UK)
Hello Diggerdaisy!
I have (am sure I am not the only one) really enjoyed your tales of "Stern John", especially the second posted on 26 July last (the girls, the tea leaves, the pictures - all this will bring back similar memories to many!!).
In your first post of 26 July, you seem to lament that you do not know anything about the Karrs of Roscommon. This is what I have found to date:-
Emma Rebecca Karr was the second youngest child of William Karr (1834-1913) and Elisabeth Irwin (1838-1897). The other children were Elisabeth (m. McMurray and d. 1954), Mary Ann (b. 1866), Martha (1868-1869), and William Thomas (b.1875 and m. 1912). All from near Dereen/Toomna. Co. Roscommon.
William Karr's father was also a William Karr (1805-1875).
Elisabeth Irwin's father was an Arnott Irwin (1803-1887)
Elisabeth Irwin had a sister Margaret Irwin (b.abt 1847 Co. Roscommon) who m. Thomas Percival on 11 Nov 1867. They had two children Eliza Percival (b. 1868) and Fanny Percival (b. 1870). Here (in cos. Roscommon, Leitrim and Longford) be Percivals - difficulties aplenty.
Hope the above will get you started!
Title: Re: O'Neill - Master of Lurgan Workhouse
Post by: linny1 on Monday 09 August 10 08:09 BST (UK)
Do you happen to know anything more about Thomas Percival?  I am researcing the Percival families of Co. Longford and Leitrim.
Title: Re: O'Neill - Master of Lurgan Workhouse
Post by: hamlets on Monday 09 August 10 09:40 BST (UK)
Linny 1-
John Henry O'Neill/O'Neile - the start of this topic - belongs to another branch of my family (or should I say clan?). His wife's antecedants have now made me arrive in Roscommon and linked to the Percivals.

The reason for my comment in my post of the 7 August {"Here (in cos. Roscommon, Leitrim and Longford) be Percivals - difficulties aplenty".} is that, although I have "out of the blue" linked to Percivals in Roscommon, in fact I have a more personal interest in the Percivals of that area as my gt gndmother was a Percival from Longford. Yes, I have arrived looking for Percivals in the Roscommon/Leitrim/Longford area from two entirely different directions.

So maybe this post should be under "Longford"

And the reason for saying "difficulties aplenty" is that I have made no progress with my Longford Percivals (at last, the answer to your question).
But here is what I know:-
Robert Jones (1847-1915) of Cloonageeher (Co. Longford) m. Ellen Percival (b.1848) of Cloonageeher in Mohill Parish Church (CoI) (Cloonageeher in Longford is part of Mohill Parish in Leitrim!) on 4 Sept 1873. (Robert's residence at the time was Tyrrellspass).
The father of Robert was Hugh Jones (farmer).
The father of Ellen was Robert Percival (farmer).
Robert and Ellen had some seven children, Margaret Percival Jones being my gndmother (also m. in Mohill in 1910).
Regards.
Title: Re: O'Neill - Master of Lurgan Workhouse
Post by: linny1 on Monday 09 August 10 11:43 BST (UK)
Amazing stuff....to think there is another person out there actually interested in my family. I am in Australia. There is also a man in New Zealand doing our tree.I am the ggrand daughter of Arthur Percival b.1833 son of John Percival and Ann Rosemond.Arthur came to New South Wales in 1855.His sister Ann married William Jones and their son Robert b 1.9.1844 also came to NSW.I have been to Ireland and met some of the relatives who are still in Co Leitrim.  The Percivals were in Co Longford and Leitrim but we have now been able to make all the connections.Arthur also had a brother Henry who had  a wife who's address was" Cloonagare Newtownforbes Co Longford Ireland".....according to Griffiths there was also a Margaret Percival in Cloonageeher in 1854....what else do you know and do you have any documentation ? Where are you?
Title: Re: O'Neill - Master of Lurgan Workhouse
Post by: hamlets on Monday 09 August 10 12:33 BST (UK)
Hello Linny 1

Yes - amazing stuff! I will have a look thru my just so-well organised (ha!) archives before composing a reply - doubt if I can tell you much more but you never know. I live in Bangor, Co. Down.
Regards.
Title: Re: O'Neill - Master of Lurgan Workhouse
Post by: rachymac on Thursday 20 January 11 19:24 GMT (UK)
I found all these posts tonight and wanted to add my piece. Elizabeth was my grandmother and she married \Arthur McMahon of Milford, co donegal, they had 5 children, the youngest a boy, my father, their names are mary, gladis, Joan, Noreen and Derek. Noreen was the matron at CAI and not Nora as previously stated on her.
I am lucky enough to have a family heirloom which is a jewellery box that had been hand made by henry in the time of the workhouse, its very pretty and i treasure it.
My aunt is a wealth of knowledge about the o neil clan and im sure i could ask her any questions any of you have
Title: Re: O'Neill - Master of Lurgan Workhouse
Post by: diggerdaisy on Friday 04 February 11 17:51 GMT (UK)
Hi Rachymac
I am either your 1st cousins twice removed or something like that :)
I have the Karr family photo album if I sent you photos would your aunt be able to tell us who some of them are? Also does she know how Nell who married Tommy Shaw fits into the family. I last saw Nell and Tommy in 1998 and auntie Nell was able to name a few of the people in the photos her mum and brother so she must be related via the Karr side but it was such an exciting evening as she showed me a hankie one of her relatives embroidered and gave to King Billy on the way to the Boyne and he later returned it to her among other fantastic stories that I forget a lot of what was said. Oh another thing I would love to know the O'Neills from Lurgan David. Sam and Sue does your aunt know who their parents where I visited them all my life and have no idea where they fit into the tree.

regards Daisy
Below is the clipping when Tommy died and sorry for typo's byt I am in Aussie and if I have the light on the mossies will chew every bit of flesh left on my legs :) and typing in the dark its a bit hard :)


Last Great War veteran dies at 102
By David Sharrock, Ireland Correspondent 12:01AM GMT 06 Mar 2002

THE last surviving Irishman to have served in the Great War was buried with military honours yesterday.

Thomas "Tommy" Shaw, who was 102, died after a fall last weekend. His wife Eleanor, 94, attended yesterday's funeral in Bangor, Co Down, where a bugler from the Royal Irish Regiment sounded Last Post.

Mr Shaw, born in June 1899, joined the Royal Irish Rifles in January 1916. He was on his way to the front when he was seen by his brother, a military police officer.

Mr Shaw was arrested for lying about his age and sent back to Ireland. In 1916 the official minimum age for service in the front line was 18.

As soon as he reached that age he returned to the battlefields with the 16th Battalion the Royal Irish Rifles and saw action at Ypres, Messines and Passchendaele. During the Second World War Mr Shaw was responsible for meat rationing in Northern Ireland. It was as a civil servant working at Stormont that he met his wife "Nell". They were married for 60 years.

Mr Shaw was buried at Clandeboye cemetery, a Union flag decorated with poppies covering his coffin. A Royal Irish pipe major played the lament Flowers of the Forest.
Title: Re: O'Neill - Master of Lurgan Workhouse
Post by: hamlets on Friday 04 February 11 20:03 GMT (UK)
Dear diggerdaisy,
You sent me a personal email in which you described me as a "wee treasure".
I hope you don't mind, but I am so enthralled with being called a "wee treasure" that I just simply have to announce - nay, boast -  about this to everyone.
Why, not even my dear mother (bless her laddered stockings) ever called me a "wee treasure". Mind you, she called me many names, some too delicate to be mentioned here.
I do hope that you and racheymac can solve many of the outstandind questions about our connections and that you will keep me advised.
Best regards.
Title: Re: O'Neill - Master of Lurgan Workhouse
Post by: hamlets on Thursday 03 March 11 15:49 GMT (UK)
Dear Rachymac,
Am interested in your Reply no. 28 of 20 Jan. In you state that "Elizabeth was my grandmother" who married a McMahon from Donegal.
But it was Annie Beatrice who married a McMahon:-

Year and location from FamilySearch Record Search

Name: Arthur Edwin McMahon Registration District: Millford Event Type: MARRIAGES Registration Quarter and Year: Jan - Mar 1927 Estimated Birth Year: Age (at Death): Mother's Maiden Name: Film Number: 101576 Volume Number: 2 Page Number: 105 Digital Folder Number: 4199368 Image Number: 00021 Collection: Ireland, Civil Registration Indexes, 1845-1958

Name: Annie Beatrice O'Neile Registration District: Millford Event Type: MARRIAGES Registration Quarter and Year: Jan - Mar 1927 Estimated Birth Year: Age (at Death): Mother's Maiden Name: Film Number: 101576 Volume Number: 2 Page Number: 105 Digital Folder Number: 4199368 Image Number: 00024 Collection: Ireland, Civil Registration Indexes, 1845-1958

Can you set the record striaght for us please? Also, what clan or tribe of O'Neills does your Aunt have lots of info on. I am really stuck on info about O'Neills in south Armagh in the early 1800's.
I was going to ask Daisy about this, but looking at her last Reply (No. 29) she must be legless by now with all those mossies after her.  Am told that the Australian ones are the worst. Of course, when you have lived as long as I have, you will have experienced being legless a few times. These mossies are getting everywhere.
Regards. 
Title: Re: O'Neill - Master of Lurgan Workhouse
Post by: diggerdaisy on Friday 04 March 11 12:54 GMT (UK)
Hi Hamlets

The mossies are dying thank goodness :) have a few months now for my legs to grow back :P you are quite right Arthur was married to Annie they lived in the Manse in LetterKenny...Rachymac must have gotten a tad mixed up....Rachymac at a good guess is the child of my 1st cousin once removed (Annie and Arthurs child) I think I remember her from a wedding I went to in Donegal while Arthur was still alive :) who is it you are looking for in Armagh?
Hoping this finds you not too cold it is a little bit chilly here now....... I had to put clothes on to-day it was so cold :)

Daisy
Title: Re: O'Neill - Master of Lurgan Workhouse
Post by: rachymac on Friday 04 March 11 18:22 GMT (UK)
The manse was in Milford.
Title: Re: O'Neill - Master of Lurgan Workhouse
Post by: the rebel singer on Tuesday 29 March 11 17:15 BST (UK)
John Henry and Emma Rebecca were my grandparents and diggerdaisy will recognise me from my screen name?? She's my 2nd cousin and her grandmother, Emma ( Billie) was my aunt/mother Gladys' sister. Numbers 8 and 9 of the O'Neile clan. All that generation are now dead; not sure about the other halves save one.I have been following the family tree work of several of our clan and am happy to share  what i have if systems allow or through personal message attachments. my mother Gladys died in 2003 and all her photos and letters are kept in bulging files. Paddy died in 2006 I think and her daughter has similar archives. i can fill in a few gaps on previuos posting as time allows but l;ast year I visited 47 High Street Lurgan, now a dentists and also the grave site where I can confirm that the 2nd Emma is diggerdaisy's grandmother. There seems to be a lot of room available for more people in the plot so watch this space I suppose!*! BTW My  father Colin was not a surgeon but the first group hospital administrator when the NHS was set up in 1948 and was very successful to the point that he was administering many hospitals in the south west metropolitan area of southern england by the time of his early death in 1964 - probably why he died so young!*!
Title: Re: O'Neill - Master of Lurgan Workhouse
Post by: hamlets on Tuesday 29 March 11 20:08 BST (UK)
Hello rebel singer!
Thank you for your very interesting msg.
Your gt. gt. gndmother was a Jane O'Neill. She lived in Carrickarnan beside Jonesborough and died in 1901. Her husband was probably Henry O'Neill.
I am reasonably certain that my O'Neills are related to yours of Carrickarnan and Newry.
[eg. my grandfather, at the funeral of your gt. gndfather James in Jan 1922 is mentioned as a "relative"].
But at the moment I cannot PROVE this and it is most frustrating.
May I ask what is the scope of the letters etc in your mothers files? Would she have much (any!) info on the early 1800's?
I am glad that you think that diggerdaisy will recognise you. As you can see, she has had some mossie problems (Reply 29 above).
But can it be that cold in OZ for her to have to put some clothes on? Shame.  (Reply 32)
I hope you may have lots of info for me!
Regards
Title: Re: O'Neill - Master of Lurgan Workhouse
Post by: the rebel singer on Tuesday 05 April 11 09:03 BST (UK)
Hi Hamlets; thanks for the reply; I have some info on the 1800s but I think a lot of it is already known. I have some info on the change of spelling and will do some cutting and pasting when I have a mo. Trying to retire at the moment and you wouldn't credit how difficult it is!*! will try and attach a miscellany of family photos and let the sleuths do their work! I'm sure many of you already have these. good hunting.
Title: Re: O'Neill - Master of Lurgan Workhouse
Post by: hamlets on Friday 06 May 11 22:18 BST (UK)
Dear diggerdaisy, mouser, desoneile, rachymac, the rebel singer and all interested -
In my reply no. 35, I mentioned that "your gt gt gndmother was a Jane O'Neill ....Her husband was probably Henry O'Neill".
Henry and Jane had (as far as I know) about 7 children:-
W
Title: Re: O'Neill - Master of Lurgan Workhouse
Post by: hamlets on Friday 06 May 11 22:41 BST (UK)
Dear diggerdaisy, mouser, desoneile, rachymac, the rebel singer and all interested -

In my reply no. 35, I mentioned that "your gt gt gndmother was a Jane O'Neill ....Her husband was probably Henry O'Neill".
Henry and Jane had (as far as I know) about 7 children:-

William (1837-1897) who m. Elizabeth Morton
Martha Jane (1839-1913) who did not marry
Maria (1846-1917) who m. Andrew Maitland
Susan (1847-       ) who m. Isaac Irvine
James (1850-1922) who m. Sarah Balmer
Frances (1855-1921) who m. James Dick
Anne (1856-1907) who m. John Caulfield

I have been struggling for many a day to find the maiden name of Jane O'Neill and have a suggestion for you to consider from these two items:-

1. Jane's daughter, Susan O'Neill m. Isaac Irvine. Susan Irvine had two daughters, Martha Jane BELL Irvine (b. 1876 probably Rathfriland) and Elizabeth Irvine (b. abt. 1877, probably Rathfriland).
2. Jane's son James O'Neill m. Sarah Balmer. His full name is James BELL O'Neill (this from the Will Calendars at PRONI)..

Considering naming customs in those days, the probability of Jane O'Neill being Jane Bell  is quite high.
I intend to name her Jane Bell unless proved otherwise by your "files bulging with letters and photographs" (??? - hint, hint).

This now broadens the scope of our quest quite considerably. Although the period is "difficult" (early 1800's), I am hoping that someone out there can provide some clues.

Best regards,
hamlets
Title: Re: O'Neill - Master of Lurgan Workhouse
Post by: hamlets on Friday 27 May 11 20:04 BST (UK)
Hello all you Contributorsand thanks for your interest and replies!
I visited the Belfast Newspaper Archives today and found these items which I have transcribed:-

“Newry Reporter” of 15 July 1922:-
We regret to announce the death, which took place yesterday morning, from pneumonia, of Mr. James B. O’Neill, younger son of the late Mr. and Mrs. James O’Neill, King Street, Newry. For many years the deceased, who was quite a young man, assisted his father in the wine and spirit trade and in general posting and funeral undertaking work. His father pre-deceased him on the 27th January last and he then succeeded to the business. His health for some time past had not been of a robust character. He was an exceedingly well-known figure throughout Newry and the surrounding districts, and by his many friends and acquaintances his death will be heard of with much sorrow. He leaves to mourn his loss one brother – Mr. John Henry O’Neill, Master of the Lurgan Workhouse – and four married sisters. The funeral will take place tomorrow (Sunday) afternoon at 3.00pm, to St. Patrick’s Churchyard, Newry.
                               
                                                 *******************

“Newry Reporter” of 18 July 1922:-
On Sunday afternoon, at 3 o’clock, internment took place in St Patrick’s Churchyard, Newry, of Mr. James B. O’Neill, King Street, Newry, younger son of the late Mr. James O’Neill who was a spirit merchant, posting establishment proprietor and funeral undertaker, King Street, Newry.
 
There was a very large attendance at the funeral, the cortege including members of all sections of the people of the town and district, while numerous vehicles brought up (the rear) of the mournful procession. The dimensions of the funeral cortege testified to the widespread regret evoked by the deceased’s demise at an early age, and to the sympathy felt with his brother and four married sisters and other relatives in their bereavement.

The chief mourners were – Messrs John Henry O’Neill, Master of the Lurgan Workhouse (brother); Thomas Balmer, Newry (uncle); James O’Neill, Liverpool, and Ernest Mellon, Newry (nephews); John Balmer, Newry, and William O’Neill, Liverpool (cousins); David O’Neill, Forkhill; Wm. Lockhart, Mullaglass; and Alex Weir, Newry (relatives). Two old friends of the family – Mr. David Lowry, of Hilltown, and Mr. John Fitzpatrick of Rathfriland – were also present.

The Rev. R G McBride, BA, assistant to the minister of Sandys Street Presbyterian Church, officiated at the graveside.

The wreaths were from John and Emma O’Neill and family, Lurgan; from Lizzie; from Martha and Dick McElhenny, Dublin; from uncle Thomas and Aunt Annie; from Cousins May, Cissy, Johnnie and Sara; from Ernest (nephew); from Mr. and Mrs. J. Reid, Loanda House; from Mr. and Mrs. McKee and family, King Street; and from P. McCourt, Water Street, Newry.

                                           ***********************
There was another brother - William James who was b. 28 Nov 1874 and was baptised at Sandys St. on 13 Jan 1876. Does anyone know what happened to him?
Title: Re: O'Neill - Master of Lurgan Workhouse
Post by: hamlets on Monday 10 September 12 13:22 BST (UK)
Hello diggerdaisey in OZ!
Have recently been reviewing some of the msgs under this heading (hoping for some additional long-lost info from you or maybe from one of our other contributors) when I looked again at Reply Np. 29 of 4 Feb 2011 about Tommy Shaw, the last surviving Irishman to have served in the Great War.
With this in mind, today I went to Clandeboy Cemetery to view his grave, expecting to see some proper acknowledgement of who he was and what he represented.
But no! His headstone could not have been more simple and direct - knowing now his background, its very simplicity seems to say "integrity".
Regards,
Hamlets
PS Have photo of headstone if any require it.

Title: Re: O'Neill - Master of Lurgan Workhouse
Post by: carletonwithane on Saturday 24 November 12 17:12 GMT (UK)
 :D

photograph of the o'neile family + one.  kathleen (my mother) carleton (nee o'neile) is on the extreme left and the child in the centre is my sister.
Title: Re: O'Neill - Master of Lurgan Workhouse
Post by: hamlets on Saturday 24 November 12 19:43 GMT (UK)
To Carletonwithane-
Many thanks for the photo.
In reply I have attached a photo of my father who has MORE THAN a passing resemblance to Joh Henry! Even from the photos they are related, but proving it - that's another tale!
Regards,
Hamlets.
PS I hope the photo I have "attached" downloads ok - this software is a bit odd! Everyone else seems to manage it except me.
Title: Re: O'Neill - Master of Lurgan Workhouse
Post by: carletonwithane on Saturday 01 December 12 19:36 GMT (UK)
 :)Reading the obituary for James B O’Neill, Newry Reporter 15th July 1922, I note that he had one brother John Henry O’Neill and 4 married sisters, no names for the sisters given.  His father James ran a shop at 5, King Street Newry in 1881.  In the 1901 census there is a James O’Neill and wife Sarah living at 13, King Street Newry.  In the 1911 census there is a James O’Neill and wife Sarah living at 2, King Street Newry.  These census records give the following information:-


1901 census               1911 census
13 King Street               2 King Street

James aged 47               James aged 57
Sarah aged 53               Sarah aged 65

H?  aged 27               H?  aged 37            
D? aged 23-25            D? aged 33-35

Sarah aged 22               Sarah aged 28
Annie aged 21               Annie?
Martha aged 19            Martha aged 25
James aged 17               James aged 23


The question marks have been added to signify that these persons (H for Henry and D. for an unnamed sister) had probably got married and left home since they are all still alive in 1922 and the 4 daughters are married.  Can anyone fill in the gaps?  How did John Henry come to spell his name O’Neile and not O’Neill as his father had done.  There is also a change from Presbyterian to Church of Ireland.  The children have only aged 6 years over a 10 year period while Sarah his wife has aged 12 years over the same period.  Surprisingly, James senior has aged 10 years over a 10 year period.
Title: Re: O'Neill - Master of Lurgan Workhouse
Post by: the rebel singer on Sunday 02 December 12 00:20 GMT (UK)
Hi Relatives and interested parties; the change from O'Neill to O'Neile was explained to me by several of his children - my mother and aunts and uncles. From early in the last century, John Henry was a political agent in Lurgan for Sir Edward Carson in the period leading up to the 1914 Home Rule Bill which was suspended once the first world war broke out. There was another O'Neill in the town and he quite often received "sensitive" letters intended for John Henry which he circulated freely in the town embarrassing several people. At Carson's request, he changed his surname to the O'Neile we all knew him by. The census of 1901 and various birth certificate would pinpoint when he had changed it. Hope this helps.
Title: Re: O'Neill - Master of Lurgan Workhouse
Post by: aghadowey on Sunday 02 December 12 14:38 GMT (UK)
His father James ran a shop at 5, King Street Newry in 1881.  In the 1901 census there is a James O’Neill and wife Sarah living at 13, King Street Newry.  In the 1911 census there is a James O’Neill and wife Sarah living at 2, King Street Newry.  These census records give the following information:-
1901 census               1911 census
13 King Street               2 King Street

Perhaps I can clear up some confusion here. The numbers in the census are not street numbers but the number of the house on the enumerator's form. In 1911 you can look at form B to see if there is any actual street number. In this case the street address is 5 King Street which matches the 1881 details mentioned.
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai002269760/
Title: Re: O'Neill - Master of Lurgan Workhouse
Post by: NorthDown1986 on Tuesday 11 December 12 16:43 GMT (UK)
Dont know if this is any use to anyone posting on here but I am the Great Grandson of James Burling McCartney who married Emma Balmer (divorced after the war). Their son * McCartney is my Granda and my Dads dad, he currently resides in Glasgow. JB McCartney died on 29 December 1997 and is buried at Dundonald Cemetry, I would be interested in researching my family histort further in depth ... would my roots orginate in Co Armagh? Or if any one has questions for me then please fire ahead
Title: Re: O'Neill - Master of Lurgan Workhouse
Post by: carletonwithane on Tuesday 11 December 12 17:44 GMT (UK)
 :)Your great grandmother is kneeling front right in the golden wedding photograph (1945) of your great great grandfather and great great grandmother that I posted on this site.  I was hoping someone would fill in the names as I can only recognise 5 of the family apart from Henry O’Neile and Emma. Emma McCartney lived in Belfast and was very close to her sister, my mother, Kathleen (extreme left in photograph) who also lived in Belfast until her death in 1966.  My eldest brother Michael was very good friends with Ross and Kerry.  I can still remember them all.  Your roots go back to 5 King Street, Newry Co. Down, then Co. Armagh. 
Title: Re: O'Neill - Master of Lurgan Workhouse
Post by: NorthDown1986 on Tuesday 11 December 12 20:13 GMT (UK)
Thats a good photo i must pass it onto my dad to look at. I have only ever met Kerry once in my lifetime so i dont know him on speaking terms but i would love to get in contact with him.... When did JB and Emma get married?
Title: Re: O'Neill - Master of Lurgan Workhouse
Post by: kerryjmcc on Thursday 13 December 12 00:05 GMT (UK)
I'm the Kerry in the Family Tree. Just joined this website so no idea how to make e-mail contact with you personally.

I can however name all the people in the photograph (24.11.2012) except the name of the Carelton young girl (centre front).

Front row kneeling from the left: Patricia (Paddy) Wood (nee O'Neile), my mother, Emma Balmer (Billie) McCartney (nee O'Neile).

Middle row from the left: Kathleen (Kitty) Carelton (nee O'Neile), James Alexander (Ackie) Weir, Elizabeth Jane (Norah) Weir (nee O'Neile), JH, ER, Annie Beatrice (Nan) McMahon (nee O'Neile), Marie Alice (Minnie) O'Neile (nee ???).

Back row from left: Murray Eugene (Murray) O'Neile, William Herbert (Bertie) O'Neill, John Henry (Jack) O'Neile, James Owen Roe (Jim) O'Neile.
Title: Re: O'Neill - Master of Lurgan Workhouse
Post by: kingskerswell on Thursday 13 December 12 07:53 GMT (UK)
Hi,
    When you have done another two posts you will be able to use the Personal Message (PM) system. You just click on the little green scroll below the name of the person you want to contact and then send a private message.

Regards
Title: Re: O'Neill - Master of Lurgan Workhouse
Post by: hamlets on Wednesday 02 January 13 08:18 GMT (UK)
Hello All!
In Reply No. 38 I surmised that Jane O'Neill's maiden could have been Jane Bell.
This was achieved by superior brainpower and copious amounts of midnight oil and also water from Tullamore.
I have now seen the document which confirms this (a goldmine - PRONI Wills).
For the moment - am continuing to dig - Jane Bell had two brothers William Bell and Joseph Bell and their father was (also) Joseph Bell (which will now bring us into the late 1700's).
Location - the townlands of Lisnavaughog and Lissize and also Drumlough in the parish of Drumgath (all near Rathfriland).
A quick check through some sites hints that there could be some zillions of Bells there, so it may be a while before we can sort it out.
Unless somebody has the direct knowledge? You relatives have given us most of the info about the (easy) RECENT past. How about now getting down to some serious work?
Happy New Year to you all
Hamlets
Title: Re: O'Neill - Master of Lurgan Workhouse
Post by: hamlets on Wednesday 16 October 13 20:31 BST (UK)
Back another Bell Generation:-

Henry O'Neill and Jane Bell married 13 Nov 1835 in Rathfriland 3rd Presby. Church.
Jane's father was James Bell of Drumlough (abt 1778 - 5 April 1868). His Will is available on PRONI Website (a fantastic resource).
Henry's father was William O'Neill of Carrivemaclone (abt 1780 - abt 1860). Carrivemaclone is at the top of Newry Hill and in the parish of Killevy.
In 1836 William is recorded as having an Inn on the Dublin Road, Newry.
Another of William's sons was James O'Neill (abt 1807 - 19 July 1883)
Title: Re: O'Neill - Master of Lurgan Workhouse
Post by: LJBeastie on Thursday 01 January 15 13:46 GMT (UK)
Hello everyone! I'm new here and a bit overwhelmed by all of this information!

My great-grandmother was Annie Elizabeth O'Neil who, from what I've seen here, was one of the 4 daughters of James O'Neil. She was married twice, first to Henry Ernest Mellon and then to my great-grandfather James Marcus Beattie. The Ernest Mellon mentioned as one of the mourners at James B O’Neil’s funeral is her son, and my father has memories of visiting relatives by the name of Balmer back in the 1960s so I’m pretty sure we’re on the right track.

Until now we've had next to no information about Annie’s family so this talk of going back centuries is pretty amazing. The only things we have are a copy James Bell O’Neill’s will from 1925 (which I think lists his sisters’ married names if anyone is interested) and a newspaper cutting of the marriage of Mr Murray E. O’Neile and Miss Aileen Victoria Simpson in 1936:

poster has removed image

I would absolutely love if someone could send me details of the family tree and any photographs/stories/anything you might have relating to my great-grandmother and her family. My branch of the family is completely in the dark about all of it and would be over the moon to know more.

I look forward to chatting to you :)

Happy New Year!
Title: Re: O'Neill - Master of Lurgan Workhouse
Post by: LJBeastie on Saturday 03 January 15 17:39 GMT (UK)
Hello again,

Here are the names of the beneficiaries from James Bell O'Neill's will who I assume are his siblings:

Mr John Henry O'Neill
Mrs Sarah O'Neill
Mrs Beattie [nee Annie Elizabeth O'Neill]
Mrs McIlhenny
Mrs Blake

I hope that's a help to some of you :)
Title: Re: O'Neill - Master of Lurgan Workhouse
Post by: hamlets on Tuesday 20 January 15 23:43 GMT (UK)
To "LJBeastie"-
Re your reply No 53 on 1st January last, I have thought about your cri de coeur for information on distant relatives. My ancestry tree is the one that will provide many answers to your questions, having over 1200 persons, the result of over ten years toil. Up to now I have kept it "private". But it is now time to let go and let it drift for all in cyberspace.  But before I can do this I must 1) obtain the consent of two relatives who have provided much personal information and 2) review all information, remove living persons etc.
Target date? Say the end of February.
Regards,
hamlets

Title: Re: O'Neill - Master of Lurgan Workhouse
Post by: LJBeastie on Wednesday 21 January 15 14:35 GMT (UK)
To Hamlets,

Thank you so much! I'm completely stunned. Your answer is more than I could have possibly hoped for. Thank you for your generosity in offering to share the family tree you've put so much effort into. I know the rest of my branch of the family will be absolutely delighted to see it. Thank you again!

All the best,

LJ
Title: Re: O'Neill - Master of Lurgan Workhouse
Post by: hamlets on Sunday 31 December 17 15:58 GMT (UK)
James O'Neill (1850-1922) and Sarah Balmer (1846-1915) had (amongst others):-
John Henry O'N (1873-1949)
James Bell O'N (1888-1922)
William James O'N (1874-?)
Am trying to find details of William James...
Was he an undertaker (like his father) as reported in 1923 in Canal St, Newry?
Was he the undertaker who had an establishment in 1927 in Sugar Island, Newry?
Much appreciate if any denizens of Newry (or anywhere) can help.
And a Happy 2018 to You All!
Hamlets.
Title: Re: O'Neill - Master of Lurgan Workhouse
Post by: Greentossa on Friday 22 December 23 10:30 GMT (UK)
To Diggerdaisy,
I have just come across your reference to Peter O'Neill from Clonlum and would l love to know more. I think his daughter Anne was my 3 time great grand-mother. I have just joined RootsChat and if you are still active on it, I would love to hear from you
Title: Re: O'Neill - Master of Lurgan Workhouse
Post by: Greentossa on Thursday 25 January 24 13:00 GMT (UK)
To Hamlets,
I have just come across your correspondence with DiggerDaisy and reference to Peter O'Neill from Clonlum and would l love to know more. I think his daughter Anne was my 3 time great grand-mother. I have just joined RootsChat and if you are still active on it, I would love to hear from you
Title: Re: O'Neill - Master of Lurgan Workhouse
Post by: Greentossa on Thursday 25 January 24 13:03 GMT (UK)
To diggerdaisy, I'm posting again a request to know more about Peter O'Neil and his son John from Clonlum.  As this is my third post. After this I hope I'll be able to send you a PM. I would love to get in touch.
Title: Re: O'Neill - Master of Lurgan Workhouse
Post by: Kiltaglassan on Thursday 25 January 24 20:04 GMT (UK)

To diggerdaisy, I'm posting again a request to know more about Peter O'Neil and his son John from Clonlum. 

Diggerdaisy hasn't been online here since March 2016, but they may respond to your PM.

Good luck  :)