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Research in Other Countries => Europe => Topic started by: troymantis on Friday 26 June 09 22:13 BST (UK)
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Can anyone help me?
My 3xG Grandfather may be of French origins. His name was Joseph Lezart. He married Mary Abrahams in St James Church, Liverpool on 21 August 1865. He made his mark on the Marriage Certificate. I cannot verify that the name that the registrar wrote down on the certificate, is in fact the correct name.
The male witness at the wedding is the brother of the bride. The thinking is that the female witness may be somehow linked to Joseph. Her name as it appears on the certificate is Catherine/Catharine Tomkinson, I looked at lancashirebmd thinking that she may have come to this country sometime before Joseph and married here. I was hoping to find that her maiden name was Lezart.
There are no marriages for Tomkinson, only Tomlinson and the maiden names of the women concerned do not match Lezart. Joseph appears to have no relations in this country.
I have no idea when he came to England, but by the time that his daughter Josephine (my 2xG Grandmother) was born, he was recorded as deceased. There is no death in the name of Joseph Lezart in the GRO indexes. Therefore, the incident cannot be cross referenced.
I would like to ask how do I go about finding papers related to his becoming a British citizen? The problem lies for me, in the fact that he appears to have been illiterate and could not verify the spelling of his name. If records do exist, how would I know that they in fact relate to my ancestor?
I may be able to check his occupation, as there is a discrepancy on some certificates. He appears to be either a ship keeper or a shop keeper. As a shop keeper he must be in a trade directory. I am hoping that the Liverpool Records Office will have details.
Has anyone else experienced a problem such as this? Where there any steps that you took to resolve such difficulties? Please help, as I would be very grateful for some help.
Thank you ;D
troymantis
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I looked on Freebmd at all Josephs who died in Lancashire between Mar 1866 and June 1867, and as you say, none have a name remotely like Lezart.
But there is a Joseph Unknown aged 20 who died in Liverpool during the Dec Q 1866. :-\ Perhaps whoever registered his death had no idea whatsoever how to say or spell his name :-\ :-\
Alternatively, he could have died elsewhere in UK or even back in France or not died atall, but just cleared off!
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I know! I thought that he had done a runner too :D
Can I just ask, as Mary's name was Abrahams is there a possibility that she was Jewish? I understand that both her and Joseph were married in a Church of England ceremony, but I've just googled Jewish surnames and found the following site: http://www.avotaynu.com/csi/csi-home.htm
From this site I have just found out that the name Lezart is in fact Jewish. Is this something for me to 'work' on? Will the records office in Liverpool have papers related to this?
Thanks for any advice that you can give
troymantis
PS Thank you Alpine for your help :)
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I don't really think he did a runner!! - Mary did call the baby Josephine after all.
My ancestors were Catholic, but at that time several married in C of E churches. In the early 1800's only C of E weddings were valid, but I'm not sure when that changed.
I suggest you repost on the Lancashire board, because someone will know what holdings the L'pool Record Office have. You could also google L'pool record office - they probably have a list online.
Good luck with this one - looks like you may need it!
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alpinecottage
My mistake ;D I must have misunderstood you ;D ;D ;D
Thanks for all your help. I will follow your advice and go on the Lancashire boards.
I agree! I need a miracle :D
troymantis
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Jewish people and Quakers were exempt from the CoE requirement, and once civil registration started you could marry in any church (subject to them registering with the authorities, which some small congregations might not have). You could also marry in the office alone without a church marriage (often done for mixed-religion marriages).
Does the marriage certificate say "Married in the (Parish Church/Church of St. James) according to the rites and ceremonies of the Established Church?"
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Yes, it reads "Married in the Church of St James according to the Rites and Ceremonies of the Established Church, by --------- or after Banns by me, W B Stewart ??? Off ???"
I can't read those bits!
troymantis ;D
PS Thanks for your help
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Can you tell us some more of the details from the marriage certificate please?
1. Ages of bride and groom
2. Names and occupations of fathers
Justin
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Have you tried a simple google search for Lezart and Liverpool?
A Steve Murdoch (is that you?) seems to have traced a Lezart family from Malta to Liverpool.
Abrahams was indeed a common enough Jewish surname. However, many families assimilated and converted, so maybe her father (or even fg) was already Christian. Censuses records show (apparently) that she was the daughter of William and Anne Abrahams.
Where did you come across the suggestion that Lezart may be a Jewish surname? Nobody on JewishGen is researching that surname.
Justin
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Hello Justin,
Here is the information that you requested. Joseph's father is called Joseph, and he is a Farmer. Mary's father is called John and he is a Shipwright. Bride and Groom are "Full Age."
No, I am not SM but I am in email contact with him. The 'fact' that Joseph came from Malta, has been handed down the generations as oral history. SM and another email contact, both tell me that older members of their families have told them this, but that they don't have any hard facts to back this up.
I found a website which allowed me to search for a name in the database. I thought that I had found the name Lezart, but to make sure, I emailed a man from the website. When he replied, he told me that the name does not appear, but that some variations like Lezard do. He informed me that Familysearch.org has a high volume of the name Lezart, which appears in Canada only. He also said that Ancestry.com has a few Lezarts, again in Canada.
He wrote that, "It is likely that the name Lezart is a variation of some longer name." ???
troymantis :)
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You've not got it easy.
The LDS site (familysearch.org) does not really have a high volume; a few in early 17th century northern France and 19 Germans (!!) Methodists in Ontario.
In German a final 't' and final 'd' sound identicial, so you probably should expand the search to include Lezard.
Justin
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JustinL,
Thank you :-*
troymantis