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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Northumberland => Topic started by: Gen List Lass on Saturday 04 July 09 21:08 BST (UK)
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Tried to find Sinkers Row, Horton on old maps with no success. Where exactly were the houses in Horton circa 1871?
Baffled
Gen in NBL
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Dont know if this will help but have a look at http://communities.northumberland.gov.uk/Blyth_C15.htm
A plan of Blyth from the Northumberland Communities site
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Greenwood's Map of Northumberland (1828) that is
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Many thanks Bopsey, I was looking in the wrong direction! It is east of the church, I've even found there was once a castle too!
Gen in NBL
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hi
i was told that the field opposite the church was where the pitmens houses were once but now gone.
Steve
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Steve - there might be some truth in that. If you look at the field on google map aerial view, there are some strange dark marks parallel to the road facing the church. Could be the foundations of the old houses. We need Tony and his Time Team geo-fizz!
Gen in NBL
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hi Gen
you're right,just had a look on google earth and there are some lines in the field,but that might be my imagination running wild.I had a look on the historical maps on this http://gis.durham.gov.uk/website/interMAP/viewer.htm but couldn't see any houses.Maybe someone else can find them?
Steve
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Hi Gen
Just looked at6 the enniumerators description for 1881 and it reads so..
The whole of the township of Horton including the Forster Pit Houses and sinkers Row. High and low Horton including the Sextons House in churchyard. Milh***s farm. Mickle gatehouse, Blacksmiths Cottage, North Moor Farm and cottages, The astlet Arms inn and other houses in North Moor Edge and Albion Inn Shank House
Might have been that they were away from main part of village
Bopsey
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Hi bopsey
I've never found the enumerators pages on ancestry.com census but I do have the dusty old CD's of the census somewhere that does show them? Where did you find yours?
One of the children was born at Forsters Pit so that fits in well with the area.
Thanks Bopsey
Gen in NBL
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Horton is not a village, it is a Township, and the houses for New Delaval Colliery were in the township. If you go to http://gis.durham.gov.uk/website/interMAP/viewer.htm and enter the coordinates 428910, 580095 it will centre the 1919-1926 map on Sinkers Row.
Stan
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Just to add that Sinkers Row is also on the 1951-1959 map. :)
Stan
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Thanks Stan, spot on!
Someone told me Horton was a vanished village, that put me on the wrong trail.
Gen in NBL
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Horton was a Parish comprised of five "townships"
West Hartford, East Hartford, Bebside, Cowpen and Horton. As one would expect the Parish Church lay within the "township" area of Horton. *
Within the area of Horton Township there were a few communities named Horton ( High Horton, close to the boundary with East Hartford township, Horton close to the church and Low Horton)
After the sinking of the Forster Pit, c1860, then later the Richard Pit, c1870, just to the east of the Low Horton community, a new community grew up around the pit shafts. The first houses were Sinkers Row. (erected for the sinkers who dug the big black hole, then moved on)
Initially called , Seaton Delaval, Forster Pit, after the owners of Seaton Delaval
mines, the community became known as New Delaval.
( My Ireland-born ggf John Gallagher , married Ireland-born Mary Maley in Blyth in 1864, He gave his address as "The Forster Colliery, Horton ", she "Hartley Colliery")
At one stage the mine owners built a short railway line from Seaton (Old) Delaval to the pit head, to train-in miners from Seaton Delaval etc, as there was insufficient housing in New Delaval.
Eventually the colliery had, after Sinker's Row, Double Row, South Row, North Row, Middle Row and New Row.
Sinkers Row would have been close to the Golf Club club house. The site of South Row is today's Plessey Road.
My ggm's brother Patrick Maley/Malley lived at 5, then 2 Sinkers Row from 1871 census.
Gen mentioned the Time Team... I dont know if in jest or seriousness ?
In the past, Blyth Family History Society, were discussing making a bid to have the TT to come and find the " Lost Village of Horton". I don't know whether they went through with the plan or not.
I was born in Bebside Colliery ( village) ,about 2 miles, north-west of New Delaval, in 1941 and my and others stamping ground, after we got fed up playing in the middens and up the pit heaps, was the open fields from the River Blyth to line of old Plessey waggonway/Plessey.
In my time along what is now B1505 road , there were several groups of say four-five dwellings , some in use, many abandonedand derelict. Other houses were dotted around east of this line. Although not experts, we just called all these places just Horton, in relation to say the church.
*In 1861 the whole of Horton Parish contained 6787 inhabitants. Horton Township held 368. ( East Hartford 13, some township that, West Hartford 62, Bebside 53- and Cowpen "township" 6291- Bebside Colliery with it 1000 folk lay not in Bebside T but in Cowpen T- as did much of town of Blyth)
Please excuse my length, but it is "roots"
Michael Dixon
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Hi again Gen
How to find Enumeration district descriptions on Ancestry
1. Go to an image page on Ancestry
2. There is a string above the image like this…
3. You are here: Search > Census > UK Census Collection > 1881 England Census > Northumberland > Horton > District 10
4. Click on Horton
5. Choose the district you were wanting…(Sometimes theses a list of lots but in Horton’s case just one)
6. Click on ‘View description of enumeration district’
Voila!
PS. If anyone knows of other ways of getting to this let me know
By the way this has been fascinating stuff…I’ll have to take a trip down there to have a look at the site sometime!
Bopsey
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Hello Bopsey.
That worked well! Many thanks, all the years I've been using Ancestry I didn't know THAT.
I went down to Horton and Seghill churches yesterday, took photos and did some headstone perusing. Tried to get to the site of Sinkers Row but the road just petered out in a farmyard. A motorway cuts right through it so access is difficult. The land has returned to either fields or under the Blyth golf course. Just like in the 1850's according to the old maps.
Seghill church took a bit of finding, it's not actually in Seghill but a bit north and off a tiny sliproad off a new roundabout. The Sunday service was just finishing as I arrived so took the opprtunity to slip in and take photos of the altar and font to go with the family tree.
Gen in NBL
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Hello Michael Dixon
Thanks for your local knowledge. Your Patrick Malley would have been living next door to Robert Campbell on the 1871 census!
Dont think Time Team would get a warm reception at Blyth Golf Course, if they wanted to dig up any greens:-) but at least now I know where Sinkers Row WAS and have found it on old maps.
Gen in NBL
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Gen,
Tackle it from the Blyth end. Up Plessey Road ( westward) , cross the railway line, into continuation of Plessey Rd. On the right (north) hand side of the street, the last housing is Beatrice Avenue formed into a square. The top (north west) corner gives access to path/roadway that leads to golf club house)
Sinkers Row ran roughly ( S-E to N-W) along that road .
Michael
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If you look at the present day map the position of Sinkers Row is marked by a track in the NW corner of the golf course, off the track to Low Horton Farm. You can get to it from Plessey Road in New Delaval.
Stan
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Michael
Once again your knowledge of local history makes me glad I joined RC.
Gary
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Gen
You may find the following of interest...
The Newcastle Weekly Chronicle ran a series of articles from Oct 1872 to April 1874 entitled "OUR COLLIERY VILLAGES"
On 3rd May 1873 edition, their 59th was on "NEWSHAM and NEW DELAVAL"
The reporter roamed the adjacent colliery villages on the same day. About one third of the total report is on New Delaval.
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OUR COLLIERY VILLAGES
3 May 1873
XXIX Newsham and New Delaval
New Delaval is not far from Newsham, but the colliery belongs to another company, which also owns Seaton Delaval, or Old Delaval Colliery.
New Delaval first commenced operations about 14 years ago and is now one of the largest and most completely appointed collieries in the county. Two shafts have been sunk near each other, one of which is entirely devoted to the working of the yard seam, while the other descends to a " lower deep ?????" and is used for working the lower seams.
The engine houses are of the most massive description, and the pit gearing, like that of Barrington, is light and elegant, being made of iron.
About 350 or 360 hewers are employed here, but as there are only about 200 cottages built as yet, large numbers of men and boys rerside at Old Delaval, which is some three or four miles away. A train of carriages however is run between the two places several times a day, at such hours as may be convenient for the men going to or returning from work.
cont.
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Michael Dixon
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New Delaval Colliery Village
Newcastle Weekly Chronicle 3 May 1873
continued...
" The miners houses at New Delaval are built in long rows, which are very wide apart, so that, although there are no ash pits in the place, the ash heaps are piled up at a respectable distance from the doors.
Delaval has the advantage over Newsham in more pespects than one, for the first place the houses are much newer and loftier, in the second place, there is well at the high end of the rows, which keeps up all the year round a capital supply of the most beautiful water and in the third place, Delaval has an excellent and well-attended colliery school, which Newsham has not.
Newsham however has privies, whereas at Delaval the village schoolmaster is the only man sufficiently refined to be allowed such a luxury.
One of the Delaval "raws" is a double one, but it only contains 30 houses, which is a very small proportion of double houses for such large number of men. Between the double-houses and the single or two-roomed houses there is an intermediate sized "raw", in which the cottages have each three rooms - two up the ladder and one down.
cont
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Our Colliery Villages 3 May 1873
New Delaval
cont.
The fine open situation of New Delaval has placed a considerable quantity of land at the disposal of the owners and each cottage is most liberally supplied with (a) kitchen garden. Back-yards such as are attached to most of the houses in large towns, are unknown in most of our colliery villages, but there are many indications , not only at New Delaval, but at every place we have visited, of a desire on the part of the pitman to have something of the sort.
This desire is shown in various ways, but chiefly by the erection of low wooden pallings around that part of the space between the two adjoining pantries which belong to the respective tenants. These erections are all home-made ones, and some of the places of carpentry which one fails in with are of the very roughest description, while some look as smart and trim as though they were the work of professional hands.
The news-room at New Delaval is well attended, and it has no rival on the spot to contend with in the shape of a public-house, for there is not one nearer than the Black Diamond at Newsham.
The Wesleyans have a monopoly of the religious teaching at Delaval, and the chapel of the denomination is a most respectable, not to say stylish building.
It also has the great privilege of being allowed to use the colliery gas at nights during the dark season, and on service nights when it is fullu lighted up, it serves as a sort of beacon for miles around.
Having completed our tour of inspection at Delaval, we return again to our strating point at the (railway) junction just as the shades of evening begin to fall and the towering ship masts in Blyth harbour become more and more shadowy and indistinct. Our friend, the station master ( ... Newsham Station)
who by the way has the snuggest little house in the district, is again to the fore, full of energy and as the train from Blyth glides up to the platform, he is there with his voice and never failing formula " Newsham, all change here, Newsham. all change here"
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M.Dixon
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Footnote. My Grandparents and several lines of my family lived in Sinkers Row and the other pit rows mentioned in New Delaval.
I lived in Delaval Gardens and played around the chapels and on the pit heaps as Michael Dixon did. Delaval Gardens were newer properties just below where the old pit rows used to be. Part of where the rows used to be was used as a timber yard to stack the pit props for the pit at New Delaval. Great fun for mischievous lads to play and make "forts" in and get chased by the watchman.
Rob
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Thank you Wilkinson. Always nice to have more info on a subject.
Happy New Year
Gen in NBL
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With respect to Sinkers Row I have overlaid a couple of images.
Near the middle left hand side it says F.P. (just under New Delaval Colliery, Forster & Richard Pits) and the 8 rectangles to the left were Sinkers Row.
North is at the top of the image.
There is a public footpath around most sides of the golfcourse, so don't wander off.
Cheers
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If you go to Peter Loud's website . ie www.peteloud.co.uk you can view a large scale map/plan of the pit rows.
Go to "Photographs by Peter Loud"
His photos from around the world will come up.
Scroll down until you reach "Now check my UK photos" click this.
Find and click on"Old School Photos, Blyth, Northumberland"
Scroll through these and you will come to the plan/map showing the pit rows in 1937. I lived at 59, Delaval Gardens . My house backed onto the tennis courts of the Miner's Welfare Park. Peter lived across the back street on Plessey Road at the bottom of the block. He is younger than me and played more with my younger brother. Peter and my brother are on the photos.
He also has some good photos of Northumberland.
Unfortunately Sinkers Row is just off the plan to the left.
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Hello ArtyM
Sorry for late reply, been away - twice!
Many thanks for your excellent map/s.
Can you tell me how you overlaid them? This would be a very handy genealogy tool.
Gen in NBL
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Thank you Wikinson for the link to more maps. Sorry for late reply- been away - twice!
Gen in NBL
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Ahh! those last few messages brought back a lot of memories of the 1950s. Sadly I live like a recluse in Milton Keynes and never have the chance to meet and talk to people from those 'old' days.
Wilkinson doesn't metion that his family had an indoor toilet & bath and his father had a car. I think it was the only car down Delaval Gardens. Another neighbour across the back lane in Delaval Gardens had a car for a while, although I can't remember seeing it out of the garage.
We had an ootside netty doon the yard. My dad had a bicycle. I remember that for a while he cycled over to Bedlington to work at a diesel power station. He later worked at Bates then at the power station.
I remember how the miners received free coal which was dropped in the back lane, and how a couple of bob, or a part load of coal, could be earned by shoveling the coal into the coal shed through the little square hatch onto the back lane.
Wilkinson refers to a website of mine, I suggest that you check out,
Blyth, http://www.peterloud.co.uk/photos/Northumberland/Blyth/Blyth_1.html (http://www.peterloud.co.uk/photos/Northumberland/Blyth/Blyth_1.html)
School photos. http://www.peterloud.co.uk/photos/Northumberland/School_Photos/School_Photos.html (http://www.peterloud.co.uk/photos/Northumberland/School_Photos/School_Photos.html)
It is facinating to be reminded of life in those days.
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Yes Peter we did EVENTUALLY have an indoor toilet and bath but only after many years using the "outside netty doon the yard" when I was a tot. My Dad built an extension onto the main living room out into the back yard for this and eventually his small garage when he eventually bought a second hand Ford Popular.
My Grandad wouldn't let my Dad go down the pit when he left school so he worked on the Co-op milk carts. Then he was called up to serve in the Army and after training and serving for two years in Ireland he landed in Normandy just a day or two after D Day and fought with his Regiment through France, Belgium, The Ardennes, Germany etc. to Hamburg - another two years or so. After the War he went back to the Co-op but decided to take on a Co-op Insurance round. He cycled for several years collecting insurance from Blyth, Cowpen, Seaton Delaval, New Hartley, the Sluice, Cramlington. etc. Eventually he saved enough money to build the toilet and bathroom and buy a small car. I remember him digging out the extension foundations and labouring for the brickie. The car came later when I was a teenager and I learnt to drive in it. If you look on page 35 of "Blyth Memories" Part 3 Jim Harland did a piece on my Dad entitled "Milkman, Mayor and War Hero". I'm very proud of him.
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An excellent reply.
Although I knew your family better than most, because I was a few years younger than you I never realised the hardships you had gone though. I never knew that your father had been a milkman in his earlier days. It makes his achievements more admirable.
What a wealth of unspoken local history there is. I suppose similar things could be said about many people who died un recorded.
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The miners - free coal - no way, it was concessionary coal, i.e. at a reduced price, i.e. staff discount or whatever.