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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => London and Middlesex => Topic started by: Hazel17 on Sunday 05 July 09 19:52 BST (UK)
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I have a census entry for the 1881 census RG number:RG11 Piece:506Folio:17 Page:28. It says as the address 6, (Grundy St), Grove St, Poplar. I am on FindMyPast so I can't check the image.
Does anyone with local knowledge know which street it is or was Grove St known as Grundy St? I can find a Grundy St in Poplar on modern maps but not a Grove St.
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Hi
Looking at the entry - I would say Grundy St was part of Grove St or ran off Grove St
I'm not entirely convinced it's Grove St - looking at other images for the same address it looks like a TH at the end
Was there a Groth St??
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Hazel,
Though I'm not sure if either of these will help in your quest, they might come in handy one day:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/03pv/
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/hitch/gendocs/lon-str.html
Another thing you may like to try is to check the neighbours on the 1881 census. You should eventually come across a landmark or a street that still exists today. This may give an indication of where your street used to be. I'm sure you know that many London streets have disappeared and many have been renamed.
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Ok I think I've found it! ;D
Well, it doesn't exist any more but I have an idea where it used to be. There were many more streets in the area than there are today. I think it was in the area where Flora Close is today. In fact I think Flora Close may have once run into Augusta Street. Grove St used to run north off Richard Street, which looks like it might now be called Ricardo Street. Ricardo Street is just north of and parallel with Grundy St. You can search for the streets here:
http://maps.google.co.uk/
So I think that Carole is correct in saying that your family lived at the Grundy Street end of Grove Street. I know that Grundy Street used to go further east and included what is now Brownfield Street.
I found Grove Street on this old map. There may well be better maps out there. This is awful to get around:
http://www.oldlondonmaps.com/stanfordpages/thamlets08c.html
Find the red lines where Upper Street and Sussex Street Market St intersect. On the right of the red line, the first street running parallel north south is Randall Street, then there is the tiny Randall Street Markets, then there is Grove Street (you can just see the 'ove' of Grove). The southern end of Grove Street runs into Grundy Street. You can just see the 'Gr' of Grundy.
As I said, although the map is excellent it is disorientating when you move from one part of the map to the next using the stupid arrows at the top of the map. Not very friendly which is a shame ... :-\
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Brilliant! ;D So we think the area exists now but not the actual street with the same houses? Always the way ! I will read this all properly later as I have only skim read - some boring paperwork to do now so will c ome back to look at all the links. Thanks everybody
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I've had a look at google maps and the oldlondon maps site and I wonder if it has been renamed as Bygrove St as it runs between Ricardo and Grundy Streets? Had a look on google street view too but it has been redeveloped.
Thanks for all the help on this.
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It looks very possible that Bygrove may have been Grove Street. Especially considering the fact that it looks like Richard has changed to Ricardo Street. Kindof makes sense.
Yes, it looks like the whole area was bulldozed - none of those miriad of small streets remain.
I followed the enumerators route of the 1881 census and the streets seemed to go on for ever - pages and pages of Grove Street residents. But looking at the area today, it's not very large so that small area must have been densely populated. The enumerator's walk included Reeve Street (which is two streets to the right of Grove streeet on the old map), Grand Street and Goodliffe Street (which I found yesterday on the old map somewhere - stupid thing, I can't find it today :-\)
Not sure if this will work, but here is a link to Booth's Poverty Map of the area, and it's fairly well to do:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/06n0/
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Hazel,
Having a closer look at the Booth Poverty Map, I think that you are correct that Grove Street is now Bygrove Street. It used to go further north up through what is now Cordelia Street as far as what is now Giraud Street.
Cordelia Street is Market Street on the old map.
I've just zoomed in a bit and notice that Booth's Map names the street as Bygrove Street .... :-\ I wonder if the name changed between the 1881 census and the 1898 poverty map? :-\
I will do some more digging ....
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Thanks Ruskie. :)Booth's Poverty Map is fascinating - it's a shame you can only see small area in detail at once. I have lots of Poplar addresses in the tree so I was having a good look around even though I'd looked before.
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There is a Grove Street on this map http://archivemaps.com/mapco/cross1861/cross32.htm
It is Bygrove Street in my Victorian A to Z dated 1888
Sylviaann
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I used to live near this area during the 60s, but the Grundy Street area always seemed to be modern housing. I remember that northwards from here to the Limehouse Cut were nearly all maisonettes and low rise flats, although I remember old buildings in Arcadia Street as I used to play in Barlett Park thereabouts. Strangely the Victorian housing in the area to the east of the NL railway lasted longest, I still remember Victorian terraces in streets long disappeared. Progress being progress, even some of the high rise flats of my youth no longer exist now.
Thanks Ruskie for the link to those 1872 maps, a bit early to show the full extent of the streets as I knew them, but very interesting nonetheless. Compare and contrast with this http://www.mernick.org.uk//elhs/maps/bp1882.htm and the more modern http://www.mernick.org.uk//elhs/maps/bp1952.htm
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That's a much better map Sylviaann. Perhaps not quite so much detail as the other one, but a lot clearer and more user friendly. I notice that some of the street names are different again. Yes, so Bygrove and Grove are one and the same. Thank goodness for that. ;D
Paul, if you look at Google streetview you can see some of the modern housing you mention. Bartlett Park didn't exist in that early map - it was housing if my memory serves me correctly.
I am wondering if the area suffered bomb damage in the war, hence the extensive rebuild.
Hazel, I think you can enlarge that Booth's map. I also think there is a larger version somewhere else. I will try to find it.
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I remembered the area was redeveloped as the Lansbury Estate, there's an interesting, albeit wordy write-up here http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=46490
Ruskie, I've been looking at the StreetView, fascinating to walk in this area again. All the streets, houses and shops that have disappeared, even in my lifetime. There was a lot of bomb damage , as you say (near to the docks etc.) we all used to play on the resulting 'debris'. I love looking at all these old maps, pity there's very few photos of these 'backstreets'.
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I love comparing the old and the new maps - it's fascinating. (And I don't have any personal attachment to the area). I agree that it is sad that there are so few photos of the old streets. I suppose many of them were poorer housing so nobody thought it worth photgraphing.
By contrast, there are some fabulous photographs of old Liverpool streets which were photographed before the houses were demolished - very sad. All character lost ...
I will read up on the Lansbury Estate now ... :)
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Thank you for all the interest in my question. It is a shame no photos exist.
Looking at the maps I have noticed other Poplar Sts that are in my tree - Lochangar, Oban, Leven. I have also noticed that very near Leven Road there is a Gas Company. My great-great grandfather lived in that road in 1891 and he was later a gas fitter - I wonder if the company was there in 1891 and if he possibly worked there? One to think about for me I think.
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Thank you for all the interest in my question. It is a shame no photos exist.
I found a token photo of some houses in Bygrove Street.. http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=46593 right at the bottom of the page.
Looking at the maps I have noticed other Poplar Sts that are in my tree - Lochangar, Oban, Leven. I have also noticed that very near Leven Road there is a Gas Company.
Nearly all the streets hereabouts were named with a Scottish theme. The Gasholders in Leven Road were quite a landmark in the area. I knew the road well as the local bus station/garage used to be at the top end. The gas company was North Thames Gas I think, ships used to unload coal in the small docks on the River Lea behind the works.
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Paul I enjoyed reading the previous link about the redevelopment of the Lansbury Estate. It seems many of the same questions existed post war about redevelopment as today when redevelopment occurs. It seems that although there was some bombing in the area, that this redevelopment went further and many of the old terraces must have been destroyed which is a shame. As you said, it has been redeveloped again - so they mustn't have got it right the first time. ;) Interesting article.
Good to see some picures from the area! :D As expected the houses in Bygrove Street are quite substantial and desirable. What a lovely street it must have been before the bombing and "redevelopment". A lot nicer than what is there now ... (sorry Paul ;)). If only they hadn't messed with it ....
Hazel, I believe many workers lived close to their place of work (and walked to work) so it's highly likey your gggrandfather worked at the gas works (if it was there at that time). A great deal is to be learned from looking at old maps.
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A photo - how brilliant Paul!! ;D Thank you
One day when I have time on my hands (summer holidays coming soon as I am a teacher) I will have to see if there are any records of employees that may have survived from the gas works. He is just a fitter on that census when he lived in Leven Road but seeing as he was a gas fitter 10 years later it's not too much of a stretch.
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Hi, searching for something else, I have just come across this Website and signed up, my great grandmother lived at 63 Grundy St in the late 19th and 1st half of the 20th century, my mother (still going at 90) well remembers visiting there.
My great grandfather was a watchmaker at 11 Grundy St.
They were Robert Adam and Phoebe Burrows
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Hi, thought I had already sent this but am not very familiar with type of communication. forgive me if this is a duplicate message
My Great grandmother Phoebe Burrows lived at 63 GrundySt. M Mother (90) says he visited her there often. My GG was there in one or other of the houses in the street from about 1878 to 1948.
Her husband Robert Adam Burrows was a watchmaker at 11 Grundy St. according to the 1881 census.
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Hi All
Just stumbled upon this site, my mother (Gladys WEST) was born in Augusta Street in 1921 and lived there until it was blitzed around 1940. I though that this link > http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=46489 < would be interesting to you, as it describes the history of the Poplar area development from its earliest beginnings as a green site .
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Hi Aerosmith
Welcome to rootschat! :)
Thank you for that link - it looks interesting, I shall give it a good read.
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Welcome to rootschat from me too Aerosmith. :)
Fascinating article.
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Grove Street was Bygrove Street.
Grundy Street was shortened in the 1960s I believe.
I believe my Grand Father lived at 50 Grundy Street in 1891.
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Regarding Grove Street, Poplar
I have an 1862 map of London and I can tell you that Grove Street used to run South from Flint St., which is one of the streets mentioned in the enumeration description of the 1881 census, all the way to the East India Dock Road. It forked at the northern boundary, and its eastern split was called Randall Street. It then intersected Flint St., Gloucester, Market [today Cordelia], Richard, then Grundy Streets, before ending at EID Road [there are many other small closes and mews streets with which it intersects. On today's map, you will see it correspond to the following: North end = Augusta Street; a gap, then it's Flora Close, before ending at EID Road at Annabel Close.