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Research in Other Countries => Canada => Canada Lookup Request => Topic started by: Flickgirl on Monday 13 July 09 00:15 BST (UK)
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Hi Everyone,
I am looking for ship records for the Gemmell family who emigrated to Brandon in Canada from Ayrshire in Scotland some time between 1901 and 1914. The family consisted of:
Thomas Gemmell (born 1852 Glasgow, Lanarkshire)
Janet Gemmell nee Ferguson (born 1852 Dunlop, Ayrshire)
Ann Gemmell (born 1883 Glasgow, Lanarkshire)
Mary Bisset Gemmell (born 1885 Glasgow, Lanarkshire)
Margaret (F?) Gemmell (born 1888 Ayrshire)
James Ferguson Gemmell (born 1891 Stewarton, Ayrshire)
Janet Ferguson Gemmell (born 1892 Stewarton, Ayrshire)
I have the family on the 1901 census in Ayrshire and in the Henderson Directories at the Brandon library it says that Thomas Gemmell born 1852 was a book keeper for the gas company in Brandon in 1914. Any help greatly appreciated.
Regards
Michelle
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Not what you're asking for but you can search the Brandon Cemetery online
http://www.brandon.ca/main.nsf/Pages+by+ID/428
Your can find the graves for
Thomas Gemmell d. 24 March 1918 at age 67 (the age is from Manitoba Vital Index website)
James Ferguson Gemmell b. 1891/03/11 d. at 42 1933/10/14 at Hamilton Ont
Janet Ferguson Gemmell b. 1893 Berth, Scotland d. 1978/05/13 at Brandon
Margaret Ferguson Gemmell b. 1888 Ayrshire d. 1974/12/21 Sunset Haven Nursing Home
Janet Gemmell Ferguson b. 1853/07/30 Dunlop, Scotland d. 1950/07/28 at Brandon age 96
Debbie
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Hi Debbie,
Thanks for that but we already have all the information from the Tombstone in the cemetery - it's been a great resource!
Regards
Michelle
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Here is a link to the WWI attestation papers of James Ferguson Gemmell at Library and Archives Canada:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/06p1/
There are instructions at the link on how to order a copy of the file. The cost depends on the size of the file.
It looks like the family didn't arrive together. There is a Gemmell family that consisted of Thos (60, bookkeeper), Janet (59), Mary (27, typist) and Janet (20, domestic) who departed from Glasgow on 28 Feb 1913 on the Letitia and arrived in Saint John, New Brunswick on 12 Mar 1913. Their final destination is listed as Brandon. Unfortunately I can't find the incoming passenger list at LAC. The outgoing passenger list is at Find My Past.
Jacquie
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A*try has them indexed as Gem*Hell living at 2319 Princess. (1916 census)
Brandon! My home town. :) :) :)
Maureen
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Hi Maureen,
Thanks for the information; I don't know what I'm doing wrong but I just can't find that record on A**y. Is it on the 1916 Canada Census of Manitoba, Saskatchewan, and Alberta?
Regards
Michelle
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It looks like the family didn't arrive together. There is a Gemmell family that consisted of Thos (60, bookkeeper), Janet (59), Mary (27, typist) and Janet (20, domestic) who departed from Glasgow on 28 Feb 1913 on the Letitia and arrived in Saint John, New Brunswick on 12 Mar 1913. Their final destination is listed as Brandon. Unfortunately I can't find the incoming passenger list at LAC. The outgoing passenger list is at Find My Past.
Jacquie
Hi Jacquie,
Thanks very much for that - it's good to finally have a year that they arrived in at least. Is findmypast the only place to get this record? (I don't have a subscription there but do have one at A!) I'm assuming it would be the incoming passenger list that would have the most information though anyway. I've never had to look for Canadian passenger lists before - are they similar to US ones in that people have to give the name of a contact in the country and name of next of kin back in the UK? It's a shame if that's lost.
I'm surprised that James Ferguson Gemmell and Margaret Gemmell seem to have come seperately - we already have the attestation papers for James from 1916 but thanks for going to the trouble of getting the link for me anyway. Perhaps James came over first - hmm always more questions thrown up!
Regards
Michelle
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Hi Michelle,
Yes,it's on that census. Do a search for Janet F Gem* . It should pop up OK.
They're also listed on the incoming passengers as PENNELL-in case you're looking.
Maureen
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The passenger list is available at Ancestry so I'm not sure why it isn't at LAC. The family is listed as Pennnell (with 3 "n") in the index at Ancestry and when you see the actual image you will see that it does look like that.
Jacquie
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:-[ :-[ :-[ OOPS! I missed that third "n" in PENNNELL!!
Maureen
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Yes,it's on that census. Do a search for Janet F Gem* . It should pop up OK.
They're also listed on the incoming passengers as PENNELL-in case you're looking.
Hi Maureen,
Thanks for that - popped up immediately! It seems my guess that James perhaps came over first may be right as from the census it says he emigrated in 1911 and the others in 1913 so if I could find a ship record for him that might tell me who was initially in Canada. It seems that Ann, Mary and Margaret are elsewhere by this point though.
Regards
Michelle
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The passenger list is available at Ancestry so I'm not sure why it isn't at LAC. The family is listed as Pennnell (with 3 "n") in the index at Ancestry and when you see the actual image you will see that it does look like that.
Jacquie
Hi Jacquie,
Thanks again - I've found this record now. Would there be naturalisation documents for them as there are for immigrants to the US?
Regards
Michelle
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There is a James Gemmell on the Athenia which arrived in Saint John on 14 Mar 1911. His final destination was listed as Glenella, Manitoba which is about 135 km from Brandon.
Regarding naturalization, they would already have been considered citizens. From LAC:
From 1763 until the Canadian Citizenship Act came into force on January 1, 1947, people born in Canada were all British subjects. Since immigrants born in Great Britain and the Commonwealth were already British subjects, they had no need to become naturalized or to obtain British citizenship in Canada.
Jacquie
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Hi Jacquie,
Thanks for the naturalisation information - I thought that might be the case. I've found the James Gemmell record too now - it's pretty hard to read though! Do you think it says his occupation is farming? I also think it says payment is pending for his voyage but it's a bit confusing. Thanks for the Glenella name - I was having a hard time working that out. Do the records at LAC give more information than the ship manifests then? Would there be one for James? Thanks.
Regards
Michelle
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I think I've also found a border crossing record for James crossing from Canada into the US in 1923 - again it's blurry and very hard to read :D I do think it is lists mother Janet in Brandon as next of kin though which makes me think it must be him (I can't work out what he's going over the border for though!)
Regards
Michelle
Edit: In fact there are several border crossing records; it seems he visited the US several times.
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There is a Maggie F Gemmell (24, nurse) on the Saturnia which arrived in Saint John on 13 Mar 1912. Her destination was Franklin, Manitoba which is about 65 km from Brandon (almost halfway between Glenella and Brandon).
Regarding James, I believe the payment pending notation is in regardings to the British Bonus that would be paid to the agency that brought him over. Edited to add: Yes, I think it says farming for an occupation.
I can't seem to find Ann. Is it possible she married before emigrating?
Jacquie
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Michelle, there is a border crossing document from US to Canada for a James F Gemmell dated 3 May 1929. It indicates he was born in Stourton, Scotland (likely supposed to be Stewarton) and had been in Canada from 1911 to 1923. His occupation was bookkeeper. Bonus information... it refers to his closest relative in the UK being Mrs. A. McLaughlan, Beith, Ayrshire, Scotland. I took a look at ScotlandsPeople and there is a marriage for Annie Gemmell to Andrew McLachlan in Beith in 1913 (I didn't view the image).
Edited to add: The border crossing documents for James going to the US confirm that he was on the Athenia in 1911.
Jacquie
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Also at SP, there is a death for Annie McLachlan, other surname Gemmell, that was registered in Beith in 1974. Annie is listed as being 91. The registration can't be viewed so you would have to order the certificate to confirm it is her.
There is also a possible death for Andrew McLachlan in Beith in 1955. He was 73. That registration can be viewed at SP.
Jacquie
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Margaret Ferguson Gemmell crossed Dec 1914 at Pembina North Dakota. Her address was Brandon, Manitoba, her sister, Annie McLaughlin's address was given and a destination of Plainfield Illinois.
Debbie
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Hi Jacquie,
Thanks for all the help - you managed to find a lot there! Anne is on the Brandon tombstone as Anne McLachlan (died 9th Sept 1974) so I just assumed she also came to Canada, married there and died there but as the names of the whole family are on the tombstone perhaps she was just added as well even although she died in Scotland? Quite strange. Scottish records are my forte and I can't see any way Annie would be registered in Beith if she died in Canada so that seems the only sensible explanation. Unless, of course, she did come to Canada and the Beith death is someone else but it seems unlikely in light of what you've found. Thanks so much.
Regards
Michelle
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Margaret Ferguson Gemmell crossed Dec 1914 at Pembina North Dakota. Her address was Brandon, Manitoba, her sister, Annie McLaughlin's address was given and a destination of Plainfield Illinois.
Debbie
Thanks for this - it definitely proves Annie married in Scotland and it looks like she remained there.
Regards
Michelle
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I don't think it is really common but it also isn't unusual for the deaths of an entire family to be listed on a memorial whether they died there or not. I've come across that type of memorial more than once with my own lines.
Jacquie
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I don't think it is really common but it also isn't unusual for the deaths of an entire family to be listed on a memorial whether they died there or not. I've come across that type of memorial more than once with my own lines.
Jacquie
Thanks Jacquie - I'm convinced this is what has happened in this case and it makes sense as even a baby Thomas who died in Scotland in 1896 is listed on the tombstone (I'd forgotten about him!)
Regards
Michelle
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Michelle, if you go in the Newspaper & Periodicals section of Ancestry and do a search for Margaret Gemmell you will find an article about her death in the Brandon Sun dated 23 Dec 1974 and an obituary in the Brandon Sun dated 24 Dec 1974. There were 74 hits when I searched her name in the Brandon Sun. I didn't look at them all but the ones I did look at (about 10) were her. There were also mentions of her sister Jennie Ferguson Gemmell in many of the articles. Most of the articles were related to their involvement with various organizations.
Jacquie
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Michelle, if you go in the Newspaper & Periodicals section of Ancestry and do a search for Margaret Gemmell you will find an article about her death in the Brandon Sun dated 23 Dec 1974 and an obituary in the Brandon Sun dated 24 Dec 1974.
Hi Jacquie,
Thanks for the tip - I'll have a look at these.
Regards
Michelle
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http://www.archivescanada.ca/english/search/ItemDisplay.asp?sessionKey=999999999_142&l=0&lvl=1&v=0&coll=1&itm=227777&rt=1&bill=1
http://www.archivescanada.ca/english/search/ItemDisplay.asp?sessionKey=999999999_142&l=0&lvl=1&v=0&coll=1&itm=227777&rt=1&bill=1
Beautiful window
Debbie
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Just found out about your request from a cousin. My husband is a descendant of Thomas and Janet. His grandfather was Andrew ( Jessie) I am on Heritage and Ancestry with Gemmell Family trees. Would be glad to help if you still need some info ! Maggeb