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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Sussex => Topic started by: kerryb on Sunday 27 February 05 13:06 GMT (UK)

Title: Brickwall in Sussex - Helena Lorraine Lovekin
Post by: kerryb on Sunday 27 February 05 13:06 GMT (UK)
Hi I have a brickwall I cannot break down and would like some help.

I am looking for my gr gr grandmother.

The true information I have is as follows:
marriage cert -
Helena Lorraine Lovekin married James Frederick Samuel Harmer on 13 Oct 1889 at parish church, Bodle Street Green, Sussex.  She was 22, abode was Bodle Street Green.  Her father was John Lovekin, Labourer.  Witnesses were Edwin and Emily Haffenden.

Thereafter 1881, 1891 and 1901 census have her as Lorraine born 1867 in Mountfield or Battle, (my guess is that Mountfield would come under Battle anyway?)

As an aside her grand-daughter who brought up my gran,  married as Emily Luffkin, notice change in spelling. 

The untruths:
From the original data I found from other people's records on family search.org she is named Helena Lorraine Lovekin Stanford Smith.  I have no idea where these names came from as there are no sources.

I cannot find a John Lovekin in Sussex.  I did a search on Smith and came up with an 1871 census of  family John and Emily Smith living in Punnetts Town.  He is an Ag Lab.  They have a daughter called Lorraine aged 4 born in Mountfield.  They also have a daughter called Emily aged 18.  Also a daughter Florence who in 1891 appears on   census possibly as Florence Lovekin living alone with younger sister and son.  Her birthplace matches - Warbleton. 

That's the information I have or have guessed at.  I would really appreciate some help with finding her parents for definite and also finding her birth.  I have tried FreeBMD for all the children named on the 1871 census and came up with blanks for Smith and Lovekin.

Thank you

Kerryb
Title: Re: Brickwall in Sussex - Helena Lorraine Lovekin
Post by: casalguidi on Sunday 27 February 05 14:50 GMT (UK)
Hi Kerryb

I just looked up some of the entries you refer to (to give me a better idea of the whole family) and will post here because now I have typed them out they might be useful to others:

1871 Warbleton

John SMITH head mar 39 ag lab b.Lamberhurst Kent
Emily wife 38 b.Horsham
Emily dau 18 b.Ore
George son 14 b.Rye
Mary Ann dau 11 b.Ashburnham
Bertha dau 8 b.Battle
William son 6 b.Warbleton
Lorraine dau 4 b.Mountfield
Florence dau 1 b.Warbleton

RG10/1045 folio 30 page 24

.............

1881

Netherfield Place Farm Barn, Battle

John SMITH head mar 49 b.Lamberhurst Kent
Emily wife 48 b.Holborn Middlesex
Bertha dau 18 b.Battle
William son 15 b.Warbleton
Laura dau 14 b.Mountfield
Flora dau 11 b.Warbleton
Jessie 8 b.Wartling
Thomas 4 b.Mayfield

RG11/1034 folio 34 page 21

..................................

1891 

Darwell Hole, Brightling

John SMITH head mar 59 gen lab b.Lamberhurst Kent
Emily wife 58 b.Horsham
William son 25 gen lab b.Warbleton
Thomas son 14 gen lab b.Mayfield

RG12/768 folio 117 page 19
.............................

1891

3 Dragon Houses, Wartling

Edwin HAFFENDEN head mar etc..........
Emily wife 38 b.Hastings

Rg12/776 folio 130 page 10

Emily must be Lorraine's sister b.Ore (Hastings)  ???

Emily LOVEKIN m Edwin HAFFENDEN 1877 Eastbourne RD.

I think there's little doubt that you have the right family here ......... there could be a number of reasons for the change of name ............ perhaps Emily (the mother) had LOVEKIN as her maiden name and didn't marry John SMITH?  Had she been married before?  Did John SMITH have an alias?

It would be a good idea to catch them in the 1861 census if you can.  Unfortunately, the 1860s are still not that well represented on freebmd.  Baptisms of the children may shed more light on the scenario.

Best wishes

Casalguidi



Title: Re: Brickwall in Sussex - Helena Lorraine Lovekin
Post by: kerryb on Sunday 27 February 05 16:07 GMT (UK)
Casalguidi

To add to your very helpful reply:

the 1881 census,  Laura could quite easily be written down for Lorraine (thick Sussex accent or misspelling!)  Jessie shows here and she is the sister in the 1891 census return for Florence in Bodle Green.  Judging by the different places of birth the family have really moved around!

I agree there is little doubt I have got the right family.  Can anyone help with 1861 census or earlier?  and a prize to the first person to find one of the baptisms of these children!   :)

Kerryb
Title: Re: Brickwall in Sussex - Helena Lorraine Lovekin
Post by: sandra70 on Sunday 27 February 05 16:26 GMT (UK)
Hi

1851 census for Mountfield, no Lovekin's or Luffkin's -

the only possible link I can see is
James Harmer, 65 pauper, bricklayer , Herstmonceux ?

But more than likely to be no relation whatsoever  lol

cheers
Sandra   :)
Title: Re: Brickwall in Sussex - Helena Lorraine Lovekin
Post by: kerryb on Friday 11 March 05 17:34 GMT (UK)
Hi

My brickwall gets higher!!!!

Just got the marriage certificate of Emily Lovekin to Edwin Haffenden back.  Emily is born 1853 so that matches the sister of Helena.  However her father is down as Henry Lovekin and he is deceased so he cannot be the same man as John Smith.

Maybe John Smith was not her father but Emily (snr) was her mother?  Maybe that is why the children are called Lovekin - mother's maiden name.  I am awaiting birth certificate of Thomas one of the other children, most of the births such as Helena and Emily I could not find records for.   Emily (snr) maiden name will be on Thomas's birth cert (hopefully).

If anybody else has any theories or advice please share as I am really puzzled!

Thanks

kerryb
Title: Re: Brickwall in Sussex - Helena Lorraine Lovekin
Post by: casalguidi on Friday 11 March 05 18:43 GMT (UK)
Hi Kerry

Yes, that's really interesting.  It would certainly lead one to believe that Emily was previously married to a LOVEKIN or at the very least somebody else prior to John SMITH.

It looks very much like they are all siblings or half siblings in one way or another but it's going to take quite a bit of sorting out just who belongs to who!

Roll on the 1861 census online and hope that sorts something out for you!

Best wishes

Casalguidi
Title: Re: Brickwall in Sussex - Helena Lorraine Lovekin
Post by: sillgen on Friday 11 March 05 19:32 GMT (UK)
1861 - I have had a quick look through Ashburnham and part of Battle on the basis of the children's birth places but no luck.  that does not mean they were not there - it was a quick flick through and I did not finish battle.
Andrea
Title: Re: Brickwall in Sussex - Helena Lorraine Lovekin
Post by: kerryb on Monday 14 March 05 12:23 GMT (UK)
Hi

To add to all of the above, I received one of the brother's, Thomas birth cert today.  The maiden name of mother is - Emily Stanford, so that is where the Stanford fits in.  I am beginning to think she must have been married before to a Lovekin but why all the children have taken that name later on remains a mystery.  I continue my search.

kerryb
Title: Re: Brickwall in Sussex - Helena Lorraine Lovekin
Post by: lizzieloop on Saturday 29 October 05 11:57 BST (UK)
Hi,

This is probably a wild goose chase for both of us but, as the surname seems unusual, to me anyway, I thought I would reply anyway.

My 3 x Great Grandfather (who was my brickwall) married a Jane Jones and on their marriage certificate it stated that Jane Jones was formerly 'LUFKIN' - now I have traced a 1st marriage for Jane Lupkin (another spelling variation maybe)to a James Jones, married 3 August 1827 in Weaverham, Cheshire. My Jane was born abt 1803 in Crewe, Cheshire. Now I realise you are looking in Mountfield, Sussex but, the strange coincidence I found was that Jane married Robert Mountfield!!!

Regards
L xx
Title: Re: Brickwall in Sussex - Helena Lorraine Lovekin
Post by: kerryb on Saturday 29 October 05 12:03 BST (UK)
Hi Lizzie

How many variations have we got now then:

Lovekin
Luffkin
Lufkin
Lupkin

It gets worse!   :o ::) ::)

Kerry
Title: Re: Brickwall in Sussex - Helena Lorraine Lovekin
Post by: lizzieloop on Saturday 29 October 05 12:05 BST (UK)
How about:

Lopkin
Lofkin
Luffkin

 :P

L xx
Title: Re: Brickwall in Sussex - Helena Lorraine Lovekin
Post by: rumbolds on Saturday 12 November 05 11:43 GMT (UK)
HELLO  KERRY

E-MAIL  IS  NOT  MY  BEST  SUBJECT  BUT  IM  DOING  MY  BEST

I  THINK  EMILY  SMITH  AND  EMILY  LOVEKIN  COULD  BE
ONE  OF  THE  SAME  PERSON,  MY  CONNECTION  TO
LOVEKIN  AND SMITH  IS.

SAMUEL  PAGDEN  MY  GT  GT  GRANDFATHER  BORN
3 - 11 - 1954,  NEWICK.  SUSSEX,  DIED  12 - 12 - 1876
MAYFIELD.  SUSSEX.  SON  OF  JAMES  AND  SOPHIA  PAGDEN  NEE  SIMMONDS,  SAMUEL  WAS  ONE  OF  SEVERAL  CHILDREN.

THE  CHILDREN  OF  SAMUEL  AND  EMILY  PAGDEN  NEE
LOVEKIN  OR  SMITH,  AND  EDWIN  AND  EMILY  HAFFENDEN
NEE  LOVEKIN  OR  SMITH.  ARE  AS  FOLLOW'S.

MARY  ANN  FLORENCE  PAGDEN   BN  1873 
D.  14 - 3 - 1874  MAYFIELD
WILLIAM  SAMUEL  PAGDEN  MY  GT  GT  GRANDFATHER
BN  1 - 4 - 1875  MAYFIELD.  M  2 - 6 - 1900  BEXHILL.
D  19 - 1 - 1942  NEWICK
EDWIN  THOMAS  HAFFENDDEN  BN  12 - 4 - 1878   BURWASH
EMILY  ELIZABETH  HAFFENDEN  BN  4 - 1 - 1881
WARTLING
GEORGE  HENRY  HAFFENDEN  BN  24 - 9 - 1883  WARTLING
EDITH  FLORENCE  HAFFENDEN  BN  28 - 8 - 1886  WARTLING
JAMES  HAFFENDEN  BN  18 - 1 - 1888  WARTLING
ALBERT  VICTOR  HAFFENDEN  BN  1 - 6 - 1897
BODLE  STREET  GREEN
ALICE  MABEL  HAFFENDEN  BT  11 - 6 - 1898
BODLE  STREET  GREEN

SOMETIMES  THE  MOTHERS  NAME  ON  THE  BIRTH 
CERTIFICATE'S  IS  GIVEN  AS  PAGDEN  OR  LOVEKIN
OR  SMITH  OR  LATE  PAGDEN

POSSIBLY  HELENA  LORRAINE  LOVEKIN  AND  EMILY
LOVEKIN  OR  SMITH  COULD  BE  SISTER'S  OR  COUSIN'S.

MY  MOTHER  AND  HER  SISTER'S  HAD  SKIN  VERY  SIMILAR
TO  GISPY  SKIN  COLOUR.

IM  INTERESTED  ON  ANY  INFORMATION  ON  PAGDEN
LOVEKIN  OR  SMITH

RUMBOLDS
Title: Re: Brickwall in Sussex - Helena Lorraine Lovekin
Post by: kerryb on Saturday 12 November 05 19:44 GMT (UK)
Hello rumbolds

Sorry I meant to answer you after the information you put on another post about the same family.   I have so many strands on the go at the moment I am getting bogged down!!!

I think it is likely that Emily Haffenden nee Lovekin or Smith is the older sister of Helena nee Lovekin or Smith.  I think I have just about proved that the Stanford bit was the maiden name of their mother Emily but so far have only managed to find evidence of one of the children being registered as born and find one birth cert.  I wonder if the Lovekin comes from John Smith's mother.  If they are gypsies they often took a matriachal name. 

I will take your information and see if I can match it with my Emily.  I will let you know what I find!

Kerry
Title: Re: Brickwall in Sussex - Helena Lorraine Lovekin
Post by: colinceejay on Monday 19 June 17 14:20 BST (UK)
my name is colin haffenden and my family were from Ashburnham in east sussex.
my family tree includes Edwin haffenden