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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Denbighshire => Wales => Denbighshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: sigrid7 on Friday 17 July 09 15:39 BST (UK)
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:)
Hi
On the IGI there is a marriage between John Williams to Hannah 1827 Rhos, Ruabon. On the record it states that John b1800 Rhos. 'William' has told me that Hannah's surname was Lewis, from a previous posting, but this is not recorded on the IGI.
Is this the correct marriage and if so, this would seem to tie in with John bc1800 as on census that is the date he gives.
Which leads me to a baptism for John, of which there are quite a few!! :o
How, if possible, do I know which is the correct baptism for John?
Any help appreciated as I have picked up the Welsh threads again, in the (vain?!) hope that I can get a bit further ;D
Thanks for reading,
sigrid
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Hi sigrid :)
The marriage that you've found on the IGI is a patron submitted one and I don't see it in the parish records for 1827 so it must be treated with great caution.
I'll see if I can find an alternative.
Do you have the link to the thread where William told you that his wife was Hannah. Also, any censuse refs that you have would help trace them.
Gadget
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The best match that I can find for John is a baptism on 25th May 1800:
John Williams s/o Thomas and Sarah. Residence - Morton Above
Morton Above included Rhos. It's the only one for a John in Morton Above in the broad time frame.
Gadget
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I see that this is the family in 1851:
HO107/2503/318/17
The eldest child on this census is John Williams, aged 23 so that would probably be why the 1827 marriage date was submitted to the LDS.
I'll see if I can find any more..................
Gadget
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Thanks Gadget. I asked about Hannah last august, I don't know how to do the link, sorry. It was a census lookup. There were three possibles and having looked at them again I think ??? that John and Hannah are Hannah's parents.
The entry for Hannah was on the IGI, she had a sister Ruth.
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Hi sigrid
I'll have another look in the parish records later on this evening. The IGI is not a very good source for our area so it's best to try to get C of E/non-conformist records if possible.
Gadget
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I have Hannah parents John and Hannah on the 51, same as you.
61 couldn't find.
71 Hannah , mother in Law RG10 5653 ?? p36
I got this off genes and it doesn't show the folio on the sheet I printed.
They are in Hall st, Hannah b1807.
I also traced the other two possibles as you never know!
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I think this is the earlier thread:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,319825.0.html
LOts of missing pieces on the 1861
It's 5 pages so I'll have a good read to refresh my memory :)
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Yes, that's the one. Thanks very much for the offer of looking through the pr's.
That would explain why I couldn't find them!
Enjoy the read, as I have refreshed my memory too. How do you do the link, just so I know in future?
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How do you do the link, just so I know in future?
If yo go to the relevant thread, Then click on the title at the top, you'll get the address in your address bar in your browser. Click on that and highlight and copy (Crtl-C) then paste it (Ctrl-V) into your current message.
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Thanks Gadget ;D
don't want to be a complete ignoramus!
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Not very good news, sigrid :(
I've checked the Ruabon parish records for marriages and baptisms but, apart from the John bpt 1800, there doesn't seem to be anything. This suggests that they were non-conformists (William found some baptisms for some of the children on the Blackwell Index). Suprisingly, there is no sign of a baptism for Hannah Lewis either. This suggests that either her family were non-conformist at the time of her birth or that she wasn't bpt. in the Ruabon parish.
The lack of a marriage is strange but, there again, it could have taken place in another parish; either because Hannah was living outside of the area at the time or they chose to marry elsewhere for personal reasons! Alternatively, they might have gone through a non-conformist ceremony which. although not legally binding, did happen.
I have very few non-conformist records of the area because, with one exception (and outside of the area), my lines were all Anglican/Scottish Presbyterian.
Sorry
Gadget
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:)Thanks very much Gadget. A strange one - again. ;D
There is a baptism for Hannah on IGI - for 1802 Morton Above, parents John and Mary. On census bc 1803, so maybe this is her?
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Hi Sigrid
I can't get on the site at the moment - maintenance! Did it have a proper batch number on it or was it a patron submission. If the latter then, I'd be very wary. I don't think that any of the Ruabon Parish records are on the online IGI.
Gadget
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Hi again
I've found her in my earlier registers:
Ruabon
17 August 1802 Hannah Lewis d/o John and Mary. Residence - Morton Above.
I'll check for her parents' marriage after lunch :)
Gadget
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Interestingly, a Hannah Lewis was a witness at the marriage of a Robert Dodd and Elizabeth Pritchard (wcop) on 25th Dec 1819. They all made their marks rather than signing.
Gadget
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:D
I had a hunch
Hannah and John married much earlier than your find:
Ruabon
23 Sept 1820: John Williams and Hannah Lewis (otp, wcop) by banns. Made their mark. Witnesses: William Griffiths and Elizabeth Griffiths.
Gadget
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Thanks very much Gadget :o :o :o
Where did you find it?
I wonder if the marriage she was a witness to was her sister Elizabeth and then Elizabeth having married was a witness to Hannah's marriage.
Is that a baptism for Hannah as the IGI says born 25 July?
Hannah was young when she married then, so more questions arise ( I don't expect an answer!) where there any earlier children before John......
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Hi Sigrid
Where did you find it? - Ruabon Parish records
I wonder if the marriage she was a witness to was her sister Elizabeth and then Elizabeth having married was a witness to Hannah's marriage. - not sure because Elizabeth was Elizabeth Pritchard
Is that a baptism for Hannah as the IGI says born 25 July? - baptism was August b. 25 July
Hannah was young when she married then, so more questions arise ( I don't expect an answer!) where there any earlier children before John...... I'll check and get back to you
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I'm pleased that with your help that I have a lot more to add!!
Yep silly me not paying attention re Elizabth and looking for clues that aren't there!!
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Haven't found Hannah's`parents marriage yet but I'll check for any siblings to see if I can pinpoint a possible time frame. Also with John's parents - but Williams is a little more difficult/common.
Gadget
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Hi again sigrid :)
I've not found a marriage for Hannah's parents John and Mary in Ruabon. They may have married in a neighbouring parish.
Interestingly the only other Lewis births around that time period are for a John and Elizabeth, also Morton Above. I'm jsut wondering if it might have been a slip of the clerks quill! I can't see a marriage for them either though :-\
I'll see if I can chase up John's parents
Gadget
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:)
Just found this - a possible
Marriage Oct 20 1799 Thomas Williams and Sarah Williams (otp), by Banns. Only one witness - John Thomas
Gadget
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Apart from John's baptism of 1800, there is this:
27 May 1804 Sarah (born 2 April) d/o Thomas Williams and Sarah. Residence - Morton Above.
Gadget
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Also:
Baptism 20 May 1806 Thomas Williams s/o Thomas Williams and Sarah, Morton Above
Lots of birth/baptisms in this period so am ploughing through ::)
Gadget
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Had a little double take there - there are another Thomas and Sarah Williams but living Christionydd Kenrig!
Baptism
11th March 1810 Ann Williams (b. 11 Feb) d/o Thomas Williams and Sarah, Morton Above
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:o :oFantastic Gadget. These are great.
I had a look on the IGI to see what was there and there are possibly more children born MA. However there is another John born 1808 CK Ruabon, which confused me a bit. If not the same family then there is another family of parents Thomas and Sarah, as you said.
I now have John's parents and their marriage and Hannah's parents too.
There is nothing for a marriage John Lewis on IGI.
I now have something to work with, so thanks very much indeed. ;D
sigrid