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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: gemini on Monday 20 July 09 15:34 BST (UK)
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Does anyone have any information on John Anderson born approx 1856 possibly Scotland or Ireland parents maybe John Anderson and Katherine Oliver? John drowned 1943 at the Berembed Weir Naranderra NSW. We have never been able to find his marriage to Elizabeth Ann Norris/Peelman/Austerberry.
regards maggie
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Hi Maggie
According to the NSW BDM's, the only John Anderson who died in Nerrandera in 1943 has parents listed as Andrew & Agnes.
Did a search on Scottish census' & found a possible matching family in Shetland (only one I could find with a John born abt 1856 & parents Andrew & Agnes):
1861 census:
Andrew Anderson, Head, born abt 1807 Occupation farmer.
Agnes, Wife, born abt 1809
Grace, daughter, born abt 1842
Catherine, daughter, born abt 1845
Andrew (jnr), son, born abt 1848
Gideon, son, born abt 1852
John, son, born abt 1856
All members of this family were born in Northmavine, Shetland, Scotland
Found them again in the 1871 census, John was still with his parents.
In the 1881 census, the only matching John I could find was listed as a lamp trimmer on the ship "Manitoban"
Does this tie in with any other info you have?
Annie
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You may have this paper clipping.
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article2620633
Cheers
Jean
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Also see
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=393561.0
where a little more information has been posted.
Kris :)
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We don't know when he came out to Australia. He had wife but we never been able to find the marriage cert Elizabeth Anne Norris/Peelman/Austerberry and three children, Christian Rueben born 1903 Melbourne Victoria, Grace Maud 1907 Wagga Wagga NSW and Thomas Henry Anderson born 1914 Wagga Wagga NSW
From linked thread - gemini
Can't see the birth of a Christian Reuben ANDERSON in Victoria but there is this registration - born to John's wife's 1st marriage.
NORRIS Christian Reuben
Father Christian Mother Annie PEELMAN
South Melbourne 1903 Reg#4768
The 1907 birth registration of Grace in NSW has Annie as mother.
8490/1907
ANDERSON Grace M
Father John Mother Annie
Wagga Wagga
So we are looking for a marriage between 1903 and 1907. I can't see a death for Christian NORRIS in that period.
Cando
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Hi Maggie,
Following Cando's find
1903 Electoral Roll 251 Hanna St South Melbourne
NORRIS Christian Contractor
NORRIS Annie Home Duties
I do not see Christian mentioned again in the Electoral Rolls
Cheers Kris :)
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According to the NSW BDM's, the only John Anderson who died in Nerrandera in 1943 has parents listed as Andrew & Agnes. Annie Oz
I have located the burial of a second JOHN ANDERSON at Nerranderra. Same year.
John ANDERSON Died 7th October, 1943.
Buried at Nerranderra Cemetery.
Pres. C. Row 06. Lot 59
Aged 79.
Unmarked Grave
I am wondering if there is some confusion with this man and the other whose burial I can also see at the same cemetery,[Different Location] having died on 7th February 1943.
Sue
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Here is the location for John Anderson, died February.
John Anderson.
Nerranderra Cemetery died 7/2/1943
C/E B. Row11. Lot 43
Aged 83/85 years.
Unmarked Grave.
Sue
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Grace may have married in NSW
Grace Maud Anderson to Herbert Rudolph Schwartz. @ Junee (4990/1938)
Ryerson shows his death in Victoria.
SCHWARTZ, Herbert Rudolph Death notice published 17JAN1967 late of Glen Iris, Vic. In Sydney Morning Herald on18JAN1967
Springvale Cemetery
Given Names HERBERT RUDOLPH
Surname SCHWARTZ
Date of Service 19/01/1967
Date of Death 17/01/1967
Age 81
Burial Type CREMATION
Tristania - Rose Tree Garden F4 Bed 20 Rose 49
Public Grave Y/N N
Tenure Date In perpetuity
Sue
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This looks like Grace's Death in NSW
18922/1944 SCHWARTZ, GRACE MAID(sic) father CHRISTIAN JOHN mother ELIZABETH ANNE @ NEWTOWN
Sue
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on the other thread
DATE OF DEATH -ON OR ABOUT 1/2/1943
PLACE -MURRUMBIDGEE RIVER, NEAR BEREMBED WEIR, YANKO SHIRE; LATE OF YANKO SHIRE, DISTRICT OF WAGGA WAGGA NSW
OCCUPATION -CARPENTER
SEX -MALE
AGE -85
CONJUGAL STATUS -
PLACE OF BIRTH -GLASGOW SCOTLAND
TIME IN AUST COLONIES -36 YEARS IN NSW, 33 YEARS IN VICTORIA
FATHER -JOHN ANDERSON
OCCUPATION -NOT KNOWN
MOTHER -KATHARINE OLIVER
so the one Sue has found
John Anderson.
Nerranderra Cemetery died 7/2/1943
C/E B. Row11. Lot 43
Aged 83/85 years.
Unmarked Grave.
should be his grave
Jenn
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Hi
Yes, Jenn and the death AnnieOz found is the other John Anderson burial.
This is where I meant the confusion lay with Annie Oz's finding of different parents.
Sue
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Is this the same mother as Christian Reuben b. 1903.
AUSTERBERRY Milly
Father: Fred Mother Annie NORRIS
At LA UN ? 1893 Reg#32984
AUSTERBERRY Nellie
Father Fred Mother Annie NORRIS
At Echuca 1895 Reg#20366
There is a birth for a Frederick AUSTERBERRY but can't see a marriage to to Annie NORRIS.
AUSTERBERRY Frederick
Father Joseph Mother Fanny BATTERSBY
At Landsborough 1876 Reg#10420
Death
23197/1953
ANDERSON Elizabeth Anne
Father Benjamin Mother Elizabeth
District Junee
If this is her death then I find the names of her parents questionable...a couple bearing the names Benjamin Leopold PEELMAN and Elizabeth NORRIS and were having children in 1882, 1885 and 1887 at Echuca. Of course it is possible there are earlier births not registered. I can't see any earlier births unless it is this one.
Birth
NORRIS Elizabeth Ann
Father Unknown Mother Elizabeth NORRIS
At Ballarat 1873 Reg#14276
Some certs would need to be sighted to sort this lot out. The birth cert of Christian Reuben in 1903 would give you the date and place of the parents marriage.
Have you any certificates relating to the family?
Cheers
Cando
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Now this Birth in WA.
AUSTERBERRY ANNIE father FREDERICK mother PEELMAN ANNIE at KARRIDALE 568 1892
Sue
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Frederick appears to have married Mary Frances Hodges in 1900 and had a couple of children in WA.
Sue
This couple are at Fremantle Cemetery
http://www.mcb.wa.gov.au/NameSearch/results.php
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If this is her death then I find the names of her parents questionable...a couple bearing the names Benjamin Leopold PEELMAN and Elizabeth NORRIS and were having children in 1882, 1885 and 1887 at Echuca. Of course it is possible there are earlier births not registered. I can't see any earlier births unless it is this one.
Birth
NORRIS Elizabeth Ann
Father Unknown Mother Elizabeth NORRIS
At Ballarat 1873 Reg#14276 CANDO
This is probably the marriage registered in NSW
3501/1877 PEELMAN, BENSIT (sic) to NORRIS ELIZABETH @ MOAMA
Still places Elizabeth's birth outside the marriage date , hence the NORRIS surname I guess.
Sue
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Hello
Regarding John Anderson
We have this information including his paper clipping.
Can't see the birth of a Christian Reuben ANDERSON in Victoria but there is this registration - born to John's wife's 1st marriage.
NORRIS Christian Reuben
Father Christian Mother Annie PEELMAN
South Melbourne 1903 Reg#4768
The 1907 birth registration of Grace in NSW has Annie as mother.
8490/1907
ANDERSON Grace M
Father John Mother Annie
Wagga Wagga
there was also another child Thomas H Anderson born Wagga Wagga 1914
we also have this
1903 Electoral Roll 251 Hanna St South Melbourne
NORRIS Christian Contractor
NORRIS Annie Home Duties
Grace Anderson did marry Herbert Schwartz and we didn't have Grace's husband death certificate thank you for that info and this is Grace's death
This looks like Grace's Death in NSW
18922/1944 SCHWARTZ, GRACE MAID(sic) father CHRISTIAN JOHN mother ELIZABETH ANNE @ NEWTOWN
This is our John Anderson's grave
John Anderson.
Nerranderra Cemetery died 7/2/1943
C/E B. Row11. Lot 43
Aged 83/85 years.
Unmarked Grave.
this is all correct Annie/Elizabeth Norris had no father when born her mother married Benjamin Peelman and Annie/Elizabeth sometimes uses both names. Annie/Elizabeth was with Fred Austerberry and had three daughter including the one in Western Australia. Fred Austerberry went on to marry Frances Hodges and had two more daughters.
Is this the same mother as Christian Reuben b. 1903.
AUSTERBERRY Milly
Father: Fred Mother Annie NORRIS
At LA UN ? 1893 Reg#32984
AUSTERBERRY Nellie
Father Fred Mother Annie NORRIS
At Echuca 1895 Reg#20366
AUSTERBERRY ANNIE father FREDERICK mother PEELMAN ANNIE at KARRIDALE 568 1892
There is a birth for a Frederick AUSTERBERRY but can't see a marriage to to Annie NORRIS.
AUSTERBERRY Frederick
Father Joseph Mother Fanny BATTERSBY
At Landsborough 1876 Reg#10420
Death
23197/1953
ANDERSON Elizabeth Anne
Father Benjamin Mother Elizabeth
District Junee
If this is her death then I find the names of her parents questionable...a couple bearing the names Benjamin Leopold PEELMAN and Elizabeth NORRIS and were having children in 1882, 1885 and 1887 at Echuca. Of course it is possible there are earlier births not registered. I can't see any earlier births unless it is this one.
Birth
NORRIS Elizabeth Ann
Father Unknown Mother Elizabeth NORRIS
At Ballarat 1873 Reg#14276
ErrorSPAM
REPORT THIS POST AS SPAM (Use 'Report to Moderator'). DO NOT CLICK ON ANY LINKS IN THIS POST. DO NOT REPLY TO THIS PERSON.
]This is Annie/Elizabeth's mother Elizabeth who married Benjamin Peelman[/color]
This is probably the marriage registered in NSW
3501/1877 PEELMAN, BENSIT (sic) to NORRIS ELIZABETH @ MOAMA
Still places Elizabeth's birth outside the marriage date , hence the NORRIS surname I guess.
Sue
so back to our main question where was John Anderson born when did he come out to Australia and who are his parents the death cert says John Anderson and Katherine Oliver. Why does Christian Rueben Norris have his father named as Christian Norris? when he is known as Christian Rueben Anderson. Was John Anderson his father?
regards Maggie
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Hi Maggie,
I think we are seeing from your summary with notation that you already held a good deal of information about your people.
Perhaps our work today has added something new to your files, though being advised of what you already had may have been a time saver. ::)
There may be some who can help further too.
Sue
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Just a quick note to everyone on this forum. I'm not sure if I've met any of you before and it's been a while since I've been involved in the family history.
Mrs John Anderson was my grandmother's own "Grandma Anderson" (through the Austerberry line). My Mum was born in 1949, but her older siblings all knew the Andersons of Junee well, and may be able to furnish you with some info if you have specific questions you'd like to ask.
Fred Austerberry was born in Oldham, Manchester, UK and married Emily Anne Lewis in 1884 before leaving for WA. Didn't seem to able to settle down, our Fred! There is a retired Reverend Austerberry in Shropshire who has researched this family back to viking times (!!) if you'd like his contact details.
Apart from that, we have a lot of info in our research on this branch of the family if you'd like to chat.
Allison.
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Hi Allison.
Yep some info would be great please we really like to find answers. Does any of your mum's older siblings know John Anderson? and his parents who named on death certificate as John Anderson and Katherine Oliver? Are you referring to Annie (Elizabeth Anne Norris/Peelman) the mother of Christian, Grace and Tom? as your Grandma Anderson. Did Grandma Anderson aka Elizabeth/Annie/Norris/Peelman/Austerberry ever marry? Does anyone have any photos of John Anderson? and where or how does John Anderson fit in with Sir John Monash mention in Grace's death certificate?
To cut a long story short we have not found any details on John Anderson's parents, or any of the marriages of John to Annie or Annie to Fred Austerberry.
thanks
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Ok, this part of the family history is ridiculously convoluted, and its kinda difficult to explain, but I'll give you the best summary that I can for now:
Frederick Austerberry was born in Oldham, Manchester in 1862 to Daniel Samuel Austerberry and Sarah Harrop. He married Emily Ann Lewis there in 1884, then arrived in WA 21.6.1887 on YEOMAN, departed 10.9.1887 on LUSITANIA. Went to Sydney, then back to Melbourne where presumably he met Annie Peelman (step-daughter of Benoit Peelman) born Elizabeth Ann Norris, no father (Ballarat). The family were living in Footscray at this point I believe, although I need to go through my papers. Benoit was a Sawyer and Fred a Carter/Stablehand/Labourer, so perhaps he met the family through work? A lodger? We'll never know.
Fred went back to WA without Annie, who followed alone 25 June 1900 in the INIMICA to SA, then on to WA on SS FLINDERS. (An elopement?) I have a handwritten note (considerably old, author unknown) that states Annie and Fred "married 1890 Melbourne Vic, 18 Jan". The union seems to have been disapproved of. I have unfortunately inherited many old notes from previous researchers and this one is not signed, although the handwriting suggests someone born earlier in the last century, so possibly someone with first hand knowledge of the family?
They moved around a lot, with Dorothy/Annie (known as Dolly) born Karridale, WA in 1892, Millie at Launching Place, Gippsland VIC 1893, and Nellie 1895 in Echuca. Many of the Norris women ended up in Echuca at least once, usually when they were in a bad way as they had a wealthy female relative in the area (Mrs Mary Fasham nee Norris), so one could possibly speculate that Fred had already left Annie at this point and she needed family support (although that will only ever be wild speculation of course).
Fred disappears from this point - I don't believe that he is the one who marries Frances Hodges back in WA, as that Fred is the son of Joseph Austerberry, who is one of our Fred's cousins (Joseph came out to Australia with two brothers about the same time as our Fred). While we have no real clue what happened to him, His poor first (and possibly only legal) wife Emily Ann remarried in 1903 back in Oldham as a 'widow', so perhaps as his legal spouse she received the notice of his death? Wherever it was...
Previous researchers in 1984 received "no result" notifications from Victorian archives for two searches: the marriage of Frederick Austerberry to Elizabeth Ann Peelman between 1/1/1888-31/12/1892, and death of Frederick Austerberry 1/1/1896-31/12/1900, but that doesn't really help (she's a Norris on her birth certificate, he could have died anywhere...)
Which brings us to John Anderson (phew!). In terms of family details I'll have to get in touch with older relatives, but the information I have is that he married twice, once to a Kathleen (no surname given), and once to Eliza Ann. This is from a full transcript of his death certificate, which it looks like you guys have already. I have yet another unconfirmable note from an elderly contributor which states that they were married 1900 in Melbourne, but again I have no certification of it and haven't been able to find any. I do know that the Anderson's ran Anderson' Garage for decades on the old town square at Junee (until at least 1995), I think its gone now though.
So, to summarise: Fred Austerberry probably never married Annie. Annie may also have never married John Anderson - maybe she did believe (or led others to believe for her own reputation's sake) that she was still legally married to Fred, and was not free to marry John? I do remember her being described as 'formidable' by one of my aunts, and got the distinct impression that she wasn't a woman to be gainsayed...:)
I'll get in touch with rellies and see if they remember anything about the Andersons, in the meantime you could always be really cheeky - there's still a couple of Andersons in Junee, maybe give them a call?
This is only a small part of the ridiculous tale of the women genealogists on our side of the family generally refer to as the 'bl**dy Norrises'! Dolly Austerberry for example married her own aunt Norris' grandson (!!), but that's another story for another day!
I have to head out for dinner now, but will update you if any more Anderson-related info can be found.
Allison.
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Hi Alison
Thanks that would be great :) ;D :D, yep we've tried but they not very forthcoming there is only the son of Thomas in Junee now and he doesn't know much :-[ >:( :(.
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I've put a couple of feelers out, we'll see how we go. My eldest aunt was 13 when John died, and 23 when Annie died, but unfortunately both she and her husband are in quite bad health so I have contacted someone else in the family first.
I've also asked a family history researcher from Dad's side - even though she won't have anything on the Andersons she's lived in Junee her whole life and has been working on her tree for decades, and will know anyone who knows anything (if that makes sense?) The 'old' families of Junee share a lot of common heritage, and still tend to know each other pretty well.
Our rellies are still pretty thick on the ground in those parts, so if someone has more info I'm sure we'll hear eventually.
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Hi Alison
That would be fab ;D 8) :) will await your reply
feel free to ask for any info i may have ;D
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Hi Folks
Had fun reading your posts!
I am helping a friend doing her family research.
She is the granddaughter of Mary Ellen/Eleanor Peelman daughter of
Edgar Benoit Leopold Peelman and Elizabeth Norris.
So, any help you can give on the Peelman family or on Elizabeth Norris
would be welcome please.
I have not as yet found Elizabeth Norris death ?
Thanks Susan
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Hi Susan,
I don't have much on Benoit Peelman to hand, but I remember he was living in Footscray and working as a Sawyer when he was naturalised (check National Archives in Canberra online? I think that's where I saw it years ago) His name suggests he is of Belgian extraction. There was a family story somewhere that he 'jumped ship' as a sailor i.e. never officially immigrated to Australia, hence limited records...see if you can track down a man called Leigh Copeland online, he lives in Melbourne and owns original correspondence btwn Elizabeth and Benoit from when Benoit was travelling for work - I've lost his contact details!
Good luck,
Allison.
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Back to John Anderson -Has anybody ever found out who john anderson parents are and where he was actually born he died 1943 drowned at the berembed weir and buried at naranderra nsw. Was he the said father of Christian Anderson born 1903-1907 annie norris/peelman the mother in melbourne.
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Hoping I haven't repeated other information. :-\
This article gives a bit more information about his drowning and states that John ANDERSON had "relatives in Junee", and left a two sons and a daughter. He had been living at Brewarrina Station near Grong Grong (23 kilometres east of Narrandera)
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/176230392
Children's names given here
Mrs. H. Schwartz, of Coff's Harbor, Messrs. Robert and Cliff Anderson, of Junee
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/144105330
Grace would be the child born 1907 with this marriage at Junee 1938 #4990
Herbert Rudolph SCHWARTZ, Grace Maude ANDERSON
These describe John as a foreman for Messrs. C. Hardy and Co., building contractors, Wagga, but had been retired for 14 years.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/144116957
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/156040641
No help in finding when his origins though. :(
Judith
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Hi Judith
Thank you we have most of the info but we do not recognized Robert or Cliff as Grace's brothers were Tom and Christian. Elizabeth/Annie Peelman/Norris was the mother of Christian Tom and Grace. She is also the mother of Dorothy, Millie and Nellie her children to Fred Austerberry. What I like to know is how was John Anderson connected to John Monash. There was a John Thomas Noble Anderson but he has a different age range. Nobody has a photo of our John Anderson who drowned on 1943. Such a mystery as we like to know where he was born and who his parents are.
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Hi
The 1943 (and earlier ones) Electoral Roll with Anderson at Junee NSW includes a Harold Septimus ANDERSON, a law clerk, and at that same address there's others with same surname, including Robert (eg also the Electoral Roll 1936) likely one of the sons mentioned in the cutting as present at the funeral :)
The Ryerson index has a 1986 death for an 84 year old chap Harold Septimus ANDERSON, late of Junee. (smh 12 June 1986)
NSW BDM has a death registration #15096 of 1986 for Harold Septimus ANDERSON with parents given names as John Lauchlan and Margaret.
NSW BDM birth registration likely to be same Harold, but registered West Maitland #4405/1902
JM
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Hi
Ah this gets more confusing
This john anderson had glasgow Scotland as his place of birth he suppose to have spend 33 yrs in nsw and 36 yrs in Victoria
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Do you have the 1943 NSW death cert (or official transcription) ... it should include the names and ages of the children of the deceased, and the name of his wife, and when/where married, and how long in the colonies etc etc.
JM
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If you have John ANDERSON's death certificate who is listed as the informant?
Very odd that the names of the sons as reported in the newspaper are not his sons ???
Judith
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Yes we do actually - must see If we have it here with us on the computer. I have never been able to find his shipping record or his marriage to Elizabeth/Annie Peelman/Norris. They separated and she died in Junee.
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Part of his death cert was on here page 2
the other thread
Quote
DATE OF DEATH -ON OR ABOUT 1/2/1943
PLACE -MURRUMBIDGEE RIVER, NEAR BEREMBED WEIR, YANKO SHIRE; LATE OF YANKO SHIRE, DISTRICT OF WAGGA WAGGA NSW
OCCUPATION -CARPENTER
SEX -MALE
AGE -85
CONJUGAL STATUS -
PLACE OF BIRTH -GLASGOW SCOTLAND
TIME IN AUST COLONIES -36 YEARS IN NSW, 33 YEARS IN VICTORIA
FATHER -JOHN ANDERSON
OCCUPATION -NOT KNOWN
MOTHER -KATHARINE OLIVER
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This is Elizabeth
Death
23197/1953
ANDERSON Elizabeth Anne
Father Benjamin Mother Elizabeth
District Junee
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Hi Judith
Page 1,2 and 3 has more info that we put up years ago and I thought if I query again someone might notice and have more information. :D
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I wonder if that is a partial transcription rather than a full transcription of the 1943 dc. Official transcribers offer partial transcriptions. Full ones should detail the names of the children and their ages, and the informant's details too.
JM
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Although the marital status has a stroke there rather than married/divorced/widowered.
JM
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Hi
Monash and Anderson ?
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/9162516?searchTerm=john%20monash%20anderson&searchLimits=
Muss
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Here is Grace's obit ... I don't think it has been posted before.
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article144849881
Ros
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Thank you we have Grace obit. I wonder whoever gave the information about John Anderson being associated with Sir John Monash has him mixed up with John Thomas Noble Anderson. How was John Anderson associated with him what job did he have. I have the info that John Anderson work for Hardys. I'm hitting a brick wall trying to find his shipping record and his parents and his marriage to Annie Peelman/Norris.
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According to the death cert it says his father was john anderson and mother katharine oliver we have not found the proof and that he was born in Glasgow.
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Hi there,
On that death certificate, who is the informant, and has the informant provided any names for children of the deceased? Please don't name them in case they are still living. Also is it a dc or an official transcription, and if a transcription is it a full one, or a partial one... Sorry for the questions but the answers may help explain why the newspaper names those two chaps at Junee as his sons ... particularly if one was the informant.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=393561.msg2647486#msg2647486 (from 2009, on the Scottish Board)
JM
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Hi
I say it had to be a transcription and a partial one. I just got my dad death certificate and it listed us kids his wife and informant etc. I'm researching my husband side.
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This may well make things even more confusing.
Sydney Morning Herald Thursday June 12, 1986 page 23
DEATHS
ANDERSON, Harold Septimus.
June 9 1986, formerly of 52 George Street, Junee, loved son of John and Margaret Anderson (both deceased) fond brother of Belle, Maggie, Robert, Ken, Alec, June and Lauchlan (all deceased) Aged 84 years. Interred Wednesday Junee.
JM
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I speculate that I am eliminating one of the possible ANDERSON families from Junee or Junee Junction...
From NSW BDM online index for deaths, confirms several of Harold’s siblings listed in that smh notice.
1940 Lachlan John ANDERSON registered Penrith #11896
(John McLaughlin and Margaret as given names for his parents)
1960 Robert ANDERSON, registered Wollongong. #27739.
(John McLaughlan and Margaret as given names for his parents)
1967 Kenneth ANDERSON, registered Tamworth #32902
(John and Margaret as given names for his parents)
1972 Maggie ANDERSON, registered Junee #46126
(John McLauchlan and Margaret as given names for her parents)
http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/Pages/family-history/family-history.aspx
The births at NSW BDM
1885 Alexander George, #21182, Gunnedah
1887 Maggie #29660, Walgett
1890 Eran I #35199, Walgett
1892 Lachlan J, #7063, Bingara
1894 Isabel E, #6612, Bingara
1899 Robert, #35199, Walgett
1902 Harold S #4405, West Maitland
1904 Kenneth, #4480, West Maitland
NSW Electoral Roll 1902, HUNTER polling at West Maitland
John McLaughlan ANDERSON, Devonshire Street, school teacher
Margaret ANDERSON, Devonshire Street, domestic duties
ADD
Marriage indexed at NSW BDM, John McL ANDERSON and Margaret MACEWAN/MCEWAN registered Nundle in 1884 #7149. (deduced date 24 June 1884)
ADD
Deceased Estate file INDEX at NSW State Archives online
John McL ANDERSON, East Maitland, died 7 September 1926, duty paid 2 March 1927, occupation retired public school teacher.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/108719664 Nepean Times 27 June 1940 Obituary for Lachlan ANDERSON.... In part it notes He is survived by ..... and by his mother , who resides at Junee Junction.
ANDERSON is another of those popular surnames.... :D,
JM
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Thank you for all the info. I don't think they belong to this john anderson he was born 1856 - 1857 in Glasgow according to the death transcription. He then lived 33 yrs in victoria and 36 in nsw. He has one son born in Victoria and a son and daughter in nsw. We don't even have a photograph of John Anderson. He worked for hardy bros timber and there was a photo but which one was him.
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??? ??? ???
So is the chap who drowned near Narrandera your man with the wrong sons named? ??? ???
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I think a full official transcription of the dc for our OP's John ANDERSON may have some of the answers.
JM
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Yes the john who drowned is our man and his sons were Christian and Thomas and daughter Grace. If I got the full certificate what will it show. I had the partial transcription.
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I don't want another transcription or death certificate if it's going to show the same information as what I already have.
DATE OF DEATH -ON OR ABOUT 1/2/1943
PLACE -MURRUMBIDGEE RIVER, NEAR BEREMBED WEIR, YANKO SHIRE; LATE OF YANKO SHIRE, DISTRICT OF WAGGA WAGGA NSW
OCCUPATION -CARPENTER
SEX -MALE
AGE -85
CONJUGAL STATUS -
PLACE OF BIRTH -GLASGOW SCOTLAND
TIME IN AUST COLONIES -36 YEARS IN NSW, 33 YEARS IN VICTORIA
FATHER -JOHN ANDERSON
OCCUPATION -NOT KNOWN
MOTHER -KATHARINE OLIVER
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Hi
this notice has sons Robert and Christian http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/101543914?searchTerm=berembed%20weir%20%20anderson&searchLimits=
Muss
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Who was the informant on the death certificate?
News item has John born Sweden.
Cando
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Gemini would you please insert other's research in Insert Quote Marks. Immediately under Font Size drop down box. Only shows when you are typing a post.
On reading through the thread I thought some of this research look like the same as I post transcriptions and yes it was.
Thanks
Cando
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Sorry we actually do have a copy of that transcription and I just use the one on here. I'll remember to do that :). Is the full death certificate the same as the transcription for back in those days?
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Yes the john who drowned is our man and his sons were Christian and Thomas and daughter Grace. If I got the full certificate what will it show. I had the partial transcription.
and
Sorry we actually do have a copy of that transcription and I just use the one on here. I'll remember to do that :). Is the full death certificate the same as the transcription for back in those days?
The full official transcription will include ALL the same info as on the actual NSW BDM death certificate, so it will include ALL the info on the partial transcription PLUS all the details that are on the real deal certificate .... so it will include the details on the informant, and all the details that that informant provided to the funeral director who did the formal lodgement of the forms. So details of the deceased's marriage/s and name in chronological order the children of the marriage/s, depending on the informant's knowledge ... and Yes, the headings are basically the same for 1940s as for the more recent registrations, so very similar info to the recent certificate you commented on here: Hi
I say it had to be a transcription and a partial one. I just got my dad death certificate and it listed us kids his wife and informant etc. I'm researching my husband side.
JM
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Who was the informant on the death certificate?
News item has John born Sweden.
Cando
Agh ... so spelling variations and naturalisation papers are worth checking too.
JM
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Thank you very much everybody I guess I'm doom to never knowing. I don't even know when he came out to get the naturalization papers. I have my side their papers etc but his side is a different story :) 8) ???
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Shown below is exactly what is asked for from the informant giving the information for a Death certificate in NSW. As already stated it does depend on the knowledge/truthfulness of the informant. In this case the informant knew John's approximate time in NSW and Vic and was also confident enough to name some parents for him. I suspect one of his sons may have been the informant as they lived reasonably close by and would have been able to attend.
However,as John was in his 80s it's possible that his child/ren may not have known a great deal about his early life. I have worked with someone who had no knowledge whatsoever of her ancestor's first marriage and his first childen.
(Sometimes the undertaker or other official is listed as 'the informant' as s/he may be the person actually filling in the forms, in which case the information would have been sourced from someone who knew the deceased.)
DEATH NSW
Date
Death place
Age
Occupation
Cause of death
Parents' names
Spouse names
Marriage details
Age at marriage
Chns names
No of chn
Birthplace
Residency
Burial place and details
Informant and informant's details
You're right, a full transcription may not give any further information than what you already have, but more would have been requested at the time of registration.
Judith
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Electoral Roll 1943 RIVERINA, polling at Junee
Christian ANDERSON, 46 Regent St, flour miller
Pearlie Henrietta ANDERSON, 46 Regent St, home duties
NOTE Electoral roll 1936 RIVERINA, polling Junee – please notice the street addresses:
Christian ANDERSON, Pretoria Avenue, Flour miller
Harold Septimus ANDERSON, Pretoria Avenue, Articled Clerk
Maggie ANDERSON, Pretoria Avenue, teacher
Margaret ANDERSON, Pretoria Avenue, home duties
Pearlie ANDERSON, Pretoria Avenue, home duties
Robert ANDERSON, Pretoria Avenue, clerk.
THERE ARE OTHERS WITH THAT SURNAME, BUT NOT RESIDING IN THAT AVENUE.
NSW BDM marriages INDEX
1926 Pearl H SCANLAN and Christian ANDERSON registered Wagga Wagga district #9120
Ryerson Index:
Pearlie Henrietta ANDERSON aged 64 died 14 March 1972, late of Kemblawarra, Illawarra Mercury 15 March 1972.
NSW State Archives
Probate Pearlie ANDERSON
Series 4-735514, DD 14 March 1972, Granted 10 August 1972
EDIT to strike through this info, as Muss' kind post #64 shows this is NOT the correct John ANDERSON.
Back to the 1937 Electoral Roll
RIVERINA, polling at Narrandera
John ANDERSON, Municipal Common, Narrandera, labourer.
I cannot find a John ANDERSON polling at Narrandera in 1930, but I can find him from 1931 to 1937, and also on the 1943 roll all with same details as 1937 listing above.
JM
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Hi JM
As per your earlier quotes
Ok on the Pretoria st - were they all living in the same house?
Christian was John's son and Pearlie was Christian's wife they had one daughter she would have been 9 yrs old. John Anderson was separated from his wife which explains him not living at Pretoria St. Did John have more than one partner/wife? What is the relation with Harold, Maggie, Margaret and Robert to Christian and Pearlie?
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Also I notice Elizabeth/Annie the mother of Christian isn't there either.
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Those are good questions Gemini, but there's no requirement for electoral rolls for NSW to show any relationship between any elector. And back in the 1930s, not all electoral rolls gave the house number or name on the rolls, so it is entirely possible that all those listed as residing Petoria Ave were not known to each other, were not related to each other and all lived in separate homes along that avenue. You may need to obtain official records that are not readily available online, but are held for example at NSW State Archives. Their holdings are extensive. https://www.records.nsw.gov.au/
JM
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Hi
The John Anderson who died October 1943 lived at The Common http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/101532094?searchTerm=john%20anderson&searchLimits=l-state=New+South+Wales|||l-decade=194|||l-year=1943|||l-month=10
Muss
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Thanks Muss, I will go back and strike through the relevant Electoral Roll lists ASAP
edit done before reply #66 was displaying. :)
JM
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Hi muss that's not my john anderson he was 85 and drowned in the weir.
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http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/144300760 1 August 1940, Daily Advertiser
Eliminating this Mrs Annie Elizabeth Anderson who died Junee District Hospital 1 August 1940 and was a widow, with one surviving son…. Mr and Mrs R ANDERSON of Bankstown (son and daughter in law)… buried C of E, Junee cemetery.
See also the SMH 17 Oct 1918 for funeral of Charles James ANDERSON, husband of Mrs Annie Elizabeth and father of Master Reg … http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/15806902
ANDERSON continues to be a popular surname.
JM
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Has anyone purchased Grace's birth certificate? This would have John's age and place of birth and should have a date for their marriage ie if they married. Unfortunately information on birth certificates regarding marriage dates is not always accurate.
I posted this earlier in the thread
The 1907 birth registration of Grace in NSW has Annie as mother.
8490/1907
ANDERSON Grace M
Father John Mother Annie
Wagga Wagga
Cando
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Hi cando and jm no we don't have grace birthcert and jm i saw that article about annie elizabeth anderson and like you said there are plenty of andersons 😀I'm pretty sure we brought the full transcript of john anderson death. We r currently on the road travelling and the harddrive with all the info is in storage so we will look at getting grace birth cert 😀
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I think Grace's birth info will have greater benefit over seeking out the rest of that partial transcription.
Enjoy your travels.
JM
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Hi JM thank you i will let you know the results ;D
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Just adding my agreement to JM's suggestion to get the birth cert for Grace.
Judith
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Benedictus Edgardus Peelman is born in Gent (Belgium) 18.08.1855 as son of Paulus Joannes Peelman (Gent 27.12.1816 - Brussels 18.02.1869) and Francisca Joanna Eerens (Gent 08.01.1824 - Gent 12.10.1843). He married in 1877 in Moama Elisabeth Norris (Victoria 1857 - died before 1911).
Benedictus died in 1915 in Footscray. Benedictus was a boatsman.
Benedictus and Elisabeth had 5 children:
1. Mary Eleor Peelman ( born in 1882)
2. Sophy Theresia Peelman ( born in 1885 in Echuca and died in Echuca in 1886)
3. Daisy Hortense Peelman ( born in 1887 in Echuca and died in 1957). She was married with Arthur Henry Kenny
4. Albert Victor Peelman ( born in 1890 in Footscray and died in 1961). He married Hannah Pheobe Hine ( Bacchus Marsh, Victoria in 1911 - Kew, Victoria in 1955) in 1911 and had 3 children:
4.1 : Edgar William Peelman ( born in Footscray in 1913 - died in 1975)
4.2 : Elsie Yvonnie Peelman ( born in 1913 in Footscray - died in Rochester, Victoria in 1937). She married William Andrew Leith
4.3 : Valda Tyrell Peelman
5. Elsie May Peelman (born in Footscray in 1893 and died in 1977)
I hope this data could be intresting for you. If you neef further information, please contact me. I Am intresten in all information in the Peelman family in Australia and the UK.
Eric P. Peelman
31 chemin du Roc Rouge
34600 Bédarieux
France