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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Berkshire => Topic started by: gbugden on Friday 24 July 09 04:32 BST (UK)

Title: Daniel New convict
Post by: gbugden on Friday 24 July 09 04:32 BST (UK)
Hello
I have hit a brick wall in my research for this Berkshire ancestor. I can't identify his parents or exact location in Berkshire.

I know that he arrived in Sydney Australia as a convict April 9 1835 aboard the "Lady Nugent". From the Indent of Convicts, his number was 35/965. He was aged 26 (ie born c.1809), he could read and write, he was a Protestant and single. His native place was Berkshire where he was a farm servant and shepherd. He was found guilty of stealing grain at the Berkshire Assizes 25 Feb 1834 and sentenced to 7 years transportation. He had no former convictions.

Jackson's Oxford Journal, Saturday, March 8, 1834
BERKS ASSIZES
Sentenced for seven years...
Daniel New, charged with having stolen a quantity of barley and beans, the property of J. Webb.

The ship sailed 4 December 1834  from Sheerness and then from Deal December 7.  Jos. H. Fawcett  was master and Oliver Sproule was the surgeon.

Is anyone able to  use this information to help me locate his family or birth place? Would a trail record be available which might give me more information than the newspaper report?

Any scrap would be of assistance

Regards
Greg Bugden
AUSTRALIA
Title: Re: Daniel New convict
Post by: Vicwinann on Friday 24 July 09 08:12 BST (UK)
Hi Greg,
The English Assize Court records are at the NRO. Berks FHS has a page on their site telling how to access them.
http://www.berksfhs.org.uk/berkshire/AssizeRecords.htm
Unfortunately, from where you are, you would need to hire a researcher which is not cheap.

National Archives guide leaflets can be accessed from page http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/researchguidesindex.asp?WT.hp=Research%20guides%20A%20-%20Z&j=1

Click on one of the categories. This page would be probably the most useful for you
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/RdLeaflet.asp?sLeafletID=347

I hope these links work. If not, the National Archives site is http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/default.htm  click on "research guides"

Daniel New may not, of course, have originated in Berkshire. The IGI has a possible Daniel,  bap 21 Jan 1816 Childrey, son of Daniel and Jane.

Yours
Vicwinann
Title: Re: Daniel New convict
Post by: newburychap on Friday 24 July 09 15:40 BST (UK)
The English Assize Court records are at the NRO. Berks FHS has a page on their site telling how to access them.

Assize records are a bit hit and miss - you will be able to find basic information (ie what you already have from the paper).  Detailed trial records are scarce, though some do exist.

You might do better to follow the case before it reached the Assizes - local petty or quarter sessions would have committed him for trial at the assizes. He would have been held in gaol pending trial - probably in Reading. These records are at the Berks RO - and can be very detailed.

You could also check the Berkshire Mercury/Chronicle which may give a little more info than Jackson's Oxford Journal. 

You could check the 1841 census to see where the chap he stole from is living - might give some idea of where he was from.
Sadly you need to be in England to follow up these leads.


Did Daniel stay in Australia?  The News of Newbury included a Daniel or two - some of then emigrated to Oz 1900ish.
Title: Re: Daniel New convict
Post by: gbugden on Saturday 25 July 09 05:41 BST (UK)
Thank  you both for this useful advice. It gives me some useful leads to consider.  Daniel did in fact remain in Australia after he served his sentence. I hope to avoid paying a researcher for as long as possible in  order to minimise expenses. I'll certainly contact Berkshire RO and see if his records are there in any detail. The tip about the Berkshire Mercury/Chronicle is a good one too. Are you aware of online records for this?
Cheers
Greg
Title: Re: Daniel New convict
Post by: newburychap on Saturday 25 July 09 09:14 BST (UK)
I'm afraid the BRO may charge a fair bit for checking the court rolls - but its worth checking with them to see.

The Mercury is not available online - Reading Local Studies Library is the place to try. As you have the date of the Assizes (quick and easy to find) they may do a lookup for you for free.
Title: Re: Daniel New convict
Post by: gbugden on Saturday 25 July 09 09:46 BST (UK)
Thanks for the prompt reply.
I have sent inquiries to both the library and the BRO as you suggest. Perhaps I will have a response by the end of the week.
I'm very grateful to you for your constructive advice!
Regards
Greg
Title: Re: Daniel New convict
Post by: janjim on Wednesday 29 July 09 05:07 BST (UK)
I have to throw my two bob's worth in, my GGG Grandfather was Daniel New b. 1.5.1792 Ashbury, Berkshire.    There is much history on the New family around Newbury, Greater Faringdon, Ashbury which goes back as far as Thomas Nue b. 1650. The family around Greater Faringdon were Servants,
Yeoman, Shepherds.  Our Daniel New was one of 11 children, his parents Joseph New and Elizabeth (nee Hide)  Your Daniel could easily be one of any of the children of Daniel's siblings.

Check out  website www.rootsweb.com . go into World Connect Projects - then Family trees, you may find information there that can help you.

Our New family eventually migrated to Australia in 1912, having come from Newbury, Daniel & his wife Lucy moved there from Ashbury around the 1820's or so.

This may help you in some way, I'm only a novice on this website, but could not resist making contact.

jan



Title: Re: Daniel New convict
Post by: gbugden on Wednesday 29 July 09 11:06 BST (UK)
I am glad of the reply Jan, and your contribution. Any sort of information can be of use to me to solve the problem of Daniel's birth.

I have had a reply to my inquiry to the Berkshire RO (Thanks Newburychap!). They noted in a newspaper report of the time that DANIEL NEW was working on a farm in HURST, Berkshire, when he committed his crime. Is that  near the places where your NEWs lived? The newspaper report also indicated his age in 1834 was 24, so he must have been born c.1810.


Cheers
Greg
Title: Re: Daniel New convict
Post by: janjim on Wednesday 29 July 09 11:43 BST (UK)
Greg,

I really don't know much about Berkshire really, but looking at a map, Hurst is east of Reading,
how far that is from Newbury or Ashbury, I'm sure Newbury Chap will be able to give you more
information on that.   

jan
Title: Re: Daniel New convict
Post by: Marmaduke 123 on Wednesday 29 July 09 12:19 BST (UK)
Don't know whether this helps or not, but Hurst parish records are online at the Hurst Village society website:

www.hvs.org.uk

There is also a lot of other historical information on the Hurst CD - also online, linked from the website.

There is a Daniel and Elizabeth New having children baptised in the early 1800s and late 1700s, but they don't have a son Daniel, not baptised there anyway. Worth a look maybe?

Anne
Title: Re: Daniel New convict
Post by: newburychap on Thursday 30 July 09 01:17 BST (UK)
Considering that Daniel is not a particularly common forename it does crop up a lot in the News. Makes me suspect that they could be linked.

Hurst is a fair way from Newbury and further from Ashbury, but people travelled a lot further.

janjim - another Newbury New publican for you: Daniel New licensee of the Coach & Horses, 1840 (I don't think he has cropped up before).
Title: Re: Daniel New convict
Post by: janjim on Monday 03 August 09 06:01 BST (UK)
Newbury chap,
Do you have any more details on this Daniel New, Licensee of the Coath & Horses? Any possible age, probably need to look up Census info for 1841

jan
Title: Re: Daniel New convict
Post by: Eyesee on Tuesday 04 August 09 12:39 BST (UK)
The England & Wales Criminal Registers 1791-1892 are a recent addition to A******y, and are searchable.

Daniel New is listed as 24, Tried Lent Assizes 1834 in Berkshire for Larceny. Sentenced to 7 years transportation.

Ian C
Title: Re: Daniel New convict
Post by: gbugden on Wednesday 05 August 09 07:13 BST (UK)
Excellent Ian, thanks. Another source to check on and the possibility of other leads coming to light. I do appreciate  your time on this!
Regards

Greg
Title: Re: Daniel New convict
Post by: newburychap on Friday 07 August 09 11:46 BST (UK)
Newbury chap,
Do you have any more details on this Daniel New, Licensee of the Coath & Horses? Any possible age, probably need to look up Census info for 1841

No more info apart from the source - Robson's Directory, 1840 (as extracted for www.deadpubs.co.uk).

I haven't found the Coach & Horses in the 1841 census yet - whoever is there is giving a non-pub occupation :(.
Title: Re: Daniel New convict
Post by: newburychap on Friday 07 August 09 13:37 BST (UK)
I haven't found the Coach & Horses in the 1841 census yet - whoever is there is giving a non-pub occupation :(.

A bit of hunting and the best I can come up with for the Coach & Horses in John States, innkeeper at unnamed premises in Cheap St. Irritatingly the Coach & Horses is used in the district description to help define the area but not shown in the enumeration.
Title: Re: Daniel New convict
Post by: janjim on Sunday 16 August 09 08:07 BST (UK)
Thanks Newbury Chap for your input anyway, most appreciated

Jan
Title: Re: Daniel New convict
Post by: newburychap on Sunday 16 August 09 11:33 BST (UK)
Jan - Here's evidence of a Daniel New, presumably another piece in your jigsaw.
Title: Re: Daniel New convict
Post by: janjim on Sunday 16 August 09 13:49 BST (UK)
Thanks for this Newbury Chap,
Inspector Morse on the go again !!!    It's been such a journey with this family, my Dad talked so much about this family in Newbury, wish I'd taken more notice of him when he told these long drawn out stories.   Now he has passed, I've found out so much more

jan
Title: Re: Daniel New convict
Post by: newburychap on Wednesday 19 August 09 12:14 BST (UK)
And another New - George.  I suspect this is the predecessor of New Bros.


Title: Re: Daniel New convict
Post by: janjim on Wednesday 19 August 09 20:00 BST (UK)
Hi Newbury Chap,

Thanks once again, I'm not sure where the Corn Dealers fit into our New family.   I just wish I could find more details on why our News came from Ashbury and settled in Newbury.  The only thing we know is that they were certainly there in the 1820's.

That detail you last sent me on Daniel New, selling horses, I feel that he is the Daniel New b. 1831 at Chieveley, who was a Butcher Farmer, as by 1876 our Daniel New had died.

jan
Title: Re: Daniel New convict
Post by: newburychap on Thursday 20 August 09 00:56 BST (UK)
That detail you last sent me on Daniel New, selling horses, I feel that he is the Daniel New b. 1831 at Chieveley, who was a Butcher Farmer, as by 1876 our Daniel New had died.

Whoever he was for a period in the 1870s he was an auctioneer there are plenty of similar adverts.
Title: Re: Daniel New convict
Post by: newburychap on Thursday 20 August 09 18:04 BST (UK)
Seems like you are right about the Chieveley connection ...
Title: Re: Daniel New convict
Post by: janjim on Friday 21 August 09 02:55 BST (UK)
Hi Newbury chap,
this is all great information, what website do you use to get this, or do you have access through the Berkshire Museum.
It would be interesting to know more about our New family.    Our Daniel New's son John New who married Ellen Thorn was a Policeman in London for 10 years, and he was very badly injured and pensioned out of the Police Force, and returned to Newbury to live.    We managed to get a lot of information on him in London.

Also Edmund New (John's son) of the Two Brewers Inn, his son Edmund Walter New was killed on the Lambourn Valley Railway, as was his mate, when they were 13 years of age,  have got a copy of newspaper article on this, from another Roots chatter.

Jan
Title: Re: Daniel New convict
Post by: newburychap on Friday 21 August 09 17:57 BST (UK)
this is all great information, what website do you use to get this, or do you have access through the Berkshire Museum.
I am researching Newbury pubs - part of which involves trawling through the local paper, which has resulted in the recent posts.  I do this in Newbury Library (the papers are on microfilm), sadly the papers have not been digitised.

There is no index, I just go through the paper, week by week picking up pub related items and anything else that catches my eye.  Finding anything specific wiithout a reasonable idea of the date is almost impossible.  On Tuesday I went through the papers for 1883, next visit I will look at 1884 - its a long process, especially if I get too interested and start reading too many non-pub articles.

Title: Re: Daniel New convict
Post by: coraltrout on Saturday 09 January 10 16:01 GMT (UK)
Hi
I am also a descendant of Daniel New
You will see on the NSW BDM index 2
Marriages to Alice Halloren
1842 Sydney ,NSW, Australia
Presbyterian Church

1844 Marriage to Alice Halloren
Sydney,  New South Wales, Australia
V18442137 93/1844 LD Roman Catholic Church
Alice was Catholic

They married in both churches
Have you found his parents or birth as yet ?
I also have had no luck


Coraltrout
Title: Re: Daniel New convict
Post by: janjim on Thursday 21 January 10 20:50 GMT (UK)
Hi,
Going out to check Ramornie Cemetery today, near Grafton, see if we can find any details there
to assist you all on Daniel New
janjim
Title: Re: Daniel New convict
Post by: coraltrout on Thursday 21 January 10 22:11 GMT (UK)
Hi,
Going out to check Ramornie Cemetery today, near Grafton, see if we can find any details there
to assist you all on Daniel New
janjim
Hi
Thank you for that I have been informed that vandals (grrr )have destroyed some/most of the headstones there not long ago
I hope you wont be too disappointed
if you need a copy of any photo of a headstone there please ask I took photos in 2008

coraltrout
Title: Re: Daniel New convict
Post by: janjim on Thursday 21 January 10 22:18 GMT (UK)
Hi coral trout,
Thanks for this information, it's just that we are going to be in Grafton today, was going to ring the Historical Society to check out the cemetery first, but if it is no longer there, no point in going.
Especially if you already have a photo of Daniel New's grave, I had already offered to take a photo for Greg.

regards

jan
Title: Re: Daniel New convict
Post by: gbugden on Wednesday 22 December 10 03:19 GMT (UK)
Hi,
Going out to check Ramornie Cemetery today, near Grafton, see if we can find any details there
to assist you all on Daniel New
janjim
Hi
Thank you for that I have been informed that vandals (grrr )have destroyed some/most of the headstones there not long ago
I hope you wont be too disappointed
if you need a copy of any photo of a headstone there please ask I took photos in 2008

coraltrout


Hi Coraltrout
I have continued to look for information on Daniel New and his parentage. I now know he was on the Prison hulk Ganymede where he gave an age of 31. this is one of a variety of ages that make the search for is birth quite difficult. However, re-rea
ding your post reminded me that you have  a grave photo. I wonder if i can have a copy? It would be great to have an image that can go into the tree.
Cheers Greg
Title: Re: Daniel New convict
Post by: cardol on Tuesday 30 August 11 02:39 BST (UK)
Hi coraltrout
I would love any photos that you have of the headstones at Ramornie Cemetery. I think the Clarence Valley Council has now closed it to public access.

I guess also by now vandals have destroyed what was left.
A lot of cemeteries in the Clarence Valley are suffering the same fate.

Thanks

Cardol



Title: Re: Daniel New convict
Post by: janjim on Tuesday 30 August 11 02:47 BST (UK)
Coraltrout,
Me too, if you still have these photos available.

janjim
Title: Re: Daniel New convict
Post by: janjim on Sunday 05 August 18 00:26 BST (UK)
Hi,

I know this posting goes a long way back, just wondering if we managed to get a photo of the Headstone of Daniel New a Ramornie Cemetery please.    With DNA matching now available, we feel we may have a family connection with this Daniel New.

Regards
Jan

Hi coraltrout
I would love any photos that you have of the headstones at Ramornie Cemetery. I think the Clarence Valley Council has now closed it to public access.

I guess also by now vandals have destroyed what was left.
A lot of cemeteries in the Clarence Valley are suffering the same fate.

Thanks

Cardol