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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Pembrokeshire => Wales => Pembrokeshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: K Rees on Saturday 25 July 09 15:26 BST (UK)
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May I have assistance in asking for a 1861 Census look up please for Mary Thomas 28 years Born Narbeth Pembrokeshire location:15 House 35.
In 1841 Census, Mary Lee Thomas (7) is with her parents at Beau Street, Everton the Rev. James Hughes Thomas and Sarah Rees.
In 1851, there are 3 possibilities for an 18 year old Mary Thomas in Pembrokeshire, but in 1861 Census only one Mary Thomas 28 year Born in Narbeth and now living in Pembrokeshire. So I thought that I should start with this girl, and where and who she is living with?
Keith Aus
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Hi
1861 RG9 piece 4157 Folio 32 Page 9
Mary Thomas born 1833 Narbeth Pemb is a servant at Thrustle (?) Mill Stackploe Elidor
John Simon 54 Mason/Farmer
Margaret Simon 56
Mark Simon 15
Thomas Simon 13
Alfred Simon 10
plus 4 more servants
Jan
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Thank you very much for your search Jan.
I was hoping that she may have been with names that I might recognise, but I will not give up.I will check out these details - location and the Simon's to see if any other clue shows up.
Regards and thanks,
Keith
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Hi Keith
Unfortunately quiet a lot of 1861 census for Narberth enumeration district is missing.
I have the same problem with my 2xGreatgrandparents.I know where they were`nt living but dont know where they were living in 1861.The Farm they were living on in 1851 was uninhabited in 1861 ???
Omega
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Thank you Omega for your response.
Do you have any access to the 1851 Census by any chance?
I have the 1841 Census, which has Mary Thomas alive and able.
Keith
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Sorry Keith,i know longer subscribe to the web site.
Hopefully someone will be able to help
Omega.
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Thank you any way Omega.
I see that you have Llewellin and Gibby of Pembroke, on your family connections.
Martha b. 1818 Dale married George Manning Rees Dec 1840 Pembroke Dock.
As for the Gibby - Morris Gibby married Sarah Morris 7/3/1814 and I could offer their kids. One family of Gibby, get a mention with Rev. James Hughes Thomas and his first marriage.
Keith
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Hi Keith
Re my Gibby line.
I will PM yoy will the info i have
Omega :)
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Hi Keith
Very hard to find your THOMAS family as described in 1841 - but -
HO 107/519/5, F57, P10 (Upper Beau Street, Everton, Liverpool) has:
James THOMAS, 50, Baptist Minister, N
Sarah THOMAS, 40, -, N
Herbert THOMAS, 15, Tanner, N
Edna THOMAS, 14, -, N
Mary THOMAS, 7, -, N
Manning? THOMAS, 6, -, N
Elizabeth DAVIES, 25, Female Servant, N
In 1851 HO 107/2477, F121, P32 (Back Street, Milford, Pembs) has:
Benjamin JONES, H, M, 72, Pensioner, Customs?, Llandeteon?, Pembs
Martha JONES, W, M, 76, -, Marloes, Pembs
James H. THOMAS, Lodger, M, 59, Baptist Minister, Llandiecha?, Pembs
Sarah A. THOMAS, Lodger, M, 51, -, Glo(uce)ster, Gloucestershire
Sorry, I've no idea what the two place names beginning LLan might be.
Assuming these are the right people, what information would you like about Mary THOMAS in 1851? Do you know that the 1861 person is the daughter? Might she have married by then?
Diana
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Hi Diana,
Thank you very much for your help.
First, did your reading of HO 107/519/5 list Henry Thomas (7) as well, as I thought that Henry was there, and mis-interpreted as Henry Thomas instead of Henry Rees (7) ? This could be Sarah Rees' nephew, my direct ancestor.
Your second entry for James and Sarah would be correct. I will need to check out the head of the household to see if they are related or just parishoners, putting up the minister and his wife.
In 1861, they are at 14 Robert Street, Milford.
I would say that Llan stands for Llanstadwell, close to Milford, as he went back to preach in Milford. Knowing old ministers here in Ballarat, they have to keep going until they die, as there is still a shortage.
I have no idea of the where abouts of Mary Thomas and Manning (or maybe his name is David Manning Thomas) in 1861. Records indicate that his first Manning died 6 Jun 1833 and she had a David born in 17 Sep 1834. These are Sarah's children. Herbert and Edna (or Eliza) are James Hughes Thomas' chn.
I am trying to search Sarah's chn to see if I can further add to the Rees line. So I have no idea of there wherabouts in 1851.
Is there any chance that the writing of Herbert Thomas' occupation is seaman? My Henry joined the merchant navy at some stage, as he jumped ship in ship where his mother was living with his older sister in the later 1840's. His uncle Lt. William Lee Rees was in the navy.
Regards,
Keith
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Hi Keith
In 1841 (HO 107/519/5) I can’t see a Henry with the THOMAS family in Walton on The Hill, Everton. Is it possible he’s with his own parents?
With regard to Herbert, I think you are right that what I read as “Tanner” is in fact “Seaman” – sorry about that.
I’ll look to see if I can identify Mary and David/Manning in 1851 & 1861. I’ve also sent you a PM.
Regards,
Diana
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Diana,
I have sent you an email with Gibby notes attached. If should be there by now.
Keith
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In regards to Henry Rees b. 1828 Pembroke, no I can't find his mother Martha Rees b. 1791, nor his sister Elizabeth Lee Rees b. 1831, Pembroke nor his brother Frederic b. 1829 in the 1841. As for Henry Rees, he would be in the merchant navy during 1851. He jumps ship 11 May 1852 in New South Wales.
Martha and Fred and ELiz arrived in Aus., from London. in 1844 aboard the Archilles. I thought that she may have gone back to her family Samuel Tomkins, merchant of London, but I can;t find them there either.
Keith
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To Penholder (Diana) and other great helpers.
I have found Henry Rees b. 1828 (Milford?) in the 1841 Census. He was with his mother Martha and siblings Frederic and Elizabeth in St. Augustine, Bristol, but under a mis transcription - Martha Rus for Rees, which is understandable, if the two e's were not written clearly. I knew that another daughter Mary Ann was a governess with Josiah Gettens, so I took a guess that her mother might be near by and then went through 1841 Census St. Augustine the Less, page by page. But there is more ..... Mary Ann Rees was written as Maria Gittins, as they had married in 1840.
I will need to ask if anyone has access to Parish records in the Milford/Llanstadwell/Rosemarket area?
If Henry's brother Samuel Tomkins Rees was born 27 Sep 1826, Westbury Hill (farm near Rosemarket) and Frederic Rees was born Apr 1829 at Pembroke and baptised Llanstadwell 31 Jan 1830, then my Henry had to be born /baptised 1828 and somewhere in that area.
Anyone able to assist with some suggestions of my next method of attack?
The David Rees and Esther Venables of Westbury Hill, and then later Rosemarket are definately their uncle and aunty. The parents of these kids - John Rees and Martha Tomkins were also living at Westbury Hill, before he died at Loo Choo Farm, St. David's Road, Haverfordwest in 1838.
John Rees was a solicitor. Is there a newspaper of the 1820/30's that I should look up?
Regards,
Keith
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To Penholder (Diana) and other great helpers.
I have found Henry Rees b. 1828 (Milford?) in the 1841 Census. He was with his mother Martha and siblings Frederic and Elizabeth in St. Augustine, Bristol, but under a mis transcription - Martha Rus for Rees, which is understandable, if the two e's were not written clearly. I knew that another daughter Mary Ann was a governess with Josiah Gettens, so I took a guess that her mother might be near by and then went through 1841 Census St. Augustine the Less, page by page. But there is more ..... Mary Ann Rees was written as Maria Gittins, as they had married in 1840.
I will need to ask if anyone has access to Parish records in the Milford/Llanstadwell/Rosemarket area?
If Henry's brother Samuel Tomkins Rees was born 27 Sep 1826, Westbury Hill (farm near Rosemarket) and Frederic Rees was born Apr 1829 at Pembroke and baptised Llanstadwell 31 Jan 1830, then my Henry had to be born /baptised 1828 and somewhere in that area.
Anyone able to assist with some suggestions of my next method of attack?
The David Rees and Esther Venables of Westbury Hill, and then later Rosemarket are definately their uncle and aunty. The parents of these kids - John Rees and Martha Tomkins were also living at Westbury Hill, before he died at Loo Choo Farm, St. David's Road, Haverfordwest in 1838.
John Rees was a solicitor. Is there a newspaper of the 1820/30's that I should look up?
Regards,
Keith
Keith
PM me with your Milford ~ Steyton ~ Rosemarket parish register etc., requirements. For future reference John Simon of St Petrox Pembrokeshire married Margaret Thomas at Llandilo Fawr Carmarthenshire 19th Feb 1935
Rgds
Orielbenfro
ORIEL a welsh window on a surname
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Keith
IGI ~ Samuel Tomkins Rees baptized 08 Nov 1826 to John & Martha Rees at Rosemarket 08 Nov 1826. Parish register shows “Samuel Jenkins Rees”.
Henry Rees baptized 1825 at Hubberston to George & Lettice, or 1828 at Steyton
Henry Rees baptized 1836 at Pembroke St Michael
From my transcription of the complete Parish Registers of Pembroke St Michael 1711 to 1950’s and looking at the register which covers Baptisms 1813 to 1836 I note
30 Dec 1836 Henry to George & Jemina Rees baptized (not yrs then)
From my transcription of the complete Parish Registers of Pembroke St Mary 1711 to 1950’s and looking at the register which covers Baptisms 1822 to 1847
18 June 1826 Martha to John & Martha Rees of the Dock a Sawyer baptized by C. Phillips.
((Note this is the only baptism to a John & Martha Rees in either Pembroke St Mary or St Michael)).
Mary Anne Rees baptized at Steyton 1820.
Frederick Rees was baptized at Llandstadwell in 1830
This may cause some headscatching
A John Rees married Martha Jenkins at H’west St Martin 26th July 1834. or
A John Rees of Narberth married Martha Lewis At St Issells 22 Feb 1814 or more lightly can be totally ignored.
Rgds
Oreilbenfro
ORIEL a welsh window on a surname
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Hi Keith
It's nice to know that you are still having some success with your research.
As it happens I was already going to the British Museum Newspaper Library at Colindale today, so I had a look to see if they had anything which might cover the dates you are interested in. I'm afraid the earliest Pembrokeshire paper I could see was the Pembrokeshire Herald and General Advertiser, which started in 1844. A pity as they did have some births, marriages and deaths in the much later (1879) copies I was looking at.
From enquiries I have made previously on these boards I don't think that there is a more extensive collection of Pembrokeshire papers held locally, but I'm happy to be proved wrong!
Regards,
Diana
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Orielbenfro and Penholder
Once again, many thanks to you both.
Oriel - you have found my ancestor Henry's baptism for sure. I will gladly accept 18 June 1826. Sawyer will definitely be lawyer based on the way s and l were often read and knowing that the father was a lawyer. Likewise with Jenkins and Tomkins - I could see that as being misinterpretated. Martha was Tomkins from London. Her mother is supposed to be an illegit of George 111, but then that is another story.
Your information may mean that I will need to reverse birth orders for Henry and Samuel.
Do you have the records in front of you? Meaning does Frederick baptised Llandstadwell confirm to John and Martha Rees and a date for 1831?
As for the David Rees, it pushes his birthdate earlier to 1822, but he is/was a mystery. We know that he 'left the academy where he was being educated for a civil engineer and became an apprective seaman when his father died (1838). My guess now, after my research, is that the academy may be George Pocock's Prospect Academy in St. Michael's Hill, Bristol. Two of this boy's uncles and one of his aunties married three of George Pocock's children.
If not, I am much appreciative of the above information.
Regards,
Keith Rees Aus
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Oriel - you have found my ancestor Henry's baptism for sure. I will gladly accept 18 June 1826. Sawyer will definitely be lawyer based on the way s and l were often read and knowing that the father was a lawyer. Likewise with Jenkins and Tomkins - I could see that as being misinterpretated. Martha was Tomkins from London.
Keith
I am pleased that between us all we have gone some way to furthering your research, however I am somewhat skeptical at the error of Sawyer for Lawyer. I am well versed over many many years at reading 19th century English and the earlier 'old english' hand written documents ~ 16th/17th century wills are the best fun.
At this early stage in the development of the town of Pembroke Dock I am pretty sure there where no lawyers in Pembroke Dock, as a sawyer this John Rees would have been well employed in the enlargement of the Docks as more incomers developed the Docks and Town which started life in 1814 but only became the town of Pembroke Dock in 1817. Richard Rose in his book Pembroke People makes no mention of Lawyers in the few streets and houses that had only just been built. Richard makes mention of one John Rees a Sawyer enter in June 1814 aged 23 discharged 1817 for disobedience to orders, also listed are Joseph and Thomas Rees, see page 111 and 112 of Pembroke People.
I’m off to the Record Office Thursday 4th Feb so will double check my sources and confirm the details that you ask, also I would like to check out David Rees baptized at Rosemarket 1821.
The only Lawyers/Solicitors around at this time lived in Main Street Pembroke and where all members of the Borough Council.
There seems to be some confusion 08 Nov 1826 is the baptism of Samuel Jenkins Rees not Henry. I hope to confirm that Henry was baptized at Steyton in 1828 as I can not find any other Henry to fit your requirements.
Rgds
Orielbenfro
ORIEL a welsh window on a surname
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Sorry Oriel,
I got carried away and mis-read your information. Your research means that John and Martha Rees have had another child in a daughter Martha 18 Jun 1826 Dock (PembrokeDock?) and has obviously died soon after as she is not mentioned again.
1841 Census has Henry 13 and Frederick 12, so that still leaves Henry born c1827/28 and Frederick about April 1829 at Pembroke.
Regards,
Keith
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In regards to Henry Rees b. 1828 Pembroke, no I can't find his mother Martha Rees b. 1791, nor his sister Elizabeth Lee Rees b. 1831, Pembroke nor his brother Frederic b. 1829 in the 1841. As for Henry Rees, he would be in the merchant navy during 1851. He jumps ship 11 May 1852 in New South Wales.
Martha and Fred and ELiz arrived in Aus., from London. in 1844 aboard the Archilles. I thought that she may have gone back to her family Samuel Tomkins, merchant of London, but I can;t find them there either.
Keith
Keith
Llanstadwell Baptism Register
Born 21 Apr 1829 baptised 31 Jan 1830 Frederic to John & Martha Rees of Nayland(sic) no occupation shown.
Steyton Baptism Register
20 Apr 1820 Mary Ann Rees to George & Ann Rees (not yrs)
Born 20 Jan 1828 Baptised 18 May 1828 Henry to John & Martha Rees of Stainton a Schoolmaster.
Rosemarket Baptism Register for the period 1812 to 1826 is not held at the Pembs Record Office, so presume that full details can only be obtained from B.T.’s held at the NLoW.
Rgds
Owen Vaughan
ORIEL a welsh window on a surname
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Much appreciated for your assistance Owen.
The occupation of school teacher has thrown me a little. Lawyer to school teacher back to lawyer. Although teaching is one of the professions for many of his family as three of John Rees' siblings married three children of George Pocock, school master of Prospect Academy, St. Michael's Hill, Bristol. Many of his 12 chn and spouses were in the teaching games as well.
Depending on how much trouble this is causing you, is there an occupation given for John (and Martha) when the last child known, that of Elizabeth Lee Rees was born. Many years ago another family member had recorded her b. 1 May 1831. But I do not have the Parish.
If not, I have certainly appreciated your extra assistance.
Regards,
Keith
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Hi Owen,
Using Family Search, I have found a highly possible bap for Elizabeth Rees to John Rees and Martha
bp 29/5/1831 #C081071 St. Martin Parish Haverfordwest.
St. Martin Parish is the known Parish of his father David Rees of Green Hill/Derby Farm and Merlins Hill
Keith
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Interesting as Merlins Hill is in the parish of H'west St Thomas not St Martin. Confirm the baptism of Elizabeth.
Providing I have enough research required to warrent I can make a trip up next week.
Rgds
Orielbenfro
ORIEL a welsh window on a surname
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Hi Owen,
No, we do not have enough evidence for you to go out of your way. The movements of John Rees and his wife Martha Tomkins are certainly very much "a journeyman lawyer".
John Rees b. 13 Feb 1792 Haverfordwest to David Rees and Mary Lee.
His brother: Wm Lee Rees (Lt) bp 3 Jun 1795 St. Martins Haverfordwest to David and Mary.
With your assistance and other researched information John married 1810 in London (both students continued studies Law?), returned to Haverfordwest with a daughter Mary Ann born in London 1820, and started to have their other kids Westbury Hill, Rosemarket, Llanstadwell, Neyland and looks like Steynton area. He was left the annual rent from Green Hill in 1837/38; his father lived at Merlins Hill (death 1837),also owned Derby Farm and Trenewyd. But John died 4 June 1838 at Loo Choo, a house on the St. Davids Road just outside of H/West. He owed 500 pounds to the Bishop. So it can only be a guess that the Elizabeth Rees bp 29 May 1831 at St. Martins is his daughter.
Would you like me to send you a brief?
Regards,
Keith Rees
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Elizabeth Lee Rees was baptised Haverfordwest St Martin 29th May 1831 to John & Martha Rees of Gloucester Place Haverfordwest. There is no occupation shown nor vicar conducting the service.
Supply me an email address by PM I have an interesting jpeg for you.
Rgds
Orielbenfro
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Thank you Orielbreno for the baptism find for Elizabeth Lee Rees in Haverfordwest. Interesting no occupation, likewise Gloucester Place is also yet another clue for me to working on.
I am convinced that the William Rees solicitor will be his uncle and maybe his sponsor when John Rees was schooling and learning law in London.
Your assistance is much appreciated.
Regards,
Keith Rees Aus
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Thank you to all who have assisted.
The death of Mary Lee Thomas has now been located.
Death Certificate
Mary Lee Thomas died on 20 Dec 1848 at Church Lane, Wycombe. She was 15 years old and died of typhus. Her fther was recorded as James Hide [incorrect Hughes] Thomas Baptist Minister. The informant was Jesse Hobson in attendance Church Lane, Wycombe. He was the principal of the school and Baptist Minister of the church.
Newspaper article:The Principality 29 Dec 1848
On the 20th. Inst., at High Wycombe, Bucks. aged 15 years, Mary Lee, youngest daughter of the Rev. J.H. Thomas Baptist Minister, Milford Haven.
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The death of her brother Manning Lee Thomas has also been located. Persistent pays off, thanks to Ginny.
15 Aug 1854 Cincinnati, Ohio
Also Welsh newspaper; however, sorry, I don't have the reference. Father named as Rev. J.H. Thomas
There is one record of Manning L. Thomas, aged 18 years, a grocer Country to which he belonged: England leaving Newport, Wales aboard the ship "Probey", on the 20 Apr 1852 bound for New Orleans, Louisianna, USA. His name is with a Thomas Phillips, 18 year old farmer.