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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: adrian7886 on Friday 14 August 09 11:34 BST (UK)
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Hello
I am trying to find out something about my paternal Grandfather.
From 1920 onwards my Grandmother was living at 15 Osborne Road Petersfield. Her name was Annie Louisa Smith (nee Brown)
She had three children from 1920 on one of which was my father. I know all of his siblings and have birth certs. Some were born prior to 1920 to a different father
The three from 1920 onwards do not have a father on the birth cert but all have the middle name Bonner
The electoral roles show that from 1919 to 1923 an Edward Bonner was also living at 15 Osborne Road Petersfield so I'm pretty sure he was the father but that's all I know.
I can find no records of them ever being married and on Annie's death cert she is shown as Widow of Edward Smith which makes no sense. Her death was registered by my father.
With so little to go on what could I do to find out more about Edward Bonner?
The maternal side of my Fathers family tree is coming along nicely but the paternal side is proving more of a challenge. It stops with Edward
Hope you can help
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There is a marriage between an Edward Bonner and Annie L. Smith listed in the Sept. quarter of 1920 at Petersfield, Hampshire. Surely this must be your couple?
Perhaps he wasn't actually free to marry her (i.e. bigamous) so she reverted back to the Smith name.
Purchasing this certificate is surely a must to enable you to move on.
Annette
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Reference
September quarter 1920, vol 2c page 502
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There is a marriage between an Edward Bonner and Annie L. Smith listed in the Sept. quarter of 1920 at Petersfield, Hampshire. Surely this must be your couple?
Perhaps he wasn't actually free to marry her (i.e. bigamous) so she reverted back to the Smith name.
Purchasing this certificate is surely a must to enable you to move on.
Annette
Thank you very much
But what I dont understand is why he is not named as the father on any birth certs and why on Annies death she is "widow of Edward Smith"
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But what I dont understand is why he is not named as the father on any birth certs and why on Annies death she is "widow of Edward Smith"
Was there a first marriage (which took her from Brown to Smith)? Perhaps she disowned Mr Bonner completely and pretended he hadn't happened.
Or perhaps Bonner/Smith were aliases for Edward.
Who was the informant on the death certificate? If not a close relative they may simply have had erroneous information.
As to why he didn't appear on the birth certs if he was there at the relevant times, I agree that is very peculiar indeed!
Anna
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Thnk you for your reply
There was first marriage. She was Brown then Smith. Her first husband died in 1918
The informant on her death cert in 1959 was my father Lionel Bonner Smith. He must have told the registrar that she was widow of Edward Smith.
She was always known as Granny Bonner by my older cousins. I was born sometime after her death.
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Are you saying that you want to trace Edward Bonner and that all you know about him is that he is on the electoral roll from 1919-1923, and that his surname is a middle name for your father and some of his siblings?
As Annette says that 1920 marriage certificate seems a must, although whether you can believe his father's name is a moot point.
Do you know (roughly) when and where he died? Or how old he was in 1920 (again, the marriage certificate would say)?
Did she carry on at that address after 1923 and he disappear (even though a daughter was born in 1924)?
The odd thing is that, although she was free to marry him (her first husband having died) and they did marry, the children were registered under her surname. It is possible that he was already married - she may not have known that at first - and it is possible that they fell out after 1923, but that doesn't explain the birth registers.
(There is another Bonner having children in Petersfield at the same time (mmn Venes) - although I can't find their marriage)
Richard
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Hello
Yes its Edward Im after
I have no idea when he died but I do have a vague memory of seeing a picture of Annie with a gentlemen in the back garden of Osborne Road that must have been taken around the 1940s early 50s as they were both quite old and holding lots of cats !!!!!
I know it to be Osborne road due to the view from the back garden.
The house was the family home from 1920ish right up until I moved out after my fathers death in 1977. The house was owned by my father as it was left to him in Annies will.
I know absolutley nothing about Edward apart from he lived at Osborne road in the early 20s
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Possible death:
Petersfield Mar 1949
Edward Bonner age 64
I don't know how accurate this age is.
The only Edward Bonner (no other names) that fits was born in Haslingden, Lancashire!, and the 1911 census clains that there aren't any Edward Bonners b Lancs.
Richard
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There is an Edward Bonner, 24, living in Portsmouth in 1911.
I haven't seen the original but, using the index, I think he is living with Louisa Bonner, 22; Jessie Bonner, 3; and Lily Bonner, 18m. He was there in 1901 as well, living with his family, where it shows he was born in Scotland (confirmed on the 1911). His parents were Daniel and Jane. Scotlands People have an Edward Bonner born in 1886 and 1887. He doesn't seem likely to be your Edward.
There is another Edward, 20, living in Southampton. He is a little young and I can't establish where he was born.
Richard
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Thank you all for your help
I think I should apply for the marraige and death certs suggested to see if they help
I will let you know my findings. There is something a bit fishy here. Why was E Bonner not on the birth certs, why was Annie named Smith on her death cert if she married a Bonner, why was she named as a widow of Edward Smith???
Unless she married for a third time ??? and its pure coincidence that she married someone with her first husbands surname and her second husbands christian name :-\ :-\
Thanks again
Adrian
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As a small addition, I have now established that the Edward Bonner living in Southampton was Edward John C Bonner (b 1881) who married Olive Cracknell in Southampton in 1914, although they don't appear to have had any children. He is the wrong age and I can't see her death.
Richard
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Although many flouted the rule I believe if the parents weren't legally married the father could not be named as such on the birth certificate.
I can only think that for some reason the marriage was found to be invalid (if Annie was definitely a widow then probably because Edward was already married) and maybe there will be a note of this on the marriage certificate. As Annie was living where she'd 'married' presumably she wouldn't be able to go and register her childrens births as Bonner when the registrars would know that for some reason her marriage to Edward Bonner had been declared to be invalid. So she had to register them in her previous name - Smith - and explains why each child was given the second name of Bonner.
Look forward to seeing what the certificates reveal.
Annette
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Possible death:
Petersfield Mar 1949
Edward Bonner age 64
I don't know how accurate this age is.
The only Edward Bonner (no other names) that fits was born in Haslingden, Lancashire!, and the 1911 census clains that there aren't any Edward Bonners b Lancs.
Richard
Hello
I found the record for the marriage but not the death record for Edward Bonner in 1949. Searched on Ancestry using Edward Bonner, died 1949 in Petersfield and various dates around that time but found nothing?
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On Ancestry - 1949, Q1 listing - B, image 63 of 118. Index page number 96.
Bonner, Edward 64 Petersfield vol6b pg441
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On Ancestry - 1949, Q1 listing - B, image 63 of 118. Index page number 96.
Bonner, Edward 64 Petersfield vol6b pg441
Thanks
I cant find him with my search????? Never had that issue before.
Strange
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The births and marriages are now searchable up to 2005 on ancestry, but you can only do that on the deaths after 1984 or before 1915 (free.bmd is now pretty good up to 1935). For deaths between c1935 and 1984 you have to search page by page. Is that the problem?
Richard
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Possible death:
Petersfield Mar 1949
Edward Bonner age 64
I don't know how accurate this age is.
The only Edward Bonner (no other names) that fits was born in Haslingden, Lancashire!, and the 1911 census clains that there aren't any Edward Bonners b Lancs.
Richard
Hello
I have applied for the certs and will up date the board with my findings.
The Edward Bonner born in Lanc 1885 tragically died in 1886.
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Hello
Well I have the marriage cert.
Annie Louisa Smith married Edward Bonner July 1920. Both residing at 15 Osborne Road Petersfield. Confirmed as my Grandmother although she has been a creative with her age of 35. She was 80 when she died in 1959 ???.
Annie's father Edwin Brown customs house officer. This is correct although sometimes he was called Edward
Edward Bonner age 34, Father Daniel Bonner dockyard laborer.
Witnessed by Edwin Brown and what looks like Charles Bonner.
I'm still left with some mystery though.
Why Edward Bonner is not named as the father on my fathers and some of his siblings birth certs?
Why on Annie's death cert registered by my father she is widow of Edward Smith?
Why my family name is Smith and not Bonner?
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Think I found the Bonners in the 1901 Census living in Portmouth. Edward was 13 Charles his brother was 3.
I have a bit of French and Scottish blood in me...... ;D