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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Lanarkshire => Topic started by: stuartroxy on Saturday 15 August 09 11:29 BST (UK)
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When my gggf Hugh Roxburgh (or Rock or O'Rourk!) died in 1870, his wife Elizabeth remarried Peter Gee, taking with her my ggf James and his brother William to the Gee family. I looked up the Gee family in the Census' of 1861 and was surprised to discover 3 Gee families in the same house. All were born in England (with the exception of the 2 youngest sons) and all the males were glass bottle blowers. There was also another English family of glass bottle blowers in the same street.
They were:
John Gee (30) with his wife Mary (30) and their Glaswegian son William (7).
Robert Gee (22) with his wife Rebecca (20) and their Glaswegian son William (2).
William Gee (57) with his wife Ellen (47) and their Engllish children Joseph (20), Elizabeth (18), Peter (17), Thomas (13) and James (10).
Also in the Street were Isaac and Alice Ashton. There were no Scottish glass bottle blowers in the street.
If the Gees were all related (possibly a leap of faith?), why were a load of English glass bottle blowers living in Glasgow?
Stuartroxy
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I guess that I have run out of luck.
Thanks for looking.
stuartroxy
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Hi Stuart :)
From Ancestry trees:
Robert Gee, a glass blower, was originally from Manchester (b. 1839, 1 Mar). His parents are given as William Gee (b. 1809 ST Helens Lancashire) wife Ellen. He married Rebecca Barber (b. 1832 Warrington, Cheshire) in Jan 1858 in Blythswood Glasgow. One son showing to them is a William Gee (1858 - 1923). Ellen Gee is showing as a widow by 1871 living at 30 Canal Street,Glasgow
Robert is the main line that has been followed through to descendents...the glass blower is a BIG clue that we have the right family ;D
Monica :)
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The Gees in 1851 - everyone born in Manchester apart from those shown:
William Gee 41, glass blower b. St Helens
Helen Gee 31 b. St Helens
John Gee 19, glass maker b. St Helens
Alice Gee 18 b. Prescott
William Gee 15, glass maker
Robert Gee 12, glass maker
Joseph Gee 9
Elizabeth Gee 7
Peter Gee 6
Thomas Gee 2
James Gee 6 Months
HO107; Piece: 2225; Folio: 190; Page: 39
A family of glass blowers and workers as you thought :)
Monica
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Ellen mother does look like a widow by 1871 - everyone born in England:
Ellen Gee 56
Peter Gee 27, Glass Bottle Blomca (blower you would think ::))
Thomas Gee 22 Glass Bottle Blower
James Gee 20, Apprentice Bottle Blower
John Horton 26, boarder, Glass Bottle Blower
Address: 30 Canal Street, Glasgow Barony
And a few more children for Robert and Rebecca by 1871:
Robt Gee 32, glass blower b. Manchester
Rebecca Gee 38 b. Wasermone (probably Warrington from what we have!)
Wm Gee 12
George Gee 10
Ellen Gee 4
Robt Gee 1
Address: 3 Broomhill St, Glasgow Barony
Monica
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Interesting Google book ref to Glassworks in Glasgow in the period you are looking at http://tiny123.com/1lr
This description fits well with the Gee glass blowing family and explains why all/most of the sons seem to have followed their father to this trade:
The simpler stages of production were carried out by the less skilled, younger members of the team, and the later, more sophisticated stages by the skilled craftsmen. Thus, by progressing from the simple to the complex the young apprentices gained the experience necessary for them to become skilled glass workers. Initially, the young apprentices were engaged in menial tasks such as wiping the blow-pipes before the metal was gathered from the pots, or holding a shield, probably a shovel, to protect the gatherer's face from the intense heat. Nevertheless, such youths considered themselves fortunate. To become a skilled glass maker one had generally to be born into the trade, since the skilled workmen, aware of their scarcity value, attempted to keep the secrets of their trade within their own family, and so prevent 'outsiders' from entering it. Thus, having first gained entry to the trade and then completed their apprenticeship, normally seven years, the youths emerged as skilled crown glass manufacturers, often specialising in blowing or in flashing the molten glass.
Taken from "The Operation of a Glassworks in the industrial revolution" www.dumbarton-online.com/glass.htm
...And www.scotlandsglass.co.uk/cms/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=59&Itemid=56
Stuart, I've learnt a lot this evening about the history of glassworks in Scotland ;D
Monica
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Monica,
As I have said on a number of occasions, you are a star! Thanks very much.
The Gee's are not blood relations, but they did look after my great-great-grandad!
stuartroxy
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Monica,
Whilst looking into the detail that you supplied, I do not think that it is such a huge leap of faith to place Alice and Isaac Ashton into the Gee family; Alice is the right age to be the Prescot born Alice Gee and, as you found out, glass work is a family business!
stuartroxy
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Oh, I see what you mean....and, yes, you are right, they married in Glasgow :) From IGI:
ISAAC ASHTON and ALICE GEE
Marriage: 14 MAY 1860 in Milton, Glasgow
Monica
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you're too quick for me ;)
Thanks!
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hi all good blowers would be able to move anywhere to work, a few years ago the glassworks i worked in cornings sunderland theygot a load of new work they searched all over to get skilled workers they came from scotland norfollk ireland and even denmark whats has been said about lads working holding the shade (shield) knocking off or working the mould still went on whilst learning the job thats how i done it. try using the roots search box for other postings ive posted about glassblowing/pressing but if anyone wants anymore imfo let me know and i will try answer.
regards neil
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Hi there,
I stumbled across this thread by accident, but I can answer your question as to why a load of English glass blowers were living in Glasgow. Most glass blowers were members of the Flint Glassmakers' Friendly Society which was part trade union, part friendly society providing unemployment, sickness, pension and death benefits to its members. They were all powerful in the 19th century glass industry, so powerful that when a glass manufacturer needed hands, he applied to the society and they supplied the workers. This meant that when there was unemployment in one area (as there was on the Tyne, particularly South Shields in the early 1850s), they directed the unemployed workers to other areas where there was work (such as Glasgow and Edinburgh). This was a saving to the society as otherwise they would have been paying unemployment benefit, typically 10 shillings per week to a workman and 8 shillings to servitors. The society paid their travelling expenses to the new area and when business recovered they would usually move back to their 'home' area.
There is a very good study of the industry and the society, 'The Labour Aristocracy Revisited: The Victorian Flint and Glass Makers, 1850-80' by Takao Matsumura (7 Dec 1983) which I thoroughly recommend for anyone with glass blowing ancestors.
The society published a quarterly magazine which is a treasure trove as it contains details of membership, where members were working whether they were receiving unemployment or sickness benefit or were in arrears with their dues plus In Memoriam notices for members and their wives who had died. For example, in the 1865 roll of members for Rotherham there is a Robert Gee and a Thomas Gee listed. My own ancestor Andrew Morton was also at Rotherham at that time, although Rotherham is the Union district and they may have worked at different glass works of which there were many. Beatson Clark were the main employers there and the wages books for the 19th century are in Rotherham library.
I have some print outs from the magazine, so if you're interested let me know and I can email them to you.
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andygmandrew,
Thanks. That would be great!
I'll PM my e-mail address.
stuartroxy
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When my gggf Hugh Roxburgh (or Rock or O'Rourk!) died in 1870, his wife Elizabeth remarried Peter Gee, taking with her my ggf James and his brother William to the Gee family. I looked up the Gee family in the Census' of 1861 and was surprised to discover 3 Gee families in the same house. All were born in England (with the exception of the 2 youngest sons) and all the males were glass bottle blowers. There was also another English family of glass bottle blowers in the same street.
They were:
John Gee (30) with his wife Mary (30) and their Glaswegian son William (7).
Robert Gee (22) with his wife Rebecca (20) and their Glaswegian son William (2).
William Gee (57) with his wife Ellen (47) and their Engllish children Joseph (20), Elizabeth (18), Peter (17), Thomas (13) and James (10).
Also in the Street were Isaac and Alice Ashton. There were no Scottish glass bottle blowers in the street.
If the Gees were all related (possibly a leap of faith?), why were a load of English glass bottle blowers living in Glasgow?
Stuartroxy
William Gee born in Glasgow 1859 was my grt grandfather
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Hello there, cousin!
Stuartroxy!
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Folks, this from "The Glass Workers of Scotland!" Diana Connell, pub' by the Glasgow & West of Scotland Family History Society, price on my copy £3.50.
Robert Gee, 42 b.1839, England,
William Gee, 22 b.1859, Glasgow,
George Gee, 19 b.1862, Glasgow.
All at 16 Camperdown Street, Maryhill, a few hundred yards from Murano Street & folk in Glasgow tended to live as near their work as possible! A load of glassworkers also in the adjoining Garscube Road.
The Garngad & Townhead were also centres for glassworkers.
Chance Bros, Birmingham opened a glassworks in Glasgow & doubtless brought their glasworkers north. My own g't grandfather brought his large family here from Brierley Hill/Dudley, his father also a glassworker came from Edinburgh, moved to Derby & worked for a glass-maker from Staffs, married his sister & moved to Dudley. They certainly got about!
The first glass-cone in Glasgow was erected in 1730 by Jamaica Street Bottle Works, mainly making bottles, its replacement lasted till 1834. Several other bottle works also, Lancefield, Port Dundas & Govanhaugh. That tradition was carried on by the Caledonian & North British bottle works & the last named was still in production in the 1970's.
In 1853 the Glasgow Glass Works made crown sheet & plate glass., the only one in Scotland. Plate glass making was transferred to Murano Street in 1874 where Chance Bro's set up shop. The Caledonian Glass Bottle Works were in Murano Street also.
Fine glass for domestic & display was made by the Verreville Co & Lancefield works. The only one to survive into modern times was St Rollox Flint Glass Works of Cochran & Cooper, 1838. Glassworkers living in Canal Street might be employed at St Rollox in the Garngad?
Two glass-cone stumps of the St Rollox glass-works were still visible in 1966.
Bests,
Skoosh.
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Hi,
I have an interest as my GGG grandfather James Morton was a Glass blower and I learned a lot about the trade. What is important to understand is that the employers did not engage the workers, they had to apply to the Flint Glass Makers Union who would then allocate men to the positions with preference being given to members who were out of work. The 1850s and 1860s were difficult for the glass trade on the River Tyne and many men were out of work (James Morton being one of them). Many of them were sent to Glasgow by the Union James being one of them. You can find the evidence for this in the Flint Glass Makers Union quarterly magazine (microfilm copies are held at the University of Warwick library). It’s also worth reading
http://wrap.warwick.ac.uk/34696/1/WRAP_THESIS_Matsumura_1976.pdf
Hope this helps.
Andrew Morton
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Sorry to jump in here, but I have an interest in this and any info would be appreciated. I have family who were involved in this industry, it seems to be that the instigators (in my family if you like were), the Warren family originally from Bristol, they appear to have then moved over to Ireland for a few years between 1861 and 1866 and then moved back to St Helens. Then via marriage my great great grandfather (William Bebbington 1863-1918) married into the Warren family and took up the trade. They then moved up to Glasgow around 1905ish.
I'm trying to locate the factories they potentially worked and the reasons for the moving about. I'm also trying to trace the warrend from Bristol, have them back to the 1841 census.
Thanks in advance
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Glasgow Evening Citizen 11 October 1869
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Glasgow Herald 25 September 1900
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Glasgow Evening Post 25 June 1889
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Sorry to jump in here, but I have an interest in this and any info would be appreciated. I have family who were involved in this industry, it seems to be that the instigators (in my family if you like were), the Warren family originally from Bristol, they appear to have then moved over to Ireland for a few years between 1861 and 1866 and then moved back to St Helens. Then via marriage my great great grandfather (William Bebbington 1863-1918) married into the Warren family and took up the trade. They then moved up to Glasgow around 1905ish.
I'm trying to locate the factories they potentially worked and the reasons for the moving about. I'm also trying to trace the warrend from Bristol, have them back to the 1841 census.
Thanks in advance
1905 V.R. has this record
BEBBINGTON
WILLIAM
Tenant Occupier
HOUSE 71 BUDHILL STREET
GLASGOW
1905
You would need to view it to confirm his occupation
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The name Warren is mentioned here
Glasgow Herald 19 March 1874
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The Gee family caught my eye as my Grandmother was from a line of Gee (Manchester) maybe related anyhow regarding your Gee from St Helens I wonder if he started his career at Pilkington's glass they were founded in 1826 at St Helens ;)
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Sorry to jump in here, but I have an interest in this and any info would be appreciated. I have family who were involved in this industry, it seems to be that the instigators (in my family if you like were), the Warren family originally from Bristol, they appear to have then moved over to Ireland for a few years between 1861 and 1866 and then moved back to St Helens. Then via marriage my great great grandfather (William Bebbington 1863-1918) married into the Warren family and took up the trade. They then moved up to Glasgow around 1905ish.
I'm trying to locate the factories they potentially worked and the reasons for the moving about. I'm also trying to trace the warrend from Bristol, have them back to the 1841 census.
Thanks in advance
1905 V.R. has this record
BEBBINGTON
WILLIAM
Tenant Occupier
HOUSE 71 BUDHILL STREET
GLASGOW
1905
You would need to view it to confirm his occupation
Thanks, yeah I have this and his death cert and the census records list his occupation.
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The name Warren is mentioned here
Glasgow Herald 19 March 1874
Brilliant, thank you