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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: Serenity1948 on Sunday 16 August 09 17:40 BST (UK)

Title: What happened to Ivor HOPWOOD who died in Australia
Post by: Serenity1948 on Sunday 16 August 09 17:40 BST (UK)
Ivor disappeared from the radar mid 1950s! He married IRIS DAVIES prob in 1939 or 1940 - then (it seems) married again in 1951 in Manchester (to THURSFIELD), then again in 1954 in Preston (to BROWN).

The family belief was he died in Australia but nobody knows where - when - or how????

Australia is a vast place & this is just another stab at finding something, anything. Ivor was the father of my (newly discovered) cousin & she has been obsessively trying to trace her father for a number of years without any success.

Carole

Name now corrected
Title: Re: Ivor HOPWOOD (twin=Eric) - DOB 04.07.1919 registered Hawarden, North Wales
Post by: tropicalj on Monday 17 August 09 05:11 BST (UK)
Perhaps  you  could tell us  his parents names. that will help in the search for his death

Jenn
Title: Re: Ivor HOPWOOD (twin=Eric) - DOB 04.07.1919 registered Hawarden, North Wales
Post by: tropicalj on Monday 17 August 09 05:24 BST (UK)
Oh  dear do you  mean HOPWOOD???

I cannot see the births under Hopgood  but  there istwin boys under HOPWOOD

Jenn
Title: Re: Ivor HOPWOOD (twin=Eric) - DOB 04.07.1919 registered Hawarden, North Wales
Post by: andycand on Monday 17 August 09 06:45 BST (UK)
Hi Jenn

The 3 marriages Carole refers to are all in the name Ivor HOPWOOD.

The Davies marriage is in the March Qtr 1941, Holywell Registration District

Andy
Title: Re: Ivor HOPWOOD (twin=Eric) - DOB 04.07.1919 registered Hawarden, North Wales
Post by: Serenity1948 on Monday 17 August 09 17:15 BST (UK)
I'm so sorry, yes the surname is HOPWOOD, I can't believe I posted the incorrect name, please forgive me  ::)

Father's name = William Alfred Hopwood born 1888 North Wales
Mother's maiden name = Annie Connah born 1899 North Wales

Thanks you for your interest & help thus far - Carole  :)
Title: What happened to Ivor HOPWOOD who died in Australia
Post by: maxidog on Friday 21 August 09 23:42 BST (UK)
I have tried for 5 years to find out where and when my father, Ivor Hopwood, died in Australia. I have contacted all the state BMD departments and tried all the main geneological sites to find out where and when he died in Australia but had no success. I have also put appeals for information in several newspapers but did not get a single response. He seems simply to have gone 'off the radar'.

Ivor was the twin brother of Eric who was born near Mold, Flintshire in North Wales,UK on 4th July 1919. His father was William Alfred Hopwood who was a Primary School Headmaster and his mother was Annie Connah. He had siblings, Eric, his twin brother, Eileen born 1921, Dorothy born 1924 and Cyril born 1926.

I know that my mother received a letter from a solicitor informing her that he had died intestate in Australia and asking her her had she a claim on his estate. I never saw the letter but I can only guess that it arrived in the 1960's or 1970's. His occupation whilst he was in the UK was a telecommunications engineer. He married 3 times - the first time to my mother Iris Davies in Holywell in 1941, the second to Elinor Thursfield in Manchester UK in 1951 and finally to Margaret Brown in Preston in 1954. Myself and my brother, also Ivor were the only children of these marriages. His departure to Australia would therefore be after 1954. I have searched the register for the deaths of British citizens who died overseas but his name does not appear in that. I have had searches done for me in all the Australian states (except Tasmania), by people who work in the BMD departments but they could not find a record of his death up to 1974.

I have also contacted an ABC TV programme called 'Can we Help' hoping that they would take the search on board for me but so far I have had no reply.

Can anyone help me find out where he died and when? I hope to visit Australia in October and I would like to see where my father is buried. (I am 68 years old!!!!)
Title: Re: What happened to Ivor Hopwood who died in Australia
Post by: tabily on Saturday 22 August 09 00:01 BST (UK)
Hi Maxidog..
I am running out the door..but did his last wife come with him to Australia?  can you try and find her death? maybe they were buried together? the other thing..I had a relative I couldn't find and I knew they were church of england..so I called the anglican section of Rookwood Cemetery (Sydney).. This is the biggest cemetery in the southern hemisphere and literally a million people are buried there..I know its a shot in the dark??? I could do it if you like? But first I have to run out and buy a birthday present for a party my daughter is going to in an hour!! I did a search in the independant section (their burials are on line) but the only Hopwood was 1930.
Title: Re: What happened to Ivor HOPWOOD who died in Australia
Post by: regross on Saturday 22 August 09 08:19 BST (UK)
Hello,

Have you tried New Zealand.

http://bdmhistoricalrecords.identityservices.govt.nz/home/

There is a death for Ivor Hopwood aged 46 who died in 1966  #28787 which is around a dob of 1919/1920. Records can be ordered online.

regards

Robyn
Title: Re: What happened to Ivor HOPWOOD who died in Australia
Post by: tropicalj on Saturday 22 August 09 11:04 BST (UK)
Following on from  Regross

here is  he burial details  looks like a strong possibility

 http://www.waitakere.govt.nz/cnlser/cm/cemeterysearch/default.aspx

HOPWOOD, IVOR

Plot SOLDIERS BURIAL M Row 4, Plot 47

  Mr Ivor Hopwood aged 46 Occpation was Telephone Technician
died 2/4/1966 buried 6/4/1966

Jenn

Title: Re: What happened to Ivor HOPWOOD who died in Australia
Post by: maxidog on Saturday 22 August 09 16:59 BST (UK)
Thank you so much for the prompt reply.
Your information about my father,Ivor Hopwood is the first to find even a mention of his name. It is too much of a coincidence for this not to be his grave - yet I clearly remember my mother stating that the letter she received from a solicitor informing her of his death said he had died in Australia - and a cousin, who I have only recently been lucky to have made contact with recently for the first time says she thought it was where he died Australia. The date of his death, his age and the fact he was a telephone engineer all seem to indicate this is his grave. I t also may explain why I had hit a brick wall in my efforts to trace him in Australia.
Are you able to help me in a way forward to get more information about him so that I can be sure it was him?
Title: Re: What happened to Ivor HOPWOOD who died in Australia
Post by: maxidog on Saturday 22 August 09 17:09 BST (UK)
OOPS!!!! I am not sure if I pressed the wrong key and the message I typed out and hadn't quite finished may have already been sent to you.
Incase it hasn't - a BIG thank you for your message. It is the best news I have had in a long time and seems to indicate that it is my father who is buried in New Zealand- yet I can clearly remember my mother telling me that she had had a solicitor's letter informing her of his death in Australia. He had apparently died intestate and it was asking her if she had a claim on his estate. A cousin, who I have luckily recently met up with for the first time also thought it was Australia that he had died but the information matches that I have of him. I t also explains why I couldn't get anywhere with my searches in Australia. Interestingly, I notice that he died on 2nd April 1966 - my mother died the 2nd April 2004!
 Can you advise me how I can obtain a certificate of his death so that I can check for any further information about him?
Title: Re: What happened to Ivor HOPWOOD who died in Australia
Post by: krisesjoint on Saturday 22 August 09 23:57 BST (UK)
Hi maxidog,

It is lovely that Robyn and Jenn have been able to help you to find your fathers final resting place after others had failed. I really am thrilled for you. You must be so pleased to have the information after such a long hunt. I see your cousin has seen this news also and moved the request on to the NZ Board for further assistance.

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,401104.0.html

I hope they are able to assist further. I note they are suggesting a printout of the death and provide information on how to do this. ;D

Hope you don't mind - I merged your thread with Carole's when the information found was being duplicated on both threads.

I also note Carole has made a request for Ivors brother Eric it may pay you to keep track of this thread also. (No response so far)

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,401096.new.html#new

All the best.

Cheers Kris :)
Title: Re: What happened to Ivor HOPWOOD who died in Australia
Post by: tropicalj on Sunday 23 August 09 00:28 BST (UK)
Hello  there maxidog,
 so very glad  that  we coul find what appears to be his death and I see that  your  cousin  must  have also  looked at  this thread  by  her posting  in  the link  that Kris  has kindly given to us on  the death of Eric Hopwood.
I  like  to  think  that we often rivall  "can we help"  given  the  shows resources and money.

Hope the certificate  will prove he is the right man.

I  would also suggest  that you  post on  the New Zealand board linking this thread and hopefully  someone might be able to look for a funeral or death notice.

Jenn
Title: Re: What happened to Ivor HOPWOOD who died in Australia
Post by: regross on Sunday 23 August 09 01:31 BST (UK)
Maxidog

If you go to the NZ Historical Index

http://bdmhistoricalrecords.identityservices.govt.nz/home/
 and search the deaths for Ivor using tthe year of his death or his registration number1966/28787 you will get an option to order the certificate
Quote
Order Product

Click on this (the link) and follow the instructions.

A search for Eric Hopwood also yielded an Eric Russell Hopwood died 1955 aged 48 est dob = 1907 so unlikely to be the twin but deaths rely on the knowledge of the informants and can be inaccurate.

There is also a 2002 death for Margaret Hopwood born 30/01/1926 #2002/9729 a possibilty for Ivor's wife


regards

Robyn
Title: Re: What happened to Ivor HOPWOOD who died in Australia
Post by: Lucy2 on Sunday 23 August 09 01:37 BST (UK)

 He married 3 times - finally to Margaret Brown in Preston in 1954.



In the meantime, I've just noticed on the NZ online indexes, a death for "a Margaret Ellen HOPWOOD" in 2002 - her date of birth is given as "30 January 1926" ? Do you think this might be wife number 3 ? [Unfortunately the index does not record place of death, but I can check this out further (need to sight microfiche record at library) ... if you think it she is a likely match.] EDIT : "Margaret Ellen" was found to be the wife of another HOPWOOD - refer to later posting.

Lu
Title: Re: What happened to Ivor HOPWOOD who died in Australia
Post by: Lucy2 on Sunday 23 August 09 01:49 BST (UK)
Maxidog

If you go to the NZ Historical Index

http://bdmhistoricalrecords.identityservices.govt.nz/home/
 and search the deaths for Ivor using tthe year of his death or his registration number1966/28787 you will get an option to order the certificate
Quote
Order Product


Hi Robyn   :)

I'd been unaware of this thread until this morning ... but had posted yesterday to the New Zealand board "version", where I'd added a suggestion on purchase of the death record.

A "printout" of the death record (rather than the "certificate") is what is recommended for all New Zealand BDM records - this gives the maximum amount of information available ... and is also (happily), the less expensive option. :D

Cheers
Lu

Title: Re: What happened to Ivor HOPWOOD who died in Australia
Post by: regross on Sunday 23 August 09 01:55 BST (UK)
Lu,

Thankyou for that. I have not researched in New Zealan myself and was unawaare of how it works there.

Robyn
Title: Re: What happened to Ivor HOPWOOD who died in Australia
Post by: Lucy2 on Sunday 23 August 09 02:06 BST (UK)

Whoops ... sorry maxidog ... have just done a little further searching, and it now appears that the "Margaret Ellen" who died in NZ in 2002 ... was in fact the wife of another HOPWOOD. :(

Lu
[ in NZ ]


Title: Re: What happened to Ivor HOPWOOD who died in Australia
Post by: maxidog on Sunday 23 August 09 10:05 BST (UK)
I cannot believe the response to my initial enquiry has brought so much unexpected, but very much appreciated information. At last the ball is rolling after 5 futile years of searching-all thanks to Rootschat!!

I do not think the Margaret Hopwood you refer to is my father's 3rd wife as I have a copy of the marriage certificate which gives her age as 32 on the 5th March 1954. This would give her DoB as about 1921/22. It is possible that she is still alive so I  placed an appeal for information about her in a Preston newspaper BUT as usual I have not had a response. It could be, as suggested, that she left the UK with my father and she is still alive and about 88/89 years of age now.

I tried to find a form to request a copy of the death certificate of Ivor Hopwood but so far I haven't accessed one. I'll persevere and eventually get round how these sites work! I believe the New Zealand death certificates contain quite a lot of information - much more than the ones issued in the UK so that if it is my father who is buried in Waitakere cemetery I should be able to find out the date of when he arrived in NZ etc. and start getting a 'picture' of him - which is how my initial search started out _ I have not got a photo of my father as an adult though I have obtained a school photo of the twins but don't know which one is my father. I have had a look at Waitakere cemetery on Google street map- it is huge and looks quite bleek. We were actually a few miles from the cemetery in2001 when we visited NZ-if only I'd known then-IF!

We are visiting Australia for 6 weeks from 26th October and had planned to seek out information on my father then. We can now concentrate on having a good sight seeing holiday instead if the info. about his death in NZ is correct. My husband is suggesting that if it is my father's grave in NZ that we only spend 4 weeks in Australia and fly over to NZ for 2 weeks to look up the grave and posssibly find out where he lived over there etc.

Going back to his twin Eric - I have not had any progress in tracing information about him via the internet. It was Carole's father who told me first of all that Eric lived in Guernsey, in 1973(the year my brother, also called Ivor, was killed in a motor accident) - I believe he said that Eric and his wife had a nursing home over there, and again in 2004 when I started the search for my father. My mother died that year and the subject of my father was taboo whilst she was alive ( she suffered from chronic depression for the rest of her life and I have attributed it to the nature of her relationship to my father)- he had been abusive to her and she got her divorce from him on the grounds of 'cruelty'-as the term was in the 1940's. I traced my father's only living sibling 5 years ago but she and another cousin refused to have anything to do with me(I can only think they thought I was after money to have such a nasty response) but I did extract from her step-daughter in law that Eric had died in Guernsey and that Eileen, my father's sister had flown out there reluctantly, to arrange the funeral. It will be interesting to see what turns up about him. I do believe there is a 'criminal' record involved with him relating to his time in De Havillands Aircraft Factory and it involved spare parts supplied to Jersey Airline in the 1940's!! Though having said that about Eric someone suggested it was Ivor who had 'fiddled' the books' at De Havillands - but if it was Ivor who had committed the offence would he been allowed to emigrate to either Australia or New Zealand. There remains that search to complete. I made a visit to the National Archives in London 2 weeks ago but they couldn't help me without having the name of the actual court the offence was tried at. De Havilland's is now British Aerospace and I live 5 miles from the factory but they have  failed to find out any information about the actual offence BUT I do know that the records exist -it only needs someone willing to find them for me in the factory archives. I shall persist.

This is turning out to make good reading for a book don't you think?

Title: Re: What happened to Ivor HOPWOOD who died in Australia
Post by: maxidog on Sunday 23 August 09 10:37 BST (UK)
Regross

I have just re read your message and I have now successfully ordered Ivor's death certificate. I will let you know what transpires when I receive it in about 3 weeks time.

Thanks for the advice. I had in fact accessed that page beforebut I had been putting in the dates incorrectly through not having read the instructions carefully and it would not let me progress to ordering as a result. Simple really!
Title: Re: What happened to Ivor HOPWOOD who died in Australia
Post by: tropicalj on Sunday 23 August 09 23:22 BST (UK)
I  must say a welldone to Regross for  finding  thedeath in New Zealand.  IT does allways  pay  to  think outside the box in genealogy.

I am early awaiting to see if Lu  comes up  with  a funeral or death notice.

We will be waiting  to  hear  the outcome.  Hopefully  it is your Ivor Hopwood and at last you  will  have some sort of closure.  At least you  may know  if he had remarried again ;) and perhaps there might be children. After all he was young enough.

The New Zealand certificates are as good  as theAustralian one with plenty of information, but  remember a death certificate information relies on  the informants knowledge of the deceased. 

kind thoughts Jenn

Title: Re: What happened to Ivor HOPWOOD who died in Australia
Post by: regross on Monday 24 August 09 06:50 BST (UK)
Hi All,

I can't wait to see if this is the correct Ivor. I'm glad you worked the system out Maxidog and the paperwork will arrive in due time.

I thought of NZ only as you had had no success anywhere in Australia. It just seemed to be the next most likely place other than Canada especially when the family history was so grounded "Down Under"

He may well have come to Australia anad then moved on to NZ and until we find shipping records we can only theorise.

Waiting impatiently to see if IVor is your father (certainly they worked in the sane field of expertise which is a promising start.)

best wishes
Robyn
Title: Re: What happened to Ivor HOPWOOD who died in Australia
Post by: maxidog on Monday 24 August 09 13:09 BST (UK)
I have just received a reply to an enquiry I made to Waitakere Council regarding the Funeral Director. It has give me the name of the funeral director and a phone number to contact them. I have, however, emailed them hoping they can provide more information eg who paid for his funeral? Was it his wife no. 3 or maybe there was a 4th wife? I am also hoping they will provide me with the address at which he was registered at the time of his death.

The questions go on and on.........

 I also enquired about it being  a 'soldiers burial'. My father did not do National Service in the UK. It will be interesting to find out the significance of this.
Title: Re: What happened to Ivor HOPWOOD who died in Australia
Post by: tropicalj on Monday 24 August 09 13:28 BST (UK)
Did he serve in WW2?

Jenn
Title: Re: What happened to Ivor HOPWOOD who died in Australia
Post by: maxidog on Monday 24 August 09 13:32 BST (UK)
No. I believe he was exempted from National Service because he was a telephone engineer and the country needed such skills at that time.
Title: Re: What happened to Ivor HOPWOOD who died in Australia
Post by: maxidog on Saturday 29 August 09 17:16 BST (UK)
Whoops!!

I am probably wrong about the fact that my father Ivor Hopwood did not serve in the army. I have just received an email from the funeral directors in New Zealand who arranged his funeral. They were not able to answer all my questions but they said his last address was a 'halfway house' and that war pensions paid for his funeral. I was also given a registered number that the funeral directors think maybe his British Army number.
I  contacted the Army about 3 years ago to enquire about whether he did National Service but I had no response. Now I have a number I shall hopefully get a reply from them when I ask is it his number in the British Army.
He died in Auckland Hospital but I believe this information will be on the death certificate which is on its way to me.
Title: Re: What happened to Ivor HOPWOOD who died in Australia
Post by: tropicalj on Saturday 29 August 09 23:33 BST (UK)
We will all be awaiting the death certificate  with interest.
Don't rule out  the possibilty  that  he could have also served in Korea.

Jenn
Title: Re: What happened to Ivor HOPWOOD who died in Australia
Post by: krisesjoint on Saturday 29 August 09 23:46 BST (UK)
Hi Maxidog,

It seems there was no family about at the time of your fathers death since he was living in a half way house. It may help to post this number you have been given to our armed forces board.

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/board,300.0.html

I would post it to the general board initially as we are not sure it was WW11. If it is WW11 the moderator can soon move the post.

If you let them know that war pensions paid for your fathers funeral and provide his name, date of birth and this number, they may be able to help.

Cheers Kris :)
Title: Re: What happened to Ivor HOPWOOD who died in Australia
Post by: sparrett on Sunday 30 August 09 00:04 BST (UK)
Hi All,
Jenn, I did check the Korean Nominal roll for Australian servicemen.

I assume NZ has their own roll.

It should be noted that there is an option offered to all Korean servicemen as to whether they want to appear on the roll so the fact that he is not showing on the Australian section may not discount the possibilty.

http://www.koreanroll.gov.au/about.aspx

Sue
Title: Re: What happened to Ivor HOPWOOD who died in Australia
Post by: krisesjoint on Sunday 30 August 09 00:19 BST (UK)
I did note in Maxi's reply the funeral directors thought this was a British Army Number (not NZ)

Kris   ;D
Title: Re: What happened to Ivor HOPWOOD who died in Australia
Post by: tropicalj on Sunday 30 August 09 01:00 BST (UK)
Sorry  I  didn't explain myself too well as usual,  I did mean  the Bristish Army in Korea  not Australia, as I don't think we  found him in Australia.

Jenn
Title: Re: What happened to Ivor HOPWOOD who died in Australia
Post by: regross on Sunday 30 August 09 04:01 BST (UK)
Hi,

There does not appear to much available re British service records online but a good place to start your search is here
http://www.armymuseums.org.uk/bothb.htm

They advice that access to serice records of personel after 1920 should be made  through the Veterans Section of the Army Website www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/DefenceFor/Veterans/

aanad http://www.britains-smallwars.com/korea/ offers a query board on Korean service men.

good luck

Robyn
Title: Re: What happened to Ivor HOPWOOD who died in Australia
Post by: maxidog on Wednesday 18 August 21 00:02 BST (UK)
I have not used RootsChat for several years because I was fed up of going round in circles trying to find out some important information regarding my fathers family? I also decided that there would never be closure whilst my father's family ( my first cousins) all refuse to have anything to do with me including Carol who I met briefly after responding to a message I spotted on Roots Chat.
My daughter recently mentioned DNA testing and suggested that I got involved with that in order to find out if I have any siblings from my fathers 2 other marriage. How do I go about this testing?
Title: Re: What happened to Ivor HOPWOOD who died in Australia
Post by: Jennaya on Wednesday 18 August 21 10:04 BST (UK)
Hi,

Welcome to Rotschat. Are you the same person (under a new username) who got the birth certificate from NZ?

If so, we would love to know what you found out from the certificate.

I haven't done a DNA test, hoever I believe that can be done through companies such as Ancestry.com.

Regards
Jennaya

Title: Re: What happened to Ivor HOPWOOD who died in Australia
Post by: cando on Thursday 19 August 21 06:48 BST (UK)
Did the death certificate from NZ help you at all?

There are a number of public trees on Ancestry mentioning your father's details. 

As you know the maiden names of his other two wives, you could search for any possible matches on http://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl   Search using the years and even the areas where you think he lived in those years.

England & Wales
National Probate Calendar - Index of Wills and Administrations
Probate date   6 Dec 1967
HOPWOOD Ivor of 13 Newton Road, Newton, Auckland New Zealand died 4 April 1966 at The Public Hospital Auckland.  Administration Bangor 6 December to Annie Malpass married woman.  347 Pounds.

Title: Re: What happened to Ivor HOPWOOD who died in Australia
Post by: cando on Thursday 19 August 21 11:43 BST (UK)
Details of his second wife whom Ivor married in 1951.  Elinor was born in 1908.

http://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl
Marriages Sep 1934   
HOLDEN Elinor    THURSFIELD    Blackburn    8e/890
(John Stanley THURSFIELD died in 1943)

Marriages Jun 1944   
THURSFIELD   Elinor    CARNIE    Tavistock    5b/808
(Wallace CARNIE worked in the postal service and died in 1960)
   
Marriages Dec 1951   
THURSFIELD    Elinor    HOPWOOD    Manchester    10e/526
Title: Re: What happened to Ivor HOPWOOD who died in Australia
Post by: maxidog on Friday 20 August 21 00:00 BST (UK)
I am so grateful for your response although I had much of it before I hadn't been able to find anything about my father's will. I remember my mother receiving a letter from a solicitor asking if she had a claim to his estate. She replied that she had as he had disappeared without paying any maintenance for me and my brother. About a year later she had another letter telling her that there were prior claims meaning she had nothing. It looks like the claimant was his mother, my grandmother, Annie Malpass, who would not have anything to do with me even though I was her first grandchild.
I feel no bitterness as they were strangers in my life but I still feel I need to know as much about them as I can find.
It looks like that you have also been able to find the previous marriage of my father's second wife, Margaret Brown. If I am correct her maiden name before her first marriage is Elinor Holden. I am so grateful for that bit of information as it means I can now make a fresh appeal for information in a Preston newspaper which is where she lived. About 10 years ago I had contacted the vicar of the church she married my father to ask if he could tell me anything about her family. He was unhelpful, telling me the church had been demolished and that he had no access to records and knew nothing of the family. I had hoped he would give me some contacts.
When I received the coroner's report from Wellington I had the name of my father's previous employer who had given evidence at the inquest. I managed to find an email address for him but after contacting him I had no response. I am hoping that one day someone in New Zealand may come up with a photo of my father as I have no idea what he looked like as an adult- I have a few photos of him and his identical twin up to the age of 13/14. That will be another area for me to research.
Thanks so much for you help and speedy response
Title: Re: What happened to Ivor HOPWOOD who died in Australia
Post by: cando on Friday 20 August 21 13:13 BST (UK)
Your father died without a will  Administration was to Annie MALPASS. 

I didn’t mention Margaret BROWN. 
The three marriages detailed are for his second wife Elinor HOLDEN who had been married twice prior to her marriage to your father.


Title: Re: What happened to Ivor HOPWOOD who died in Australia
Post by: maxidog on Friday 20 August 21 22:22 BST (UK)
I realised as soon as I sent that message that I had been too hasty reading your message. I knew of my father's marriage to Elinor Thursfield who was many years older than him, but I didn't know that she had previous marriages.
I made reference to his third marriage to Margaret Brown of Preston.
It is interesting that Annie Malpass was the administrator of the estate. She was estranged from my father. My father owed 16 years child maintenance payments to my mother for me and my younger brother and she had always hoped that she would get some of it if he was 'found'. A warrant was out for his arrest in GB for non payment but he 'disappeared'.
My next search is to find out if he had any other children and that is why I have left a message on Roots Chat about DNA testing. I am not sure of the way forward with this.
Title: Re: What happened to Ivor HOPWOOD who died in Australia
Post by: mckha489 on Friday 20 August 21 22:51 BST (UK)
What did his death certificate say about children? 
I realise informants may not have known, but you never know, he might have been interviewed in hospital.

An NZ death cert should have

If living issue, the number, age and sex


Title: Re: What happened to Ivor HOPWOOD who died in Australia
Post by: tropicalj on Friday 20 August 21 23:22 BST (UK)
Maxidog reply number 21 was awaiting the death certificate way back in 2009.

Let's hope he or she still has contact with rootschat and might supply that information but hasn't been active since 2013

Regarss Jenn of the North

Title: Re: What happened to Ivor HOPWOOD who died in Australia
Post by: Lucy2 on Tuesday 19 October 21 13:32 BST (UK)
This  is a message for  "melrylav"
 
   [who informs that he / she was previously known as "maxidog" - but was unable to log-in to RootsChat due to forgetting registration details and so has had to re-register under a new name  "melrylav"  ]    Incidentally, the activity for  "maxidog"  showed they were online here yesterday 19 October '21 (UK time) and again just very recently ??       

I received a lengthy PM on 19 October 2021, from "melrylav" in relation to Ivor HOPWOOD.   I've only contributed in a minor way to this thread and two shorter threads on the NZ board, (which all commenced in 2009 ) so have no idea why I was approached ?    "maxidog"  last posted to this thread as recently as August 2021 re: DNA testing.

For the reasons that I prefer to contribute information via a thread in which others partake, (rather than by PM) and, because in this instance I'm unsure if  "melrylav"  who is registered only as a "guest" here, will receive my reply,  I will add further details (to follow), into this thread.

links to threads on NZ board  >>

https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,401104.0.html

https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=403312.msg2722208#msg2722208


    ~   Lu

*   edited to add links

 
Title: Re: What happened to Ivor HOPWOOD who died in Australia
Post by: Lucy2 on Tuesday 19 October 21 14:04 BST (UK)
Information for   "melrylav"     OR    "maxidog"   
       
  -    Ivor HOPWOOD - Shipping / Immigration

New information is always coming to hand, and whilst shipping / immigration lists have been searched for previously, nothing was found for HOPWOOD's entry into New Zealand.

The following record (excerpt) would seem to indicate though, that he firstly went to Australia.

Australia :
Incoming Passenger Card (Aircraft)

Arrived :  Sydney, Australia on :  29 October 1956
Embarked at :    Singapore

HOPWOOD - Ivor

Nationality (as shown on passport) :   British    (Race:  European)
Male / Age last birthday  :     37 years
Status :   Married
Occupation :   Telecommunications
Country of last Residence :    Brunei
Intended Address in Australia :  c/- Post Office, Telephones, Sydney
Purpose of Visit :    Employment - Post Office
Length of Stay :  Permanent.


[Source :   FindMyPast = FindMyPast  - pay site ]

Note:   As he had stated he was married, I did a search for his last wife (Margaret - nee BROWN) entering Australia.    Found nothing of interest.
[I'm guessing ... and it is only a guess, but probably worth exploring, from looking at other mainly UK records, that she possibly remained in Lancashire ?  There may also have been a child ??     You can follow up on this (I'm  sure another R/Chatter gave help on this earlier ? )  by beginning a search on Free BMD (UK) followed by looking at UK electoral rolls.      Please DO NOT though publish the name of the child b. 1954 in this thread - as very probably still living  ! ]

    ~  Lu

*  edited for clarity

Title: Re: What happened to Ivor HOPWOOD who died in Australia
Post by: maxidog on Tuesday 19 October 21 14:21 BST (UK)
Wow! You deserve a medal for that. The information you have sent is amazing and seems more credible than any other that I have received. It's a starting point for further research by me in a direction I had never contemplated going. It now needs me to contact the Post Office telephones in Australia for any information. Are you a professional researcher as the speed that you got that information was unbelievably fast?
For the past month we have been frantically searching our home for all the births/marriages/death certificates I had bought relating to this line of my family and so far have been unable to find them. I wanted to show on RootsChat how the original death certificate sent to me from Wellington was incorrect with his date of death and the proof that they were wrong was found by me after I returned home to Wales and I had to send it all to Wellington before they reissued the death certificate with the correct date of death. Hopefully these documents will be recovered somewhere in the house.
Title: Re: What happened to Ivor HOPWOOD who died in Australia
Post by: Lucy2 on Tuesday 19 October 21 14:41 BST (UK)
Ivor HOPWOOD - to New Zealand  :

This man does not appear on New Zealand (or Australian) electoral rolls, as far as I can see.
That then removes an information source that may have been helpful.

Previously on this (and possibly the NZ threads),  others have asked for the details given on Ivor HOPWOOD's New Zealand death record ( either "certificate" or "printout" of same)  - which you apparently obtained back in 2009 ?     Supplying those to the thread, may well have helped advance your search ?   Is there any reason for withholding this information ?     Also seems you have medical records from Auckland Hospital  and a Coroner's report - which may also be helpful in providing clues.

If you do happen to have the 1966 death record "printout" (a copy of the registrar's entry), then it should contain the maximum amount of information available.   A New Zealand death record of that era, also contains info on "Years in NZ" (length of residency) - not always accurate, but may be of  help in searching further.     
*  What does Ivor HOPWOOD's record have for "Years in NZ"  ???

Should mention, that there may not be a record of his travel to New Zealand because as an immigrant to Australia (and being of British origin) he would automatically be able to travel "freely" between the two countries.

   ~  Lu
Title: Re: What happened to Ivor HOPWOOD who died in Australia
Post by: Lucy2 on Tuesday 19 October 21 15:05 BST (UK)
Hello maxidog     

   ... our posts crossed - meaning I had not seen your reply before I sent my last post.
And it seems you've been able to reinstate your former registration, and get back to using your original name ?

No, a medal is not required (nor are they sought around here) ... that information was fairly freely available on a "pay site" although it may only have been a recent addition.     "No"  too,  to being "professional" ... just returning favours.  I once received wonderful help myself, from RootsChatters.   ;)

The "arrival" information I gave you is "credible".   It is an official record of the Australian Government / Immigration service, of that era.

With regard to the NZ death record - when you find it - there is no need to post a copy of the  actual certificate or printout, you can just do a transcription of the information it contains. 

    ~  Lu

   
Title: Re: What happened to Ivor HOPWOOD who died in Australia
Post by: maxidog on Tuesday 19 October 21 15:34 BST (UK)
I had searched electoral roll records when in Auckland library and a librarian gave me a lot of guidance on further esearch whilst there but, like you, we couldn't find his name on any electoral roll there.
It is annoying that I cannot find all the official records I collected but I clearly remember that the anticipated, more lengthy New Zealand death certificate yielded little information as most area had 'not recorded' alongside them. It was interesting that he had named his younger brother as next of kin and no his identical twin brother - or even me as his daughter. It also recorded marital status as 'separated'.
There was no facility on that death record to record the number of years in New Zealand.
I am not sure whether I have mentioned contacting the tax office in New Zealand to find out any tax records as his death certificate said he was a 'telecommunications engineer' and I was told that there was only one telecommunications company in NZ at that time. I was told that had no tax records for him.
I did find that he had spent 3 nights in a Salvation Army Hostel in Auckland and had the address of it. We went there only to be told that they had no records from the period my father was there and the likeliest reason he would have been there was either homelessness, drug addiction or alcoholism. He moved to an address from the hostel in Newton Road but when we went to look for it a pen office block had been built on the spot he had moved to. It was only a week after he moved from the hostel to Newton Road that he was found unconscious at the back of an 'hotel' in Auckland after the bar in the hotel had closed and the landlord called the police and ambulance as he had a head wound. I got this information after receiving the coroner's report from Wellington. He was taken to Auckland public hospital where he died a few days later death being recorded on his death certificate as from an 'intra cerebral haemorrhage'. This is often associated with alcoholism as I learnt later.
I remember that evidence given by his former boss at the telecommunication place of work was that he had terminated his employment due to his increasingly erratic behaviour- again probably alcohol related.
The name of the boss was on the coroner's report and at that time googled it to see if I could find where he lived in Auckland area. I found someone that had his name and emailed him but never had a reply. i did post his name in 2009 and got some responses but they came to nothing but I assume by now he could be no longer around.
Having just got more information on is second wife when we were staying in the vicinity of the address on the marriage certificate I now need to epresume the search on his 3 rd wife as the information you have given has surprised me and I need to check it out. Thanks so much once again. Will let you know if I do get more information. Quite exciting news this!😁🤞🤙
Title: Re: What happened to Ivor HOPWOOD who died in Australia
Post by: Lucy2 on Tuesday 19 October 21 15:56 BST (UK)
Hi maxidog

Thanks for that very-well ordered summary - well done.   ;)   
It is most helpful to have it in that format, saves an awful lot of searching back through the threads.

Yes, please keep us informed of any progress you make.

   ~  Lu
Title: Re: What happened to Ivor HOPWOOD who died in Australia
Post by: maxidog on Tuesday 19 October 21 17:10 BST (UK)
Following up your information about his 3rd wife and trying to retrieve any information I got back in 2009. I have found  birth records and got a name that I am following up. Not sure how I feel about this information after all these years -excited,  but apprehensive after the reception I got from my father's remaining sibling in 2009 whe I discovered her and all his nephews and nieces. I am going ahead with it nevertheless.🤞
Title: Re: What happened to Ivor HOPWOOD who died in Australia
Post by: maxidog on Wednesday 20 October 21 12:43 BST (UK)
Have been trying to fully assimilate the information you found for me particularly that he came to New Zealand via Australia. I thought this must have been the case but didn't know how to get that information unless I spent months going to sailing records. It didn't cross my mind that he left by plane as most Brits used the 10 Pom means of getting there. I note that it says an 'extract' above the information about his arrival via Brunei(? ) and Singapore. How can I be find that information,  please?

I am on a very steep learning curve in this research lark and have still got to get to grips with 'links' etc.
Incidentally, I have requested to become a member of a FB group to seek more information about Margaret Brown and any relations but I haven't been accepted yet. I found the name of someone who more than likely could be a half sister to me but have not been able to progress any further for more information about her. I should probably send for the birth certificate to confirm my suspicions but then not sure what to do as looking for her possible marriage so many names come up. Will persevere however, now you have set the ball to roll.
Title: Re: What happened to Ivor HOPWOOD who died in Australia
Post by: Lucy2 on Wednesday 20 October 21 20:51 BST (UK)
Hi maxidog

Some good news for you !   ;D       

Below is the link to the actual arrival record for Ivor HOPWOOD - complete with his signature.

I hadn't had a chance to look further until this morning, but now find this record is in the public domain, freely available for viewing from the NAA (National Archives of Australia) website.

https://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/SearchNRetrieve/Interface/ViewImage.aspx?B=12604027&S=651

[Note :   Sometimes I've found the links to these records "time out"  (a security feature I think,  causes that).   If that should happen and you can't access, let me know, ]

I'll answer your questions shortly,  in a following post.

    ~  Lu
Title: Re: What happened to Ivor HOPWOOD who died in Australia
Post by: maxidog on Wednesday 20 October 21 22:39 BST (UK)
Brilliant. I am hardly doing anything else at the moment except googling, RootsChatting, Free BMD etc. You got me going😁🤙
Title: Re: What happened to Ivor HOPWOOD who died in Australia
Post by: Lucy2 on Thursday 21 October 21 01:02 BST (UK)
Just on my way out so will get back to this later today.

     ~   Lu
Title: Re: What happened to Ivor HOPWOOD who died in Australia
Post by: Jennaya on Thursday 21 October 21 08:49 BST (UK)
Hi Maxidog

In relation to the Australian post office employment: post office and telephones used to be one organisation called Postmaster Generals Dept (PMG) until some time in the 2nd half of the 1970s. It was split in two parts: Australia Post and Telecom Australia. Telecom Australia eventually became Telstra and became privatised.

Regards
Jennaya
Title: Re: What happened to Ivor HOPWOOD who died in Australia
Post by: Lucy2 on Thursday 21 October 21 15:05 BST (UK)
.... It didn't cross my mind that he left by plane as most Brits used the 10 Pom means of getting there.
   *  I note that it says an 'extract' above the information about his arrival via Brunei(? ) and Singapore.

Hi maxidog

*  'extract'  - i think I use the word "excerpt" ... (passenger card info) ... but this was just to indicate that I had made a transcription of the information from the record I had found.  [Link to actual record now posted here.]

I've viewed your posts re: seeking information for Brunei. (Other Countries - Brunei,  thread)
Most of what I had been going to say (re: Brunei / travel to Australia), has probably now been covered.
I think though probably it is a stretch to assume that his air fare to Australia was paid for by the Australian Government.   ;D

That passenger card also indicates - at point No. 3 (Nationality) -  that "is information as shown on passport".

Q.    Are you able to check - if and when - a UK passport was issued for Ivor HOPWOOD ?? 

You've said previously in this search, (in this thread), that there was a warrant out in GB for the arrest of Ivor HOPWOOD in relation to non-payment of child maintenance.

I'd be curious then about how a passport might be issued to a man who was wanted by police (or  by the authorities concerned in dealing with such matters) ?

And this same man marrying again, twice (1951 and 1954), and using his legal name (maybe risking being caught for outstanding debts) ?

        ~  Lu
 
 
Title: Re: What happened to Ivor HOPWOOD who died in Australia
Post by: Dyingout on Thursday 21 October 21 16:21 BST (UK)
...

I'd be curious then about how a passport might be issued to a man who was wanted by police (or  by the authorities concerned in dealing with such matters) ?

And this same man marrying again, twice (1951 and 1954), and using his legal name (maybe risking being caught for outstanding debts) ?

I think you have to think long and hard about the era that this happened in. There was no central database for criminals, any details were posted to other local constabularies head office and there, they would decide whether they would be worth pursuing.

As for the passport office I don't know if a civil case such as non payment of maintenance would  be registered with there. Then if no former passport was issued where would you file the details for future reference.
Title: Re: What happened to Ivor HOPWOOD who died in Australia
Post by: Lucy2 on Friday 22 October 21 01:46 BST (UK)
Hello "Dyingout"

Just wish to point out that you have attributed the quote in your recent post, to the wrong person (i.e. to "maxidog" ).

I'm guessing though that the thoughts you express, are intended for "maxidog"  ??

   ~   Lu