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Some Special Interests => Travelling People => Topic started by: GYPSYROSELEE on Monday 24 August 09 13:38 BST (UK)
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HELLO I AM LOOKING FOR INFO ON THE HOLLAND FAMILY GYPSYS FROM LEICESTERSHIRE I HAVE MOSES HOLLAND B1855 HIS DAD WAS FREDRICK HOLLAND B, ABT 1810 AND HIS DAD WAS ROBERT HOLLAND B, ABT 1790. ANY INFO LIKE WHERE THEY ORIGINATED FORM, WHAT THEY LOOKED LIKE, THEIR DAY TO DAY LIFE. WITH THANKS ;)
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hi. i too am looking for the hollands. my great, great grandma was baramenta holland ( also recorded as: wyramenta, wymenty et al). she married napthali smith. she was born circa 1817 in waltham, leics and died aged 91 on 6th dec 1908 in barleythorpe rutland. i have lots of info on her offspring if you're interested but not had much luck getting pre 1837 info.
best wishes, lino
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Not sure if family you both looking for ? but thought would post might help
1871 Census Ratcliffe Atherstone Leciestershire
Moses Holland 53 b 1818 Leciestershire James Brazier
Ambretta 49 b 1822 Northamptonshire
Cornelius 18 b 1853 Leciestershire Brazier
Aaron 14 b 1858 Staffordshire
John 11 b 1860 Leciestershire
George 9 b 1862 Staffordshire
Benjamin 4 b 1867 Leciestershire
1881 Census Ratcliffe Atherstone Leciestershire
Moses Holland 62 b 1819 Leciestershire Tinman Peddlar
Ambretta 61 b 1820 Northamptonshire
Benjamin 14 b 1867 Leciestershire
1901 Census Orton on the Hill Market Bosworth Leciestershire
Moses Holland 80 b 1821Leciestershire Tinker/Brazier
Ambretta 79 b 1822 Northamptonshire
Sidney Murby 3 b 1898 Leciestershire Grandson
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Hello i am also a Holland! but sadly i can only trace my Grandfather Daniel George Holland to his Birth in 1921 and here is where i end! his father was also Daniel! Does anybody have any links via there roots to a Daniel Holland?
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hi there. you need to search birth, marriages and deaths in order to get the info to order certificates. it can be very time consuming, i know, but great if you find what you're looking for. my holland married into the smiths. need i say more?
you can also search the censuses. good luck with the hunt.
lyn (aka lino)
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if anyone looking for hollands in the west country i may be able to help.have a few links to hollands in oxford aswell.
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Lino
I think this is the baptism you're looking for :
WALTHAM ON THE WOLDS, LEI
Boyrenetta HOLLAND 18.1.1825 Thomas & Sarah, Traveller, Waltham
I know the age given at death doesn't tally exactly, but it is well-known that Gypsies and gorgios alike who lived into old age during the 19th (and earlier) century often added up to a decade to their supposed ages.
I hope this helps.
Keith C
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thanks for that keith; however, i just found that very info yesterday. i've worked out how to use the parish registers on igi at last. but thankyou again for your effort. cheers
lynne
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Bit late to an old thread but I'm a descendant of Moses & Ambretta Holland.
would love to chat to you all to see what you know about them I've just started to look into them.
Hope to hear from you
Paul Horton
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Hi Paul. If you type their names on to the internet, there are several sites with info on Moses and Ambretta Holland. Best wishes Lino .
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Hi Cathey B
Moses holland was my great x3 grand dad if you could please tell me about them I'd be so grateful or if you have any pictures
Thank you so mum
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no I haven't a moses Holland in my tree I am afraid.your Hollands seem to be in the midlands .mine are very much west country.sorry
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Thank you 😊 for looking
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Hi Gypsyroselee
As with most families its complicated to explain how they all connect especially when siblings children partnered each other as in 1st cousin marriages.
Robert Holland b 1770 ? spouse was Ann according to a christening of daughter & son Robert
Name: Elizth. Holland
Gender: Female
Baptism Date: 27 Jun 1798
Baptism Place: Frolesworth,Leicester,England
Father: Robert Holland
Mother: Ann
FHL Film Number: 590774
Name: Elizabeth Or Mary Holland
Gender: Female
Marriage Date: 5 May 1817
Marriage Place: All Saints,Loughborough,Leicester,England
Spouse: Tobias Claydon
FHL Film Number: 592570, 592571
Son Robert 17 Aug 1800 Baptism Place:Barwell,Leicester,England > this son married
Name Argely Smith
Gender Female
Marriage Date 17 Jun 1819
Marriage Place Gloostone,Leicester,England
Spouse Robert Holland
FHL Film Number 590777
Robert Sr children >
Benjamin Holland married Sarah Hodgkin
Edward Holland married Rosanne Hodgkin
Elizabeth Holland married Tobias Clayton
Robert Holland married Argley Smith
Thomas Holland married Sarah Clayton
John Holland married Patience Hodgkin
Ann Holland married ?
Joseph Holland married Sinfi Sherriff
Fredrick Holland & Selina Clayton parents of >
Moses Holland born 1855 Ravenstone, Leicestershire spouse of Eliza Clayton parents Isabella Clayton & William Booth > who you were asking about.
Fredrick's brother Benjamin 1787 • Lawton, Leicestershire, England was father of Amboretta Holland & her spouse Moses was son of Robert 1800 • Barwell, Leicestershire .
Moses partner Eliza b 1859 Matlock, Derbyshire, England her mother was Isabella Clayton and father William Booth never married and children were baptized as Booth but can be found as Clayton.
siblings for Eliza:
Shadrac Clayton - Ephraim Clayton -Duanna Clayton- Jeremiah Clayton- Levi Clayton-Alvadine Clayton - Henry Clayton- Israel Clayton
Hope this helps
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Hi Gypsyroselee
I found this record and wonder if its parents ? It was not unusual for couples to wed after having children and certainly same place Eliza Holland married Tobias Clayton some 5 years later and often the case was families kept to certain places or churches to wed because of who they were etc not all vicars would perform ceremony but if they knew them would do so.
Name: Robert Holland
Gender: Male
Marriage Date: 2 Aug 1813
Marriage Place: All Saints,Loughborough,Leicester,England
Spouse: Ann Bradberry
FHL Film Number: 592570, 592571
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:o WOW, how have you managed to get so far back it's totally killed my brain looking for my gypsy side and trying to find anything about them my grandad always told me my great x2 nan was the last one to live like a gypsy in a horse drawn caravan with a clay pipe she had olive skin and black hair where do you reckon our family line first originally came from do you reckon it was a different country or was it just England I find it truly amazing that we grow up not fully knowing where we've come from and down the lines what DNA we hold from family members 100s of years ago and further :)
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Lol I am just very experienced at looking for people like this as my own family are Romany. :)
I have no idea if your family were from a different country or England I would not even guess. The only way to be certain as you have mentioned would be by DNA and that would have to be via a Male descendant in other words from Robert Holland Sr down through his son and so on unbroken male line through their sons to present day male, if that is a possible then you may find out where your Holland family originated from> reason being male DNA does not change from father to son and so on.hope this helps.
Personally I am not sure even if you did know the origins it makes a difference, if you read about origins of Romany written by so many experts they say originated in India and arrived in Mid-West Asia, then Europe, around 1,000 years ago.They left India sometime between the sixth and eleventh century.A fact which does not imply that they came from there or was their original homeland. Everybody must come from some place where his/her ancestors lived before, perhaps having arrived there from some other country who knows.......
There are not many helpful archaeological findings or written sources when it comes to mapping the path traveled by Romany you can spend many hours reading about what the experts think, but nothing has been proven to really explain where they came from and even if it could the one thing we would never know was what were our families original surnames? None sound foreign in the sense from another land.
It is far better to just map your own family history and enjoy the discoveries you find than try to fathom where they might have originated from at some point the further you attempt to go backwards you will not be able too, due to lack of written records, unless like some it becomes more about quantity rather than family history and wanting to impress how many people you can allege are related to you especially those who say I am Romany and only married one, that does not make them Romany unless their own ancestors can be proven to be Romany which as many Romany took a non Romany partner past and present does not automatically make them Romany only blood line can do that .
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Thank you for so much information it's something I'm going to look into to see who they are and how they lived I love history so much ; :D
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I've spent years looking for my greatgrandmother ,she was married to Frederick Elliott the only clues i have found ,a Christening for one of her children Aaron Elliott giveing father name Fred and mothers name Emily and i fiound a newspaper report called ';'Gypsies Gold ''nameing mrs Emily Elliott Gypsy of East Retford I also found a marriage between Emily Holland and Frederick Elliott ,but not sure if its the correct one .My Elliott family were from Nottinghamshire ,lincs East Retford is a favoured place...Any clues would help ,i think the family diowned her ...i've spokento some of the older members and they know nothing !! regards Janey
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Hi if you are looking for Moses and Ambretta Holland from Warwickshire, I am descended from them on my maternal grandmothers side. In fact my maternal grandmother was named after her own grandmother, being registered as Amber Etta Holland, one of her brothers was also named Moses Holland after his grandfather. I understand that Moses and Ambretta Holland are buried in Orton on the Hill.
I grew up with tales of being descended from Romany gypsies, as a small child my grandmother told me I was decended from a gypsy princess, which of course I loved. It wasn't until recently that I decided to look into it more. It was brilliant to confirm what my grandmother had told me nearly 60 years ago.
Romanies originally came from India, 1,000 of years ago. Hope this helps happy to discuss further.
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Hi. I'm from Cornwall. My Grandad was Benjamin Holland. Heard that he was from Somerset. Romany Gypsy. Don't know anymore about him.
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Hi everyone. Looking for my Holland roots too.
I know my Grandad Benjamin Holland was born in Gosport in 1888. One of his sisters was born in Somersetshire.
I think my Grandads father was called Joseph.
My Grandad then lived in Penzance then St.Ives in Cornwall.
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If you are interested in HOLLANDs have you seen Eric Trudgill's latest compendium of data he's collected over many years "Ten Major Gypsy Families of Wales & The English West & North" which includes a Robert HOLLAND?
The ten families are: Daniel EVANS & Lydia JONES; Abel, Cinamenty & Patience RYALLS; Francis & Fanny HEAPS; Robert HOLLAND & Ann BRADBURY; George FLORENCE & Ann BAILEY; John SCARROTT & Ann HALL; Thomas SHERRIFF & Mary BUTLER; Edmund CHARLOTTE & Elizabeth JUSTICE; John & Faney WARTON; and Richard, Devit & Margaret HERON.
Hope this info is of use.
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If you are interested in HOLLANDs have you seen Eric Trudgill's latest compendium of data he's collected over many years "Ten Major Gypsy Families of Wales & The English West & North" which includes a Robert HOLLAND?
The ten families are: Daniel EVANS & Lydia JONES; Abel, Cinamenty & Patience RYALLS; Francis & Fanny HEAPS; Robert HOLLAND & Ann BRADBURY; George FLORENCE & Ann BAILEY; John SCARROTT & Ann HALL; Thomas SHERRIFF & Mary BUTLER; Edmund CHARLOTTE & Elizabeth JUSTICE; John & Faney WARTON; and Richard, Devit & Margaret HERON.
Hope this info is of use.
Anyone know if i can get a pdf copy of this as I'm interested in the family of George Florence and Ann Bailey
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Anyone know if i can get a pdf copy of this as I'm interested in the family of George Florence and Ann Bailey
I don't know of any PDFs but the book is sold by the Romany and Traveller Family History Society:
https://rtfhs.org.uk/publications/familyhistories/
and scroll down to the RTFHS Families Series and it's the first of a number of publications.
Hope this is of help.
(There are PDF copies of some of the early RTFHS publications such as the Sussex Gypsy Diaries, the four volume 1891 Census transcriptions, The Buckland and Buckley Index and The Winchester Confessions available on Parish Chest: https://www.parishchest.com/romany-and-traveller-fhs-4497.php)