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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Nottinghamshire => Topic started by: topmarx on Thursday 03 March 05 10:46 GMT (UK)
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My Gr Grandfather was born in 1857 he was Henry Mellors
I have checked the census and could find no Mr Mellors.
So I checked the 1861 census, the first one after Henry was born and still no Mr Mellors, but mum Sophia Mellors was living at the home of John Henstock.
She is named as a housekeeper
her son Henry is down as a visitor.
She lives with the same person on following census even though her family grows. She is named as a servant
On one census the youngest was 7 weeks.
I presume that John Hemstock was the father of all of Sophias children.
But Why didn't he marry her?
What could have been the reason? My mind boggles.
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Hiya Topmarx
Probably social standing. If you could afford a servant you didn't marry them as you would have been looked down on.
Have you checked to see if Mr Hemstock was already married? He could have been living seperated from his wife
Unfortunately it could be you will never know the answer to why he didn't marry her
Willow x
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Thanks for the reply.
I wouldn't have thought that ones social standing would have been in very good standing if one fathered the children of the servant and still did not marry either? But maybe that was looked on differently.
Mr Hemstock was a Castrator by occupation would that have meant that he had money do you know? Just that suddenly after he died Sophia seems to have become Head on the census.
How would I find if this guy was a married man or not?
I have just this second received Gr Grandads bc and name and surname of father are not given as I expected.
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found this interesting
Marriages Jun 1860
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GASCOYNE John Basford 7b 174
HEMSTOCK John Basford 7b 174
Mellors Mary Ann Basford 7b 174
PAXTON Elizabeth Basford 7b 174
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Have checked the 1871 census image for you - John Hemstock is listed as married. Regards Jan ;)
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If he is listed as married on the census there is a chance his wife was ill and in a nursing home or living away from him for other reasons
If you could locate a copy of his will it might be interesting to see if Sophia inherited the house on his death
Mary Ann Mellors married John Gascoyne as I found her in the 1871 census with him. John Hemstock married Elizabeth Paxton but she isn't turning up as Elizabeth Hemstock on the 1871 or 1881 census. I wonder if they separated? Or was she off abroad spending his money?
Willow x
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I am having trouble getting my head around all of this.
So John was a married man, but surely his wife was aware that the woman he had living there as a servant was re-producing? Where did she think Sophia was getting them from? By proxy?
Maybe the two couples that married on the same day were friends and Mary Ann was Sophias sister and thats how they met. But never mind the maybe's
Would a Castrator be well off enough to have left a will do you think?
How would I go about finding it?
You have all been so helpful. Thanks to you all.
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Perhaps you could get a look up on both Sophia and John in the 1851 census and see if there are any further clues there? He is quite a bit older than her, but I would have thought that would make him more likley to marry her, not less....
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Could you post up the info you got from the 1861 census - might be some clues
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1861 census 2483 page 21 Flintham
Address Back Side Flintham.
John Hemstock age 65 married Occ. Castrator born Nottm.
Sophia Mellow age 37 unmarried Occ. Housekeeper born Thorton.
Vistor Henry Mellows age 4 born Thornton.
Good address for a castrator dont you think?
I shall post on lookups to see if I can get 1851
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Interestingly on the 1871 census there is a Richard Hemstock and his faimly living on the same street.
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The Divorce Bill
Before 1857, you could only get a divorce if you applied to Parliament for a private Act. It was a process far beyond the means of most ordinary people.
Maybe his wife had taken off or was in an institution.
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Yes I have heard of that, but Henry was born in 1857, and if all the children were Johns they were born after Henry so you would have thought they would marry.
It would be interesting to see if he left the house to Sophia in a will. I notice that on the census after John had died and Sophia was Head of the family it was a private house she was living in.
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Does Henry's uncle and aunt throw any light on the situation?
He seems to be living with them in 1881 - do you have that detail? Who are the Allwoods related to?
Pam
;D
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Hi Pam
Yes I have that detail. Not sure if he is related to him or her but think her because of the age.
How do you think this will help? ???
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see these entries on IGI
1. SOPHIA MELLOWS - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 24 MAR 1828 Thoroton, Nottingham, England
2. SARAH MELLOWS - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 14 JUN 1829 Thoroton, Nottingham, England
3. ANN MELLOWS - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 29 SEP 1833 Thoroton, Nottingham, England
All children of John Mellows and Elizabeth
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Oh great thats so helpful.
Thank you
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Hi Pam
Yes I have that detail. Not sure if he is related to him or her but think her because of the age.
How do you think this will help? ???
Well the question of why didn't they marry is subjective because we can only guess. Is John named on Henry's birth cert by the way?
I thought that if the Allwoods are related to Hemstocks and they acknowledge Henry as a nephew rather than a visitor - it's just a subjective indicator?
Cheers,
Pam
;D
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Ah. I see where you are now.
I did not go any further with the Allwoods maybe I should
I have Henry bc it does not name the father just Sophia.
There were 3 more children born to her by the way whilst she was living in Johns house.
On the 1871 census the youngest was 7 weeks.
I am waiting for Henry's mc to see if he names a father on that.
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::)Just a finishing touch to this topic.
I have today received the marriage certificate for Henry Mellors.
It states his father was John Hemstock (Castrator)
It starts another puzzle though.
Henry was born to Sophia BEFORE John married his invisible wife.
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Hi Tomarx,
You don't know for certain that the John Hemstock who married Elizabeth Paxton is your John - he is 65 in 1861 so his marriage could have been back in 1815. Hopefully the results of the 1851 lookup will have him living with this mystery wife. ;) Happy searching Jan
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Hiya
1851 census
HO107 2139 33 28
Flintham
John Hemstock head mar 54 castrator Notts. Flintham
Mary wife 61 Notts Shelton??
??Sarah dau 30 at home Flintham
and this marriage entry
John Hemstock and Mary Ross 05/02/1816 at Shelton
No Sophia found as yet on the census for this year.
So did Johns wife die or what I wonder for as you all know Our Henry was born 1857
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Hi Topmarx,
It is a puzzle. ??? If she died why doesn't John either list himself as widower or marry Sophia ??? ??? If she is alive in 1871 where is she. I've had a good search for a possible Mary in 1871 but not found anyone definite. There are a couple of widows about the right age one a Mary Henthstone the other a Hogsgersthorpe but that's it. ??? :-\ Regards Jan
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:- :- I wonder could she have been in an asylum or some such place??
Would such a list be available for a census ???
Its all very intriguing_
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I also wondered about that and searched for Mary of the right age as inmate and also patient anywhere in the country and born anywhere but no-one popped up with a surname that was remotely like Hemstock. ??? Jan
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>:( Oh Heck
The only other thing I can think then is that she could have started using her maiden name of Ross??
Did they do that then?? Do you know.
I think the best thing to do with this is to try to get a copy of John's will (If he left one).
It is just that Sophia seems to have stayed on in the house after his death. He was not young when he died (late 70's early 80's) and there is a chance that Mary was already dead but she just MAYBE mentioned in the will.
:-\ What do you think
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Good thought about her reverting to her maiden name but nothing doing :( I suppose she could have been living with someone as his wife which would make her impossible to locate. You could ask for a lookup for her in 1861 but since that is unindexed you would need to know where she was living. ??? I suppose a will might mention her. It is all very strange. ??? ::) :-\ Jan
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Hi again. Well I may as well answer you here as on the other thread :)
Sorry but I don't have burials for Flintham (they are not yet indexed by Notts FHS). So your option is either to examine the parish records for Flintham or trawl throught he GRO index for a possible death (Flintham being in the Bingham registration district). My own gut instinct is that Mary will have died in the few years after 1851.
Maybe you're trying to make it too complicated and it simply suited one or both of them not to bother with marriage? I have several such instances in my own tree....sometimes the woman took the man's name, sometimes not! I still like the idea of looking for a will though - you never know :)
Heather
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Not much of a contribution, but nobody seems to have mentioned inheritance.
In the "olden days" they used Alias's or had a double barreled surname to make sure a line of inheritance stayed intact, I have one instance in my tree of the Man taking his wifes surname to ensure a family line was kept intact.
My point is, that inheritance could be the reason they did'nt marry, or maybe he was just a chancer ;D
David.
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ok ;)
Lots of things to think about here.
I agree Heather sometimes wanting to know too much can make things get complicated and lets face it. We will never know the full story of our ancestors lives.
Thanks to you all anyway and it looks like I start trying to find a will.
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Sorry to butt in on your discussion, but I found it a very interesting read:)
I found a death recorded for Mary Hemstock in the Dec QTR 1858. Location on Free BMD is Bingham, which apparently includes the town your John & Mary are shown on in 1851.
Could be your mystery wife?
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Thank you..for taking an interest in my story.
Yes this could very well be the lady I am looking for.
Henry was born 1857, just before she died then.
So I am still wondering Why didn't he.
I wonder if there was a hospital or asylum in Bingham? Or maybe Sophia moved in after Mary's death.
A lot of queries in this one.
Thanks you again for the info.
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Hi again,
The Union Workhouse was in Bingham, see
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,4273.0.html
I'm wondering if John never married Sophia because he did not know Mary had died - afterall he does continue to list himself as married on censuses not widowed. He abandoned her for a younger woman, she ended up in the workhouse, he had no further contact with her or his children from the marriage ??? ??? Who knows ??? Regards Jan
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This could just be a weird coincedence, but on FreeBMD, I found a possible 1860 marriage between John Hemstock & Mary Ann Mellors.
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Yes Jan exactly..who knows.
Still it is all very mysterious. I hope that the marriage in 1860 is a coincience as it gets even more mind boggling.
I would love the use of a time machine woudn't you? ???
No wonder my Gran told me she knew nothing of her past :-X