RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: little meg on Saturday 29 August 09 10:31 BST (UK)
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Hi all,
yesterday I was given a book about convicts, 'For Better or Worse', convict Lives shaped by transportation, by Tony Satchell.
There is a number of convicts listed and some history on them, also some images of what they may have looked like based on the description given.
Happy to provide info to anyone who has a convict listed in the book.
It is a decent list of names but would be willing to put the list up if that is easier.
Margaret
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Hi Margaret
My convicts are Thomas Johnson and Sarah Perry or Trueman (she could appear under either name). Are either of them mentioned?
Thanks
MarieC
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Hi Margaret,
What a lovely gift. Any mention of Charles Vimpany?
Thanks
Sue
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Unfortunately, neither, Thomas Johnson, Sarah Perry or Trueman are mentioned,.
Also no Charles Vimpany, sorry.
On reading the Foreword it states:
This book portrays the lives of 88 convicts transported to Van Diemen's Land, NSW and Western australia.
Twelve convicts came from Ireland, 6 from Scotland and the remainder England.
Details of the lives of 82 have been provided by their descendants, and the remainder is a result of my research.
Margaret
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Oh well, it was worth a try.
Thank you very much for looking
Sue
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Not about the book but a snippet about the author - Tony SATCHELL transcribed a diary which was written during a journey from England to Victoria in 1847. The author of the diary was a distant rellie. I found the transcribed diary at the NLA with information that it could be copied, but was advised I would need the author's permission, copyright and all that! Fortunately the library had Tony's contact details and he did much better than give permission for the NLA to copy, he mailed me one of his copies. Very much appreciated by me :)
Cheers
Cando
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How wonderful Cando, sounds like a lovely gentleman.
But brings me to worry, am I allowed to provide the details of his book to fellow Rootschatters, or do I need his permission :-\ :P
Margaret
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Thanks for looking anyway, Margaret! :)
He does indeed sound a very nice man.
I think it's quite legal to copy less than 10% of a book for private research purposes, so I'm sure you'll be fine if any Rootschatter DOES have a convict included in the book! It will be a bit of a long shot anyway, with so few included.
MarieC
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Hi, Just wondering if you have any Sims from wiltshire transported c1830.Thanks
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Do any of these names appear in your book (my direct blood ancestors)? They are all NSW arrivals.
Stephen Williams "Eleanor" 1831
William McCready "Recovery" 1823
Mary Clark "Woodman" 1823
Thomas Sarjeant "Marquis of Hastings" 1827
George Smith "Fortune" 1806
Edward Robinson "Admiral Barrington" 1791
Mary Harrison "Mary Ann" 1791
Sarah Dorest "Lady Juliana" 1790
I have more (non-blood) convicts, who married into the family either by 2nd marriage, or marrying siblings of the above. However, just the above 8 will do, if you are able to - thanks.
Les
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Oh dear, still none of the forementioned convicts, ::)
think it might be easier for me to type them all up ;D
Barbara Adams
Charlotte Barnacle
Samuel Basset
Edward Beamond
John Clarke Beckwith
Mary Ann Boden
Richard Bowden
William Bransby
Elijah Brown
Elizabeth Bull
William Butcher
Rebecca Cassells
George Chamley
Amos Cole
Ann Newman
Robert Cross
Mathew Cute
Thomas Dagley
William Dodwell
William Dove
Ann Drayson
Sarah Dunhill
Snowden Dunhill
Newman Emmerton
James Henry Foy
James Thomas Freeman
John Gall
Samuel Green
Margaret Kirby
Thomas Haddon
Mary Holdings
William Hanson
Mary Ann Owen
Margaret Harley
Charles Haywood
James Hockey
Margaret Kelly
Mary Lettice
James Long
William Lythgo
Sarah Lythgo
Thaddus Mahoney
George Margerrison
Stephen Markwell
Richard Matthews
William Valentine Maybury
Rosanna McDowell
Paul Milkins
James Moore
Samuel Morey
Rose Mulligan
Michael Joseph O'Brien
Margaret McLean
William O'Niel
James O'Neill
Mary Farrell
Thomas Parler
Eleanor Williams
William Peeler
Mary Bentley
James Pickett
Anne Nowlan
William Roberts
Agnes McMillan
William Rowe
Moses Rowlands
Christian William Roworth
Michael Ryan
John Sanderson
Charles Shard
William Skinn
John Smith (1781-1887)
Sarah Smith
Francis Sowter
Sarah Stanhope (Stanfield)
Frederick Hugh Thomas
Ambrose Tibbetts
James Turner
Joseph Turvey
William Walker
John Ward
Hannah Wardle
William Ware
James Macy Warren
William Weeks
George Williamson
Hannah Tillotson
William Wright
There you go, think that is it ;D
Thought I had better put the date in for the John Smith entry ::)
Margaret
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Thanks for list of names,shame none of mine :'(others will be happy to have a match.
Thanks again
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Hi Margaret
Could I just have a brief check on Mary Bentley? If she looks as though she comes from the East End of London, from a family of watermen and lightermen, I would be very interested in knowing more about her!
MarieC
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Thankyou for the kind offer Margaret,
William Christian Roworth was one of mine.
Could you please tell me wha you have about him
Cheers
Romaly
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Ah now see, I should have done it this way in the first place ;D
Marie, for Marie Bentley, sorry was not in alphabetical order for a couple as they link with some of the other names, she was linked with William Peeler.
Doesn't look like your Mary Bentley though.
In May 1839 William Peeler married Mary Bentley, a native of Linlithgow, Scotland
Sorry.
Hi Romaly,
There is at least half a page of typed info and an artist impression of what he may have looked like (although in my opinion he looks more like he stepped out of the 1960's with a rock n'roll hairstyle, lol)
The pages of the book refuses to sit flat which makes it difficult to copy from >:(
Some quick info to start:
At 13 William Christian Roworth(1820-1864) and another boy were convicted in January 1834 of stealing three pocket books, eleven pencils and two flutes from the shop of James Tyler in Shoreditch, East London.
If you send me a pm, with your email address, it might be easier for me to send you the info that way.
That is up to you, if you don't want to pass on your personal details I will endevour to type up the rest here for you ;)
I am still learning to use my new scanner and computer, so will have to learn how to put up the scanned images and where I am to save them ::) I got so use to the old one.
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Thanks for looking, anyway, Margaret! :)
It was just a chance, anyway - check out everything, is my motto! ;D
MarieC
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totally agree Marie ;D
Ok, I have scanned the pic of william christian roworth, but this is the first time I have done it, so please forgive if does not come up so good :-[
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hmmm, not so good, was better before I shrunk it. :P
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Oh dear, still none of the forementioned convicts, ::)
think it might be easier for me to type them all up ;D
Margaret
Thanks for looking anyway, Margaret. Don't worry too much about not finding them. I have a book on old Taunton (Eng), and offered to look up residents that may be mentioned in the book (topic on another thread). I've had lots of request, but unfortunately not many hits - joys of researching ???
Les
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Hi Margaret
Thanks for doing this.
I notice a Sarah Smith in the list, there were lots of them. Could you please post her birth and death details so I can tell if it's my wife's ancestor. If it is I will PM with my email.
Cheers
Bob
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Hi Bob,
The Sarah Smith mentioned in the book - 1800-1865
18 year old servant convicted at Surrey Quarter Sessions in Jan 1818. Transported same year.
In 1819 she married Joseph Hopkins in Launceston and Thomas Webb in 1836.
Hope this is enought for you to go with ;D
Margaret
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Hi Margaret
That's her, I'll send a PM. I'm sure I've got everything on this interesting lady but you never know eh!
Cheers
Bob
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Great stuff, thats two happy customers ;D
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Dear Margaret
Would love any information about Frederick Hugh Thomas listed in book - he is gr,gr,grandfather of my husband.
Many thanks
Luana
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Hi Luana, welcome to Rootschat.
yes there is : Frederick Hugh Thomas 1817-1885 born Newcastle, England
Is that your man?
I will have to get back to you later, visitors today.
Sounds like a great story, he obscondonded and got lost and was captured by aboriginals. ;D
Margaret
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Just been following this thread - wow this book sounds like a good read for sure. Might put it on my Xmas wish list. Unfortunatley none of my convicts were listed on the previous post.
Regards Troods
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Hi Troods,
yes a good book, I do not have anyone listed but had hoped I could help others.
Luana, I have sent you a pm, but since you only have one posting you will not be able to reply to me yet.
Margaret
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Frederick Hugh Thomas is our man and dying to hear more. Live Queensland, currently on holidays in Ireland.
Cheers Luana
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Hi Margaret........Elizabeth Bull sounds interesting. Would you be able to tell me more about her?
Thanks.
Kim
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Luana, we will work out something ;)
Modified - I have typed it all up in the pm for you.
Kim, Elizabeth Bull details are:
1807-1879
1827, found guilty at the old bailey for stealing a watch and money
Married James Cooper in 1823 - 7children
Married Samuel Howlett in 1857
Hope that is the one you are looking for :)
I do wish this book would open flat for easy reading and copying of info, ::) ;D
Margaret
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Hi Margaret...........Thanks for that. Im not sure if she fits in with my Bull's yet but will keep the info in case I come across a connection.
Thanks,
Kim
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Not a problem - just let me know if you want the information
Margaret
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Hi Margaret
Paul Milkins is my gggggrandfather - any info on him very welcome :)
Bronwyn
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Hello Margaret,
William and Sarah Lythgo[nee Rogers]. They are not from my direct line but my GGGG Uncle Francis Kemp married their daughter Elizabeth[nee Wilson]. William and Sarah are buried just down the road from me.
They both done very well for themselves after their arrival into Van Dieman`s land. Their row of cottages are still standing today. They are now used for posh accomodation ;D
Sadly four of their six children died very young. :'(
Johngirl
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Dear Bronwyn and Johngirl,
I will get the information to you shortly via pm.
Margaret
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Hi
i would be interested in any information in your book on Charles Shard he was my gr gr grandfather transsported for theft to Van Diemens Land in 1830
Jenny
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Hi Jenny,
welcome to Rootschat ;D
I will send you the information to your personal messages, however you will not be able to reply as you do not have enough postings.
Margaret
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Thanks for that I have not used Rootschat before except to look at occasionally but have never found anything applicable to my searches
up to now
Jenny
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Hi Margaret
I recognize the name on the convict list snowden dunhill, he was a great uncle many times removed. What info do you have for him a scan of a pic would be great.
regards
tony
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Hi Tony,
I will send you a pm (personal message) with the details.
There is also a page on his wife in the book and mention of a autobiography by Snowden in her page, but not in his ::) Strange.
Margaret
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Hi Margaret
thanks we will send you a couple of replies until we have posted sufficient. We already have the autobiography of Snowden & it does make interesting reading.
kind Regards
Tony
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Hi Tony, well you are off to a very good start if you already have the autobiography.
It would not surprise me if the author of the book got a lot of his info from that one. :-\
Brilliant.
Looking forward to your reply ;)
Margaret
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Margaret,
Is William Brown previously known as William Clark mentioned.
He was transported 31 Jul 1845 on Stratheden and received a pardon before arriving I believe in Victoria.
Mick
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Hi Mick,
sorry neither of those names are mentioned in the book.
I have got the list of names up on this thread, page 1 ;)
Margaret
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Just to clarify (so many posts it makes my head scramble!! ;D - sorry!) - are these convicts ALL transported to Tassie?
I have a Michael O'Brien who disappeared into the ether shortly after his arrival in Australia in 1823 but he came to NSW. Would love to think that there could be some link with the one mentioned in your book.
Absolutely anything to make this man reappear would be fantastic!!
Philippa
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Hi Philippa,
in the foreward, the author states, "This book portrays the lives of 88 convicts transported to Van Diemens Land, New South Wales and Western Australia.'
The Michael O'Brien mentioned in the book was born in 1826, one of five children to John and Mary O'Brien in Dublin.
He was arrested in 1843, (in London) and arrived in Hobart in Oct 1843.
He married Margaret McLean in 1855, Hobart Town.
Going by these date, sadly I cannot see a link with your Michael O'Brien. :-*
good luck with your search.
Margaret
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Hi Margaret
we know most of the stuff about his time in the UK. Really sketchy about what he did over in Australia.
thanks
tony
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Thank you for checking, Margaret. I didn't really think I'd be lucky but you never know!!!!
Back to my digging in Queensland. ;)
All the best,
Philippa
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Oh dear, still none of the forementioned convicts, ::)
think it might be easier for me to type them all up ;D
James Henry Foy
He is my great-great-grandfather. Would appreciate anything you care to share. Thank you very much.
Kind regards
Viv
Mentone VIC AUS
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Hi Viv,
Welcome to Rootschat,
will check details and send as pm.
Just reminded that i had still not sent info for someone else :o :-[
sorry!! Getting there
Mentone - just done the road ;D ;D
Margaret
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Mentone - just done the road ;D ;D
From where????? Intriguing!
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P.m. coming your way.
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ok, Margaret is now up to date ;D ;D
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Hi Meg
Thank you for the offer.
John Clarke Bethwick is on your list. Apart from his father who was deceased and a brother who decided to stay in Suffolk, it was only a matter of a few years before the rest of the family had emigrated to Tasmania. It would be interesting to get even a small insight into the man who started this migration and to learn of his crime.
Regards
Hal
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Hi Hal,
Here is the convict record for your John Bethwick. His last name is transcribed as Beckwith.
http://search.archives.tas.gov.au/ImageViewer/image_viewer.htm?CON33-1-35,273,36,L,80
I also found this marraige for your John.
John Clarke Beckwith married Sophia Denny 28/3/1854 registered at Hobart.
Reg number 814/1854 RGD 37.
I could find no children born to this couple.
I found a John Beckwith buried at the Cornelian Bay Cemetery.
Buried with him is a Sophia Beckwith.I would say that this is your John Clarke Beckwith and his wife Sophia Beckwith {nee Denny}
Also buried with them is a William Denny. :)
Wesley, section J,number 54.
Johngirl
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Hi Hal I found a bit more.
http://newspapers.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/8793904?searchTerm=john+clarke+beckwith
http://newspapers.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/12712478?searchTerm=john+clarke+beckwith
Not sure about that one.Its is a marraige notice for his daughter but does say John Clarke Beckwith is from Bentley Suffolk England.There is also mention of a sister of the bride. ;D Sorry but I could find no children for John and Sophia. ???
http://newspapers.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/12668524?searchTerm=john+clarke+beckwith
Interesting one for a death notice for John` brother.Has information also about John Clarke Beckwith. Bit hard to read though as its faded. :(
http://newspapers.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/12302484?searchTerm=john+clarke+beckwith
Obituary notice for John Clarke Beckwith.Strange one as it also has a death notice for him under the name Denny that has been put in the paper by his wife Sophia. :o
http://newspapers.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/12387951?searchTerm=john+clarke+beckwith
Obituary notice for Sophia Beckwith John`s wife.
There are more articles on John Clarke Beckwith in the Newspapers.Click onto the link below and type in John Clarke Beckwith. Click onto the Mercury newspapers and you will find the articles.Mainly in the advertising sections but you may find more in the news sections.
http://newspapers.nla.gov.au/
The will of John Clarke Beckwith.
http://digital.statelibrary.tas.gov.au:1801/view/action/nmets.do?DOCCHOICE=AD960-1-26-6584.xml&dvs=1275227439704~49&locale=en_AU&search_terms=&adjacency=&DELIVERY_RULE_ID=4&usePid1=true&usePid2=true
Hope this helps :)
Johngirl
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Hi Johngirl,
Thank you for a wonderful response and for a speedy reply; and for the extra work in providing me with so much additional information to absorb.
Sorry for getting the name wrong - a bad case of transposition. As I sit here I am wondering - is it Bethwick or is it Beckwith? Just kidding, you got it right!
Thanks again
HAL
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Hi Hal,
Thats Ok. ;D :-* I will try and find the children to John and Sophia as they obviously had children. ;D
Next time I visit the Cornelian Bay Cemetery I will see if there is a headstone for John and Sophia. :)
Johngirl
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Hi Margaret,
I have just discovered this post and was very excited. My ancestors were William Peeler and Mary Bentley. I would love any info on them that is in the book you have.
Thanks in advance.
Brooke
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Hello Margaret,
I'm another one who's just come across your lovely offer. I am connected to Francis SOWTER. I would love any information that you have to offer.
Regards,
Kathryn
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Hi Kathryn,
Recently in Tasmania I came across this book. I am willing to share any info with you about your ancestor. Would you like to email me at?
Thanks,
Brooke
Moderator Comment: email address removed as per RootsChat policy. Please use our secure PM (personal message) system to share email addresses and other personal information. Thank You.
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Hi Brooke,
That'd be fantastic. Please PM me with the details.
Cheers,
Kathryn
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Hi little meg
I think you have just about become the most popular person on rootschat at the moment.
Levi Emmerton, the son of 'Newman Emmerton' on your list, married into my Skinner line. Newman was apparently a very colourful character and married Jane Hayward in 1849 in Adelaide. There is quite a bit about him on the web.
This is all I have on him so I presume it is the same person
Newman was sent on 2nd May, 1834 to the 'Leviathan' prison hulk (one of up to 40 prison ships in various river ports, before transportation. The "Leviathan" was built in 1790/2 at Chatham as a 74 gun warship and was part of the flotilla at the Battle of Trafalgar. The ship was used as a prison and convict hulk from 1816 to 1843 being finally broken up in 1843 at Portsmouth.
He is assumed to have received a ticket of leave and moved to Adelaide where he married in 1849.
He was married in the original St Johns Church, Halifax Street, Adelaide on 27th April, 1849 to Jane Hayward
Jane who was born at Bathford near Bath in 1829 had travelled to Hobart on the ship "ORLEANA" from London/Plymouth as an immigrant. Family consisted of parents and 6 children. She moved to Adelaide arriving on the ship "SISTERS" from Hobart in 26th June,1845 with her mother and other children. Her father was already in Adelaide
I don't want any info from your book because he is no real direct relationship to me....
What a great book to have come into possession of!!
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Hi Margaret,
I am the 3x g grandson of Amos Cole & Ann Newman.
Any information you have on either or both of these convicts would be greatly appreciated
Kind regards
Glenn
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Hi Glenn,
welcome to Rootschat ;)
I will copy the info in the next couple of days, promise. Have a few things on my plate at the moment.
Will be pleased to help you.
Margaret
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Thanks Margaret :)
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Can you tell me if there is any information in the book on William Valentine Maybury? I see he is on the list. Thanks, Sue :)
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Hi Sue,
I will have a look for you.
I thought I had lost the book, sorry, misplaced it ;D or leant it out, and today, whilst looking for something else - I found it.
Of course I did not find the item I was looking for ::)
I will send you a personal message with the details, also, Glenn, haven't forgotten you ;)
Margaret
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I am now up to date with all the enquiries, but have to add that I will not be able to do any more.
Due to various committments I will be very busy and will not have time to reply.
Sorry, hoping I have been of help to many of you and your searches.
regards
Margaret
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Thanks so much Meg. You uncovered some little pearls in there we didn't have before.
You are amazing!
Love Sue
Hi Sue,
I will have a look for you.
I thought I had lost the book, sorry, misplaced it ;D or leant it out, and today, whilst looking for something else - I found it.
Of course I did not find the item I was looking for ::)
I will send you a personal message with the details, also, Glenn, haven't forgotten you ;)
Margaret
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MY CONVICTS ARE ELIZABETH PULLEY AND ANTHONY ROPE
BUBS
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MY CONVICTS ARE ELIZABETH PULLEY AND ANTHONY ROPE
BUBS
I can help you with Elizabeth PULLEY & Anthony ROPE, what do you need to know?
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just wanted to know if anything was in the book about them
Bubs
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just wanted to know if anything was in the book about them
Bubs
If you go back to the first page & read post #10 all the names that are in the book have been listed by little meg :)
Elizabeth & Anthony aren't on the list or in the book that's why I asked if you need any information on them 8)
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no thank you but thanks for the offer
Bubs
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I've nearly finished reading "The Floating Brothel" by Sian Rees, being "the extraordinary story of female convicts bound for Botany Bay". Circa 1788 it is based mainly about life aboard the ship 'The Lady Julian/a' and the sometimes tortuous journey to Sydney Cove. It has quite a lot of names included with the crimes committed and where plus references to other ships. It may just contradict the conception that all convict transports were 'coffin ships' and add a bit of real-life? to names and dates.
I've not looked up any references/info on the internet - you can do that!
Kim
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I am a decendant of convict Moses Rowlands arr 1825 on the Sir Charles Forbes. I would love to share info on him.
Cheers Jenny (nsw aust)
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If you are still doing look ups id love any information in it on
Thomas Haddon
Mary Holdings
thank you
Just read the rest of the thread. :( Was nice of oyu to offer as long as you did, ;D
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See "Notorious Strumpets & Dangerous Girls" by Phillip Tardif, giving details of female convicts transported to Tassie 1803-1829. Cheers, PLT
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Hi Meg, I would dearly love the info you sent to another on Elizabeth Bull who married Cooper. We are from one of her sons. Thank you so much. Joany.