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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Midlothian => Topic started by: emmadog on Sunday 30 August 09 22:31 BST (UK)
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I am trying to trace records of any kind for a Margaret b. circa 1875 surname as above (three different spellings from Birth and marriage certificates. She lived in the Gateshead area of Durham but on 1911 census said that she was born Scotland, resident of Edinburgh. Her father was named John (from both of her marriage certs.
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This is a really helpful 1881 census - not!
It's the nearest match to the surname but I have my doubts its the right one
3 Couper Street Leith Midlothian
Mrs. Malloch 33
Margaret 6
Christina 4
John 2
Leith North ED 9 Page 2 Line 18
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In 1891 - the above Margaret is living with her grandmother so if you have her on the English 1891 - it's the wrong entry
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She did not get married (1st time) until 1904 in Gateshead. She had a son in 1899 (Gateshead) but I cannot find them on the 1901 census for the area. She appears on the 1911 census with her second husband and family,2 sons and 1 daughter.
Did not know anything about her until 1911 census as we knew her sons d.o.b. as 1900 and he seems to have taken her first husbands surname (all very confusing) no wonder I could not find my poor old grandad!!!!
As I said in first post the surname is spelled three different was Mallachin on birth cert of son Charles and the other two on her marriage certs.
Barbara
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Just remembered, my father can remember my grandad saying that he played as a child down a street just off Princes Street Edinburgh ( when they were visiting for a day) so he was probably either living there for a while or visiting his mothers family.
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I think CaroleW is correct in discounting the Leith record....Leith was not part of Edinburgh in 1881.
Hibee
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Hi everyone, I wonder if there is anyone able to look up on 1901 census for the above named Margaret. She does not seem to be on the English Census for 1901 and I wonder if she was staying with her parent/s in Edinburgh at the time of the 1901 Census. If she was in Edinburgh she would have with her a son Charles b. 1899 Gateshead. Her father was named John.
Thanks
Barbara.
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The IGI has an extracted birth of a Michael Mallachan to John Mallachan and Mary McDonald 1872 Dundee. Possible brother to Margaret?
Possible marriage 1867 Dundee, Mary McDonald to John Mechin?
Kirsty
edit: 1891 census on SP has 4 matches for Mallachan, 5 matches in 1861. Using wildcards could bring up more.
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On the 1911 census for Gateshead Margaret states that she is a resident of Edinburgh if that is any help to anyone.
Thanks Kirsty for your searching,
Barbara.
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Hi Barbara
Something is not right with the surname :-\ I am wondering whether in the English certs that you have, Margaret's original surname has got confused. I would imagine she had one of those surnames that was open to mistranscriptions which never helps :-\
What was her father's occupation showing in her two marriage certs down in England?
Monica
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Also, could Margaret have cut off a few years off her age over the years? There is this entry in 1881 with a surname closer to what you have:
John Mallichar 55, Slipper Maker b. Ireland
Mary Mallichar 51 washerwoman, b. Edinburgh
Ellen Mallichar 14 lace spinner b. Edinburgh
Maggie Mallichar 12 b. Edinburgh
Andrew Mallichar 10 b. Edinburgh
John Inglis 4, grandson b. Edinburgh
Address: 4 Niddry Street, Canongate, Edinburgh
Monica
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Hi there,
Niddrie Street runns down the back of the North Bridge, which is on the turning from Princes Street. You come up the Bridges, turn left onto the High Street and first right down Niddry Street......
Lynda
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Thanks Lynda :) Trying to track this family back in the censuses and it's a bit of a nightmare down to the surname.
I think this might be them in 1871 - everyone born in Edinburgh apart from John:
John Malhen 40 shoemaker b. Ireland
Mary Malhen 39
John Malhen 13
Alexander Malhen 9
Ellen Malhen 5
Marget Malhen 2
Address: 33 Saint Mary St, Canongate, Edinburgh
And perhaps in 1861 - not trusting much the ages I am seeing for John and Mary:
John Milhady 39, Marble Sawer b. Ireland
Mary Milhady 38
Mary Ann Milhady 11
John Milhady 3
Thomas Milhady 8 Months
Address: 21 Leith Wynd, Canongate, Edinburgh
Tried finding some of the birth of the children with just the batch codes on IGI but not yet seeing anything...... One of those surnames unfortunately ;D
Monica
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Hi Monica.... what aouit Mallen or Mallan
Lynda
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Looking at anything remotely close on IGI but not seeing the children's entries as yet.
A possible entry in 1891 and perhaps a second marriage for John:
John Mallachan 63, Shoemaker (Unem) b. Edinburgh
Margaret Mallachan 59 b. Inverness
John Mallachan 19 b. Edinburgh
Address: 4 Niddry Street, Canongate, Edinburgh
.....and there I lose the trail!
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There is this possible entry for example for the Thomas who shows 1861 as aged 8 months on IGI:
THOMAS MAILEY Birth:29 SEP 1860 Edinburgh Parish, Edinburgh
Parents: JOHN MAILEY and MARY FIHELEY
Not sure if we are getting warm and have to admit, I was hoping for a nice simple name for the possible mother Mary!
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Oh wow!! how much information. Thanks for your help.
Working back from 1911 census -
Thomas Coyne b. Armagh Ireland (second husband)
Margaret Coyne aged 37 yrs b. Scotland Edinburgh resident.
Thomas Coyne 1 year b. Blyth Nbld.
Charles Johnson 10 years b. Gateshead Durham. (grandfather)
Mary E Johnson 8 years b. Gateshead Durham.
I know this is the correct family as I did know Thomas Coyne junior when I was young but did not know if he was half/step brother.
1901 Census - I have not found anything for this census in England.
We had always been told that my grandfather was born June 1900 but could never find anything. When I eventually found marriage certs for Margaret I then searched under her maiden name and found the following birth.
Charles Mallachin b. 9th June 1899 in Gateshead workhouse to Margaret Mallachin a tobacconists asst. No fathers name.
Marriage cert dated 27th June 1904 Margaret Mallighan aged 33 years (1871) to Charles Johnson in Gateshead. Father was John Mallighan (deceased) Labourer. Charles Johnson Died September 1904!!!
Marriage cert dated 3rd March 1906 Margaret Johnson nee. Mallichan to Thomas Coyne at South Shields. Father was John Mallichan (deceased) General labourer.
The different versions of the surname has not helped me find any information about Margaret and I thought it was because she was Scottish and the accent was the cause of it when she was registering everything in England where the accent is Geordie!!!!!
Hopes this helps as to where all the different surnames came from.
Just going to try and digest all the information you chatters have come up with.
Barbara
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Sorry my last post was so long winded but I wanted to put down all the information.
I wonder if the 1881 family could be the correct family as mother Mary, daughter Ellen and Margaret had a daughter Mary Ellen (correct name as she was witness on my grandparents marr. cert.)
Barbara
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Hi Barbara
I found Mary, mother, death cert in 1886, aged 55.
She shows as first married to a Joseph Inglis, a rope spinner, and then to John Mallachin, shoe maker. Parents Alexander, a cooper by trade, and mother Mary Fraser.
Husband John Mallachin reported the death. Address as we had on the censuses, 4 Niddry Street.
I wish we could find a definitive link for Margaret to this family.
Still struggling to find birth regs for children. Possible entry for Helen (Ellen) as illegitimate on 08 FEB 1866 (from IGI) with only mother showing as Mary Grant.
Monica
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I haven't looked at the actual image on SP but entry looks likely for a marriage between a John Malaghan and a Mary Grant in 1875 in Canongate.
So, if John and Mary were already living together from potentially 1861 to Mary's death, I wonder if children's birth entries would show under Grant and therefore illegitimate (father would have to attend the birth registration for the entry to show under his surname - not uncommon either).
Monica
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My goodness you have worked quickly. I wish I could find things so quick ( might help if I knew where to look.) On the marriage of Mary to Joseph Inglis, on 1881 census there is a John Inglis aged 4 who is down as grandson. I was wondering where he came from, now I know.
I am forever in your debt for all the information you have dug up for me. I was beginning to think I may never trace my grandads mothers family as he had no father on his birth cert. I have only his mothers to find.
Barbara
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Have you ever found Margaret's daughter, Mary Ellen's birth entry? I know she shows as born c. 1902 but I saw this entry and wondered whether it might be hers:
1901 2nd Qrt Mary Millican, Gateshead 10a/1084
I thought it might help you narrow down where Margaret and Charles were for 1901, if it is the right one :)
Sister Ellen for the Margaret family we have back in Edinburgh was on to her second marriage by 1901. She shows with her daughters in Edinburgh, occupation tobacco spinner which I thought might have some connections with what your Margaret was doing in the late 1890s.
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No, I have not tracked sown the birth record for Mary Ellen but will e-mail Gateshead Register office to see if this Mary has got a mother Margaret and if she has will send for certificate.
Barbara
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Let's see what they say to you :)
Monica
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Hi again, I have e-mailed Gateshead register office last night and received an answer today but unfortunately the record we thought was Mary Ellen did not have the mother as Margaret so back to square one.
Barbara.
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Back to scratch on where Maggie and son Charles were for 1901 aren't we :-\
Monica
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I'm again beginning to think Charles (grandad) must be a figment of my imagination. He's certainly giving me the run around.
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Hi it's me again. I just thought I would let you now that I have again been on to Gateshead R.O.
I e-mailed them about a Mary Mulligan b. Dec 1901 in Gateshead hoping that she would be Charles sister but once again her mother was not registered as Margaret.
Back to square one again.
Barbara.
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Hi Monica,
just a quick note to say sorry for not being in touch for such a long time. I have kept looking at all the information that you kindly found out for me.
The more I have looked at it the more I think you have the right family. I have spent quite a bit of money on Scotlands people but have got absolutely nowhere ( maybe I am not looking properly). I have looked up all the streets that were on the different census and they all seem to be near each other so looks hopeful but I still cannot find any birth, marriage or death records for any of the family.
Thank you so much for all the help you have given.
Barbara.
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Hi Barbara
It is a battle with this family isn't it!
Right, I have come at it again afresh with clearish mind....I haven't looked at again Margaret's missing years from the likely entry with family in 1881 up to the 1901 census...she's still AWOL for those years.....
I do think we have her family in Edinburgh, but it's a bit of a mish-mash on the records although I think I have now found most of the birth records for the children on IGI.
Just to recap:
We have Mary Grant as likely mother for Margaret. From her death cert. in 1886, her parents showed as Alexader Grant and Mary Fraser. Mary's birth shows on IGI on 11 FEB 1830 Saint Cuthberts, Edinburgh.
Also from her DC, we have a first marriage to a Joseph Inglis which shows on 20 JUL 1849 Saint Cuthberts, Edinburgh (father Alexander which matches the death entry and birth above).
Two children show to them post the start of official registration in 1855:
1. FLORA INGLIS Birth: 17 SEP 1855 Edinburgh Parish, Edinburgh...looks to have died in 1856
2. JOHN INGLIS Birth: 24 MAY 1857 Edinburgh Parish, Edinburgh
There is a likely death for Joseph Inglis in 1859 in Edinburgh.
I think this is the family in 1851/61:
1851:
Joseph Engles 22, rope spinner b. Edinburgh
Mary Engles 21 b. Edinburgh
Mary Grant 67 mother in law b. Highlands, North
Address: 24 Kelley Brae, Edinburgh St Cuthberts
1861 (the one I posted before is wrong):
Ellen Clark 30, Sempstress b. Edinburgh
Rosa Ann Clark 7 daughter b. Edinburgh
Mary Inglis 31, sister in law, Sempstress b. Edinburgh
John Inglis 3 nephew b. Edinburgh
Address: 9 Trunk Close, Canongate Edinburgh
These were the census entries we already had for later years:
1871:
John Malhen 40 shoemaker b. Ireland
Mary Malhen 39
John Malhen 13
Alexander Malhen 9
Ellen Malhen 5
Marget Malhen 2
Address: 33 Saint Mary St, Canongate, Edinburgh
1881:
John Mallichar 55, Slipper Maker b. Ireland
Mary Mallichar 51 washerwoman, b. Edinburgh
Ellen Mallichar 14 lace spinner b. Edinburgh
Maggie Mallichar 12 b. Edinburgh
Andrew Mallichar 10 b. Edinburgh
John Inglis 4, grandson b. Edinburgh
Address: 4 Niddry Street, Canongate, Edinburgh
We then had John Mallichan living with a 'wife' Margeret in 1891 although I can't find that marriage on SP.
We also have the marriage of a John Malaghan (as spelt on SP) and a Mary Grant in 1875 in Canongate -have you looked at this to see what it says?
I'll continue on a next post with possible births...
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Hard to say when Mary Grant met and began living with John Mallighan and whether he was the father of all the children who show as born post 1861.
From the children we have on the censuses and trying to find their birth entries through IGI:
The Inglis children are quite straightforward and are posted above.
Alexander b. 1862, I think this might be his entry:
ALEXANDER GRIEVE Birth: 30 APR 1861 Edinburgh Parish, Edinburgh - mother Mary Grant, no father.
HELEN GRANT Birth: 08 FEB 1866 Edinburgh Parish, Edinburgh - mother Mary Grant, no father.
ANDREW INGLIS Birth: 24 APR 1871 Edinburgh - mother Mary Inglis, no father. I am wondering whether Mary registered under her married name (still not married to John Mallaghan).
Now on to Margaret who is still proving super elusive!
The nearest I came to was this entry:
MARGARET MILLER Birth: 26 MAY 1868 Edinburgh Parish, Edinburgh, father John Miller, a shoemaker journeyman and a Mary Grant. The address shows as 36 Saint Mary's Wynd. There is a marriage date showing on the cert for 1851.
The reason I think this may be your Margaret is the birth address is a couple of doors down from that showing on the census in 1871. Also, Helen's birth in 1866 shows as 33 Saint Mary's Wynd. Father's occupation is also what we have for John Mallaghan. I think Mary Grant may have tried to pass herself off as married to John, whether she stated the surname as Miller or the registrar made a mistake would be pure guesswork!
I don't think we are going to get any closer on Margaret's Edinburgh years. Am I making any sense? ;D
Monica :)
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John MALLICHAN died in 1898, widower of Mary Grant. Daughter Ellen (by now Brannan) reported the death. Death date would fit with Margaret's MCs showing her father John as deceased.
Monica
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HI,
Just to say that St Marys Street and Niddry Street both run off the High street one after the other on the right hand side as m sure that Blackfriars Street runs between them. St Mary's Street runs down to the Pleasance and Niddry Street runs onto the Cowgate. Hope this helps.Lynda
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Oh wow!!! Thanks for so much more information. It will probably take a while to digest and think about it all but I will get back to you soon.
Thanks again for all your help I'm most grateful.
Barbara.
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Firstly many many apologies for not replying for so long. Lots of family problems and event have meant not really had a chance to look at family tree. Retired in September now hoping to get back on track.
Just been looking at all the information given so long ago and agree with the information given by Monica L and Lyndyloo6. Some of it I had loosely thought about but you have confirmed those thoughts. Now I will have to put everything together and gather my thoughts about this elusive family.
I really can not thank all contributors enough for their help (this should have been done before now).
Barbara.
If I manage to get sorted will let you know.
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Barbara, enjoy retirement :) Hope life calmer for you now.
Monica
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Hi all, just to let you know that even after all the help I was given I am still not much further with this elusive family. I tend to be like a dog with a bone and keep coming back to it time after time.
The most important piece of info that I have found is the baptism certificate for my grandads sister Mary Ellen Johnson. It states Maria Helena Mallichan baptised on 20 October 1901 in Gateshead. Her date of birth was 10 September 1901 but have still not found a birth registered for her. I have been in touch with Gateshead register office but still no luck. Her mothers name on the baptism certificate is Margaretta Mallichan (latin names so presumably catholics.) strange I can find baptism certificate for Mary Ellen but not for Charles. No trace of Mary Ellen after my grandparents marriage when she was a witness. Well it certainly keeps me on my toes!
There is one plus though, I have just spent a few days up in Edinburgh and not far from where they lived so had a tour round the streets. Very interesting.
Just thought I would keep in touch and many many thanks, I would not be this far without your help.
Barbara.