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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Cornwall => Topic started by: bcharles4 on Monday 31 August 09 19:47 BST (UK)

Title: LIDDELL of Bodmin
Post by: bcharles4 on Monday 31 August 09 19:47 BST (UK)
Has anybody done any work on the Liddells of Bodmin?

I am just starting to map them out and would like to avoid duplicating somebody else's work

BC
Title: Re: Liddells of Bodmin
Post by: bcharles4 on Monday 31 August 09 19:50 BST (UK)
I've just found a mention under the Martyn family topic.  Is dmollison there?
Title: Re: LIDDELL of Bodmin
Post by: bcharles4 on Friday 25 September 09 16:51 BST (UK)
I have now mapped out the Liddells back to James Liddell born 1765 who appears to be the first to come to Cornwall (in the 1780s).  He appears to have come from Lancashire (see below).  Anybody know anything about Liddells there?

Best wishes
Barrie


The Royal Cornwall Gazette of 22 August 1889 has a long obituary on James' son Commander James Liddell.  Here is an extract:

‘His father was a native of Lancashire, but Commander Liddell was born at Bodmin, his parents having settled in Cornwall in the closing decade of the last century.’

This article is of course a hundred or so years after James Liddell came to Cornwall and presumably relies on information from relations of James junior, so we can't be sure that it's correct.  In addition his mother Mary was Cornish, so the article got it at least slightly wrong.  However, this information would appear to be all that we have concrete to go on so far.

The IGI reveals that there were Liddells in Lancashire at the appropriate date, but I cannot find a suitable birth of a James around 1765.  It's a mystery why he went to Cornwall.  Presumably he would have been apprenticed to a printer to learn his trade.  But whereso, in Manchester or Liverpool perhaps, or maybe in Exeter, Plymouth or Truro?  I wonder if the connection with the Martyns came first.  Are there any Printers in that family?

Title: Re: LIDDELL of Bodmin
Post by: Tom Piper on Friday 09 October 09 22:11 BST (UK)
There are numerous mentions of James Liddell, Bodmin in the Exeter newspapers from the turn of the 19th century, mostly in adverts for pills and lotions, his name or himself endorsing same.

He also appears as being a person who paid Fire Insurance.

The Manchester Times has the announcement of his death:
Manchester Times  Saturday, August 24, 1889
Liddell: on the 15th inst., at Castle Street, Bodmin, James Liddell, commander R. N. for many years  captain of the Wellington, aged 91

Following on from this there are around 19 entries for The Wellington on the run to Madras with Captain Liddell, from around 1833 onwards

Tom
Title: Re: LIDDELL of Bodmin
Post by: Tom Piper on Friday 09 October 09 22:26 BST (UK)
I added this resource on the India resources site-it's worth a visit again if you want to see the entries for Captain Liddell. Just put Liddell, Madras.


Allen's Indian Mail, and Register of Intelligence for British and Foreign India, China and all parts of the East.

http://books.google.co.nz/books?q=editions:OCLC12933469&id=wbUOAAAAQAAJ&sou

There are volumes for   1845, 1846, 1847, 1848, 1849, 1850, 1851, 1852, 1856, all searchable, very addictive.

Tom
Title: Re: LIDDELL of Bodmin
Post by: bcharles4 on Saturday 10 October 09 09:22 BST (UK)
Tom

I am most interested in Capt Liddell's father, James Liddell.  Do you think that the entry in the Manchester newspaper is an indication that his father came from that town?

Also, the mentions in the Exeter newspapers, would they be to father or son?  If the father, which titles?

Thanks for your help,
Barrie  :)
Title: Re: LIDDELL of Bodmin
Post by: Tom Piper on Sunday 11 October 09 10:20 BST (UK)
The fact that a Cornish death was copied to a Manchester newspaper, who took the trouble both to report it and give an obituary would indicate to me that there certainly was a Liddell connection in Lancashire. Very often I have found that such deaths when reported were accompanied by a comment (copy to Manchester newspapers)

Certainly the Liddell mentions in the early 1800's just say Liddell Bodmin, it would appear that he owned a shop in Bodmin:

This is the entry:

Trewman's Exeter Flying Post  Thursday, March 6, 1800
To be had of R. Trewman and Son Exeter, NATIONAL MAGAZINE (on an enlarged plan)

On Saturday next, the 1st of March will be published Price one shilling.

The Naval magazine, for February, 1800, containing twenty-four pages of Letter- Press extraordinary; and embellished with an elegant portrait of earl St. Vincent, K.B, engraved by GRANGER, from a picture by ABBOT.
This truly Magazine comprehends a compleat naval history of Great Britain………….etc

Printed for Harrison, Cluse and Co no. 78, Fleet-st, and sold by Trewman and Co, Exeter, Haydon, Plymouth; Syle, Barnstaple;Hoxland or Congdon, Plymouth-dock;Jackson, Dartmouth; Handford or Manning, Bideford; Huxtable, Southmolton; LIDDELL, BODMIN; Martin, Launceston etc, etc.

There are numerous others like it, around 160 entries, just for Bodmin.

There are other Liddell connections in Lancashire, it's just a matter of you getting access to  the database your self and putting in the Liddell surname and restricting it to Lancashire newspapers.

All that info comes from 48 British national newspapers available from gale Databases, but available online at Lancashire Library.

Yes easy-if in Uk, or abroad, go to

 http://www.lancashire.gov.uk/onrl/

You will see the database on the right of the screen.  You have to join the library first, yes join it as you would any other library.
Go to http://www.lancashire.gov.uk/libraries/borrower/join.asp

 They send you a library ticket, with a serial number upon it and use that number to gain access. You do have to give you home address, so they can send you the library ticket. If abroad, then they send you the ticket number online. It's all explained on the website. It's very addictive.

You can also do it through Cornwall public libraries if you are a member, and others as well, but this is available to anyone online where ever they are.

Tom
Title: Re: LIDDELL of Bodmin
Post by: bcharles4 on Sunday 11 October 09 15:37 BST (UK)
Tom

Thanks very much for all the info and I will certainly try and get onto the database.  I live in Oxfordshire so there should be several options.  I also sometimes go to Colindale to consult their vast library of newspapers.

James Liddell senior was born around 1765 and came to Bodmin in the late 1780s to set up as a stationer, bookseller and printer.  He was certainly there by 1790, and later information speaks of 1787.  The only reference I had found to Lancashire (before your message) was in his son's obituary  100 years later.

Best wishes
Barrie
Title: Re: LIDDELL of Bodmin
Post by: Tom Piper on Sunday 11 October 09 17:35 BST (UK)
Barrie,

The same database shows that James Liddell was in Bodmin in 1809, as an agent for Fire Insurance. A bit later there is mention of a WH Liddell, a cadet in RN, son of Lt James Liddell, receiving an award. Any connections? This was in 1847.

Tom
Title: Re: LIDDELL of Bodmin
Post by: bcharles4 on Sunday 11 October 09 18:09 BST (UK)
Tom

WH is probably William Henry Liddell, born 1833 and son of James junior, who rose to be a Captain.  If you want the whole Liddell dynasty in Bodmin up to 1900, I have it courtesy of Denis Mollison of this website.

Barrie
Title: Re: LIDDELL of Bodmin
Post by: bcharles4 on Monday 12 October 09 10:26 BST (UK)
Tom

I've now joined Lancashire Libraries (they give you a temporary number online) and looked at the Gale database.  It's a very useful resource.

One question: for the Manchester Times of 24 Aug 1889 you said that they 'took the trouble both to report it and give an obituary'.  I could only find the death notice that you quoted originally.  Is there an obituary elsewhere?

Best wishes
Barrie
Title: Re: LIDDELL of Bodmin
Post by: Tom Piper on Monday 12 October 09 13:25 BST (UK)
Barrie,
Yes now you will have some fun: Sorry to mislead you, not an obit, but a bit more about his career in Hampshire Telegraph, just put in a search for James Liddell and all papers and year 1889 and see what happens.

Tom
Title: Re: LIDDELL of Bodmin
Post by: dmollison on Thursday 12 November 09 19:26 GMT (UK)
Just seen this thread ..

I'm descended from William Liddell (1802-54), who emigrated to Madras in 1833 in the "Wellington" captained by his older brother James.

I append a note giving the 10 children and 39 grandchildren of James Liddell (ca. 1764/5 - 1839) and Mary Martyn (1770-1845).
[Mary also came from a huge family - her children were among about 160 fourth generation descendants of Thomas Martyn  & Gertrude Turnavine who married in 1696 in St Columb Minor - see Martyn tree thread on this site.]
I also have details on most of the next couple of generations, including where they were at the 1841-1901 censuses, and extensive notes on some of the more interesting ones, including the second son James (1798-1889)  [His naval career, 1812-25, merchant navy career  1825 - ca. 1845, etc etc - some of his ship logs survive, and I've asked if I can see at least a sample ...].

One easy aspect of research is that virtually all mentions of Liddell in Cornwall up to 1901 refer to this family.

The difficult aspect is where the first James Liddell came from, so I'll be very interested if any of you come up with anything concrete, in Lancashire or elsewhere.  [Another possibility is central Scotland, where there are several Liddells related to papermaking or bookselling, but I've found nothing definite so far.]

The earliest claim for him in Cornwall is in  Allnutt (1901), `Notes on the introduction of printing presses into the smaller ..'
1787 list starts with:
BODMIN. James Liddell [His son, Capt. James Liddell]
- presumably meaning the latter (1798-1889) was his source.

More reliable are adverts from 1790 onwards showing he was active as a bookseller in Bodmin.  He was elected a town councillor in 1805.

Look forward to hearing any more you can provide.

Best wishes

Denis


----------------------------------------------------------------
Here follow JL & MM and their children and grandchildren.
---
You can also find them as part of my family tree on
http://www.mollison.org/tree/fam/Liddell.html
---
James Liddell
Printer, stationer and seedsman, Bodmin, from ca. 1790
  b. ca. 1765, , parents ? (age at death given in newspaper as 74)
  d. 13 Jul 1839 Bodmin
  m. 31 Mar 1793 St Columb Minor, Mary Martyn (16 Apr 1770 - 21 Jun 1845)
   children:
     Margaret Martyn Liddell (4 May 1794 - 18 Dec 1875)
     John Liddell (20 Mar 1796 - 5 Apr 1861)
     James Liddell (ca. 1798 - 15 Aug 1889)
     Silas Hiscutt Liddell (6 Jan 1800 - 16 Apr 1872)
     William Liddell (24 Mar 1802 - 22 June 1854)
     Thomas Liddell (10 Jan 1804 - 22 Mar 1885)
     Elias Hiscutt Liddell (27 Jan 1807 - Jul 1863)
     Henry Liddell (8 Apr 1808 - 15 Apr 1884)
     Mary Liddell (24 May 1810 - ca. Nov 1870)
     Gertrude Liddell (28 Jan 1813 - )

- message too long, will post grandchildren next -
Title: Re: LIDDELL of Bodmin
Post by: dmollison on Thursday 12 November 09 19:29 GMT (UK)
- message continued - the next generation -

Margaret Martyn Liddell
Printer and bookseller stationer (1851)
  c. 4 May 1794, Bodmin, parents James Liddell and Mary Martyn
  d. 18 Dec 1875,

John Liddell
Printer and bookseller stationer etc
  c. 20 Mar 1796 Bodmin, parents James Liddell and Mary Martyn
  d. 5 Apr 1861,
  m. 11 Apr 1825 Bodmin, Mary Stone Harvey (30 May 1800 - ca. Feb 1870)
   children:
     Edward Trescott Liddell (ca. 1828 - ca. Nov 1900)
     m. ca. Aug 1881 London, Jessie Dean (ca 1845 - after 1900)
- note - ME also gives  Eleanor Harvey Liddell (1833 - ), but this looks like
    a misreading of the 1841 census

James Liddell
Commander, RN; JP for Bodmin
  b. 17 Jan 1798, Bodmin, parents James Liddell and Mary Martyn
  d. 15 Aug 1889, Bodmin
  m. 14 Aug 1827, St Columb Minor Gertrude Symons
   children:
     James Liddell (21 May 1829 - 19 Jun 1849) - Lt, RE
     John Worthy Liddell (11 Feb 1831 - 5 Aug 1864) - engineer - d. Venezuela
     William Henry Liddell (30 Apr 1833 - ca. May 1880) Capt, RN
     m. ca. Nov 1864 Exeter, Catherine Rebecca Kingdon (ca. 1832-1914); 3 children
     Gustavus Evans Liddell (28 Apr 1835 - ca. Aug 1894) - schoolmaster
     m. ca. May 1882, Plympton, Mary Elizabeth Kingdon (1830-1893)
     Anna Gertrude Liddell (9 Nov 1837 - ca. May 1892)

Silas Hiscutt Liddell
Printer and bookseller stationer etc (1851)
  c. 6 Jan 1800, Bodmin, parents James Liddell and Mary Martyn
  d. 16 Apr 1872, Bodmin
  m. 20 Jun 1832, Bodmin Eleanor Oliver (6 Oct 1801 - ca. Feb 1867)
   children:
     Mary Helen Liddell (1 Oct 1833 - ca. Aug 1872)
     m. 6 Oct 1859 Bodmin, George Bray (ca. 1831 - ); 3 children
     Henry Liddell (3 Sep 1834 - ca. Nov 1897) - printer, Bodmin
     m 15 Feb 1859 Bodmin, Sarah Harvey (1836 - 1921); 13 children
     Silas Hiscutt Liddell (17 Aug 1835 - Mar 1878) - Lt, RN
     m Sep 1859 Stoke Damerel, Maria Jane Wallis (1835-1923); 4 children
     John Liddell (24 Nov 1837 - ) - printer, Bodmin
     m ca. May 1877, Mary May; 5 children
     Eleanor Liddell (14 May 1839 - ca. Nov 1900) - bookseller and stationer, Bodmin
     Elizabeth Liddell (20 Nov 1840 - after 1901)
     Jane Liddell (20 Sep 1842 - ?1889)
     Harriet Gertrude Liddell (2 Jul 1844 - ca. Feb 1911) - stationer
     m 13 Apr 1874 Bodmin, William Solomon Tonkin,- ironmonger; 3 children
     Charles Liddell (20 Feb 1846 - )- manager of printing works, India (1881)
     m ca. 1875 Emma - (ca. 1855-); 2 children
     Agnes Shepheard Liddell (22 Mar 1848 - ca. May 1922) - schoolmistress
     m 24 Jul 1873, William Henry (1848-1878) - accountant; 2 children

William Liddell
Surgeon, Coroner of Madras 1841-1854
  c. 24 Mar 1802 Bodmin, parents James Liddell and Mary Martyn
  d. 22 June 1854 Madras
  m. 1 Sep 1827 Chelsea, Susanna Sophia Austin (1804-1853)
   children:
     Susan Gertrude Liddell (29 Nov 1828 - ca. Dec 1911)
    m 20 Apr 1847 Madras, George Walker (1818-1904) East India merchant; 11 children
     Mary Helen Liddell (11 May 1830 - )
     Emily Darke Liddell (12 Jan 1832 - ca. May 1908)
    m ca. 1855, Alfred John Byard (1822-1880) - EI merchant; 6 children
     Annie Ashton Liddell (17 Dec 1833 - )
     William Byam Liddell (10 Sep 1835 - ca. Nov 1901) - EI merchant
    m 24 March 1863 Madras, Jane Maclure (1840- ); 3 children
     James Martyn Liddell (10 Aug 1837 - 1848)
     John Henry Liddell (26 May 1839 - )

Thomas Liddell
Farmer, Treglines, 1841 and 1881
  c. 10 Jan 1804, Bodmin, parents James Liddell and Mary Martyn
  d. 22 Mar 1885, Bodmin
  m1. 27 Oct 1828, Bodmin Amy Vercoe (1807-1872)
   children:
     Thomas Liddell (1 Sep 1829 - ?1888) - farm bailiff
     Margaret Mary Liddell (4 Dec 1831 - 12 Aug 1899)
     m. 30 Sep 1856 St Minver, Samuel Symons (1827-1917) - farmer, Pentire; 3 children
     Henry Liddell (22 Jun 1833 - after 1901) - railway manager
     m. ca. Feb 1855 Camberwell, Jane Grace Whetter (1827-1913); 5 children
     Ellen Liddell (ca. 1835 - ca. Aug 1865)
     m. ca. Nov 1864 Bodmin, Benjamin Hawken - farmer; 1 child
  m2. ca. Nov 1873 Marylebone, Harriet Walker

Elias Hiscutt Liddell
Merchant, Bodmin
  c. 27 Jan 1807, Bodmin, parents James Liddell and Mary Martyn
  d. Jul 1863, Bodmin
  m. ca. May 1843, Stoke Damerel Louisa Randall
   children:
     George Liddell (29 Aug 1844 - )
     m. ca. Aug 1871 Plymouth, Mary Lewin (1846- )

Henry Liddell
Deputy Inspector Of Hospitals R N
  c. 8 Apr 1808, Bodmin, parents James Liddell and Mary Martyn
  d. 15 Apr 1884, Plympton St M
  m. ca. Nov 1843 Stoke Damerel, Agnes Shepheard
   children:
     Henry John Shepheard Liddell (20 Nov 1854 - ca. Nov 1908)
     m1. ca. May 1878 Falmouth, Jessie Carne (1859-1890); 2 children
     m2. ca. May 1892, Kingston, Emily Mary Daniell (ca. 1861- )

Mary Liddell
Schoolmistress, 1841
  c. 24 May 1810 Bodmin, parents James Liddell and Mary Martyn
  d. ca. Nov 1870, Chelsea
  m. 29 Dec 1842 Bodmin, Elias Octavius Symons - architect (cousin, his 2nd marriage)
   children:
     James Symons (ca. Aug 1845 - ca. Aug 1846)
     Charles Symons (ca. Feb 1847 - )
     Mary Symons (ca. Nov 1848 - ?ca. Feb 1849)
Title: Re: LIDDELL of Bodmin
Post by: dmollison on Thursday 12 November 09 19:30 GMT (UK)

- and finally -

Gertrude Liddell
to Canada 1851/2 with family (5 children b. Cornwall, 2 Canada)
  c. 28 Jan 1813, Bodmin, parents James Liddell and Mary Martyn
  m. 9 Jan 1837 Bodmin, John Parkin Vercoe (his 2nd marriage)
   children:
    Henry Liddell Vercoe (Oct 1840 - 1897), Physician; 4 children
    m. ca. 1868, P A -
    Gertrude Vercoe (ca. Nov 1843 - )
    m. ca. 1875, Thomas Roberts - in c1880, no ch.
    John Vercoe (16 Oct 1845 - 8 Mar 1897)
    m. 21 Aug 1872 St Thomas, Emily Elizabeth Jackson
    James Vercoe (ca. Aug 1847 - )
    Mary Liddell Vercoe (ca. May 1850 - )
    m. ca. 1875, Samuel Hutchins (ca. 1848- ); 3 children (in c1880)
    Margaret Liddell Vercoe (2 Oct 1852 - 2 Jun 1885); ?2 children
    m. 20 Mar 1872 Sparta, Edward Byron Haight
    Charlotte D Vercoe (ca. 1855 - ); in c1880 with bro. HL, single,
Title: Re: LIDDELL of Bodmin
Post by: Blencathra on Tuesday 03 August 10 17:14 BST (UK)
Hi, I wonder if anyone has turned up a connection between the Liddells and Berry Cottage 3 Berry lane?
Title: Re: LIDDELL of Bodmin
Post by: Little_Family on Wednesday 01 September 10 18:16 BST (UK)
Hi,
My wife is descended from the James Liddell//Mary Martyn line.

We've just been down to St Columb and Bodmin with the Oz/NZ 2nd cousins who are from the same line.

I made a note of some Liddell headstones and plaques in St Petroc's, Bodmin. I don't think they've been recorded on this thread, but if they have my apologies.


William Liddell Tonkin wall plaque
REMEMBER BEFORE GOD
WILLIAM LIDDELL TONKIN
1875 – 1934
cross bearer in this church for 40 years
his dearly loved wife
LISSIE AMELIA TONKIN
1879 – 1927
and his son’s beloved wife
HILDA MAY TONKIN
1899 - 1967


James Liddell wall plaque
To the memory of
James Liddell
First Lieutenant of Royal Engineers
(and eldest son of Lieut Liddell RN of this town).
who was lost with nearly all his company of sappers
on Prince Edward Island in the South Seas
June 19th 1849, aged 20
This highly gifted youth, regardless of self
amidst the awful wreck, closed his brief and most
promising career in a noble effort to save
a perishing lady.


I've taken pictures of these plaques, the inside and outside of the church and of Liddells house next door. They are too large to attach so if you'd like a copy, drop me a line.

I'm going to drop Denis a note with details of my wife's line so that it can be added to the Liddell/Martyn web pages - once it's verified!

Tim
Title: Re: LIDDELL of Bodmin
Post by: dmollison on Wednesday 01 September 10 18:28 BST (UK)

Thanks - I hadn't seen these.  I'm intrigued by the reference on the memorial to Lt James Liddell RE to "Prince Edward Island in the South Seas".  I'd assumed previously that he'd been wrecked off the PEI in Canada.  Does it possibly mean the sub-Antarctic islands south of South Africa?  If so, what was his ship doing there?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince_Edward_Islands

Incidentally, I've found quite a lot on his father James Liddell (1798-1889)'s career, in both royal and merchant navies, if anyone's interested.

Denis
Title: Re: LIDDELL of Bodmin
Post by: dmollison on Wednesday 01 September 10 19:31 BST (UK)

Yes, it was the sub-antarctic Prince Edward Island! see:

http://academic.sun.ac.za/botzoo/space/climate/marionHistory.htm

- On the 19th of June 1849 the most tragic incident in the history of the islands' occured. The Richard Dart, an emigrant ship from Britain, ran aground on Prince edward Island while following a non-stop "composite-sailing" passage from the Thames to New Zealand. A total of 53 of the ship's 63 passengers were lost. Of the fifty three, five women, 10 children and 37 men were drowned during the wreck an one, William Goldsmith, died two months later. After a wait of 72 days the remaining survivors were rescued. This incident is not only the largest known loss of life at either of the Prince Edward Islands but it is also the only known deaths of women and children.

Denis
Title: Re: LIDDELL of Bodmin
Post by: Little_Family on Wednesday 01 September 10 19:46 BST (UK)
Denis,
Glad it was useful.
Tim
Title: Re: LIDDELL of Bodmin
Post by: marywillis on Friday 17 September 10 00:25 BST (UK)
I too am related to the Liddell and Martyn family from Bodmin, through the India connections please can you post me a copy of the inscriptions etc. I understand there is an obelisk in the churchyard did you find this monument?
(*) Mary Willis

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Title: Re: LIDDELL of Bodmin
Post by: Little_Family on Friday 17 September 10 08:02 BST (UK)
Mary,
I assume you're talking about St Petroc's in Bodmin? I didn't see the obelisk, but maybe I was too busy looking for headstones - most of which were leaning against the wall at the side of the graveyard.
Send me a message telling me which of the inscriptions you'd like a copy of.

My wife's family come down the Charles Liddell (1846 to 1901) line. He married Emma Jane Anderson BLUETT at Lahore in 1871. I've got some info about that line, but not sure how to get more details of events that took place in India.

Tim
Title: Re: LIDDELL of Bodmin
Post by: Tom Piper on Friday 17 September 10 13:53 BST (UK)
Tim,

Have you tried rootschat resources:

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?action=printpage;topic=30580.0

Tom
Title: Re: LIDDELL of Bodmin
Post by: Little_Family on Friday 17 September 10 15:14 BST (UK)
Tom,
No. I haven't tried that. Will do.
Thanks
Tim
Title: Re: LIDDELL of Bodmin
Post by: marywillis on Monday 20 September 10 16:39 BST (UK)
I read in an old guide book about the obelisk, please could you send me, when convenient, any photos that you have of St Petroc's re Liddell family. I have done some research into the family of Charles and Emma and have counted nine children. My mother who is now 82 recalls vividly her uncles Charles jr and Ralph and her auntie Gertie during visits to her aunt's London home. Ralph's daughter Dianna was a playmate of hers and she often wonders if she is still living. I am very much intrigued which family member your wife is related to,
Mary
Title: Re: LIDDELL of Bodmin
Post by: MichelleIlewin on Friday 02 January 15 04:44 GMT (UK)
After looking for a distant family member I returned to Rootschat after a long spell and found some good info on George Liddell b 29 Aug 1844 here, thanks for your postings folks. My Relation is the Mary Lewin who married George Liddell in Plymouth in 23 Aug 1871. She was the daughter of William Lewin of "Cornish and Lewin Wholesale Chemists and Druggists" of St Andrew, Plymouth. He had married a daughter of a Naval Surgeon. If anyone is interested in her lines I can help.
Best wishes
Michelle.
Title: Re: LIDDELL of Bodmin
Post by: jebertram on Wednesday 08 April 15 21:05 BST (UK)
Dear descendants of the Liddells, I have unearthed a James Liddell born on 29th September 1765 in Stepney, via the parish records collated by Find My Past ... what do you reckon?  A wild card?  He was born to James Liddell, a carpenter and Susannah (nee Phillips).  I guess it's no stranger to move from London to Bodmin than it is to move from Lancaster! 
My great-grandmother was Lillian Liddell, grand daughter to Silas Hiscutt ...

Title: Re: LIDDELL of Bodmin
Post by: dmollison on Wednesday 08 April 15 21:30 BST (UK)
The James Liddell born in Stepney on 29? Sept 1765 doesn't seem very likely to be our JL.
[I say 29? because I have a note of 28 Sept, worked out from the christening record giving his age as 15 days at christening on 13 October.]

That would make him 73 at death on 13 July 1839, not 74 as given in the West Briton on 19 July 1839 (and his family are generally accurate in giving their ages in e.g. censuses).
His father being a carpenter, and mother unable to write her name at marriage (31 Aug 1760   St Botolph Algate, London) is of course possible, but isn't a likely background for a stationer and printer.
Thirdly, the biography of his son James, which is generally accurate, refers to his parents as being from Lancashire; now that is certainly wrong as regards his mother, Mary Martyn of St Columb Minor, but seems an unlikely mistake if he came from London.  My guess is it might be a mistake for Lanarkshire, a likely area for Liddells, whereas I can't find any Liddells from 18th C Lancashire.
Title: Re: LIDDELL of Bodmin
Post by: MichelleIlewin on Saturday 19 September 15 14:51 BST (UK)
Hi there folks very interesting reading this on the Liddell's of Bodmin. My relation here is via Mary Lewin who married George Liddell born 1844 to Elias Hiscutt Liddell and Louisa Liddell nee Randolf.
If I am correct George died about 1910-1914 as he, his widow Mary, and her sisters are mentioned in shares in a railroad company (Great Western Railroad) and living in Switzerland. I would be interested in hearing from folks interested in this line too.
Title: Re: LIDDELL of Bodmin
Post by: dmollison on Sunday 20 September 15 00:31 BST (UK)
Hi, Michelle

The deaths of George, Mary and two of her sisters can all be found n the National Probate Calendar for England & Wales:

LIDDELL George of 19 Wood Vale Lordship-lane Surrey died 19 February 1914 Probate London 24 March to Mary Liddell widow and Sophia Constance Fisher Lewin spinster. Effects £ 2088 14s. 10d.

George died at the same address where he was living in the 1911 census:
that census describes him as Paymaster-in-chief, RN, retired.

Sophia Constance Fisher Lewin d 7 Mar 1927, of Villa Violetta Territet Switzerland
Probate to Annie Blanche Lewin spinster. Effects £ 1109 3s. 4d. in England

ABL d 29 Mar 1942 aged 78 in Cornwall - "of Trevone & Montreux, Switzerland".
Sophia CF Lewin and Blanche L Lewin can be found with Mary and their parents in the 1871 census. They were born in 1859 and 1863  resp., so a lot younger than Mary.

Mary Liddell widow d 2 Dec 1929, of Villa Violetta etc. Probate to Julia Ada Olver spinster and Eliza Mapson Wintringham (wife of John Fildes Wintringham).  Effects £ 2761 11s. 5d.  Resworn £ 3056 4s. 4d.

I'll leave you to find out who Julia Ada Olver & Eliza Mapson Wintringham were!
Title: Re: LIDDELL of Bodmin
Post by: MichelleIlewin on Sunday 20 September 15 16:19 BST (UK)
Hi dmollison,
thanks for the reply and the extra data on Mary Liddell, Sophia C. F. Lewin, and Annie Blanche Lewin, it is very much appreciated. Mary Sophia and Annie are my great grandfathers sisters. There were 11 children in the family.
Julia Ada Olver spinster was born in Plymouth Devon (as were the 3 sisters named above).
Eliza Mapson Wintringham (wife of John Fildes Wintringham). has an interesting family and whom were involved in the Spanish War, with correspondence going back and forward.
http://www.kingscollections.org/catalogues/lhcma/collection/w/wi95-001/wi95-01

I will look more in to these later
Michelle
Title: Re: LIDDELL of Bodmin
Post by: newsue92 on Saturday 19 March 16 17:53 GMT (UK)
Some of you have asked for a photo of the obelisk, the churchyard has been cleared so here it is, not very clear, but I can take more (I live close by) but does anyone know, why William Henry Liddell Captain RN is on here too, out of all the relations? Or did Williams family erect this, adding the grandparents?
Title: Re: LIDDELL of Bodmin
Post by: newsue92 on Saturday 19 March 16 17:58 GMT (UK)
Another one, oops look the same!
Title: Re: LIDDELL of Bodmin
Post by: dmollison on Saturday 19 March 16 18:24 GMT (UK)
The obelisk photo is tantalising - I just can't read the top part.  Can you provide a transcription?

Thanks, Denis
Title: Re: LIDDELL of Bodmin
Post by: newsue92 on Saturday 19 March 16 18:46 GMT (UK)
It's very faded, it seems to say William Henry Liddell Captain RN born 30th april 1833 died probably 1880, but will look tomorrow in the daylight. He is reported as dying suddenly in the royal Cornwall gazette, do you know how or why? I cant see his name in the burial records for 1880 in Bodmin.
Title: Re: LIDDELL of Bodmin
Post by: newsue92 on Saturday 19 March 16 21:18 GMT (UK)
You may also now there is an exhibit to James Liddell 1798-1889 in Bodmin Museum and page about the family in Bill Johnsons book Life in Victorian Bodmin
Title: Re: LIDDELL of Bodmin
Post by: dmollison on Sunday 20 March 16 00:27 GMT (UK)
William Henry Liddell was Captain of the troopship HMS Tamar from 22 April 1878.

I've found several mentions of his service in Tamar in the Zulu war of 1879, including rescuing the crew of a hired transport, the Clyde, in False Bay, 60 miles SE of Simon's Bay, in April 1879.
heand the ship were in the W Indies (Bermuda 28 Oct, Barbados 29 Dec) in late 1879.

Then I have a puzzling reference to being in Limassol, Cyprus, on 5 Dec 1880
(from the Thames Star, Volume XII, Issue 3784, 12 February 1881, Page 1)
- puzzling because he seems to have died 6 months earlier, with death cert. as follows -
Deaths Jun 1880
Liddell    William Henry    47    Portsea    2b   315
- which suggests perhaps he died at sea or on arrival in Portsmouth, but in any case 6 months before the Limassol reference.

I guess either checking the death certificate or Naval records would clear that up.

Why he's added to his grandparents' obelisk I don't know.

Thanks also for the info on the Bodmin Museum exhibit - it reminds me I have lots of info on James Liddell (1798-1889) and his ship the Wellington that I've been meaning to pass on to them.
Title: Re: LIDDELL of Bodmin
Post by: dmollison on Sunday 20 March 16 12:11 GMT (UK)
PS  Have found details of the death of William Henry Liddell.  He was at home in Portsea, having stood down from command of the Tamar about 2 weeks previously.  He was found dead from a fall outside his house early on the morning of 7 June 1880.  The coroner's court the following day found that death was from a fall, `but that there was not sufficient evidence to show how that fall was produced'.  He had been complaining of headaches and gout, and may have been `somewhat depressed'.
This is from the full coverage in the Hampshire Telegraph and Sussex Chronicle, and summary in the Pall Mall Gazette, both 9 Jun 1880. Quite a few other papers also covered the case.

An unlucky family: his oldest brother James (Lt, RE, 1829-49) died in a spectacular shipwreck in the south Atlantic, the next, John Worthy Liddell (engineer, 1831-64) died in  Venezuela aged 33; his youngest brother and sister didn't marry, nor did his own 3 children.
Title: Re: LIDDELL of Bodmin
Post by: newsue92 on Sunday 20 March 16 14:34 GMT (UK)
crikey! On close examination there is engraving on 2 other sides, but very hard to read, the attached is I think James Jr, as I can make out South Seas.
Title: Re: LIDDELL of Bodmin
Post by: newsue92 on Sunday 20 March 16 14:36 GMT (UK)
This Captain william, as close as could get without falling off the edge. It is perched on a corner
Title: Re: LIDDELL of Bodmin
Post by: newsue92 on Sunday 20 March 16 14:55 GMT (UK)
according to find a grave, this is what one side is about Birth:    1829
Death:    Jun. 19, 1849

eldest son of Lieut. Liddell RN of the town who was lost with nearly all his Company of Sappers on Prince Edwards' Island in the South Seas / This highly gifted youth, regardless of self amidst? the awful wreck, closed his brief and most promising career in a futile effort to save a perishing lady.
Title: Re: LIDDELL of Bodmin
Post by: newsue92 on Sunday 20 March 16 15:08 GMT (UK)
I think this must be John Worthy Liddell, though once again, not clear. Perhaps, as these chaps died abroad, that is why they are on the memorial
Title: Re: LIDDELL of Bodmin
Post by: dmollison on Sunday 20 March 16 15:32 GMT (UK)
Ref. James d 1849 - I have a note of that inscription being on a wall plaque in st Petroc's, Bodmin, rather than outside on an obelisk.  Is that right?

Denis
Title: Re: LIDDELL of Bodmin
Post by: newsue92 on Sunday 20 March 16 16:48 GMT (UK)
Church is only open between easter and october except for services, so tricky to look at the mo, but this is definitely outside. Maybe both, certainly is the case with another Bodmin family the Michells, and a notable local doctor is inside, while his wifes stone is out! I used to live in part of the Castle St House the Liddells lived in.
Title: Re: LIDDELL of Bodmin
Post by: Chris Riddle on Sunday 16 December 18 22:12 GMT (UK)
James Liddell of Bodmin was printer and then ‘seedsman’ in the 1790s to the Cornwall Agricultural Society later to become the Royal Cornwall Agricultural Association which today still exists and organises the Royal Cornwall Show.  He seems to have been a significant merchant dealing in a wide range of goods and this included supplying certified seeds on behalf of the Society to help farmers improve their crops.
Title: Re: LIDDELL of Bodmin
Post by: dmollison on Sunday 16 December 18 22:33 GMT (UK)
One at least of James Liddell's sons - my ggggf William Liddell (1802-54) continued the interest in plants and seeds; shortly after he emigrated to Madras (1833) he became Secretary (1835-38) of the newly founded Agricultural and Horticultural Society of Madras.  References I've found online include correspondence ordering vegetable seeds and fruit or flower trees. He also corresponded with a parliamentary committee in London about the possibility of growing tea in the area (I don't think that came to anything).
 
Title: Re: LIDDELL of Bodmin
Post by: Chris R on Monday 17 December 18 11:08 GMT (UK)
That is fascinating!  Many thanks.