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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Kincardineshire => Topic started by: Beediebhoy on Friday 04 September 09 20:45 BST (UK)
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Just started doing our family tree and I am looking for any descendants of Lifeboat man James McBay who lost his life on the 21st December 1920. He was the Son of John Mearns McBay and Christina Alexander.
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hi Beediebhoy
welcome to rootschat :)
don't know if you have seen this tree -
http://worldconnect.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=coull&id=I3931
ev
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Hi
James Mearns McBay is my 3c2r,he had no direct decendants as both his children died when they were young 1910 and 1918.Jane McBay,wife (nee Mowatt) died 1965 Gourdon.
There was a dediction ceremony for RNLI boatmen who lost their lives and James was listed,I have photos of the ceremony which was held on 3 Sept.2009 at the RNLI headquarters Poole,Dorset if you are interested.
I look forward to hearing from you,
Regards
Mike
Just started doing our family tree and I am looking for any descendants of Lifeboat man James McBay who lost his life on the 21st December 1920. He was the Son of John Mearns McBay and Christina Alexander.
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Sorry if this is a bit vague! I sent this to my cousin last year when I was looking up her McBay/Milne /Cargill connections in gourdon and Johnshaven.
John Mearns McBay m Helen Blues 24.10.1902
John's parents - john Mearns McBay & Christina Alexander
Helen's parents - Thomas blues & Jane Mackie.
Let me know if this is of interest to you, and I'll sort through my notes. It was confusing at teh time, as there were two John Mearns McBays.
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Hi,
All the names you mention are my maternal ancestors :) from Kincardineshire,I go back to my 6x Grt.Grandfather in Findochty,Banff.
I would be very interested in anything you have on the McBay/Bey line.
There are three JOHN MEARNS MCBAY and I am happy to exchange information with anyone who has an interest in the MCBAY/BEY'S.
I look forward to hearing from you.
Regards
Mike
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Hi Mike.
James Mearns McBay was my great uncle and I have been interested in the memorial on which he was mentioned on in Dorset. My uncle who was named after him, James McBay Ritchie sadly passed away last year as did his niece my mum Christina Ritchie who lived all her life in Johnshaven. Their is another great niece as well as myself and 2 great nephews who still stay in Johnshaven. I have got as far back in the McBay/McBey line as 1726 to Alexender McBey who married Janet Anderson at Rathven Banff. I would be delighted to hear and share information with you and anyone interested in the McBay/McBey family tree.
Regards
Jackie
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Sorry if this is a bit vague! I sent this to my cousin last year when I was looking up her McBay/Milne /Cargill connections in gourdon and Johnshaven.
John Mearns McBay m Helen Blues 24.10.1902
John's parents - john Mearns McBay & Christina Alexander
Helen's parents - Thomas blues & Jane Mackie.
Let me know if this is of interest to you, and I'll sort through my notes. It was confusing at teh time, as there were two John Mearns McBays.
Hi I would be very interested in your findings as this was a brother of James Mearns McBay.
Thanks
Jackie
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Hi Jackie,
Have I answered your post dtd.22 Sept? or have I had another senior moment. The names you mention are all my ancestors and I have photos of the memorial dedication for James.
I have had builders in and been attending hospital and I have lost track of where I am with this post,
I look forward to hearing from you again!!!
Regards
Mike
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Hi I noticed your posting and wondered if there is a connection perhaps between our families? My grandfather was named James McBay Blacklaws, and was born in Benholm in c1920. He married a woman from Fern, Angus in 1941 in Benholm her name was Dorothy Clyne Yeats. My grandfather passed away in 1992, if you can shed any light on this i'd be grateful if you got back to me thanks very much
Louisa x
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Hi Louisa,
I would say that it is 99% certain that we have a connection,the village of Johnshaven in the Parish of Benholm,Kincardine and the village of Miltonhaven in the Parish of St.Cyrus is where the MCBAY/BEY line established itself after migrating down (we believe) from Banffshire.
If you can give me any information on your grandfather's parents I should be able to confirm our connection as my records do not cover many of the families after the first world war,except my own line to the present day.
I look forward to hearing from you.
Regards
Mike
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I am heading up to Brechin next weekend to see my father, so hopefully he will be able to shed some light on more family names.. hopefully I should return armed with loads of enlightening information.. will post names etc as soon as I get back.. hopefully I can find out something that will be of benefit to us both. I am struggling to get my grandfathers birth lines at present, but my father will be able to help me there. will keep you posted and thanks for getting back to me
Louisa x
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Hello, I am a very new member on this site, and reading it is great! My mother was Elizabeth Helen Mc Bay. the daughter of Edward Scales McBay, who was the son of Charles McBay and Elsie Jarvis.My mother's mother was Jane Bell Wood Who died in the 1920,s I believe.As a very young merchant seaman in the early 60's I remember visiting Harry Mc Bay in Auburn,Sydney, Australia. He had extensive family ties around Woolongong, I believe.
A very interesting person to contact about the family tree, is an author who lives in Johnshaven, with whom I share a maternal gg grandmother. Her name is Aileen Townsend, and I reckon she knows more about the family than anybody I know! Hope to hear from any kin! Regards, Johnerloon
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Hi Johnerloon,
Elizabeth Helen McBay b.1921,d.1997, is my 4c1removed, I believe she married a William Murray Wilkie and they may have had 6 children,I do not have a country.
Our common ancestor will be Alexander Mcbay/Christian Ritchie (my 4xGrt.Grandparents) My line is from their son Thomas who marr.Martha Davidson 1835 Garvoc,St.Cyrus,3xGGparents,son John who marr. Catherine McKenzie 1857 Sunderland,Durham,UK,2xGGparents, son John(William) who marr. ANN JANE (Elizabeth) FINCH,Sunderland 1880, their daughter MARTHA (grandmother) and Alexander WYLLIE (Grandfather) marr. (unknown) had 4 children in Newcastle,Northumberland.
I would like to share information with you.
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Hullo Fogeyman, You are correct about my mother, and father, William Murray Wilkie, wh was from Aberdeen. My maternal Grandad, Edward Scales Mc Bay, had for brothers. James, who lived in Dunoon, Alexander, who was a ganger on the Forth Bridge and lived in Dalmeny, Tom, who lived in Greenock and William, who had a fishmongers Buisness in Aberdeen There was also a sister Elizabeth Jane, who was married to Jimmy Simpson a lighthouse keeper. I am the oldest son of Elizabeth and William's six offspring. I do believe there are more McBays in Canada and Australia than there are in U.K! Cheers, Johnnerloon
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Johnerloon,
I have sent you a private mail so you can contact me direct.
I am interested in the Harry McBay you mentioned as I have not come across that name before.
You say that Edward had four brothers but there were another two who died as infants I believe.
I look forward to hearing from you.
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Foggyman, tks for the mail. Harry Mc Bay, who emigrated to Aus early 1900,s was a brother to a David Mc Bay, who left U.K. at the same time as Harry. I believe they were cousins of my grandfather, Edward Scales McBay, David was known by the name "Snowy". Harry was married to a lady called "Nan" who hailed from Kirkintilloch, originally, I believe. They lived at 34, Killeen Street, Auburn, Clyde, Sydney, and I visited them on at least 3 occassions, between 1960 and 1962, when I was a deck apprentice with the P'O-Orient line, carrying "£10 Pomms" to Aus.Harry must have been in his 70,s then, I know he made a last visit to Johnshaven, when I cannot tell,As by that time I was serving abroad in the Army. I think he died soon after returning home to Aus.My mother called him "Uncle Harry".
U are correct about there being 2 other brothers to my grandfather, both dying in infancy, I believe they were Charles and David, but I will check the gravestone in johnshaven when I am there at the weekend, and send u details of names,dates etc, Hope this is of some help
Cheers for now, Johnerloon
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Hi Johnerloon and Foggyman,
I rang my dad (John McBay) son of John David McBay and Anetta Rooke, Gson of John McBay and Edith Jane Blyth, to ask him about "Uncle Harry" as I remembered stories being told by my Grandparents and this is how Dad clarified your missing Harry McBay.
Dad remembers visiting his Uncle Harry out at Auburn in Sydney but can't remember the name of his Aunt, they had a son Murray who Dad believes still lives in Sydney and a daughter Vera. Harry's brother David has a son David who was known as "Young David" who served on HMAS Australia when hit by a kamakaze pilot during WWII and later worked in the Navy dockyard after retiring. Dad thinks he had three daughters and a son. David also had daughters Jeanette, lived in St. Mary's; Margaret; June who lived in Bega NSW and son Rodney who married Marge Whittey and lived in Auburn with their two sons.
Mary McKenzie was Harry & David's sister, her daughter Jenny Dunn lived in the same street as Harry in Auburn (I met Jenny many times at my grandparents home in Blacktown)
Harry & David's other brother, John McBay married Edith Blyth and had George Douglas, John David, Ann Douglas, Henry Sheret and Walter Ernest.
Hope that helps, but if you need any more info please contact me.
Cheers
Wendy :)
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Hi Wendy,
Many thanks for the information.
Would "HARRY" be Henry Sheret MCBAY b.1 Nov 1887 Johnshaven, who marr. Annie MURRAY c1917 Australia.
Henry d.28 Jul 1968 Australia? He retired in 1959 and sailed to Australia with his wife on 18 Aug 1959 departing from London onboard ship "Stratheden" bound for Sydney. Annie b.23 Nov 1892,d.1975 Australia?
I have details of 2 children with a possible third child? as follows:- David Alexander MCBAY b.1918 Australia.
Murray Douglas MCBAY b.? Australia
Third ??? is this the Vera you mentioned??
So Wendy that would make you my 5C1R* according to my FH program. Our common ancestor will be Alexander McBay b.1769 and Christian Ritchie b.1783 of Miltonhaven and Johnshaven. There is a lot more available if you are interested.
I look forward to hearing from you.
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Anyone who has posted to this topic should try and get a copy of LEOPARD, the Magazine for North-East Scotland -- issue February 2011
LEOPARD carries a very detailed article by Eileen Townsend about the crew of the lifeboat James Marsh that capsized outside Johnshaven harbour on 21st December 1920. The lifeboat was returning after rescuing crew of the Danish barquentine Fredensborg wrecked in St Cyrus Bay. The cox was John McBay who survived the disaster.
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Hi Johnner kid,
I cannot get a copy of the magazine down in London and tried several places up in Scotland but no joy, any ideas how I can obtain a copy!!!
Regardss
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macca 14,
Hi Wendy,
I have found "Harry's" birth on Scotlands people and the 1891 census,
Henry Sheret McBay b.1887 Benholm Kincardine, 253/00 0054 you can obtain a copy of the birth from SP on a pay as you go system.
You are right regarding the ship that Henry(Harry) sailed on was the Miltiades from London 1911.
There is another Henry Sheret McBay b.1914 Lerwick,Scot. who sailed to Melbourne on the ORFORD,2 Feb 1929, two of his brothers had already gone to Australia in 1927, John David and George Douglas MCBAY, their parents were John MCB and Edith Jane Blyth and they were living in GRT.Yarmouth,England at the time.
As I have said above scotlandspeople.org.uk is the official site for all Scottish history.
I have a copy of the 1891 Scotland census for David and Ann MCB. and there family and I will send you a copy by PM.
I have got myself quite confused trying to sort this line of the MCBAYS out, so forgive me if I have made any more mistakes and let me know. Unfortunately age and IT do not sit together to well.
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Hi Foggman,
Not sure if I can post the address of the publisher here.
The magazine was on sale in shop in Montrose last month when I was briefly up north attending the funeral of family friend. I'll send you a personal message.
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Hi Johnner kid,
I cannot get a copy of the magazine down in London and tried several places up in Scotland but no joy, any ideas how I can obtain a copy!!!
Regardss
Try their website -
http://www.leopardmag.co.uk/
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Hi,
Leopard magazine article is all sorted, many thanks.
All I have to do now is try and sort out all the names and their families. I am sure I am related to most of the crew members of the James Marsh Lifeboat which capsized in 1920. The article was clear and the line-up picture of the crew members was great.
There are too many James'/John's/Geoge's/Alexander's/Thomas',
MCBAY/BLUES/RITCHIE/STEPHEN are surnames in my line.
Can anyone help me sort them out.
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hi Foggyman :)
can you list the names of the crew ?
ev
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Hi Ev,
Yes I can,but I am a very poor/slow typist and it may take a while to do: James Marsh Lifeboat 21 Dec 1920.
Crew List as follows:-
John McBay Coxswain.(3c2r?)
George McBay 2nd Cox.(2c3r?)
Thomas Blues No1 Boatman.(2c3r)? oldest member of crew, wife Isabella Soutar?
James Dixon. unknown
Barclay Cargill.unknown
James D McBay, I think the middle name should be "Mearns".( if so, 3c2r?)
Thomas Blues No2 (son of No1,if so,3c2r)?
John Ritchie.( about 5 John's in Johnshaven at the time,possibly all related?)
John William Stephen Marr.to Jean Bell Blues (3c2r).I have managed to sort this one out.
Alexander McBay.(Possible b.1879 Johnshaven, maybe known as "Cy BEY", if so 3c2r?)
John Mearns McBay.(Possible b.1877,marr. to Helen Mackie Blues, if so both are cousins,JMMB(3c2r), Helen(2c3r)
Robert Paton, unknown.
The lady who wrote the article in the Feb,2011 issue of the Leopard Magazine is Eileen Townsend who I have had connections with in the past and I believe she maybe be a subscriber to Rootschat, but I am not sure how to find her.
I do apologise for not being able to understand how to use these Forums very well but age and IT do not sit very well together and I do try my best before posting.
The article that Eilleen has written is a very moving account of the rescue with snippets of the crew that lead me to believe that I may be related to possibly all that crew on the day of the fatal capsize of the lifeboat James Marsh.
The attached picture is of the Dedication Service and Memorial to all members of the RNLI who gave their lives saving others.
I got there in the end, to me typing this was a marathon!!!
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Hi Ev,
In the end I forgot to add the pictures!!!
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that's ok :)
barclay cargill born 1891 bervie kincardine(SP)
did he survive the disaster ? death showing in 1976 stonehaven born c1892
marriage for a barclay cargill to mary dickson 1916 benholm kincardine
mary possibly died 1917 montrose and barclay remarried in aberdeenshire
football team 1897(john mearns mcbay)-
http://www.johnshaven.com/index.asp?id=1&refID=10&refID2=13&refID3=18&contentID=18
i'll add to this post if i find anything else
ev
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Hi Ev,
The only member of the crew to die was James McBay plus two members of the ship "Fredensborg" who were in the overcrowded lifeboat.
Reards
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there was a james donaldson mcbay born 1882 benholm kincardine(SP)
if you are sure that james mearns mcbay died in 1920 then perhaps the 2
men have been confused :-\
ev
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Hi Ev,
Many thanks for coming back to me, I have problems retaining what I read and it is nice to be able post and very nice people help me.
You are right the James D died 1948 Gourdon. I have carefully read the article again and found another snippet that helps, the article quotes "Jean McBay was searching the grey waters for her husband Jim. Already they had lost their two sons, Jim and John aged 14 and 2 years. In the melee at the pier head it was difficult to make out who was still in the water. As panic reached fever pitch, Jean McBay heard her brother-in-law Alex. known as Cy Bey( was he the Alex.McBay the crew member?) give a shout. He had spotted Jim just beyond the the mouth of the harbour," unquote. As there were a lot of the villagers of Johnshaven watching the awful events and trying to throw ropes to the men in the water, it is not clear who the Alex.Mcbay is!. I now believe the James that died was James Mearns McBay b.1882,Johnshaven,Benholm and was married to Jane Mowatt (Jane/Jean again) date unknown. Jim McBay was washed ashore dead.
Once again many thanks for helping me with this as I have no one down hear in Surrey that is interested in family history.
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there are a few trees on rootsweb that would seem to confirm our thinking
http://worldconnect.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=rivait&id=I17478
http://worldconnect.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=laurelle&id=I17745
ev
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Its amazing how childhood memories are awakened when events like these are discussed.
I remember John Bey, Cy Bey and Tammie Blues as old men. (Cy is local Johnner vernacular for Alexander and the name McBay was always reduced to BEY which just happens to be the pre 1855 spelling on gravestones). In my childhood the story of the disaster was still being talked of thirty years after the event. Eileen's Leopard article will no doubt resurrect it again.
Among my miscellany of Johnshaven stuff I have unearthed some short transcripts from newspapers of the time:
From the "Mearns Leader" dated 24th December 1920.
"JOHNSHAVEN LIFEBOAT DISASTER”
Three Men Drowned
A sad disaster befell the Johnshaven lifeboat James Marsh, on Tuesday afternoon at the entrance to the harbour on returning with the shipwrecked crew of nine, of the Danish three-masted barquentine, Fredensburg, when three of her company were lost by drowning.
From "Mearns Leader" dated 14th October 1921.
"LIFEBOAT CREW HONOURED"
….. the lifeboat, while negotiating the entrance to the harbour, capsized, thus resulting in the loss of three lives. Amongst those who perished was James McBay, Mid St. (cousin of John McBay, the coxswain) who succumbed within an arm's length of succour from the land, with his wife a spectator of the heartrending spectacle. Two members of the shipwrecked crew were also victims.
Captain Hoyer Millar [Danish Vice Consul at Montrose] said he was proud to be asked to perform the presentation. [Twelve cups presented to crew of lifeboat]
Scotsman 16 August 1921:
"JOHNSHAVEN LIFEBOAT CREW HONOURED .
TWELVE SILVER CUPS FROM THE KING OF DENMARK.
The Board of Trade have received through the Foreign Office twelve silver cups, which have been awarded by His Majesty the King of Denmark to John McBay (coxswain), George McBay (second coxswain), Thomas Blues (No. 1 bowman), and James Dickson, Barclay Cargill , James D. McBay, Thomas Blues (No. 2), John Ritchie, John William Stephen, Alexander McBay, John Mearns McBay, and Robert Paton, members of the crew of the Johnshaven lifeboat James Marsh in recognition of their services in rescuing the crew of the schooner Fredensborg, of Korsor, which was wrecked in St Cyrus Bay on the 21st December 1920. A monetary award [50 guineas] has also been made to the widow of James McBay, ….
Also these photos taken by me in recent years the location of the disaster
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Hi Johnner Kid,
Many thanks for info. and photos.
You say you remember John Bey, Cy Bey and Tammie Blues as old men,
but do you know who there parents/wives/children were? I have some names as follows:-
Alex, McBay, b1880,died?, parents: Edward (sma ned) and Martha Alexander.
Alex.McBay.b1878,died 1963, wife Jane Lownie Watt, parents: John Mearns McBay b.1828 and Elizabeth Pert.
Another:
Alex. Mcbay b.1878, died ?, wife Isabella Taylor, parents: Edward (lang ned) McBay and Geogina Waiter.
Alex. McBay, b1879, died ?, parents: John Mearns Jnr. McBay and Christina Alexander.
John McBay, b 1894, died 1978?, wives Elizabeth Chalmers and Jessie Simpson, parents: William McBay and Susan Young McBay.
John McBay, b 1886, died 1971, parents: Logie McBay and Agnes Farquhar Donaldson.
John Mearns McBay, b 1877, died ?, wife Helen Mackie Blues, parents: John Mearns Jnr.McBay and Christina Alexander.
Thomas Duncan Blues, b 1871, died 1959,wife Isabella Soutar, parents: Thomas Blues and Jane Mackie. ( was he known as "Tam").
Thomas Blues, b 1899, died ?, Parents:Thomas Duncan Blues and Isabella Soutar ( was he known as "tam")
More to come, stopping for lunch after another marathon typing session for me.
I look forward to all comments.
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Hi Foggyman,
Give me a bit of time, I'll do my best to sort out what I know.
You need to know that I'm now obviously fairly long in the tooth.
The Johnsaven times I'm remembering were when I was hardly yet into my teenage years.
I had two particularly close McBay friends, Ian, gransdson of Cy and Toosh (don't ask me why she was called such a strange name). Ian's family left the village.
My closest friend was Eddie son of Edward (who was the local butcher).
He and Eileen's brother Allan were close friends right through my early teens and even later when they were called up for National Service in the RAF and I had joined the M N and only returned occasionally to the village for holidays.
Cheers,
Cy Pitt (or just Pitny) - as I was known then
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Hi Foggyman
It has taken me a week to sort out my accumulated notes on the Johnner Bysers.
I think they are now in shape that is readable by others.
I'll send you a file in pdf off list.
Your question re Thomas -- that would almost certainly be rendered as Tam or Tammie in the Johnner vernacular. Nobody I knew ever got their proper name. Hence McBay = Byser.
William = Wully or Wulty : Alexander = sometimes Sandy but more often just Cy oe Elik.
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Foggyman-
I think I replied to this posting AGES ago! Just found some of my notes tonight. Anything else may have been in emails from my cousin.
You have -
John Mearns McBay, b 1877, died ?, wife Helen Mackie Blues, parents: John Mearns Jnr.McBay and Christina Alexander
I have -
John Mearns Mcbay(b1877) m Helen Mackie Blues 24.10.1902
They had a son - John Mearns McBay b 18.11.1909
Helen Mackie Blues died 4.1.1910
John Mearns McBay (b1877) then married Mary Cargill (widow of George Milne) 21.10 1921 at Gourdon. I don't think they had any children, but Mary Cargill had two daughters - one married my uncle. My cousin remembers John Mearns McBay, her 'Deddy' - that's Gourdon/Gurden speak for grandfather!
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I have -
John Mearns Mcbay(b1877) m Helen Mackie Blues 24.10.1902
They had a son - John Mearns McBay b 18.11.1909
Helen Mackie Blues died 4.1.1910
John Mearns McBay (b1877) then married Mary Cargill (widow of George Milne) 21.10 1921 at Gourdon. I don't think they had any children, .....
Thanks for that, I'm now clearer on the various John Mearns McBAY lines.
Here are the earlier ones.
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Hi All,
Alexander McBay b. c1705 Ireland???, married Janet Anderson 19 Sept 1727 Broadhyth,Rathven, Banffs. Scotland. Both died in Broadhyth, Alex d. 1765 and Janet d.1775, they had eight children:- Jean b. 19 Sept 1727, James b.31 Aug 1729, Alexander b.27 Aug 1732, William b.1737, d.1737, b/d not recorded, William b.15 Jan 1738, Elspet b.15 May 1741, and twins Anna and Robert b.29 Dec 1745, all born in the parish of Rathven,Banffs.
The stories handed down through the McBay line that I have been told is that two McBay men came from the sea and married two local Blues girls(cousins???).
I have a theory that the two McBay men may have been Father James b. 1729 and his son John b. 1754 Broadhyth in a previous marriage in Rathven on 30 Sept 1752 to Margaret Smith b. c1735 and died c1768. James and Margaret had four children two may not have survived and his son John b. 1754 and daughter Janet b. 1762 came to Saint Cyrus,Kincs together.
This is my theory based on all the evidence I have collected.
I look forward to any comments.
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[quote The stories handed down through the McBay line that I have been told is that two McBay men came from the sea and married two local Blues girls(cousins???).
I have a theory that the two McBay men may have been Father James b. 1729 and his son John b. 1754 Broadhyth in a previous marriage in Rathven on 30 Sept 1752 to Margaret Smith b. c1735 and died c1768.......This is my theory based on all the evidence I have collected.
I look forward to any comments.
quote]
My comment is that Foggyman has proposed a much better theory than the notion I had.
I simplistically assumed that two brothers had married two local sisters and established families in the fishing community of Miltonhaven in St Cyrus Parish just a few miles south of Johnshaven. I now happily abandon that notion.
There is evidence in the Old Statistical Account that Miltonhaven was destroyed by a winter storm and the McBey survivors moved their families to Johnshaven where they had relatives.
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Hi Johnner Kid,
Many thanks for info. and photos.
You say you remember John Bey, Cy Bey and Tammie Blues as old men,
but do you know who there parents/wives/children were? I have some names as follows:-
Alex, McBay, b1880,died?, parents: Edward (sma ned) and Martha Alexander.
Alex.McBay.b1878,died 1963, wife Jane Lownie Watt, parents: John Mearns McBay b.1828 and Elizabeth Pert.
Another:
Alex. Mcbay b.1878, died ?, wife Isabella Taylor, parents: Edward (lang ned) McBay and Geogina Waiter.
Alex. McBay, b1879, died ?, parents: John Mearns Jnr. McBay and Christina Alexander.
John McBay, b 1894, died 1978?, wives Elizabeth Chalmers and Jessie Simpson, parents: William McBay and Susan Young McBay.
John McBay, b 1886, died 1971, parents: Logie McBay and Agnes Farquhar Donaldson.
John Mearns McBay, b 1877, died ?, wife Helen Mackie Blues, parents: John Mearns Jnr.McBay and Christina Alexander.
Thomas Duncan Blues, b 1871, died 1959,wife Isabella Soutar, parents: Thomas Blues and Jane Mackie. ( was he known as "Tam").
Thomas Blues, b 1899, died ?, Parents:Thomas Duncan Blues and Isabella Soutar ( was he known as "tam")
More to come, stopping for lunch after another marathon typing session for me.
I look forward to all comments.
Hi There my name is Kenny Blues, Thomas Blues b1899 (died in the late seventies) was my Grandad he was also awarded the BEM for his part in the rescue of passengers when his ship the "LONDON" was in a collision in thick fog . Thomas Blues b 1871 "Diddy Tam" was my great grandfather.He was awarded one of the twelve cups from Denmark which I have in my possession.
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Hi Johnner Kid,
Many thanks for info. and photos.
You say you remember John Bey, Cy Bey and Tammie Blues as old men,
but do you know who there parents/wives/children were? I have some names as follows:-
Alex, McBay, b1880,died?, parents: Edward (sma ned) and Martha Alexander.
Alex.McBay.b1878,died 1963, wife Jane Lownie Watt, parents: John Mearns McBay b.1828 and Elizabeth Pert.
Another:
Alex. Mcbay b.1878, died ?, wife Isabella Taylor, parents: Edward (lang ned) McBay and Geogina Waiter.
Alex. McBay, b1879, died ?, parents: John Mearns Jnr. McBay and Christina Alexander.
John McBay, b 1894, died 1978?, wives Elizabeth Chalmers and Jessie Simpson, parents: William McBay and Susan Young McBay.
John McBay, b 1886, died 1971, parents: Logie McBay and Agnes Farquhar Donaldson.
John Mearns McBay, b 1877, died ?, wife Helen Mackie Blues, parents: John Mearns Jnr.McBay and Christina Alexander.
Thomas Duncan Blues, b 1871, died 1959,wife Isabella Soutar, parents: Thomas Blues and Jane Mackie. ( was he known as "Tam").
Thomas Blues, b 1899, died ?, Parents:Thomas Duncan Blues and Isabella Soutar ( was he known as "tam")
More to come, stopping for lunch after another marathon typing session for me.
I look forward to all comments.
Hi There my name is Kenny Blues, Thomas Blues b1899 (died in the late seventies) was my Grandad he was also awarded the BEM for his part in the rescue of passengers when his ship the "LONDON" was in a collision in thick fog . Thomas Blues b 1871 "Diddy Tam" was my great grandfather.He was awarded one of the twelve cups from Denmark as was my Grandad which I have in my possession. An interesting fact about Diddy Tam was that while attending to his fishing boat in Montrose Basin he was strafed by a german Heinkel and had a good portion of his side shot out. He had to wear a special brace on his side thereafter
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Hi Blues60,
Thomas Blues B.1899 is my 3c2r and our common ancestor is Alexander McBay/Christian Ritchie. I have a lot of information on our early ancestors if you are interested. My Line is Thomas McBay b.7 Dec 1811(3x Grt.G/F) m. Martha Davidson 1835,Garvoc,St.Cyrus,Kincs. they had four children, John(2xGrt. G/F) b1835 Mariner m. Carherine McKenzie 4th. Qtr. 1857 Sunderland Co.Durham, England. They had four children, John(William)(Grt.Grandfather) m. Ann Jane(Elizabeth)Finch, 15 June 1880, Sunderland, Co Durham, they had four children, Martha(Grandmother) m? Alexander Wyllie,a marr. not proven.
Your John Blues b. 1788 marr. my Elizabeth McBay(4xGrt.Aunt) 5 May 1837 they had six children.
My Thomas McBay b.1811 was a Master Mariner and mastered several ships. He died in Peterhead Harbour,Scotland, under suspicious circumstances and was found in the water apparently crushed between moored boats on 22 Oct 1870 aged 58 and was buried under the name of James McBey in the grave of his friend.
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Its amazing how childhood memories are awakened when events like these are discussed.
I remember John Bey, Cy Bey and Tammie Blues as old men. (Cy is local Johnner vernacular for Alexander and the name McBay was always reduced to BEY which just happens to be the pre 1855 spelling on gravestones). In my childhood the story of the disaster was still being talked of thirty years after the event. Eileen's Leopard article will no doubt resurrect it again.
Among my miscellany of Johnshaven stuff I have unearthed some short transcripts from newspapers of the time:
From the "Mearns Leader" dated 24th December 1920.
"JOHNSHAVEN LIFEBOAT DISASTER”
Three Men Drowned
A sad disaster befell the Johnshaven lifeboat James Marsh, on Tuesday afternoon at the entrance to the harbour on returning with the shipwrecked crew of nine, of the Danish three-masted barquentine, Fredensburg, when three of her company were lost by drowning.
From "Mearns Leader" dated 14th October 1921.
"LIFEBOAT CREW HONOURED"
….. the lifeboat, while negotiating the entrance to the harbour, capsized, thus resulting in the loss of three lives. Amongst those who perished was James McBay, Mid St. (cousin of John McBay, the coxswain) who succumbed within an arm's length of succour from the land, with his wife a spectator of the heartrending spectacle. Two members of the shipwrecked crew were also victims.
Captain Hoyer Millar [Danish Vice Consul at Montrose] said he was proud to be asked to perform the presentation. [Twelve cups presented to crew of lifeboat]
Scotsman 16 August 1921:
"JOHNSHAVEN LIFEBOAT CREW HONOURED .
TWELVE SILVER CUPS FROM THE KING OF DENMARK.
The Board of Trade have received through the Foreign Office twelve silver cups, which have been awarded by His Majesty the King of Denmark to John McBay (coxswain), George McBay (second coxswain), Thomas Blues (No. 1 bowman), and James Dickson, Barclay Cargill , James D. McBay, Thomas Blues (No. 2), John Ritchie, John William Stephen, Alexander McBay, John Mearns McBay, and Robert Paton, members of the crew of the Johnshaven lifeboat James Marsh in recognition of their services in rescuing the crew of the schooner Fredensborg, of Korsor, which was wrecked in St Cyrus Bay on the 21st December 1920. A monetary award [50 guineas] has also been made to the widow of James McBay, ….
Also these photos taken by me in recent years the location of the disaster
Hi There my name is Kenny Blues, Thomas Blues b1899 (died in the late seventies) was my Grandad he was also awarded the BEM for his part in the rescue of passengers when his ship the "LONDON" was in a collision in thick fog . Thomas Blues b 1871 "Diddy Tam" was my great grandfather.He was awarded one of the twelve cups from Denmark as was my Grandad which I have in my possession. An interesting fact about Diddy Tam was that while attending to his fishing boat in Montrose Basin he was strafed by a german Heinkel and had a good portion of his side shot out. He had to wear a special brace on his side thereafter
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Hi Kenny,
Don't think I can send you a PM yet -- you need to post a couple more times before that feature opens for you.
The article about the lifeboat disaster in Leopard magazine was written by a friend of mine, Eileen Townsend. The photograph of the crew on the title page of the article list two men by the name of Thomas Blues. They would be your great grandfather and grandfather. I remember an old man called Tammie Blues who lived in the cottage near the end of the harbour dock. I also remember a Dod Blues (in non-Johnner speak that would be George of course). In my middle teens I actually bought a BSA Bantam motor bike off George.
As I said, Eileen is a friend, would you like me ask her for the source of the photograph she used in the article she wrote?
Cheers,
Sy
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Hi Kenny,
Don't think I can send you a PM yet -- you need to post a couple more times before that feature opens for you.
The article about the lifeboat disaster in Leopard magazine was written by a friend of mine, Eileen Townsend. The photograph of the crew on the title page of the article list two men by the name of Thomas Blues. They would be your great grandfather and grandfather. I remember an old man called Tammie Blues who lived in the cottage near the end of the harbour dock. I also remember a Dod Blues (in non-Johnner speak that would be George of course). In my middle teens I actually bought a BSA Bantam motor bike off George.
As I said, Eileen is a friend, would you like me ask her for the source of the photograph she used in the article she wrote?
Cheers,
Sy
Hi Sy, that would be great.My grandad lived on Fore St his sister was Matt McBay(nee Blues) and was married to Ed Mcbay senior the butcher. I spent many happy holidays in Johnner in the cottages in Fore St Matt had two that were joined together
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Hi Kenny,
What a coincidence ! Young Ed McBay was one of my best pals at shool and later in our teens and into our early twenties. Eileen's brother Allan, Ed and I had great fun in summer in the slough in from of his home. I called Ed's mum Auntie Matt but she wasn't of course but then I found tracing back that through my mother's side - the Freeman family we were related. I will email Eileen about the lifeboat crew photo source.
In the meantime can you send me a email address, through the PM option NOT HERE that is not allowed, and I'll send some more on the lifeboat disaster article if you haven't already got it.
Best Wishes,
Sy
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Hi All,
To all who read this post, I thought you might like to see some photos of the dedication service in Sept. 2009 at the headquarters of the RNLI in Poole Dorset, for all lifeboat people who lost their lives saving others.
I hope you like them.
Mike
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Hi Again,
More photos
Mike
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Hi Again,
More Photos
Mike
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Hi again.
More Photos. Slight mess-up, thats all.
Mike
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Due to the loss of my wife Jean on the 18 Feb 2013, I have not been very active with my research on the
MCBAY/BEY ancestors and I am no sure if I replied to all messages that I may have received over the past 2 years.
I hope to renew my research in due course.
Regards
foggyman
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Sorry to hear about your sad loss , Foggyman :(
Good luck in continuing your research.
ev
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Hello again Mike, please accept my sincere sympathy on your loss. Sy
I recently visited Johnshaven old graveyard and too kook his photo of the memoria to James McBAY. This graveyard has a number of memorials to McBay family members and others who lost their lives at sea.
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Hi My name is John Blues born 1943 my father was George Blues (Doh Blues) Married to Margaret (Meg) Ritchie lived in no.1 herds crescent, Johnshaven. My grandfather was Diddy Tam. I have family tree dating back to 1522 at present. Anyone remember any family members. I ended up being a lifeboatman in Arbroath serving over 32 years. It must be in the blood. Would love to hear from anyone who knows me or my family.
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Hi Foggyman, was your fathers name Rick? Did you or rick buy the BSA Bantam from dod blues, if so when? Sorry to hear of your loss. John Blues.
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Did you or rick buy the BSA Bantam from dod blues, if so when?
Hello Jock,
I'm five years older than you so if you went to Johnshaven Primary or Mackie in Stoney we would not have been at school together. I'm the person who bought the BSA Bantam. I can't give you a precise date but it was late 1950s, probably on one of my leave breaks between ships. I was in the Merchant Navy from age 17 to 22, most of the time on Shell Tankers. I got married in the early 196Os, changed to a shore job and moved away from Johnshaven to Stirlingshire only returning to take holidays with family.
The BSA was passed to my Dad who travelled daily from Johnner to Bervie on a push bike. He did that for many years to get to his work. He was a baker and work for Coupers. I think he sometimes took the shore road from 'Johnner', through 'Gurden' to Bervie so the Bantam didn't survive that very long.
Best Wishes
Sy
in Dumfries
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Cant put a face to the name i was in Johner primary from 1947 - 1950 that means you must of been in primary 4. Then left for a couple of years to go to Craigo. Do you know George Adam? John Henderson or Alfie Nichol or David Ritchie? Regards John
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Yes Jock, I know them all ! Alphie and his two brothers Bill and Irvine. Both Fat & Skinny Ritchie were pals of my youngest brother Wattie P. Skinny R is now deceased as are many of my early Johnner pals.
My best pal for many years was Eddie McBay, our friendship continued right up until he died. His father was Edward one of the two local Butchers business. National service split a lot of us up, most went into the Army or Airforce, I bucked the trend and went to Leith Nautical College and then the MN as an Apprentice.
Today when I visit Johnshaven, there are very few I know. Still around are Clark S. & Ron W who were both a little older than me. Also seen at my last visit in August were Frankie L & Robbie C who are both my vintage.
I'm sorry Jock but I can't place you in the Johnner gang but that is probably due to the age difference. In the war years we lived in the flats below the Mason's Hall just up the close from Tammie Blues's cottage. We moved to the new houses at Waughton Place after that.
I called Ed's mother Auntie Matt although she wasn't actually my aunt, she was a Blues -- we are related a few generatons back though when my mother's line, the FREEMANs, married with the MACKIEs.
I was known as Sandy P or Alec P while in Johnshaven. Names were dictated by what teachers called you. At Mackie Academy I got Alex.
My brother Wattie P died a couple of years ago, my brother Bill now lives the Newcastle area.
Had better stop before the moderators tell me I'm wrting too much.
Best Wishes
Sandy P
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Hi everyone, I thought I'd add a little bit to the discussion as I'm in the process of organizing a trip to Johnshaven in June (I live in Victoria, BC, Canada) and you're filling in a few blanks for me - thanks! Also, this is my first post on Rootschat so hope I do this properly. :)
My Great Grandfather was Thomas Ritchie Jarvis (1866-1954). His father was James Jarvis (1847-1933) and his mother was Elspeth Wood (1848-1913). Thomas was the eldest child and it looks like there were 9 children in total but I've still got research to do on his siblings.
If anyone is interested, I have some old photos of James, Thomas, and Thomas's sister, Elsie (who married into the McBeys), as well as other family members taken on visits to Johnshaven - some are taken in the 1920's, some in the late 1940's and early 50's. Thomas had moved away and served in the Merchant Navy until finally marrying Maggie Galloway in 1896 and settling in Paisley.
Regards,
Merle B. nee Jarvis
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Hi,
Elspet married my 2c3xr CHARLES MCBAY 1898 Benholm SP Ref. 253/00 0003.
Our common ancestors will be my 4xgrt.grandparents Alexander b. 22 Jul 1769, Miltonhaven St.Cyrus, Kincs. McBay/Bey and Christian Ritchie b.24 Jun 1783 Benholm. They had 11 children and my line comes from Thomas b.7 Dec 1811 Miltonhaven.
I have a lot of information on the MCBAY/BAY line if you are interested.
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Hi foggyman,
Yes, I am very interested.
I've also been curious about the Ritchie connection. It is my Great Grandfather and my Uncle's middle name but was never able to make the connection before. My Uncle is also Thomas Ritchie Jarvis.
Thanks very much!
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Hi,
I do not have any information on the JARVIS line. I am able to help you with the Mcbay/Bey
line.
Send me any questions you may have and I will try and answer them.
Regards
Mike
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Thanks, I was just checking your McBay/McBey information and saw the Elspet Ritchie Jarvis/Charles McBay and Jimmy Simpson/Lizzie McBay entries. I'm just going to head out to meet my Dad for coffee and will fill him in on all this. Jimmy and Lizzie visited Vancouver, I believe, in the seventies. I have a photo of them with my Grandparents and my Dad.
When I visit Johnshaven in June, I will be going to the cemetery. Am I right in thinking that there isn't a plan of the graves?
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Hi,
I Live near LONDON UK and have never been to the areas where my
ancestors came from, so I can't answer your question regarding a grave plan.
It is very interesting that you plan to be in Johnshaven in June 2014, because
there are 3 sisters coming over from Canada in June who are also related to
common grandparents. I am awaiting a message from them regarding their
itinerary as I am also planning to be in Scotland around the same time to
carry out some research. It would be very interesting if we could all be there
around the same time.
Regards
Mike
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Coincidences! I'll be in Scotland for about 6 weeks, arriving at the end of May and returning July 8th. I will be "based" in East Renfrewshire but have 3 small adventures planned. Island of Luing for other family research, 3 nights in Johnshaven (small cottage already booked and confirmed) and then a coach tour of the highlands and Outer Hebrides (no family research, just because). I've left time in between to do some day trips but also to spend some time at the Mitchell Library in Glasgow checking the archives.
Keep in touch regarding the dates, a family reunion would be interesting indeed!
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It has been very interesting to read the contributions to this post. I have some McBay's in my family and wonder what connections there might be with the McBays mentioned. My Great Grandmother was born Margaret Jane McBay in 1882 at Catterline. Her father was James Hamilton McBay, married to Fanny Stephen, and her Grandfather was Alexander McBay, married to Marianne or Mary Anne Pike. James Hamilton was born in Freswick, Caithness and Alexander was a Coastguard. The Coastguard at Catterline in 1841 was James McBay, but I don't know what connection he has to my family although location and occupation make this likely.
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Hi Heather,
I can answer all your questions.
At this very moment I am staying in the converted OLD FISHING STATION in St.Cyrus and I
have been here for the last eight days I leave today to go to Edinburgh, then fly home to London
on Wednesday.
I will send you the details I have by the end of this weekend.
I look forward to hearing from you again.
Regards
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Thank you Foggyman. I look forward to hearing what you have discovered.
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Hi Heather,
You sent me a message Re: McBay/Bey line that are my ancestors. I cannot reply because there is an error re: your address.
I am off to California, USA on 5th Aug and will not be back home again until 23 Aug. The information you have given in your message does show we are related.
Send me another message and I will make contact with you when I return from USA.
Regards
Mike
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Hi Mike, I'll send you another message with my email address. Look forward to hearing from you Heather
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An earlier link to the Johnshaven football club doesn't seem to be working, but here's a link to the main page: http://www.johnshaven.com/ There are some great pictures on this site. I particularly love the photograph of Betsy Souter, nee McBay, born in 1842.
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I had forgotten all about Rootschat, but was at the Who Do You Think You Are event in Glasgow yesterday and at one of the talks it was mentioned. I did manage to find my login.
My McBay connection is on my mother side, Isabella Young McBay was my great grandmother, she married John Simpson in 1881. Like quite a few others in these posts I to have loads of McBay information, am lucky that I work in Edinburgh and visit Register House frequently.
Oh and Mike I am shamed to say I have an unread message from you - from 2008!!!
Promise to do better now.
John
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Hi,
I need help tracing my ancestors and after reading these posts I think I have relatives in common with some of you.
I am trying to trace James Morrice and have came to a bit of a stop. With a bit of lateral thinking I thought I may be able to trace him via the McBays.
He married Jean Ballow (b1726 d1795) in 1750. They had lots of children but one was a daughter Elizabeth who married John Ritchie b1751.
John and Elizabeth had a daughter named Elizabeth b1779 who married John Mearns b1776.
This union produced a daughter Isobel b1809 d1887 who married Edward McBay b1804 d1848
I have Edward as being lost at sea and note there was also a son, another Edward, who died the same year as his father. Isobel must have been pregnant when her husband drowned as there is a son born in 1848 named Edward.
At least that is what I have so far.
I am a descendant of a son of James and Jean Morrice , James b1757 married Bel Machar b1762.
They all came from Johnshaven and as far as I can tell James was a white fisherman.
I can't get to Benholm to look in the parish records as I am in Australia, altho I would dearly love to.
Can anyone help me find James and his family?
kind regards
Dallas
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Dallas,
Had a look at my records and I have Isabel(la) Mearns's mother as a Chrisitina Ritchie who was married John Mearns, which is slightly different from what you have
I assume that I got Isabella's parents from her death in 1887.
I will check that the next time I am at Register House in Edinburgh.
John
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Hi John,
Thank you for that info.
It's been a while since I did all this so I can't remember where I got my info from.
I had a cousin looking at another branch of the family tree which has renewed my interest.
I have tried to attach what I have found so I hope it shows up.
It looks like it may be the same family but I have the wrong sister.
I look forward to seeing what you find.
cheers
Dallas
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It has been very interesting to read the contributions to this post. I have some McBay's in my family and wonder what connections there might be with the McBays mentioned. My Great Grandmother was born Margaret Jane McBay in 1882 at Catterline. Her father was James Hamilton McBay, married to Fanny Stephen, and her Grandfather was Alexander McBay, married to Marianne or Mary Anne Pike. James Hamilton was born in Freswick, Caithness and Alexander was a Coastguard. The Coastguard at Catterline in 1841 was James McBay, but I don't know what connection he has to my family although location and occupation make this likely.
Hi Heather, I am currently building my ancestry tree and the above people are related to me. Your great gran Margaret Jane McBay is sister to my gran Mary Ann McBay. It would be nice to link up and share ancestry information. Your thoughts welcome, regards Sheila
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Hello Sheila, It is lovely to hear from you. I have only been looking into my family for some months, but have already found some interesting history. I'd be delighted to share what I've found. As you see a few folk on this topic have done research into the McBay family and I have found it very helpful although I still have to find links between known family members and others who are likely.
I have sent a personal message so that you can contact me directly.
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Sheila, I've just realised that the private message may not work as you need to have made a few postings first.
I had some help a while back looking for Mary Ann Pike's family. Mary Ann was my Margaret Jane and your Mary Ann's grandmother and she was born in Devon. Here is a link to the forum topic:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=693133.0
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Hi - I hope that even though this post was so long ago someone might still read it. My son-in-law and I are researching his McBay line. His great grandfather was David Logie Cargill McBay born to John Mearns McBay and his second wife Mary Cargill in Johnshaven in 1922. I have read on this post that people didn't think there was a child from that marriage, but there was David, who moved to Cumbria as a young man. Any help with this line would be really appreciated.
Thanks