RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Cheshire => Topic started by: Briannicus on Tuesday 08 September 09 17:24 BST (UK)
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Dear all,
This particular one is a bit before the censuses started but you never know.
I am looking for facts about John Fletcher, printer, died a widower Jan 7 1835. [This made him 72 at the time of his death]
I can't find his wife, or discover the parentage of the relatives mentioned in his will.
- Alice Berrington. Sister
-Thomas Fletcher. Nephew
-Fletcher Fletcher. Nephew [On IGI I found a Fletcher Fletcher, born HALTON, CHESHIRE, Father Thomas Fletcher, mother Elizabeth, but nothing more]
-Martha Owen nee Fletcher. Niece. [Found marriage of a Martha Fletcher to James Owen 1780-1835 on 30 December 1819 at Runcorn; IGI does not mention fathers' names so not sure it's the right one]
The nephews and niece are of an unnamed, but deceased, brother.
Thanks in advance for anything.
Regards,
Brian
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Brian
I have been going through the 19c weekly 4 a month newspapers for the year 1835.I had forgotten if you gave any other info on his death,so just came back to check because I have found 3 entries for a death in the first quarter For A John Fletcher which i think is yours.I am only up to April so didn't want to go further in case it wasn't your John.As I am not to quick on working out how old John would be when he died.So wanted to ask you but Now see you have him
John Fletcher, printer, died a widower Jan 7 1835. [This made him 72 at the time of his death]
This is the John I have found right date/year, but you are a bit out with his age,he was 80 when he died. Can you please confirm this before I print it all out.
Celia P.S. He Is of Chester
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Hi Celia,
Thanks for that.
The John, I'm talking about died Jan 7 1835. He was a printer and newspaper proprietor of Eastgate, Chester, and Sheriff, 1813. Mayor 1825.
This wretched family called themselves one of about three names so it's pretty hard to work out if one's talking about sons or nephews or whatever, but I would have thought his jobs and status should make him pretty clear.
I look forward to whatever you find, and if it's easier, do private me and I'll give you my email.
Thanks in anticipation,
Yours,
Brian
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Manchester Times Sat/10/1 1835
Died 7th January age 80 years Proprietor of the Chester Chronicle.
Belfast News Letter 23rd January 1835
Age 80 John Fletcher Esq. Proprietor of the Chester Chronicle
And twice chief magistrate of that city.
The Examiner Sunday 25th January 1835.
On the 7th in His 80th Year, after many years of severe bodily suffering
John Fletcher esq.For more than half a century the respected proprietor of
The newspaper didn’t get the end of that article in the scan
There must surely have been an article on his funeral, but I never came across one.
Celia
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Dear Celia,
Thank you very much for that.
The facts fill out what little we know, but it's shame there's no mention of wife (or children - though I think he may died childless), or other relatives.
Regards,
Brian
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You didnt give a name for his wife so i couldnt look for her ;)
Celia
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I don't know her name. It's one of the key facts I'm trying to discover. At first we thought he wasn't married but then found him described as a widower.
Brian
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Hi there,
Having ancestors in Chester I was interested in your post.
I wonder if you have looked up British History Online. I googled Chester mayor 1825 and it produced some political details and gave mention of John Fletcher which may be of interest to you.
Regards
Jean
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Dear Jean,
Thank you for that. I've been and had a look and found some interesting information.
Unfortunately, I still can't discover who his wife was, or the name of the sibling who was parent of the nieces and nephews mentioned in his will. I have, however, discovered that someone called Victoria Gardner (St John’s, Oxford) wrote a paper called
'Humble pie: the business strategy and political ambitions of John Fletcher of the Chester Chronicle, 1783-1835'. It can, apparently, be found in a rather expensive book called 'PERIODICALS AND PUBLISHERS. The newspaper and journal trade 1740-1914' I may try and borrow it from some library.
Yours,
Brian
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Hello Brian,
You certainly have an interesting and challenging member of your family to get to know.
I have read a few editions of the Chester Chronicle, they are on film at the library in Chester and make interesting reading, a good insight into that era.
I will keep my eyes open for any further information I may come across.
Good luck
Jean
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Dear Jean,
Thanks for that.
Please do keep your ey open as we've never found his obituary, and surely there must be one. I'm hoping it will have at least some family details.
By the way, he's the brother of my GGGGgrandfather, James Fletcher, and his brother, Robert, the well-known Chester clockmaker whose clock still adorns Eaton Hall.
Kind regards,
Brian
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What a wonderful past to uncover, Brian. You must be very proud.
My ancestors came from a much more humble background but just as difficult to find.
Have you tried the Chester History & Heritage,St Michaels Church. Take a look at their website they are very helpful. Your ancestor being such a distinguished member of Chester society would be sure to have left a fair amount of valuable information.
Best wishes
Jean
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Hi Jean,
Thanks very much for that.
I've just taken a quick look. Shall phone them tomorrow. Yes, one imagines there must be information on all of them but it's taken quite a lot of work to sort them out and find what we need, mainly due to sexism and the absence of mention of their womenfolk.
I have plenty of humble ancestors too (and one or two notorious ones), as well as Kings of England, Ireland and Scotland. Doesn't almost everyone if you get back far enough? I bet it wouldn't take too long to find some agricultural labourers in the Queen's pedigree, or some royalty in yours.
All the best,
Brian
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Hi Brian,
A little bit to hopefully start sorting out parentage;
Marriage;
SISTER;
Marriage,
Alice FLETCHER
Samuel BERRINGTON
07 May 1779, Runcorn, Cheshire
NEPHEWS/NEICE
Fletcher FLETCHER
Christening, 13 July 1806, Halton, Cheshire
Parents, THOMAS and ELIZABETH
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Thomas FLETCHER
Christening, 10 May 1800, Halton, Cheshire
Parents THOMAS and ELIZABETH
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Martha FLETCHER
Christening, 09 September 1798, Halton, Cheshire
Parents THOMAS and ELIZABETH
I cant find marriage for Thomas / Elizabeth though
All on IGI at Familysearch
Trish :)
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Hello Trish,
Thank you very much indeed for that.
I've seen SOME of that before but, as yet, have no record of there being a Thomas, brother to James, Robert Jnr, John and Mary, all children of Robert Fletcher Snr. and his wife, Eleanor (nee Grindley).
James and Robert were baptised in St. James' , Piccadilly, Westminster, and Mary at Holy Trinity, Chester but we have so far found nothing to connect a Thomas to Robert and Eleanor.
On the other hand, we know that John's will mentions an un-nanamed brother who was already dead. James and Robert died after John, so it is looking increasingly possible that this Thomas is the missing brother (especially as the list of children's names fits perfectly with the will).
Am I being too cautious? Possibly, but this family used the same names over and over again so one can easily get it wrong.
Kind regards and thanks again,
Brian
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No Brian you are not being too cautious. But the extra info you have now supplied could help immensely.
Have you found Alices christening?
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Hi Trish,
I've just made a bit of a break through. Am quite excited - yes I know it's sad, but when these knots get unpicked it's hard not to be.
I have the records from Holy Trinity, Chester and was working from an Excel file that I've just discovered (thanks to a combination of this discussion, IGI and the original records) had Robert written where it should have been Thomas. So now that's put right, we know that Thomas was baptised at Holy Trinity, Chester on 25 Jan 1767, son of Robert Fletcher.
Unfortunately, no sign of Alice anywhere in the Holy Trinity record, unless we've missed her. Shall recheck
Brian
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Fantastic ;D
I understand completely how you feel I get the same way ;)
Sometimes I even shed a tear.
Trish
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LOL!!
Have checked for Alice. She's not in the HTC record and can't find her on IGI so far.
Possibilities for Thomas and Elizabeth's marriages from IGI are:
Thomas Fletcher=Elizabeth Thorpe
03 JUN 1788 Cathedral, Manchester, Lancashire, England
Thomas Fletcher= Elizabeth Hutchinson
22 JAN 1787 Belchford, Lincoln, England
Thomas Fletcher= Elizabeth Jones
16 JUL 1787 St Martin, Birmingham, Warwick, England
Thomas Fletcher= Elizabeth Frith
09 APR 1787 Staveley, Derby, England
Too many to be really helpful unless something else turns up.
Brian
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In case you think I'm mad, I've just discovered that IGI threw up only those marriage dates, not because there weren't any more that were more accurate but simply because that's what their search engine did. I've now found many more candidates, but none so far in Halton, or Chester.
Brian
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Unfortunately they could have married anywhere as weddings usually take place in Brides Parish.
I even looked for Alices christening under Grindley just in case she was born before marriage.
Trish
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I've got to go to bed now but just checked Ancestry and there are at least one/two Thomas Fletchers, born abt 1767, still alive in 1841/1851/1861 Census 8)
One seems to have remarried a much younger woman ;D
If you dont have access will check it for you tomorrow night.
Cheers,
Trish :)
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Hi Trish,
Thanks for offer. No, I don't have access to the census info.
If you do look, remember that Thomas Fletcher Snr. died before 1835, His brother John's will states that Fletcher, Thomas and Martha were the children of a deceased brother, the Thomas we now appear to have identified.
Sweet dreams,
Brian
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Hi Brian,
Silly me :-[ I forgot he had died before the Will.
Cheers,
Trish
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Hi Trish,
No worries.
I found this yesterday, from a write-up on an archaeological dig in the Bridge Street area of Chester:
In the 19th century the site became known as ‘Fletcher’s Court’ after John Fletcher, owner of the Chester Chronicle, who bought it in 1813. The Chronicle office and printing works moved to the site by 1835 and remained there until the late 20th century.
Now you'd think a man like that would be easy to find, identify and discover the name of his wife, wouldn't you?
Brian
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Hello Brian, me again,
I don't want to confuse further but thought this marriage may have a connection:
Thomas Fletcher single
occupation husbandsman
married 1805 St Mary Chester
Mary Grindley widow
witnesses John Jones & Ann Jones
Hope it helps ;)
Jean
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Hello again Jean,
Not at all. Thank you very much.
In fact that's very interesting. The mother of John Robert, Thomas, Alice etc. was Eleanor nee Grindley. I found the below on IGI yesterday, which fits perfectly with her - her husband, also Robert, was born 1730 - and she was the only one within a 20 year span.
Eleanor Grindley
Baptised: 03 AUG 1735, Whitchurch, Shropshire, England
Parents: Wuilliam Grindley and Ellinor [sic]
Now where do this Thomas and Mary fit, I wonder?
Brian
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There was another Thomas Fletcher around born about the same time as Johns brother. He is probably the one I found who married at 70ish a woman 40 years younger.
In earlier Census he is a widower. He lived into his 90's ;D
Trish
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They obviously fit in somewhere, a bit of detective work needed, Holmes. :)
Have you checked out the Cheshire resources on RC?
There are quite a few Fletchers mentioned in the parish registers.
I'll leave you to it.
Good luck
Jean
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Sorry, but what's RC?
I have masses of info on this family, just not the right one to tie them, one to the other.
Brian
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I think if you get sidetracked at this stage it will be too confusing.
I can find at least 3 Thomas Fletchers on Ancestry born abt 1767. One has a wife Mary who is 7 years younger in 1851 Census.
One other marries an Esther abt 1838 and has a daughter Margaret when he is in his 70's ;D
The Mary Grindley, widow, who marries Thomas Fletcher could have been the wife of one of Elinors deceased siblings. But this all depends on how many Grindleys there were around in the area then.
Have a check of the Cheshire resources Brian and get back to this if you find anything.
Trish :)
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OK Thanks for that.
It's another good example f interesting information that begs more questions.
Brian
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Sorry, but what's RC?
I have masses of info on this family, just not the right one to tie them, one to the other.
Brian
Sorry Brian, didn't mean to confuse, I meant Rootschat resources at the top of the Cheshire page.
Sometimes a little lateral thinking pays off, you never know.
I'm sure you'll have a breakthrough soon.
Jean
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I worked out that RC must be Rootschat but still haven't figured out which resource you mean as can't sort by the word 'Fletcher', and if you do go to names it seems to lead to a page where the hyperlinks are only to the subscribers.
On the other hand, just googling Fletcher and Chester will bring any pages that are relevant.
Or do you mean finding someone who could find John Fletcher's obituary in a newspaper?
Brian
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Okay, click on the Cheshire Resources board. Then click on Update Cheshire Parish reg. JDGen.
Click on the blue link this leads to the site. You can then search through the parishes in Chester that have been transcribed.
Jean
Quick addition,Click on Database on the left menu.
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Thanks for that.
Actually, I know that site. Unfortunately, they still don't seem to have covered the areas where my Fletchers roamed because they don't show up.
Never mind, it made me explore that rootschat page that I've never done before
Brian
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Dear Brian,
I'm not a genalogist but - finding this entry on Google - I thought you might be interested to know a little bit more about John Fletcher and the Chester Chronicle. The Fletcher family has been associated with Chester since the Middle Ages. My recollection is that at least two of them were mayors of Chester. John Fletcher purchased the Chester Chronicle in 1783 fairly soon after the newspaper was started. The paper stayed in the family (or, by marriage, the Smith family) up until the 1960s when it was bought by Thomson. My mother was the last of the Fletcher line to sit on the board of the weekly paper. There was a book published in the 1960's "the Chronicle of Chester" which contains a photo of the painting of John Fletcher which is (or used to be) in Chester town hall. Your correspondent who mentions the site of the old Chester Chronicle offices is quite right it was in the town up for many years - strangely the printing presses were below the building within the outline of a roman building.
My father took an interest in the family, but I don't have the details now. What I can tell you is that they never strayed far from Chester so I would concentrate there.
Nigel
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Dear Nigel,
Thank you very much.
Unfortunately, we have now discovered that this particular John Fletcher was not originally from Chester, and that his father was a Thomas Fletcher from Halton. If he is part of the Fletchers of Chester main tree, we do not know where he should be attached, but for those who may be interested and may yet help, this John also had a brother, Thomas who married and Elizabeth (surname unknown) and had 3 children:
Martha (who married James Owen),
Thomas and Fletcher Fletcher.
He also had a sister, Alice, who married a Samuel Berrington.
So, unless you tell me diffenrently, I imagine you descend from one of them as John died without children as far as we know.
If you have any further detail, it would be interesting to hear.
Yours,
Brian
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I think you're right about John Fletcher being childless. On his death, the ownership of the Chronicle passed to John's nephew, Thomas, not to his own child.
Anyway, good luck finding Fletchers!
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Thanks, Nigel.
Below is his obituary in the Chester Chronicle from 9 Jan 1835
Brian
DEATH OF JOHN FLETCHER, ESQ.
We have this week the painful duty to announce the death of John Fletcher, Esq. who was for more than half a century the respected Proprietor of the Chester Chronicle. He departed this life on Wednesday morning, the 7th instant about six o’clock in the 80th year of his age. His frame, long attenuated by many years of severe bodily suffering was gradually wasted away by his inability to take any nutritious aliment; but his mental faculties continued unimpaired until within a few moments of his dissolution.
Born of humble, but reputable parents, at Halton, in this county, he was the architect of his own fortune, and rose, by the force of his genius and talent alone, to considerable eminence among scientific men, and to the distinguished honour of having twice filled the office of Chief Magistrate of this City. The history of his life is curious and instructive, and furnishes an important practical lesson of the value of Temperance, Prudence, persevering Industry, unsullied Probity, and uncompromising Integrity, in all his relations and Social Life. At present, while the grave has yet to close upon his mortal remains, it will suffice to say, that, in him, his servants of every degree and those who were in any way dependant upon him, have lost a liberal and considerate Master; his fellow citizens, an upright and intelligent Magistrate; the cause of Public and Private Charity, a Munificent Benefactor; and the Community among whom he lived, a kind-hearted and benevolent Man.
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Thanks for that, Brian. I haven't seen that before. They certainly knew how to layer it on thickly in those days! Just out of interest, "the scientific men" included his friend the engineer, Thomas Telford, with whom he worked on several projects in the area including the Pontcysyllte aqueduct and the link to the Chester canal which lead to the development of Ellesmere Port.
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Thanks, Nigel.
See attachment, which we presume is one and the same.
Yhere is also an article called Humble Pie about him that I only have on paper at the moment. If I get it digitalised I'll let you have it, though I'm not sure that wouldn't be a breach of copyright.
Brian
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Yep, that's the one. Interesting! Thanks Brian.
I would very much like to get hold of the Humble Pie article, if possible and you have time some day. As it happens, I'm a publisher myself - in the genes, I guess! - and I've been unable to track down the lady who published the article while doing her D.Phil. at St John's, Oxford and - as I'm in the US - it's unlikely I will be able to track down a copy of the book any time soon.
In any case, I think that sending me a copy would fall under Fair Use for copyright purposes, so if you did get time...
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Hi Nigel,
I've just phoned a friend who can do this. We'll do it this evening, so if you private me and send me your email, I'll send it to you tomorrow.
Yours,
Brian
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Hi There
I am a Newbie, and just come back from Chester Records Office today, to find that my ggg-grandmother Alice Eleanor Fletcher was a daughter of James Fletcher and Frances Taylor. I have some information about her if anyone would like to add to their Fletcher tree? Would be most interested to find out more about the Fletchers and will have a look at the posts on this Forum tomorrow!
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Dear all,
This particular one is a bit before the censuses started but you never know.
I am looking for facts about John Fletcher, printer, died a widower Jan 7 1835. [This made him 72 at the time of his death]
I can't find his wife, or discover the parentage of the relatives mentioned in his will.
- Alice Berrington. Sister
-Thomas Fletcher. Nephew
-Fletcher Fletcher. Nephew [On IGI I found a Fletcher Fletcher, born HALTON, CHESHIRE, Father Thomas Fletcher, mother Elizabeth, but nothing more]
-Martha Owen nee Fletcher. Niece. [Found marriage of a Martha Fletcher to James Owen 1780-1835 on 30 December 1819 at Runcorn; IGI does not mention fathers' names so not sure it's the right one]
The nephews and niece are of an unnamed, but deceased, brother.
Thanks in advance for anything.
Regards,
Brian
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Dear all, I am related to alice berrington, john fletcher sister. There is a photo and lots of info on John fletcher in the book "chronicle of chester" , the 200 years 1775/1975 . he bought the Chester chronicle when it was floundering and it is still in print today
This particular one is a bit before the censuses started but you never know.
I am looking for facts about John Fletcher, printer, died a widower Jan 7 1835. [This made him 72 at the time of his death]
I can't find his wife, or discover the parentage of the relatives mentioned in his will.
- Alice Berrington. Sister
-Thomas Fletcher. Nephew
-Fletcher Fletcher. Nephew [On IGI I found a Fletcher Fletcher, born HALTON, CHESHIRE, Father Thomas Fletcher, mother Elizabeth, but nothing more]
-Martha Owen nee Fletcher. Niece. [Found marriage of a Martha Fletcher to James Owen 1780-1835 on 30 December 1819 at Runcorn; IGI does not mention fathers' names so not sure it's the right one]
The nephews and niece are of an unnamed, but deceased, brother.
Thanks in advance for anything.
Regards,
Brian
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On attempting to follow the ancestral path I have come across your thread.
My family were apparently descendants of John fletcher from Chester.
We have both his and mary’s portraits hung up at my mothers home. (If they are the same people)
I appreciate this sounds rather far fetched but I think his daughter mary married a jones (common I know)
I’m hoping you have found more information to help us piece together the puzzles.
I look forward to hearing from you.