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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Bedfordshire Lookup Requests => Bedfordshire => England => Bedfordshire Completed Look ups => Topic started by: geniedi on Wednesday 05 May 04 09:57 BST (UK)
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Can anybody help with an 1851 index look up please for Bedfordshire.
I have an Ann and George Green.
Living in Clifton in 1841 both down as 40.
In 1851 can't see them in same area of Clifton, but two children were living with relations on poor relief.
I need to see whether either or both were still alive to narrow down my search and try and find death cert.
Thanks for any help
Diane
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Hi Diane,
Sorry it's been so long since you posted and no reply :(
Are you still looking for this family in 1851?
All the best,
Pam
;D
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Hi Pam,
I still haven't found them!!
They are my nemesis at the moment, think that the right word :)
Haven't located their deaths either, by cross checking ones found on the indexes with the family history online nothing seems to match with their ages.
I have had Clifton records checked and nothing.
So where did they go between 1841/51
Thanks for asking
Diane :)
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Have a look on the free BMD site [Biggleswade District]
Diane,
There is a death for George GREEN in the June quarter of 1847 [ref 6 47]...
But three deaths for Ann GREENs:
Dec quarter 1841 [6 36]
June quarter 1843 [6 40]
March quarter 1848 [6 61]
But you do not want to order all these death certs cos they wont all belong to your research.
cathy
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I've been through 1851 using keyword Bedfordshire for both. Nothing. Same for Ann using Hertfordshire as I suspect that's where she may have been from. Still nothing.
Nothing obvious by way of burials.
I assume William Kitchener in 1851 was her brother as the 2 Greens were his nephew and niece. He was born in Hinxworth according to the census and there's a baptism on the IGI that fits. Trouble is there's no baptism for Ann, and nothing that matches in Beds either using parents John and Ann who were William's assumed parents.
In 1841 she had her daughter Rhoda Lewinton staying with her. By 1851 Rhoda was married and living in Lambeth. No sign of any Greens though.
Did the witnesses at either of Ann's weddings provide any clues?
What was George's occupation at the baptisms of the 4 children? (Don't tell me - ag lab!)
Were the births of the last two children registered?
Have you found John after 1841? I couldn't see him.
Is there anything in either Arlesey or Clifton parish chest which might expand on the parish relief?
Virtually all of Beds pre 1812 has been extracted onto the IGI, and there's only one George Green baptism that looks remotely possible - 1802 in Meppershall. I can't see him in 1851 nor is there an obvious burial.
More questions than answers I'm afraid.
David
PS Re Cathy's post:
The Jun 1847 George was age 30 at Biggleswade. The three Anns were aged 80 at Southill; 16 at Campton, and 85 at Old Warden.
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Thanks David for ruling them out...nothing worse than going for certs that aint yours I would think.
cathy
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Thank you all for looking for me.
I believe Georges parents were John and Sarah Green.
The Meppershall connection is the one I'm going with. Family name of Warner seems to be the key.
Georges son William is my connection he had a son called Warner.
Georges parents I believe were John and Sarah Green. Sarahs father was William Green of Clifton, that may be the connection of them going there.
Georges father John had brothers, Warner, William who inherited their fathers mill and house in Shefford in 1810.
John was left £50!
In 1851 Samuel and Sarah Green are living with a Kitchiner relation in receipt of Parish relief.
Unfortunately the records do appear to be destroyed so no leads there.
My William is 16 in Gamlingay Cambs (1851), by 1859 he is marrying for the first time in London. I then have him on every census.
I believe (from memory) John Green 1861 is a baker in Highgate london. Many of the Green family including Samuel Green's children who I think may be Georges cousin?? Seem to have ended up in London.
So whatever happened to Geroge and Ann.
My mystery for now!!
Diane :)
ps Ann I beleive was born in Ampthill.
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Diane
There is a book called 'Samuel Whitbread's notebooks' [costs £6 but I dont have my copy anymore] which has a lot of info about the poor in that part of the County in the early 1810s - but it appears that the GREENs were not too poor then?
Younger sons did lose out a bit it seems...especially younger sons of younger sons. Although £50 wasnt to be sniffed at in 1810!
Do you have all the Wills etc? But they wont help you? You need Poor Relief [possibly some sort of hospitalisation or whatever existed in those days]...Biggleswade Union? Were they in the Biggleswade Workhouse 1851?
Keep an eye on the http://blars.adlibsoft.com/beginner/indnms.html
The KITCHENERs were fairly poor from what I have come across [but so was most of Bedfordshire it seems]
Another thought I had was that William GREEN may have been given an apprentiship via the Union [Poor Law Workhouse]. There may be a record for that but there is no reason it would mention parents?
archive@bedscc.gov.uk
cathy
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Hi Cathy
Thanks for your reply.
I think John was the eldest son, which makes it strange he was left £50.
He does appear to have married his cousin?? Maybe thats why??
It's a strange old family. :)
I will try the workhouse.
Williams uncles were millers for a while. Warner had a bakers according to directory entries.
I will have to get all the info out and do a timeline.
On the 1861 census in london William was described as a master baker.
As you say that may be worth looking into.
There does seem a conflict in that part of the family were definately pretty well off and George and Ann disappear leaving 2 children on poor relief.
Sometimes asks more questions than it answers!
Diane :)
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It's possible that as the eldest son, land had already been passed over to him outside the last will and testament. Hence he was only left a nominal sum in the will as he had already received his inheritance
Regards
David
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You have all got my thirst quenched again for this lot :)
I've a bit going on personally at the moment with my marriage break up.
This will be something to get my teeth into - again!!
I am hoping to get to Beds sometime soon.
I will get all the info out and read through it again.
I had tremendous help on here a while back by 2 marvellous members who got a lot of info from the RO for me. Really got me somewhere after a couple of years of going nowhere fast ???
Your input is much appreciated.
Diane :) :) :)
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Hello,
my great nan was Jenny Kitchener, her father was Herbert Kitchener,
Herbert Kitchener was born in Hinxworth and as far as i know his family go back around that area from the 1500's
to find out more,
email me on Email addy removed in accordance with RootsChat's privacy policy. Please use our secure personal messaging system to exchange private information.by the way im also related to the warners my nan was a warner,
Thanks again.
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Hi 008RJN,
I have a KITCHENER family in Flamstead, Herts. that I am trying to discover a little more on. These wouldn't be linked to your KITCHENER's would they ?
1901 Census
Valley Lane
George Kitchener Head 51 Coachman (Domstc) Hertford, Herts.
Ellen Kitchener Wife 41 Hampstead Hill, London
Annie Kitchener Dau 21 Regents Park, London
Louise Kitchener Dau 17 Regents Park, London
Frederick Kitchener Son 10 Chatham, Kent
Grace Kitchener Dau 6 Richmond, Surrey
Emily Kitchener Dau 5 Richmond, Surrey
George Kitchener Son 3 Richmond, Surrey
Constance Kitchener Dau 8 mths Flamstead
1891 Census – 2 Hampton Ter, Mortlake, Surrey
Mary A Kitchener Head M 46 Stepney
Annie Kitchener Dau 11 Scholar Regents Park
Nellie Kitchener Dau 9 Scholar Regents Park
Louisa M Kitchener Dau 7 Scholar Regents Park
Mary A Scoble Aunt S 77 Retired Laundress Haymarket, London
1891 Census – White Lodge Stables, Mortlake
George Kitchener Head M 42 Coachman Herts, Benington Park
Edwin Jackman Serv S 41 Groom Hants, Tedworth
Regards,
Simon