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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Angus (Forfarshire) => Topic started by: Stuart P on Wednesday 16 September 09 23:56 BST (UK)
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I am trying to find ancestors for Hercules Skinner who died in India ca 1803, father of James Skinner 1778-1841 who gained fame as the founder of the Indian regiment "Skinner's Horse". Hercules is mentioned on a couple of internet sources as the son of a Provost of Montrose. James' older brother was called David and younger brother was Robert.
I suspect that Hercules may not be the son of a provost but maybe a grandson. There was a birth of a Hercules in Aberdeen, 1750 to Robert Skinner and Elisabeth Ogilvie. This Robert was an Exciseman, therefore unlikely to be from Aberdeen.
Does anyone know about the Provosts of Montrose?
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Hi Stuart
It would be worthwhile you contacting the Angus Archives to see whether they have a list of Provosts for Montrose www.angus.gov.uk/history/archives/ You could also check whether they have anything in the Archives for this Skinner family.
There is reference showing for example: DAVID SKINNER, PROVOST OF MONTROSE IN 1744 http://nq.oxfordjournals.org/content/vol172/issue1/index.dtl
It is surprising how little there is on line about the family prior to James Skinner 1778-1841. I've checked the normal sources for family trees etc and nothing shows that links it all up. If I can give you some suggestions:
- If you have the names of Hercules' children in order of birth (you mentioned for example that son David was the eldest) I would if you look to Scottish naming pattern for clues on possible name for Hercules father.
- there is a small contingency of Skinners showing in Montrose. You could search the OPRs for clues although as you know these can be patchy and Hercules' actually entry may not show.
- IGI also has a number of entries for the family (batch codes for Montrose are C113125 for births and M113122 for marriages). You will see there are a number of possibilities there for Hercules births, parents, grandparents etc.
- I found this http://allenteenterprises.org/TEA.htm - a number of entries for the Skinners from Montrose.
- You can also find a number of Will & Testaments for Skinner on SP, if you search in "Brechin Commissary Court"
Monica :)
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Thanks for that Monica
I have now gone through the OPR births in Montrose, in which there are references to Provost David Skinner in 1714 , 1727-1730, and in 1738 "Prov. Skinner Sr & Jr". The records for 1727-30 are for Baillie David Skinner & Christian Coutts whose baptismal witness was Provost David Skinner (husband of Mary Ouchterloney).
It seems likely that the Angus Archives may have a lot more information, and that Episcopalian Records would be worth looking at.
If anyone is keen to get themselves connected to royalty, then James Skinner bpt. 27 Jul 1708 in Montrose to David S. and Mary Ouchterloney married Henrietta Howe - she is descended from the Bruce, and various other royal lines.
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Hi Stuart and Monica
It is good to note there is some serious research into family of Hercules Skinner as to many folk have taken as Gospel page 6 of David Holman’s 1961 book “Sikander Sahib” https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B9_fb118Vdb2dEhaNnJfVlFiU2c
The Author conjectures "is any truth in Skinner's romantic story of how his parents met" as "there is no indication of his [Hercules] unit until 1777". Might James have told a few more Porkies regarding the suicide of his mother?? Hercules 1803 will suggests mother and two younger daughter were then alive https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B9_fb118Vdb2S1o4azNGbWVjeFU
I believe Stuart that you are spot on about Hercules being child of Robert Skinner & Elizabeth Ogilvie – had he been born before 1750 he would not have been allowed to enroll as a cadet as 21 was the very outside age. The norn was 15
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B9_fb118Vdb2cExkYzVjZ05Ccmc and that Robert’s parents were David Skinner Snr. Provost of Montrose (1733-1735) and Mary Ouchterlony - their son David Skinner Jnr. Provost of Montrose (1739-1741 & 1743-1745[6?]).
Hercules’ Brother Captain James Skinner’s probate https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B9_fb118Vdb2QmxSQngzNmh0ZW8 took just on 13 years to be proved as cousin Ensign William Ann Skinner took will from Bengal via Jamaica to eldest brother David in Bordeaux but died in the meantime. James Skinner Baptism (One witness: James Ogilvie, Collector of His Majesty's Customs possibly? grandfather) https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B9_fb118Vdb2QWdoUWkyS1Q0V0U
I trust the links to my Google Drive are correct
Cheers
Peter
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Hi Peter
Welcome to RootsChat :)
Stuart will get an email of your post and hopefully be back online here soon.
Monica
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Hi Stuart, Monica and Peter,
I am a direct descendant of David Skinner, Provost of Montrose and I live in India in the Skinner’s family home in Mussoorie called Sikander Hall. The house was named after Col. James (Sikander) Skinner, born to Maj. Hercules Skinner and his Rajput wife, Jeany.
Someone had asked for details of Provosts of Montrose, so I’ve attached a page.
I have copies of all of James Skinner’s books, so if anyone needs any details about him, pls ask.
My mother, Sylvia Anne Mahindroo (born Skinner) was Col James Skinner’s great grand daughter. David Skinner (provost of Montrose 1733-44) was James Skinner’s grandfather.
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Welcome to RootsChat, Ashok :)
Good to have you on board. Others should get a notification of your post and hopefully post back.
Monica
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Hi Stuart, please go to my website and hopefully you should find the answers to your questions. Vest wishes, Mark Skinner
http://www.skinnerancestry.co.uk/india.html
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Hi again, to establish the connection between the Scottish Skinner branch and Col James Skinner's Anglo Indian branch I had to piece together three ancestral facts. Mark Skinner
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Hi again, a few years ago I was privileged to correspond a few times by email with Lillian Eva Skinner aged about 92 and living in Sikander House, Mussoorie. Sadly she has passed away since. Mark Skinner
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Do you know how the family of the Rev Laurence Skinner of Brechin fits in with your Skinners? The given name Hercules was used in that family too, and it's a pretty unusual name. Also there was a lot of coming and going between Montrose and Brechin, so it's very likely that there is a connection.
Rev Laurence S Sr graduated MA at St Andrews 1603, was admitted minister of Dunlappie in 1615 and translated to Navar about 1620. By his first wife, Katherine Thain, he had two sons, Rev Laurence S, who succeeded his father as min of Navar, and was later translated to Brechin, and Rev William S, min of Liff. He then married Eupham Cramond and had another son, Rev Hercules S, who succeeded his brother as min of Navar and was later translated to Fettercairn.
Rev Laurence S Jr married Margaret Guthrie, born 1630, a daughter of James G of Pitforthie and Janet Lyon, and had eight of a family born between 1653 and 1668, including Reverend John Skinner, who was one of the ministers of Brechin until deposed and ordered out of the parish in 1710 for failing to take the Oath of Allegiance according to Acts of Parliament, 1693 and 1695.
Rev Hercules S married Agnes Lyon and they had a son Hercules and a daughter Isobel. Agnes L was the daughter of Rev Patrick L and Isobel Cramond, whose father was Hercules Cramond.
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Afraid not. John Skinner of Conyngsyard, born 1636 and travelled up to St Andrews from Worcestershire and was the first one on my website to live in Scotland. Please see: http://www.skinnerancestry.co.uk/india.html