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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Buckinghamshire => Topic started by: McDouall on Monday 21 September 09 00:22 BST (UK)
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Hi everyone.
I am trying to find information on a WW2 home for boys, that was located on a private estate in Bourne End Bucks.
The home was known as the Homestead, official name I think was The Homestead hostel.
It housed evacuee boys during the war and until early 1947.
I was placed there from October 1945 until February 1947
According to authorities this home never existed?
I am trying to find out why?
Any help would be appreciated, I have 2 photo`s of the home and have been in contact with a man who grew up in Bourne End and remembers it, but authorities refuse to talk about the place.
regards Don McDouall
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Sorry Don searching all i can find when searching under numerous Guises is posts by YOU
so not sure where you can go next
i hope you don't mind me linking this as i think others would be very interested in your sad story,
any problems and i'll delete it ;)
http://pasttimesproject.co.uk/lsl_browse.php?subsite=ll&story=110
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thats OK mate.
I am open to any information, while i was there , there were about 12 to 15 boys there, I was the last to leave.
But during the war there could have been a lot more.
The matrons name was Mrs Memoriam, she had a niece staying there named Jean.who went to boarding school at Cookham.
The cooks name was Rene.
we went to school over the railway line, there was a bakers shop opposite.
I was actually warned not to proceed in looking up about this home by an official in Reading.
The official would not say yes or no, just that it was an offense on my part to inquire about this home.
regards Don Mcdouall
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The official would not say yes or no, just that it was an offense on my part to inquire about this home.
regards Don Mcdouall
Seem like a proper jobsworth :) You should have asked him under what law it was an offence, and what authority he had for saying this. There is the Freedom of Information Act. You could contact your local MP, or the local paper.
Stan
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yep seems as if someone ate the "i'm this weeks biggest nerd jobsworth this week book"
also may an idea to draft a letter for a solicitor to send on your behalf, asking for your records
may cost you a small fee for them to send, hence i said you draft it and get them to send on your behalf,
pretty sure that the only reason you wouldn't be able to see YOUR record is if was not in your best interest, but as that only really relates to a child then they have no case,
Might be more beneficial to you to also try and contact other boys that were there if you know there names? obviously as they would more than likely be living people you can't post there names on here,
reading your story and what happened to your Dad makes me wish there was more i could help with,
i hope other Roots members read your story and small chance they maybe able to help or at least acknowledge they have read it ;)
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Hello Don
I used to live in Bourne End and am assuming the hostel was on the Abbotsbrook Estate?
I am not sure where you have tried to get information from but have you tried the Centre for Buckinghamshire Studies? Also Bourne End has a community magazine called The Target. Maybe a letter to the Editor would be worthwhile?
http://www.bourneendbucks.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogcategory&id=19&Itemid=91
I will have a further look to see if I can find anything helpful.
Barbara
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Moving story! I do hope you can find out more. It sounds very fishy being 'warned off' would make me more determined!
Good luck,
Abiam
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Hi Barbara. Yes thats the estate.
In the past few years I have tried various methods and got 2 replies from men who remembered.
Got a reply from one boy who was there during the war,He now lives in New Zealand , but he declined to talk about it.
I now live in WA Australia.
I remember a few boys names but have search many times but never came up with anything.
I might try your suggestions.
Worth noting the home was shut down very quickly in early 1947
That was one year before that new law was passed in the UK Parliament, cannot remember what it was called but had a lot to do with child protection.
regards Don
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Hi Abiam
Fishy thats how I thought back about 1999.
Why hide it, if there was nothing to be ashamed of?
All I can say is the kids there when I was there 1945-47
Were not delinquents, they were kids in the main abandoned after the war.
Yet the place was run much like a prison.
Just a few examples:
You were not allowed pockets any that were in your clothes were sewn up.
Inside the home we spent all our time in one room, that contained a long trestle table with benches on each side no other furniture.
and never a fire
If you didn't eat your food it was dished up every mealtime until you did eat it.
In wintertime you wore the same clothes as summertime, never had any gloves.
You got belted for talking in bed after lights out.
For my part a very miserable place to be.
What has always annoyed me is the fact that no government department I contacted in the past would ever admit the place existed... crazy I know
Must admit I haven't tried since 1999.
regards Don
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Worth noting the home was shut down very quickly in early 1947
That was one year before that new law was passed in the UK Parliament, cannot remember what it was called but had a lot to do with child protection.
regards Don
The Children Act 1948 established a children's committee and a children's officer in each local authority. Under the 1948 Children Act, it became the duty of a local authority to 'receive the child into care' in cases of abuse or neglect.
See http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article4412917.ece
Stan
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Don - my mother was born in Bourne End, and lived there till she married my father in 1951. When I asked if she could remember a boys home there, she couldn't, but assumed it to be in one of the big houses on the Abbotsbrook Estate (as it appears is the case). Evacuees were quite a common sight in Bourne End at the time, and she's quite intrigued by the official silence. She offered to talk to her brother, who is a few years older, and was probably already working when you left and might possibly have been aware of it - might possibly even have delivered bread there - he worked at the bakery.
For background, can you remember the names of any of the other boys who were there with you? And Mrs Memoriam - how sure are you of the name (sorry, it has the ring of a character from a novel by Trollope!). Also, as a matter only of curiosity, with whom were you enquiring in Reading? I ask simply because, as Barbara has implied, Bourne End is in Bucks, and Reading in Berks. I go to the Centre for Buckinghamshire Studies quite frequently, and so could enquire to see if they have anything at all on the place.
GRAHAM
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hi Graham.
The matrons name may have been spelt differently?
All I can remember is the name sounded like that.
One [friend now] who remembers the place is Alan Ure, a few years older then I. grew up in Bourne End
He delivered groceries to the Homestead, on a bike.
It is sometime ago since I spent a lot of time chasing information.
Reading if I remember correctly was where i was steered to, Kids like us had nothing to do with Buckingham shire, we were under the control of the London county council.
A few boys names I remember were Stanis Osterly,Derek Yorke,Bert Black,
Arthur & Eric Shaffer... note the spelling might not be correct.
Possible they are in School records.
Later when I find it I will post a photo of the place.
A few years back someone sent me pictures, His father bought the house about 1948-50 & it was demolished about 1952-56.
The house was just over a bridge on the left, I think the brook/creek the bridge was over was man made; had a lot of trout in it ?
regards Don
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Thanks Don.
I'll see what I can discover in Aylesbury next time I'm over there, though I won't be going again until sometime next month, I'm afraid (was there this past Saturday - sorry!). However, I'll let you know if they appear to have anything, or not. Likewise, if my family can remember anything about the place.
GRAHAM
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Hi again Don
Do hope Graham can find something for you.
My searches of the A2A catalogue did not turn up anything unfortunately.
If there is nothing in Buckinghamshire I would suggesst you contact the London Metropolitan Archives as they should have records for places under the control of London CC.
Barbara
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Well Don: my mother's sister remembers the Homestead and the two Schafer boys.
The eldest was in her class at school. She (her name was Ruth Hodges) recalls
that they were fair, and a bit 'rough and scrappy'.
Her brother was at that time working for Spindlers the bakers, and will have been down at The Homestead sometimes in the van, delivering bread. Apparently, the place wasn't always too prompt paying ! Ruth asks if you remember the penny chocolate buns, which the kids took turns in sneaking over the road from school to buy at break time?
The Homestead was a big house directly behind what is now (and has been for many years) Bourne End Yacht Club. One way to reach it was to cross a humped-backed footbridge over a stream (I think this is what you're trying to describe - not sure if this was the Abbots Brook or not) which lead down the yacht club buildings and the river.
Haven't yet been in touch directly with my mother's brother, so I'll keep you posted.
Barbara has a good point about the London Metropolitan Archives by the way - if it was under the auspices of LCC, then it's less likely that Bucks Archives will have anything, if the County weren't involved.
GRAHAM
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hi Graham.
that would be Arthur Schafer your sister remembers.
Eric was about 10 yrs old when i knew them, might mention here not very well.
Such homes never bred intimate friendships.
My only friend there was Stanis Osterly, other then Derek Yorke & Bert Black who went to the Homestead from another home we were in,that was in Berkshire.
Where the House was, was just over the bridge your sister mentions.
At the rear of the house was a run down tennis court, beyond that a neglected orchard and beyond that again a boat house on the banks of a stream.
The place was very prone to flooding.
Re the buns yes i remember the shop opposite, not that I ever got a bun lol.
My main memory of that school is the Headmaster with his cane, he didn't like Homestead kids. On Friday evenings I worked in a butchers shop making sausages lol..
regards Don ps by the way I have tried posting an image but had no joy as yet... any clues how to do this? all i get is that I have already posted the picture, which I havent.
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Hi Don
I've never tried to attach anything myself, but in theory it's simple: hit 'Reply', then below the screen for your message, you click on the attachment link (a line of type in blue); that should bring up a panel enabling you to browse your computer to click onto whatever you wish to attach. But I'm sure this is what you were doing anyway! I'd suggest having another go later. Maybe the server was particulary busy? The site can be very slow at times - it's very slow right now.
GRAHAM
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by the way I have tried posting an image but had no joy as yet... any clues how to do this? all i get is that I have already posted the picture, which I havent.
There could be a picture with the same file name, all you need to do is try renaming the file you are attempting to attach.
Stan
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side view of the house known to me as the Homestead taken about 1950
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rear view of the homestead taken about 1950
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Thanks Don - got the pics, thanks. I'm too young to remember any part of this, of course; the house will have been demolished around the time I started school (not in Bourne End). My mother and her sister are both puzzled as to why your enquiries should have been met with the response they did. After all, the place and its occupants were far from being a secret in Bourne End, and local businesses both served the Homestead, and as it appears, employed some of the boys. And of course, you all went to school in the town!
GRAHAM
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hi Graham.
yes it is a mystery, but then again it was far from a nice place to have lived.
Back about 1997-9 I tried a lot to find anything there was to find but never except for the man who was living in NZ did I find anything.
My sister at that time was a researcher by profession and she came up with a blank as well.
2 men who lived in or near Bourne End during WW2 remembered the place.
But officially i drew a complete blank.
think about it!
The place was used by LCC for perhaps 5 years, surely there were records.
Before living there I was for a short time in a home in Berkshire.
When researching for a book I wrote i found plenty of evidence that ,that home existed.
I must admit it is much harder to chase up leads when living in Australia & it was a lot harder 10 years ago then it is now.
Looking back someone must have told me its official name was "The Homestead hostel" whereas I only knew it as the Homestead.
Thanks for your input
regards Don
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just for the record The Homestead in 1905
regards Don
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Don - there isn't anything specific to The Homestead under Bourne End in the Bucks Archives in Aylesbury. There is catalogued a lot of material relating to evacuees to Bucks in general, but this will take some time to go through to see if any of it touches on the place; it might very well be of a more
(to use the horrid officialese) 'overarching' nature.
GRAHAM
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Hi Don
It's been suggested above that the London Metropolitan Archives would be the location for LCC records. Have you followed up on that? Then there's the point about who you contacted in Reading. Who was that, and why when Reading is in Berkshire. From a brief look it appears that the LCC records contain a very large amount of information about evacuees and various properties LCC owned outwith London. For example, there's a reference to Craufurd College in Maidenhead being used . That's only a hop from Bourne End. Could it be possible that LCC facilities in that area were managed from one location and the records kept together under a description other than Homestead. Just a thought. If the records were destroyed as part for some reason then a list was probably kept of such records. Then you mention you were in Berkshire at one point. Where was that? Perhaps there is a Rootschatter who is familiar with the LMA and would have a look for you. It might be necessary to start a new thread for that.
Imber
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G`Day Graham,
thank you for that snippet of information, About all I can hope is someone else who was there comes forward, but at this late stage in ones life, that might not be as easy as it sounds, regards Don
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Hi Imber.
It has been about 10 or so years since I spent a lot of time researching The Homestead hostel.
Cannot remember why I was directed to Reading.
The home I was in was called PoundCroft. A fine building that is still called PoundCroft, situated in the village of East Hanney Oxfordshire, but was in Berkshire then {1945}
Prior to being placed in this home {July 1945}I was billeted with a family in the same village as an evacuee from September 1939 until July 1945.
The home Poundcroft was closed in October 1945 & I with two other boys being the last boys there, were then taken to The Homestead in Buckinghamshire.
I think I have mentioned That the homestead home was shut down in March or April 1947... I was the last boy there.
I then went back to live in foster care in East Hanney.
Came to Australia in 1952.
So all I can do now is hope there is someone who knows more then I about the Homestead.
regards Don
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Hi,
I have been reading your comments about the home at Bourne End and I believe that a cousin of mine might have been at that home from at least 1941 to possibly 1947. I only have one photo of him taken in 1941 stating that it was taken at aylesbury. Looking at the photos of the Homestead it looks as though the photo was taken there.
He was evacuated from Putney that is all I know. His mother went abroad without him and no one in the family knows what has happend to him. Can you help. His name is Raymond and he would have been 3-4 in 1941 so approx 8-9yrs old when you where there in 1945. I understand that he suffered with asthma. Like you I have had little information about the evacuees when I visited Aylesbury records office.
Any information would help. Many Thanks
Carol
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Hi Carol.
nice to hear from you.
Sadly I cannot remember many kids that were with me, at the Homestead in 1945.
There were about twenty to thirty then, but most had left by mid 1946.
If you would like to send me a copy of the photograph you have, or perhaps post it here? don.mcdouall@gmail.com
I might reckonise Raymond, or at least tell you if the photo was taken at the Homestead.
The aftermath of war lead people to do strange things.
Raymonds mother may have thought he was deceased?
Or had been sent abroad as so many unwanted (by the government of the day) children were.
One cannot judge with so much trauma that was a part of so many lives at that time.
Re: the asthma thing, in those days it was referred to at the home as cartahh problems, most of us had block up noses; I know I did.
Who knows someone one day reading this might be able to shine more light
regards Don McDouall
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Since I last contributed to this discussion in October I have discovered that my great aunt used to work at The Homestead! Unfortunately that is all I know as she died a few years ago. I still think that there may be information in the LCC records held in the London Metropolitan Archives.
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Hi Graham.
Many thanks for responding so quickly. I have attached the photograph of Raymond, although it was taken in 1941 when he was quite small, I would appreciate your opinion as to whether you think the background is the same as an area at the Homestead. It just might give me a starting point the start the research again. Until reading and seeing your photo of the home I really did not know where to start as Aylesbury seem to have no info about the evacuees.
Thanks for all your help. If I manage to find info about Homestead I will post it on here.
Thanks once again
Regards Carol
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Hi Carol
the back ground in your photo.
looks very much like the veranda rails at the rear of the house.
This house was very prone to flooding and so for that reason was raised up off the ground.
In your pick on wooden stumps.
In my time I thought it was on brick?
But then again under the house , at the rear was fenced off with wooden lattice.
I remember this because us kids were curious as to what was behind.
There were steps (most likely concrete) leading up onto the verandah & the first room you entered was the room us boys spent most of our time in.
If you look at the photo of the house at the rear (note this was taken about 1950, 3 yrs after it was closed) The middle bay window led to the room where I slept.
The French windows (in front a drain grate) led to the Games room which most times was out of bounds & between it and the verandah (the blank wall) was the matrons quarters her window faced the road in front of the house.
Sorry but I cannot reckonise Raymond, he looks about 3 or 4 yrs old at that time so most likely was gone when I first went there (october 1945)
Cheers Don
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Hi Imber.
When I was living there (october1945-March 1947)
I can remember only the two staff.
The matron was married, she had a house or was living after the home closed down, somewhere in Ealing Broadway? Was around 40 to 55 yrs of age in 1947.
She had a gammy leg , one leg shorter then the other; wore a shoe/boot with a thick sole.
Wore glasses. cut her hair in what I think was called the Eaton style (short like a man) Had a niece called Jean who was living at the homestead and went to school in Cookham.Drove a small black car most likely a ford ten.
Her name was Merriman or Mormenion or Memorium something like that
The other staff member was about 26 to 40 years of age, had black hair & was of Mediterranean appearance.
She was the cook as I remember her, Her name was Reen, or Rheen we called her Reen or Reenee
Boys were rostered off to work with her in the kitchen.
Of course prior to me going there , the place would have had a lot more boys.
& most likely a lot more staff.
Then again us boys did most of the work lol... wasnt really funny though cleaning 30 shoes or more before breakfast; my first chore on staying there.
cheers Don
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Hi
I think my Great Aunt, who was from Maidenhead, was there between the wars. She would have been on the domestic staff I think and may have reported to someone called Mrs Scott. That's all I know.
Imber
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My Grandmother Mrs. Helen Membury ran Homestead School in Bourne End, my mother Jean Gorham is the niece people in this email chain are recalling. Mrs Membury died 15 years ago but my mother is still alive and well and living in Suffolk.
We have many pictures of the Homestead School which my grandmother remembered with great affection. I believe the school cook may have been Grace Higgs for a period of time who did have a Mediterranean appearance, she was assisted by Mrs Membury's sister for a period who may have been called Rene.
My grandmother was employed as Matron by the government, the school was set up to care for boys who came from a disadvantaged background (largely from the East end )where it was felt that placement of that child with a "rural" family may have led to child control difficulties. This maybe why your official would not divulge information as this could be deemed sensitive and may have been classified as secret.
Funding for the home was limited and so the children were expected to assist with chores. My grandmother did tell us that the boys at the home were not generally appreciated by local village grandees, they generally did not like normal boyish behavior considered normal by the rest of us.
I laughed when I heard your description of my grandmother, the short hair and gammy leg were her signature, she walked with a hop! She received a medal for her work at the Homestead, the school closed at the end of the war with the repatriation of children back to their parents. Essentially the school had outlived it's intended purpose, nothing sinister.
I am sure my mother would love to talk to any of the old boys! Does anyone know what happened to Jim Adams?
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G`Day.
At last we have someone who gets the name right lol.
Of course it is a long time ago and I was there only a few very long months (about October1945 to April 1947)
Great to hear Jean is still with us;she most likely would not remember me, but may recall a good friend of mine at that time.
A blond lad about 13 yrs old in 1946 named Stanis Osterly.one of his chores was rubbish burning, something I enjoyed doing with him.
I remember Jean very well, perhaps being the only girl in the place lol.
Jean would have been about 14 yrs old 1946 I was 12.
Did she tell you she had a boy friend in the village?
I think she may have stayed at boarding school during the week?
It would be unrealistic to say most boys there in my time were happy there.
I know I wasn't
It was a grim place to grow up in.
The picture I got from my stay was it was more a place to dump unwanted kids
after the war. May have been entirely different while the war was on?
In looking back most kids were marking time, waiting to be claimed.
During the war I was an evacuee billeted with a family.
a few weeks after wars end I was moved to a home in the same village, here I was joined by two other boys Derek Yorke & Berty Black, both had been evacuees.
All three of us were moved a few weeks later to The Homestead.
By 1946 both had be claimed.
I was the last boy there & went back to the family I was billeted with during the war, as I was never claimed.
According to a chap who kindly sent me photographs of the place, his family bought the house sometime around 1950 , soon after it was demolished.
I do know that most likely sometime in 1947-48 Mrs Membury invited me along with other boys to her home in Ealing? ( I think)
Remember going there for a few days.
I would love to see any photo`s you may have with boys there.
Give this poem to Jean it might help her have a laugh.
"we are the Homestead boys!We make a lot of the noise.
We know our manners, we spend our tanners. We are respected whereever we go.
When we`re walking down the Broadway line; doors and windows open wide.
You should hear the Sargent shout "Put that bloody woodbine out" We are the Homestead boys.
Cheers & have a good Year Don McDouall
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Dear Don
Pleased to be of help. I am sure that this must have been a traumatic time for you and it could not have been easy seeing your friends return to normal home life while you remained behind waiting to be claimed. No school environment can substitute for a happy home but it is good to see you were finally cared for by the first family you were billeted with.
I will certainly pass on your poem to my mother.
After my Grandmother left Homestead Jean did stay with a family in Bourne end (in order to complete her education) however she did not go to boarding school nor was she schooled in Cookham, her home like yours was Homestead.
After the war the home reverted to private ownership so we do not really know what happened to the unclaimed children at this time. My grandmother did live in Ealing. I mentioned your name to Jean however she does not recollect you or Stanis I am afraid.
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Dear Denyer-s
Strange it is how ones memory plays tricks.
Wonder why I have always remembered Cookham as where the School was Jean attended?
Cannot ever remember her going to or from school?
We went to the School right in Bourne End itself.the Homestead was not a school 1945-47
a shop that sold buns opposite it.
On Fridays it was woodwork class & the school for this was somewhere the other side of Loudwater.
I detested woodwork so most times never attended, instead played on chalk hills, got covered in chalk so possibly got a hiding when I returned home.
Its worth noting that corporal punishment was the norm at that time... The cane or ruler at school; The belt & cane in the home.
I guess it was required to keep a mob of unruly boys inline.
and we were unruly at times...
I remember with others breaking into launches tied up on the river bank & throwing what was most likely expensive stuff into the river,
Then a common pastime was to try to derail the Marlow Donkey... Thankfully we never succeeded.
Sadly most of us there knew we were unwanted so to speak, so our antics reflected this.
Jean might remember her aunt bred dogs; spaniels I think.She might also remember the small island not far from the back veranda & most likely the smelly cesspit alongside.
On Friday`s I worked in a butchers shop making sausages, Stanis worked in the Chemist shop.
some of the matrons rules were strict...
One was we couldnt put our hands in our trouser pockets, they were sewn up.
Then after church on Sunday we had to drink Cenna pods...So spent very painful moments on the toilet seat the rest of the day.
I wrote a few years back some notes on living at the Homestead.
If Jean would like them I could send by email... providing of course there is an email address, we could compare notes so to speak.
For sure some of my memory is distorted, I was just 11 yrs old when I went there and 12 1/2 yrs old when I left..
I would also like to see some of the photo`s if possible.
I live in WA Australia so there is no chance I could pop over.
I would say Reene was the matrons sister, there was no one else there while I was.
cheers Don McDouall
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Don,
I work for the Maidenhead Advertiser, which covers Bourne End.
I've been reading the thread and it sounds like an interesting story.
Would you be interested in speaking to me and putting together an article on this?
It might help trigger a few memories among locals and get you some more information.
Let me know if you are.
Regards,
John
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Hi John
that sounds as if it could be interesting?
Give me an email address , perhaps also outline your ideas
regards Don
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Send me an email to (*) and I'll send you some ideas.
Regards,
John
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Hello to everyone
I'm trying to find anyone who lived at Homestead Bourne End ...unsure of when....who may remember my neighbour
His name is Alfred Chaplain
He took a trip to the site last week...but alas it now has private housing on the land !!
He would be so pleased if someone remembered him
Look forward to hearing back
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Hello to everyone
I'm trying to find anyone who lived at Homestead Bourne End ...unsure of when....who may remember my neighbour
His name is Alfred Chaplain
He took a trip to the site last week...but alas it now has private housing on the land !!
He would be so pleased if someone remembered him
Look forward to hearing back
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Hi A bit late as they say , but I haven't been back here for a long time...
The house the Homestead was demolished by the owner about 1953... his son sent me a few photos of the place before it was knocked down I will try to find and post them here later... I didn't know Alfred Chaplain... Then again I moved there in 1945 and left in early 1947 so most boys by then had gone... I mentioned much earlier on this site that a good childhood friend of mine there was a boy Stanis Osterly... Shows how clever this net is! Stanis`s son contacted me about 2 years back telling me his father lived in Sydney... Well I met up with him about 1 yr back when he came to Perth WA ... just shows what a small world this really is ... cheers to all Don McDouall