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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Breconshire => Wales => Breconshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Bona on Friday 25 September 09 21:39 BST (UK)
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Caroline Emily Farr Born 1880-1882. Died in New Zealand in 1940.
I have noticed there are Farr's in the Breconshire area.
Can someone please look on the census 1891 to see if she and her family are there. She had a sister named Rebecca Emma who may have been older than her.
Any other suggestions welcome.
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Just checking - was Farr her maiden name and not her married name?
If so - Is her birthplace/parents details not shown on her death cert?
The only Caroline Emily Farr born in England/Wales was in 1868 in Lincolnshire and there is no birth at all for a Rebecca Emma Farr
Did she marry in NZ - the only Caroline Emily Farr marriage was in 1888 in England. Her marriage cert should give some parent details
Have you checked the 1881 census at www.familysearch.org? The only Caroline Farr near to an 1880/82 birthyear was b 1878 Cardiff Glamorgan but did not have a sister Rebecca. Her birth reg shows her just as Caroline - no Emily
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and the only rebecca farr i can see born in wales between 1870-1899 was regd in the 3rd qtr of 1891 and that was in pontypridd dist of glamorganshire
this rebecca is down as a neice in 1901 visiting james and martha rogers in pontypridd
i believe she might have married a henry dark in 1912 in pontypridd
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Thanks for your replies everyone!
Believe Caroline Emily came to NZ with her family sometime before 1901 when she was married to Henry Desmond Geach Grattan.
Have not got the death cert yet, in the pipeline.
Yes I have seen the records you have mentioned.
Breconshire is a stab in the dark I guess ,as the death cert will most likely only site country of birth.The online record on NZ BMD Says she died aged 59 yrs .
Is Farr a common name all over Wales or is it specific to certain areas.
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Believe Caroline Emily came to NZ with her family sometime before 1901 when she was married to Henry Desmond Geach Grattan
If she married in NZ in 1901 - won't her marriage cert give her parentage?
Have you checked when she arrived in NZ and where she sailed from?
Is Farr a common name all over Wales or is it specific to certain areas.
Just taking the 1901 census as an example
1901 for Wales has 434 entries for the surname Farr of which only 266 were born in Wales
The highest concentration of the surname was in Glamorgan 112 and Monmouthshire 111. Only 36 were in Breconshire
The 1901 for England has 4,726 entries for the surname Farr
The 1901 for Scotland has 93 entries of which only 61 were born in Scotland
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Hi Carole,
Thanks for that info, it will help nail down a location to start looking in.It looks like Glamorgan and Monmouthshire are the places to start.
Is Farr actually a Welsh name?
Bye for now Bona
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Is Farr actually a Welsh name?
Looking at the figures I gave above - I very much doubt it
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I have Farrs in my ancestry from Herefordshire...married in Hay-on-Wye..moved back and forth between Hereford and Radnorshire. Married into the Lovett family near Clyro and Llandbedr Painscastle...
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Waiting on death and marriage certs to establish place of birth and other names in family e.g mother' s maiden name. I will keep you posted .
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Caroline emily Farr was born in Opua bay of Islands New Zealand on the 14/8/1881 her father was Alfred Elias Farr he was born in Bethnal green abt 1838-died 1893. New zealand
Caroline married Henry Geach Desmond grattan 24/7/1901 his parents were James Henry Grattan & bona Grattan (nee crago)
Alfred,s parents were Elias savill farr & Mary Farr (nee Peters) they were married 16/10/1834 St Leonards Streatham surry England
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Katmon,
Thanks so much for such great info!
Did you research or do you have a family connection??
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My husband is the grandson of Caroline Emily Grattan (nee Farr) & Henry Grattan
She had a Sister called Mary Ellen Farr who married a Charlie Goulton he is my husband,s grandfather the two lines merged here
Bona Grattan (Crago),s Family came from Cornwell i have a direct line through her back to 1625.
yes my wife dose the family Genealogy.
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How amazing!!
My husband's g. grandfather was James Henry Vashti Grattan married to Bona Crago !! Mike's father was William Lockley Grattan, he was the youngest son of Caroline Emily Farr and Henry Grattan. So Mike and your husband must be cousins.
Mike always thought the Farrs were Welsh.Can you shed any light on the origins of the Grattans?
Are you in New Zealand?
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Hi Bona I know who mike is now his father William (Bill) is my husband Don,s father Harry they were brothers so Mike & Don are first cousins.
here is the list of all the Aunts & Uncle starting with the eldest
Harry 1901-1988 Don,s father.
eileen 1903-1971
Ernest Desmond 1904-
Frank Geoffery 1910-1980
Owen Talbert 1912-1968
Jassie Caroline 1914-1990
James Alferd 1916-1984
Robert Edwin 1919-1930
William Lockley 1920-1987 Mike,s father.
Leonard Nelson 1922- 1935
Nellie Isabel Mable 1924-1983.
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Yes we live in New Zealand is there a way to get in touch ether E-mail or phone
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yes , Can't put that info on here but look at online white pages MJ & RY Grattan
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Katmon , how are you related to the Crago's? Do you know where Bona 's husband James was born????
Bona
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HI Katmon & Bona,
I too am connected to this Farr family, Elias Savill Farr and Mary Peters had amongst your Alfred & other children, James Melanthon Savill Farr b1841 Bethnal Green. Would be happy to share Farr family information. :D
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Hi Madaz,
How amazing!!
Would love to hear the Farr family information.Can you send me a private message!!
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Hi Bona,
Would love to send you info etc but as I am a new member I can't pm you yet, need to have 3 posts apparently, so will work on that and then send you a message!
Cheers
M
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Hi there!
I'm just delving into my family history and I too am related to this line - my great grandmother is Mary Ellen Farr who married Charles Goulton. Hazel Goulton daughter or Charles and Mary Ellen was my grandmother and she married Archie Fry - I am daughter to their youngest daughter Gwenda Winifred Fry. I would love any information or tips on where to go or if you have it already when exactly Mary Ellen was born (I just have a year and place - Waikato in about 1869) and more specific information on her and more information pertaining to the line from Alfred Elias Farr - his parents etc etc. :)
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Hi again - I've since read the thread a bit more thoroughly so got Alfred's parents details from there. I'm so interested to know of any more information you may have going further back. I have very little to share as of yet but am happy to do so when and if I find information that is of value that you don't already have :)
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Hi Madaz,
Looking forward to hearing from you?? Tillie-NZ, another family member is interested in the info we may be able to share with each other.
Regards Bona
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I have since found that there may be a discrepancy between the Alfred Elias Farr but seemingly same names?! - the one I am related to was born in Stackness Scotland in about 1841 and married Frances Isabella Connell Lockley. I found this information out on the Cambridge Museum Website. They were father and mother to Mary Ellen Farr who married Charles Goulton on 2 January 1894. I can see how this can get somewhat confusing!!
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Hi Bona & Tillie-NZ,
Bona.......I know, I am terribly slack, I see that I can pm you so I will, very soon!!
Tillie-NZ......I have some information regarding the discrepancy between Alfred Elias Farr and his birthplace, It doesn't help prove his birthplace, just adds to the mystery. I'll pm you too!
Cheers
Madaz
Australia
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Oh goodness the plot thickens :) This is fascinating. I think I'm an addict already. Looking forward to seeing your info!!
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sounds interesting. My husband's father's middle name was Lockley. His mother was Mary Ellen's sister Caroline Emily
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Hi Tillie.
Your Alfred is definitely our Alfred. You have a family connection with Katmon too, if you read her post carefully regarding the Goulton link.Harry Grattan married Frances Caroline Myrtle Goulton in 1922.Her sister Hazel Mary Goulton was your grandmother?
Katmon has established that Alfred was born in Bethnal Green and there is a probability that the family moved to Kent at some stage.
At this stage it is hard to say why Alfred would say he was from Scotland.It may have been an error on the part of registrar or sometimes our ancestors just made up things for some reason that was important to them at the time '
Frances Isabella Connell Lockley's parents were Elizabeth Connell and William Lockley married in 1852. Elizabeth's father was Basil Connell and William father was John Lockley. Thanks to Katmon for this info!!
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Found this on someones family tree page:
William LOCKLEY + Elizabeth CONNELL - Cambridge, Waikato
by ngairedith 9 months, 1 week ago
William LOCKLEY
William was born about 1821 in Rhode Island USA, son of John a gamekeeper, and as a young man worked in a Birmingham cutlery factory. He enlisted as a regular soldier in the 65th Regiment and served in the Crimea and India. He came to New Zealand about 1858 and he married Elizabeth Connell (who had a daughter Fanny) in 1860. They then had nine children - Isabella, Henry, Jack, Basil, Caroline, Alice, Ellen, Mary and David.
William enlisted in the 3rd Waikato Militia on 23 November 1863 in Nelson. His Regiment Number was Private 945 and occupation a soldier.
They farmed on the Hamilton Road bordering the Town's Green Belt and later lived in Bowen Street. From 1870 to 1888 William's occupation was listed as a sawyer and he died 31 May 1890.
William LOCKLEY married Elizabeth CONNELL in 1852
their children were:
18.. - Isabella Lockley
- Isabella married Robert FERGUSON in 1880
1860 - 1926 Henry Lockley
- Henry married Elizabeth FERGUSSON in 1882
18.. - Jack Lockley
1865 - 1939 Basil Lockley
- Basil married Mary DAVITT in 1892
18.. - Caroline Locley
- Caroline married Joseph McMILLAN in 1888
18.. - Alice Lockley
18.. - Ellen Lockley
- Ellen married Daniel SKELLY in 1875
18.. - Mary Lockley
- Mary married James COLLINS in 1871
1873 - 1921 David Lockley
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Found this on someones family tree page:
William LOCKLEY + Elizabeth CONNELL - Cambridge, Waikato
by ngairedith 9 months, 1 week ago
William LOCKLEY
William was born about 1821 in Rhode Island USA, son of John a gamekeeper, and as a young man worked in a Birmingham cutlery factory. He enlisted as a regular soldier in the 65th Regiment and served in the Crimea and India. He came to New Zealand about 1858 and he married Elizabeth Connell (who had a daughter Fanny) in 1860. They then had nine children - Isabella, Henry, Jack, Basil, Caroline, Alice, Ellen, Mary and David.
William enlisted in the 3rd Waikato Militia on 23 November 1863 in Nelson. His Regiment Number was Private 945 and occupation a soldier.
They farmed on the Hamilton Road bordering the Town's Green Belt and later lived in Bowen Street. From 1870 to 1888 William's occupation was listed as a sawyer and he died 31 May 1890.
William LOCKLEY married Elizabeth CONNELL in 1852
their children were:
18.. - Isabella Lockley
- Isabella married Robert FERGUSON in 1880
1860 - 1926 Henry Lockley
- Henry married Elizabeth FERGUSSON in 1882
18.. - Jack Lockley
1865 - 1939 Basil Lockley
- Basil married Mary DAVITT in 1892
18.. - Caroline Locley
- Caroline married Joseph McMILLAN in 1888
18.. - Alice Lockley
18.. - Ellen Lockley
- Ellen married Daniel SKELLY in 1875
18.. - Mary Lockley
- Mary married James COLLINS in 1871
1873 - 1921 David Lockley
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Hi
My maiden name is Lockley and my ancestor is William Lockley and Elizabeth Connell from Cambridge. I come from Henry Lockley their son. I have got William's death cert from NZBMD. He was born near Birmingham, England not Rhode Island USA as the Cambridge Museum says. There are afew mistakes on it. I also have Elizabeth Lockley's Death cert as well and marriage cert. I also have worked out she is the daughter of Basil and Mary Connell, they arrived on the Bombay into Nelson on 1842. Have them on the 1841 census in Whitehaven, Cumberland, England. I live in New Plymouth, New Zealand and am totally hooked on family trees.
Regards
Jillian
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Hi Jillian,
Welcome to the Lockley,Connell, Farr family topic, not to forget the other names mentioned.
How amazing! Just one post to find info about my husband's g.grandmother and look what's happened! Family member's from all over the country adding to the vital family history.
Please tell us about your line from William and Elizabeth Connell and any other info you would like to share.Mike's father was named after William Lockley.
Kind regards
Rosanna
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Hi Rosanna
I come from Henry Lockley son of William and Elizabeth. He married Elizabeth Ferguson. They came to South Taranaki to farm and brought up 12 children.
Their son Henry Edward Lockley and Jessie Millar were my Great Great Grandparents. Their son Gordon Lockley was my grandfather (Waitara, Taranaki). His son is Graeme Lockley my father. We do come from an very large family. Have you checked out www.myrasplace.net for the Lockley/Ferguson family tree, that is where I got most of my stuff from as Clive Ferguson has done alot of work on it. Alot of the stuff on the Cambridge Musuem site is mostly correct but there are errors on it. I have found the graves of William and Elizabeth Lockley buried at Hautapu cemetery Cambridge. There are no headstones but I have taken photos of where the site is. Got infor from the ladies at the Cambridge musuem, cemetery plans. Don't have much family infor on the other children of William and Elizabeth Lockley.
Are you able to help me?
Kind Regards
Jillian
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Hi Jillian,
Can please you give me the exact date of Elizabeth and William's marriage. I believe it was about 1852. Their daughter Frances Isabella Connell Lockley, born about one year before their marriage.In 1867 she married Alfred Elias Farr. Their daughter Caroline Emily Farr married Henry Grattan, who became my husband's grandparents.Can you tell me when your 1st Henry Lockley was born please? Two of William and Elizabeth's children were Sarah Helen 1858 and Eliza Alice 1875. I think there were about 13 in total. Katmon gave me the list.I will look for it tomorrow.
Was your g.grandmother Jessie Ellen Anderson Miller. If so they were married in 1905 and some of their children were 1906 Jessie Agnes,1907 Henry James,1908 David William, 1910 Marjorie Evelyn,1912 Ruby Ellen.You probably know all that already!The whole family seems to be huge!!I can't believe how many children they all had back then!Mike father was one of 11.
Had a look at the site but seems to be down at the moment.
Kind regards Rosanna
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hi
Try www.myrasplace.net/ferguson/fam00298.htm
I just went into it and it worked.
Married 25 June 1852 William and Elizabeth
I believe she was a child out of wedlock to elizabeth ? not sure the father
william or someone else. Have not being able to find the birth cert. In fact most of the childrens births certs missing from the NZBMD>>>>>>>>>>
9 June 1860 was Henry's birth date - one of the few certs for the kids
I have only being able to work out eleven children - two of which are buried at cambridge with their parents. Can you please send me the new list. thks
Jessie and Henry Edward married in 7 June 1905. she lived to 100 years. met her several times when I was younger, wish I was doing this back then to ask her lots of questions.
Both my grandparents have recently died too.
I have not being able to find Caroline Emily Farr's birth on NZBMD under what name is it reg ?
Had a look at the english census for Alfred Elias Farr too. He must of sailed to nz between 1851 and 1868 which he is listed in a NZ paper for land ballot.
Kind Regards
Jillian Bellringer
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hi
where do you live. I am in New Plymouth, NZ
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Hi there, I have been following your posts with interest. I have a very elusive convict ancestor named Robert Lockley. I am in Australia. Robert was born in Tamworth England in 1825 but his family lived in Birmingham. He had family mother Eliza and brothers John (previously transported) b 1823, Thomas and David b 1828 still in Birmingham and brother William a common soldier in the 65th Regiment. I don't know the birthdate of William or Thomas. I have found Eliza with David on the UK 1841 census and there is no father in the household.
I have never found a trace of this William Lockley of the 65th Regiment, I though maybe he'd died. He did not come to Australia and he is not in England anywhere.
Is it at all possible that your William Lockley is my missing William Lockley?
Irene in Australia
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Hi larzus
Yes I think our William's are one and the same. The facts are very close not to be. That's great!! How did you know your William was in the 65th regiment? I have look at the 1841 census and there is another John listed on it with Eliza and David - John born 1826? My William was with the 65th Regiment but unable to find on which ship he came to NZ on, it would have to been before 1852 as that is when he married Elizabeth Connell in Wellington. I think he was stationed in Wellington for awhile before leaving the army and moving to Nelson where she came from as my g-g-greatfather Henry was born there. They moved to Cambridge, Waikato where more children were born - joined up with the 3rd Waikato Regiment and was a sawyer after that. His death is noted in the Papers Past - Northern Acvocate dated 7 June 1890 that will help you prove that.
I saw John listed under the convict site but not Robert ( is his last name spelt diff)?
Are we able to talk more through email instead?
Kind Regards
Jillian
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Hi all,
Robert's convict record gives his brother William as being in the 65th Regiment. No, the spelling is not different. He can be found either at the Founders and Survivors site foundersandsurvivors.org/pubsearch (search Robert Lockley) or through the Tasmanian archives portal. John Lockley arrived 28 Nov 1842 on the Moffatt (3rd journey) and Robert arrived 26 Dec 1844 on the Sir Robert Peel.
John's record also states a sister Elizabeth.
The 1841 census was taken just two months before John committed his crime. I am guessing the census rounding effect has altered the year of his birth. I have not found any record of his marrying in Tasmania, though he died in Tassie in the 1870s so perhaps he fathered some unidentified children? The Lockleys were somewhat prolific, seems odd that he doesn't have a whole brood.
Robert married Catherine Hingely a mystery woman whom noone has managed to locate records for. They had 13 children, most of whom lived to have their own 10-15 children.
I don't know where Robert was at census time, there are a couple of options. Also a few options for mother Eliza in the 1851 census which gives birthplace, very frustrating. I was hoping William's attestation papers might clear the matter up. Do they exist?
My email address is* I am happy to be contacted that way.
Irene
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Hi Jillian
I have just worked out the connection today with Elizabeth Connell and William Lockley and see you have come to the same conclusions.
I'm coming in on this forum on the CONNELL side of the tree with connections with the LEGGETT's in NZ and Aust.
The tree I am working on for a friend makes Elizabeth CONNELL nee Lockley his GG Aunt.
All of my tree I have been working on is under LEGGETT Family Tree on Ancestry.com.au
'Basil' is a common christian name on all sides of the tree.
Haven't worked out yet where Basil CONNELL her father died or is buried. Her Mother is Mary WOOD and I think she died in 1860
Motueka, Nelson, New Zealand
Cemetery:Pioneer Motueka (Closed) Aged 49 YRS http://www.tasman.govt.nz/services/cemeteries/cemetery-records-search/?uid=17573
Regards Rick
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Hi Rick
Yes she died 26th August 1860 at Motueka, and he died at Nelson 17th March 1851 aged 39 years (Basil Connel) got these from Papers Past site.
Don't know where he is buried?
Kind Regards
Jillian
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Hi, been reading along this thread for a while now and frantically getting down all the juicy info :P. I think it's about time I showed myself. Jillian, you would be my 3rd cousin 1Xremoved, and I am no doubt related to Bona & Tilli and most of you along the line. My great grandmother was Caroline Emily Lockley, daughter of William & Elizabeth. She married Joseph Mcmillan in Auckland in 1888. My grandmother was Louise Caroline McMillan, ( 1899-1991 ) who is buried at Hautapu cemetary in Cambridge. If any of you wish to swap information please send me a private e-mail. I would love to get as much info as you have Jillian and
the rest of you who are willing to write. Any Questions for me.... Fire away
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Hi Irene, Not sure where I gathered this info now, a few years ago, not sure how correct it is, but I have these children to a John Joseph Lockley ( 1770 - ) and Alice Forshaw , 1776 Litherland, Liverpool - Died Mar 1876 in West Derby , Liverpool .
Margaret Lockley 1809 –
George Lockley 1810 –
Mary Lockley 1812 –
Elizabeth Lockley 1814 –
John Lockley 1816 –
Edmund Lockley 1819 – 1868
Robert Lockley 1825 – 1873
Then I have John Joseph with a 2nd spouse. an Elizabeth Kirk ( b 1771 - ) from London, and from this union , William born 1817 in Birmingham, West Midlands, England . Need to see the birth cert of William or William's dad John. I have 2 death dates for John. .....1926 at the age of 56, the other option is ...unknown . but the 1851 census shows Alice and John , both aged 66, and no children with them at the time. I have limited resources to view records at this time. Seems that I'm not sure of the true John. Jillian, can you help here with William's birth cert?
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Re: Bona Grattan
Hello, Is it possible that the Bona Grattan in your family tree is the same Bona Grattan who was accidentally killed in 1892 and is buried at Alfriston, New Zealand? Thank you.
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hi Jayemal
Sounds like it is the same person
Our Bona was thrown from her horse while riding home from church at Papakura in the company of her daughter and a friend, the horse shied then bolted she died of brain damage on 30th march 1891 regards Katmon
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Hello Katmon
I'm so glad I posted the question! Would be so good to get some background on her life. The reason is that we are intending to form a group connected to the Christ Church, Alfriston cemetery where we also have family. We also hope in future to write a booklet with brief information on the lives and backgrounds of those buried there. Would you know why the headstone reads '27 March 1892' ? And also why she is (apparently?) the only family member buried in this cemetery? I have just joined this forum to post my question so am not sure how to get further information from you other than via this site. My name is Janine Leighton and I live in Auckland. My user name is Jayemal (initials) because every name I tried was 'taken'. Regards, Janine
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Hi
My maiden name is Lockley and my ancestor is William Lockley and Elizabeth Connell from Cambridge. I come from Henry Lockley their son. I have got William's death cert from NZBMD. He was born near Birmingham, England not Rhode Island USA as the Cambridge Museum says. There are afew mistakes on it. I also have Elizabeth Lockley's Death cert as well and marriage cert. I also have worked out she is the daughter of Basil and Mary Connell, they arrived on the Bombay into Nelson on 1842. Have them on the 1841 census in Whitehaven, Cumberland, England. I live in New Plymouth, New Zealand and am totally hooked on family trees.
Regards
Jillian
Hi Jillian
I am new to this but we also are from the William and Elizabeth Lockley (nee Connell) branch. Our line comes from their daughter Mary Collins (nee Lockley) who married James Collins. We come from their son Percy Collins who married Sarah Collins (nee Lane).
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Hi Pukenga
Have just read your message about Percy Collins and his 2nd wife Sarah. I have done some result on the Collins side but have been having a few problems.
I have work out they James and Mary Collins have abt 14 children.
Jillian
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Hi Jillian,
Hows things?, and they would all be my cousins. Any chance you could PM me their names ? wjorders@hotmail.com.
Hope your enjoying family trees still.
Jon
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:o :)
Can anyone explain to me why..........
Fanny " Annie " Connell. 1838–1896, Whitehaven, Cumberland, England, died 4 Oct 1896 in Melbourne Victoria, Australia,
Is not listed on the 1841 England Census along with the family, and I cannot find her in their emigration to N.Z. record in 1842.
But she did marry John Henry Richardson in NOV 1863 • Canterbury, New Zealand
Where was she in 41 ? and when did she come to NZ ?
Merry Xmas,
Temiro