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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Tipperary => Topic started by: cassofromdyers on Saturday 26 September 09 10:55 BST (UK)
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Hi I am seeking information on the following ancestors. James Kerwick age 24 of Thurles County Tipperary, and wife Celia (Cecelia) Moran age 28 of Tyrell's Pass King's County arrived in Sydney Australia 6th January 1852. James parents Patrick and Margaret, mother living in Omum. Celia's parents William and Ann Moran living at Tyrell's Pass. All there children were born in Australia. I would appreciate if anyone can assist with marriage certificates details etc. or parents death details.
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Full civil registration started here in Ireland in 1864, non-Catholic marriages were registered from 1845 - so if James and Celia were Church of Ireland for example, their marriage could be listed on the Civil index. You can search the index on this familysearch website : http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#c=1408347;p=2;t=searchable
you can order certs using the index details form the GRO (www.groireland.ie)
To search for earlier parish records (if they still exist) you would need to know religion and a precise location - e.g. parish, town or townland.
Some Co. Tipperary parish transcripts are available on the pay website of the Irish Family History Foundation - www.irish-roots.ie
I only know of one town named Tyrrellspass, and it's in County Westmeath (King's County is an old name for Co. Offaly)
Shane
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Thanks for the information. Sorry, I didn't mention that both James and Celia were Roman Catholic. Also can anyone tell me where Omum is?
Wendy
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Wendy
I could not find any townland/district in Tipperary to match Omum but this may be a possibility. In Griffiths Valuation (land tax records) for Tipperary there is a Patrick Kerwick in the townland of Roan Killenaule parish. These records are from about 1850-1853 Could Roan have been misheard (given an Irish accent) as Orum? While it may sound far-fetched I think it may be a possibility.
See sitehttp://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index.xml?action=doNameSearch&familyname=Kerwick&firstname=Patrick&baronyname=&countyname=TIPPERARY%2C+SOUTH+RIDING&unionname=&parishname=&Submit.x=14&Submit.y=13
Killenaule is to the southeast of Thurles town see map http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&source=hp&q=Killenaule+tipperary&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hq=&hnear=Killenaule,+Co.+Tipperary&gl=ie&ei=rkS-SpyLDtCZjAfs641P&sa=X&oi=geocode_result&ct=title&resnum=1
As was pointed out the main records for Catholics before 1864 are parish/church records. If it is the right parish Killenaule parish records start quite early Baptisms from 1742-1802 a gap and then 1827 to 1880. They are not available online as Killenaule is in the diocese of Cashel and Emly and the records are only available on a commission basis from the Tipperary town heritage centre http://www.tfhr.org/ or by personal research in the National Library Dublin where they are on microfilm.
Hope this is of help
annclare
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Sorry everyone. Went back over original shipping record with a fine tooth comb. As I am unfamiliar with towns, may have misread town. Still unsure of exact spelling but it appears the O should be a D. Maybe Drum. Is that a place?
Wendy
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Wendy
It probably is Drom which is quite near the town of Thurles - the sources for the parish records are the same as for Killenaule. The baptismal and marriage records start in 1827 -1880.
annclare
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Thanks. Will chase up the parish record for Drom.
Another quick question - If Kerwick is not a common name then what about Kirby/Kerby? James and Cecila arrived in Australia as Kerwick, had first two children Margaret & Patrick as Kerwick, then next five were registered as follows: Anne Kirby, John Kerwick & Kirby, James Kirby, Mary Kerwick & Kirby and William Kerby. Don't understand change of name but James & Cecila deaths registed as Kirby. Parents for James, Patrick, Wheelwright and Margaret Kirk. Parents for Cecilia, William Moran, Farmer mother unknown.
I apologise for not including all this information beforehand. As I'm new at this I am slowly learning what to do.
Thanks again
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RE Kirby and Kerwick
Have a look at this site which indicates that Kirby and Kerwick are variants of the same surname - this rather surprised me- but it is a reputable site. It also shows the distribution of the surname
http://www.irishtimes.com/ancestor/surname/index.cfm?fuseaction=Go.&UserID=
There is no Kerwick or Kirby showing in Drum parish in Griffiths Valuation (land tax records) Wonder if you should continue looking for Kerwick.
annclare
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Thanks wondered why the two names. That site explained it. Back to the drawing board I think.
Wendy
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Hi Wendy'
I have just noticed your posts regarding Kirby/Kerwick. My husband is a direct descendant of James Kirby and Cecelia Moran who came to Australia in 1852. Until I read your post I had never been able to find a record of their arrival even though I knew it was in 1852 and that James was from Tipperary and Cecilia from Kings County. I had also never been able to find births of their first 2 children Margaret and Patrick, but have the other five. I had absolutely no idea they had changed their names.! I am so excited, as I have been trying to find their arrival details for about 30 years and now, thanks to your post I have found it.
I have quite a bit of information on my husband's line and about Patrick . Iwould be very happy to know where you fit into this family and hopefully we can share some information. My husband is descended from James and Cecelia's son James.
Would love to hear from you.
Lynette Kirby
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Hi Lyn
Sent you a Personal Message. My connection is through my husband's ggf and the eldest daughter, Margaret Kerwick, who married in 1879.
Have the shipping details but have been unable to find out anything about them in Ireland.
Wendy
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I am great-grandson of James Kerwick from a hamlet named Glanagola (aka Glanaguile) near Thurles. This James Kerwick emigrated to the US and resided for most of his life in Trenton, New Jersey. He had 9 children and over 50 grandchildren. His birth date was 1870 so probably the next generation down from who you have mentioned here. He also had a brother Patrick that also settled in Trenton and he had a large extended family as well. The Kerwick name is not that common. Some have said it's actually a German name but I don't know if that is true. The link below shows the name John Kerwick as a landowner in Glangola in the mid 19th century. I visited this farm with my mother over 20 years ago and we met several of the relatives including a John Kerwick and his family. We saw the old Kerwick house as well. There are several Kirwicks listed in this link as well. Not sure if Kerwick is a derivative of Kirwick or not. Anyway, I hope this helps you in your search. Perhaps we are long-lost cousins.
http://www.igp-web.com/tipperary/buolick.htm
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This sounds very promising. As you say, Kerwick is not a very common name. Certainly, it is likely that any living in Thurles in the 1800s would be related in some way. It appears to have been quite common for some members of an extended family to go to America and others to Australia. It seems quite likely that your James may have been a nephew or second cousin of our James. I don't know if there is any way of proving this - very challenging indeed. Will be in contact.
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Hi Wendy,
I just found this site and may be able to help a bit with descendents. My grandmother is Mary Kirby (also registered as Kerwick) and she was 4th child of Cecilia and James. I have just started focusing on this family line (after doing a few others) so I am in the early stages in terms of finding info pre-emigration to Australia. But if you are still interested in some Aussie descendents let me know. Hopefully we can share what we have. I am really interested in trying to get photos and images of family and where they lived etc.
Regards
Vicki
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I have descendants who are Kerwick's from the Thurles area in Tipperary (the ones who didn't emigrate to Australia). Did you uncover anything about their siblings and their descendants while doing your research? Thanks!
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I'm so pleased to have found this thread as I also have found problems trying to find evidence of James and Cecilia's life story. I am descended from their son John, who married Philomena Savage. I've done some research on John's life. He was a butcher who lived in Hornsby NSW. His brother Patrick was a undertaker. Apart from that I know little about the family, however I'm very keen to share what I have and to find out more. Unfortunately I have no family photos.
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Thurles RC parish, 2 September 1850, the marriage of James Kerwick and Cecilia Moran, the witnesses were Martin Howard and Mary Laffan (left page, 4th entry up from bottom):
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000632770#page/44/mode/1up
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Trying to find the following in the online NLI RC parish registers, but a transcription I've seen indicates that a James Kirwick was baptised in Drom parish on 9 December 1827 for parents Patrick Kirwick and Margaret Herke(?), the sponsors were James Kennedy and Judy McGrath.
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Trying to find the following in the online NLI RC parish registers, but a transcription I've seen indicates that a James Kirwick was baptised in Drom parish on 9 December 1827 for parents Patrick Kirwick and Margaret Herke(?), the sponsors were James Kennedy and Judy McGrath.
The above is just a speculative possibility, but just to note that Drom RC parish register transcriptions show other children for parents with names Patrick Kirwick and Margaret Herk/Herke as follows:
- Margaret baptised on 20 January 1813;
- William baptised on 17 May 1816;
- James baptised on 28 February 1822 (presumably died young);
- Andrew baptised on 29 March 1826;
- Judith baptised on 30 November 1833.
There was also a son John (#1?) baptised on 20 December 1829 and a son John (#2?) baptised on 20 December 1830 for parents Patrick Kirby and Margaret Herk, the address was the townland of Rathleasty in both cases:
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000632705#page/22/mode/1up
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000632705#page/29/mode/1up
Griffith's Valuation shows a Patrick Kenrick in Rathleasty, printing date for that locality was 1850.
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Hi
Am browsing the following link (Estate Papers) and notice James Kerwick mentioned on Pages 43 and 44 in Grague, Tipperary. I've only reached Page 44, so he might be mentioned elsewhere. Anyway, take a look:-
http://tipperarystudies.ie/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/Valentine%20Maher%2C%20Turtulla%20rental%201839-1843%20part%201%20reduced.pdf
Cheers
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Thank you L.H. for posting this information. I am uncertain what it means at present but will now look at it closer.
Appreciate you taking the time to send me a message.
Wendy
from Australia
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Hi again
In the 1790-1801 Tithes Book below, there is mention at No. 107 (around Page 20, I think) of John and Patt Kerwick.
See:-
http://tipperarystudies.ie/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/Ardmayle%20Ballysheehan%20Tithe%20Book%201790-1801%20reduced.pdf
Cheers
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On Page 119, there is also mention of John Kierwick (sic) in - I think - the same townland. The link is:-
http://tipperarystudies.ie/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/Ardmayle%20Ballysheehan%20Tithe%20Book%201790-1801%20reduced.pdf
Cheers