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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Derry (Londonderry) => Topic started by: alexaia on Tuesday 29 September 09 16:45 BST (UK)
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Hi,
I'm trying to find out more info on John Kennedy who would have been my great/great/great grandfather. Possibly married to a Martha ? and had at least one child - Catherine (born 1817, married 3.2.1848, died 1.3.1907) who married Thomas Torrens. Their marriage records refers to her father as John Kennedy, farmer of Mayoghil.
The 1818 & 25 Garvagh Church Visitation list does list a John Kennedy of Mayoghill and his wife Martha and children including a "Cathran" which may be the above.
There is also reference to an 1821 Census for Derry on the Torrens.org site but which refers only to a John Kennedy and his family living at Cooleman (Is this a similar place or does it suggest a different family?). The rest of the extract on this site does have detail of family members but not for the Kennedy entry.
I have been unable to locate this census extract. Can anybody point me in the right direction for the 1821 Census for Derry as I would like to see if it holds any further detail of family members for the Kennedys? If only to eliminate from my research.
Thanks
Alexaia
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Mayoughill and Coolnaman (lots of different spellings for each) are separate townlands. According to my notes Catherine Kennedy was born c1824 and husband Thomas Torrens 25 Aug.1826.
As you've probably discovered by now, Kennedy and Torrens are the most common surnames in Moneydig/Garvagh area.
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Hi,
Thanks for your quick response.
Yes, unfortunately rather large families to be researching. Torrrens in particular, and the variances in spelling, does not help! I suspect the two Kennedy references now are different families given the separate townland though I suppose if I could track down that 1821 census I might be able to eliminate.
I'm interested to see that your notes have Catherine born around 1824 which differs to my record which I obtained from the "Hugh Torrens of Drumsara" tree on the Torrens web site showing 1817 based on age at dearth of 90 and date of death 1.3.1907. Do you think these are the same people? The date for the husband, Thomas Torrens, ties in. (I have his date of death as 8.5.1889).
Thanks
Alexaia
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I have Thomas Torrens (25 Aug.1826-8 May 1889), Culnaman & Drumsara, m.(3 Feb.1848 Moneydig Presbyterian Church) Catherine Kennedy (c1824-1 Mar.1907), dau. of John Kennedy, Mayoughill.
Added- I've any 4 children listed but there could certainly be others:
1. Martha Torrens (c1847-3 Dec.1931).
2. Ann Torrens.
3. Hugh Torrens (d.28 Oct.1940).
4. Mary Torrens.
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Looks definitely like the same family.
In addition to the four children you mention I have a further two:
- Margaret Ann Torrens who married a Nichol and
- Elizabeth (b.1861) who married William Lynn Michael .
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Elizabeth "Lizzie" Torrens (b.c1863 in my notes) married William Lynn Michael (b.c1861), son of James Michael & Hannah Lynn. (had notes on them but wasn't sure it was same Elizabeth Torrens).
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Thanks,
That's a couple more pieces of the jigsaw in place.
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Do you want the children I have for William Lynn Michael?
1. Annie Lynn Michael (c1888-1939).
2. Adelia H./Hessie Delia Michael (c1890-1970).
3. Elizabeth K. “Lizzie” Michael (c1893-1978).
4. James John Michael (2 Dec.1898-1972).
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Thant's great, thanks.
I've been looking through my notes again and note that John Kennedy of Mayoghill was recorded as having 7 children in 1818 and I've got dates for the first 4 from 1st Garvagh Presbyterian Church records online:
Thos - 20.3.1806
Agnes - 3.8.1807
Margaret - 3.4.1810
Alexander - 13.1.1812
The last 3 are not recorded (and I'm making the presumption that it would have been the same church)
Martha - ?
Catherine - ? - (I have her as c1817 by age deduction from death record).
John - ?
I see ther seems to be a gap in records from 1816 -1822, do you know if these records are available elsewhere - you mentioned earlier that your notes show Catherine being born c1824 and I am wondering where you got that from? I have tried PRONI but they have a similar gap.
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I have 1st Garvagh baptisms (with gaps) but can't see any of the 'missing' children for a John Kennedy, Mayoughill but as well as the gaps it's not uncommon to find all children in a family unrecorded in a baptismal register even at a later period.
Will have to look through some old files to see where I might have gotten an estimate of Catherine's year of birth.
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That would be great, thanks.
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Aghadowey,
I am slightly off track on this thread but I have a Samuel Torrens of Culnamen who married Sarah Morrison in Ringsend in 1871. The Torrens website states that Sarah Morrison was from Drumsurn but does not give a source for this info. I wondered if your notes make any mention of this.
Regards
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Aghadowey,
I am slightly off track on this thread but I have a Samuel Torrens of Culnamen who married Sarah Morrison in Ringsend in 1871. The Torrens website states that Sarah Morrison was from Drumsurn but does not give a source for this info. I wondered if your notes make any mention of this.
Regards
Have the marriage-
Ringsend Presbyterian Church, 29 Aug.1871, Samuel Torrance, full age, bachelor, farmer, Coolnaman, son of Hugh Torrance, farmer, to Sarah Morrison, full age, spinster, Gortnagross, dau. of John Morrison, farmer. Witnesses: Saml? Miller, Jane Quigg.
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Aghadowey,
Many, many thanks.
Regards Kingskerswell
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Should also add the following in case it's the Morrison connection you are interested in-
Sarah (Morrison) Torrens m.2 (26 Oct.1882 Moneydig Presbyterian Church) Isaac Stewart and had other children.
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Aghadowey,
Thanks again. Yes, it is the Stewart connection which I am chasing. The names used in the Bann valley are remarkably similar to those used in the Roe valley and include the more unusual ones such Rosanna, Isaac, Oliver and Irwin. I have been trying to find a connection for some years now.
Regards
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This will either help you or make things more confusing...
Josiah Stewart.
1. Joseph Stewart (born c1835).
2. Isaac Stewart (c1835-1919- date on gravestone is incorrect), Culnaman, m. Sarah (Morrison) Stewart and had a son Isaac Irwin Stewart (1883).
3. Oliver Stewart (c1846), Liscall, also had a son Isaac Irwin Stewart (1889-1898).
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Aghadowey,
You are spot on. These are some of the people I have come across. The difficulty I have is finding a connection to similarly named people in the Roe Valley!!
Regards
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I'm coming back into this post after being away from my computer for a while! We seem to have diversified a bit but still useful and relevant to my wider research.
Is that the Samuel Torrens who married Sarah Morrison and who I have recorded as died in Johannesburg or am I barking up the wrong part of the tree?
If it is he was then a brother of my great/great grandparents, Thomas Torrens & Catherine Kennedy and whose daughter Martha married William Fleming.
Don't know if this is of any use to you Kingskerswell, but if you are also researching the Torrens tree have you seen the Public trees on Ancestry which show the Torrens line going back to 1600s? Needs to be treated with a certain amount of caution without definite evidence of sources though it would appear, if correct, that Hugh Torrens, Samuel's father, married his cousin Margaret Torrens (parents Samuel Torrens & Mary Smith).
Regards,
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Alexaia,
My apologies for the diversification but although I am not chasing the Torrens tree I am interested in a Morrison from my area of interest who married a Torrens and then went on to marry a Stewart and used very familiar names for her children. Thanks for your interest.
Regards
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Thanks, no need to apologize - I'm happy with the diversification as you never know what you will pick up and opens potential new avenues. Its always useful to have information from wherever source as this genealogy can be a bit of a minefield to negotiate, so any clue or snippet of info can be useful.
Good luck with your research.
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Sarah Morrison married 1st (29 Aug.1871) Samuel Torrens and she m.2nd (1882) Isaac Stewart. Samuel Torrens was born 9 Dec.1832 and he and Sarah had a son Hugh Smith Torrens born 22 July 1872. Therefore, it would be logical to assume Samuel Torrens might have died 1872-1882. There is a death for a Samuel Torrans Jan./Mar.1880 Coleraine registration district age 48 which is a possiblity but I haven't checked the actual certificate.
Is there a Samuel Torrens in Jo'burg?
There is a tremendous amount of Torrens information available online and much of it has been copied from other places and needs to be verified.
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Yes, the Torrens family seem to be a big clan with several public trees and a site dedicated to them. Each of the trees do seem to tie in though of course risk is that some info is being lifted from one to the other without some form of cross-confirmation of data.
I have been trying to amalgamate all the data and there are some patterns emerging that suggest the family lines are correct.
That you mention Hugh Torrens & Sarah (Morrison) had a child called Hugh Smith Torrens would tend to support their lineage backwards to Samuel Torrens, (B.1760, D.1804) who married Mary Ann Smith, (B.1767) through the use of "Smith" as the middle name. They would have been "HST's" great grandparents and further supports that Hugh Torrens (HST's grandfather) married his cousin. This is getting confusing but I think I'm making sense. Apologies if not!!
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Smith used as a middle name is found in several branches of the Torrens family so you need to be careful. As well as that, several local boys were named Hugh Smith Morrison ___/Hugh Smith ___ after Dr. Hugh Smith Morrison of Oakfort, Moneydig.
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More complications and I thought I had it sussed!!
Thanks for the tip.
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Alexaia,
When I think that I have something sussed it usually means that I am missing something.
Regards
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Kingskerswell,
Agree wholeheartedly.
By the way I notice one of the family names you are researching is Stewart. I was looking through my records and note that I have a Florence Stewart marrying George Hamilton Fleming (part of my family tree) of Garvagh on 24 July 1906. The marriage was in Saintfield which is some distance from Garvagh so not sure if she was from there. May not be relevant and if not just ignore.
regards.
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Alexaia,
Thanks for the information but as far as I am aware not one of mine.
On the Samuel Torrens name there is a will abstract in PRONI for a Samuel Torrens of Culnaman who died on 20 Dec 1879 proved by the oath of Sarah Torrens, widow.I also have a vague memory of a gravestone in Moneydig Presbyterian Church, erected by Sarah Stewart in memory of her husband Isaac and son Joseph but, strangely, her death was not recorded on it.
Regards
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Thanks, I'll check these out.
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Hello, I know this family, did much research on them as they are related. The Thomas Torrens you mention was son of Hugh Torrens, I descend from Hughs brother Samuel Torrens (c1759) of Coolneman.
The Samuel who married Morrison died, his widow Sarah later Married Isaac Stewart of Coolneman and had family.
Its been a while since I worked on genealogy but glad I found this thread.
I hope this helps
Derek.
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Hi,
I am distantly related to Sarah Morrison who married Samuel Torrens. However I am more interested in her second husband, Isaac Stewart as his name and their childrens' names repeat in my family but I cannot connect him. Any information would be appreciated.
Regards
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Hi,
I am distantly related to Sarah Morrison who married Samuel Torrens. However I am more interested in her second husband, Isaac Stewart as his name and their childrens' names repeat in my family but I cannot connect him. Any information would be appreciated.
Regards
Not sure if I've given you details of Isaac Stewart a while ago (and you may have more information than me) but from just a quick look to my file I show a brother Joseph (c1835) and a brother Oliver (c1846) for Isaac Stewart.
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Thanks Aghadowey. I think that you may have given me some information some time ago but thanks again for the update.
Regards