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Research in Other Countries => United States of America => US Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Alicat84 on Monday 12 October 09 20:47 BST (UK)
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Hi!
Hope someone can help me, I'm helping a friend of mine with her family tree and she would like to find some of her family on a census in San Francisco.
His name was Thomas Gibney, he was Irish (Co. Meath), he was a stonecutter and his wife was named Josie (Josephine). It's believed that she was French Canadian.
We know that they were in San Francisco in 1922 from this city directory http://www.distantcousin.com/Directories/CA/SanFrancisco/1922/Pages.asp?Page=0728
The story goes that he died when he fell from scaffolding in March of 1933 but we don't have any documentation to prove it yet.
So if anyone has access to any census from before or after that time we would really appreciate it!
Neither of us are used to searching for family in America so if anyone has any other suggestions as to where we might find information, please let us know
:)
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Hi Alicat:
I checked the 1920 census and found two entries for Thomas Gibney but neither was born in Ireland. One was 36 and born in California. The other was 65 and born in New York. No sign at all of a Josephine.
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1930 US Census
677 Lisbon Street San Francisco, California
Thomas Gibney age 59 born abt Irish Free State, Stonecutter, Immigration year 1892
Josephine Gibney age 52 born abt 1878 French Canada, Immigration year 1897
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Thank you Pat!
And thank you Merjones!! That's fantastic! Do you know where I might find immigration records for both of them? Sorry if it's a silly question but I really know nothing about US searches!
:D
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1910
GIBNEY THOMAS 38 M W IREL CA SAN FRANCISCO SAN FRANCISCO 1910
Living at 677 Lisbon St.
Josephine 32 yo, b. Canada. Both 1st marriage (6 years).
Haven't found yet in 1920.
Nick
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also, 1910 has respective imm. date of 1886 & 1881.
N
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You are all wonderful people! :D
That's brilliant, 1910!
But the Immigration dates are different from the 1930's....would it be uncommon for people to change the years on purpose? Maybe to cheat their way into staying longer in the US?
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1910 US Census
677 Lisbon Street (he owns his home)
Thomas Gibney age38 says immigration year is 1886 so the 1892 probably was the naturalization year
Josephine Gibney age32
Henry Bushey age 25 brother-in-law
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Hi Alicat
For San Francisco Genealogy I know the following interesting Website:
(wedding anouncements and death notices in newspapers,
as well as city directories and highschool or academy classes)
http://www.sfgenealogy.com/
Here you can find several old newspapers of the United States
1880 -1922, there are also some of San Francisco:
http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/
Here you can find several old city directories of the United States
there are also some of San Francisco:
http://distantcousin.com/Directories/
For naturalization / immigration documents have a look here:
http://www.footnote.com/
For passenger lists you should have a look at:
http://www.ellisisland.org/
http://www.castlegarden.org/
http://www.ancestorsonboard.com/
Regards
Svenja
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Mer, thanks for the suggestion of Naturalization, makes sense!
So does it say where Henry was born? In otherwards, is he Josephine's brother?
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Henry Bushey was born abt 1885 in New York, his parents were born Canada
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Here are a couple of suggestions: There are two intriguing names I have found on freely available websites (familysearch.org). 1881 Canada there is a 3 yo Josephena Busha with family, and 1880 US New York, there is a 2 yo Josephene Bushey with family (father Oliver). Now checking for Oliver's family in 1900 to see if Henry is with.
Might be worth pursuing since I presume this name came from French, e.g. "Bouchet" or like.
Nick
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1901 Census of Canada
Muskoka & Parry Sound District
Wallbridge and Brown Sub-District
Michael Bushey 73, born Apr 14, 1827 Ontario
Catharine Bushey 58, born Dec 11, 1842 Ontario
Edward Bushey 28, born Nov 12, 1872 Ontario single
Henerey Bushey 26, born Aug 25, 1874 Ontario married
Paul Bushey 24, born Sep 1, 1876 Ontario married
Josephine Bushey 22 born Aug 3, 1878 Ontario, Roman Catholic
Charles Bushey 16, born Apr 8, 1884 Ontario
Edinn Bushey 12, born Apr 5, 1888 Ontario
David Bushey 11, born Apr 16, 1889 Ontario
after looking at this I realize Henerey listed here couldn't be the same one on the US Census ....so this is probably not Josephine's family
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1900 US Census
San Francisco California
T. Gibney age 28, born Dec 1871 Ireland, single, roomer at the Park Hotel
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This is fantastic.
So is there anywhere online to access things such as birth/death/marriage certificates for San Francisco?
I've had a look at at familysearch.org but it doesn't have entries for a lot of events.
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1900 US Census
San Jose, Santa Clara County, California
Ada Dowd, Head, dressmaker
Josie Bushey,born Oct 1878 Canada, immigration year 1881 Assistant, dressmaker
Henry Lisle, boarder age 34
Amaya Lisle, boarder age 4
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Mer, fantastic! ;D
thank you again!
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Excellent finds on the Gibney and Bushey in 1900 merjones.
(My source has him indexed as "Gibny" and I can't do truncated search. Now if only 1920 was findable.
California Death Index has a Henry Peter Bushey b 2 May 1886 New York, mother maiden name Dauphin. Died 14 Jan 1949 in SF.
Too bad all pre-1906 marriages lost in earthquake and fires.
Nick
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Oh I didn't realise that about the marriages before 1906, that's a shame :(
However that Henry sounds promising...mother maiden name Dauphin, definitely a french name.
So coming from Canada, was it a natural progression to go to New York first?
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Alicat,
I do hope you have some interest in Josephine's ancestors. I think that Oliver Bushey is correct in spite of many refs saying he was born in NY. 1870 New York (Burke, Franklin) does say he and wife Catherine born Canada.
At that time he is 36 and she 30. 3 kids, eldest 9, implying marriage ca 1860. Two eldest b. NY, youngest (Harriett, 2) b Canada.
Nick
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Franklin County is in the extreme north of New York state, adjacent to Quebec, Canada. There was a fair amount of popping back and forth across the border between Canada and northern US states.
Nick
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In case this hasn't been mentioned, they are on the California voter reg. (various dates). During 1918 and 1922:
Josephine O and Thomas, residing at 677 Lisbon. Thomas was a stonecutter.
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San Francisco 1920 Census:
Tom Gebbney, age 46 (or 40), born Ireland as were parents. Unknown date of immigration. Occupation: Cutter, Stone.
Married to Josephine Gebbney, age 36, born New York as was father. Mother born Canada (English). Occupation: Housewife.
Living with them was Catherine Buskay, mother-in-law, age 70, widowed. Unknown date of immigration. Born Ireland, as were parents.
California voter reg for 1938:
I only see Mrs. Josephine O. Gibney, living at 677 Lisbon. She was a Housewife. No mention of Thomas.
All were living at 677 Lisbon.
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Perhaps I am not doing the search correctly (for the voter registration), but the last time I see both of the Gibney's living on Lisbon is 1930. Josephine is again mentioned in 1938. (Nothing for either between 1930 and 1938.)
There is a Thomas J. mentioned after 1930, but he is at a different address (no mention of Josephine) and he was a carpenter.
In 1930: Thomas J., Carpenter (on 3rd), Republican; Thomas, Stonecutter (on Lisbon), Republican.
1935: Thomas J., Carpenter (now living on Bryant), now a Democrat.
1939: Thomas J., Carpenter (now living on Fulton), Democrat.
Perhaps your Thomas did pass away in 1933? Just mentioned the other Thomas in case Thomas and Josephine split up in 1930. I wouldn't think he could be mentioned twice, though, in 1930.
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Unfortunately, the records start in 1940, but:
http://vitals.rootsweb.ancestry.com/ca/death/search.cgi
Josephin O Gibney passed away June 8, 1968, San Francisco. She was born October 6, 1876. She was 91 years old. Unfortunately, neither mother's maiden name, nor father's last name were mentioned.
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I do not see any Gibney's in the 1938 San Francisco directory:
http://www.archive.org/details/sanfranciscobayaug1938pacirich
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Using a site that Svenja suggested on the previous page...there is a 1907 listing for the couple:
http://www.sfgenealogy.com/php/dbs/1907sfd.php
I believe they are on page 332
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Lisa, that's fantastic!
Firstly, I must tell you, my name is Alison and the friend that I am helping is Gráinne. We are both work colleagues of Ellie that you helped last week finding her granduncle in New York! So you are held in very high regard here and we really appreciate all the effort you've gone to!
The 1907 Directory for Thomas seems correct. We know he married Josephine in about 1904, and the first record we have of him being in Lisbon Street is 1910.
Thomas did apparently die in 1933, maybe around March 18th? Gráinne has a letter written by Josephine, saying that Thomas had been in an accident, something about falling from scaffolding. She also says that it was reported in a newspaper called the "Stonecutters Journal" but we can't find any record or reference to this. Any chance you might know where we might find this?...
Thanks so much
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Your friend has had very good results on this thread, hasn't she. ;D I think it is much easier to find things when we all add pieces of information.
Besides receiving assistance from this site and one other site, searching the internet is how I find my information about my ancestors. Living in California, with Canadian, English and Irish rellies/ancestors, I've had to figure out how to try different searches to find results.
Another result for your friend is:
the Journeyman Stonecutters Association of North America had a union newspaper named the Stonecutters Journal. However, they apparently seem to only be found in some libraries or archives.
http://www.stonecarver.com/union.html
Perhaps we might be lucky and find out more about the journal.
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Your friend could try writing to the San Francisco Public Library, Ask A Librarian service. They do not do searches. However, they might be able to advise where copies could be located, and perhaps if copies are found, someone could have a look for Thomas.
http://sfpl.lib.ca.us/sfplonline/asklibrarian.htm
He also might be listed in the San Francisco Chronicle, either in an article about his death, or in an obituary.
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Perhaps if we try to find other members of Josephine's family, we might find clues about Josephine and/or Thomas after 1930?
Could this be Josephine's mother, in 1910?
Catherine Bushay, age 60, widowed, mother of 7 children, 5 still living. Living with her cousin, Mary McAbee and Mary's son, Edward.
Catherine and Mary were born in Canada French. Edward was born in New York.
They were living in San Jose, Santa Clara County, California.
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Great work finding them and mother Catherine in 1920 Lisa, and Catherine in 1910.
Ali, what more is required on this? We have Josephine and her famiy back to at least 1870 in New York, and Thomas back to 1900 pre-marriage. Also there are indications that Josie's father Oliver joined the 48th NY Infantry in 1865 (US Civil War) and deserted a few months later.
Do you want to try and pursue this family back to marriage, probable births in Canada, etc?
Nick
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Thank you all again so much for helping!
It really would be very interesting to track the family back. As this is my friend Grainne's great-uncle, she hadn't expected to be going far back with him, and at such a fast pace! She mainly wanted to find out about him going to San Fran and find out about his death. Her main interest is to track down blood relatives and ancestors, but she finds this a fascinating side story she hadn't counted on and would like to find out more.
So yes, she would like to go further as long as it wasn't unnecessarily difficult ;D
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Hi further to a query that everyone help sourcing information on my late great uncle Thomas Gibney (San Francisco) last year. Can someone help me with a further query and help locate information on a paper called "The Stonecutters Journal". When Thomas Gibney fell off scaffolding on 18th March 1933, an article appeared in the above paper on this accident. Would anyone be ale to check if this paper is archived and if so, can articles be copied from it. Many thanks for all previous information and any further help that you may give.
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There are a few volumes of Stone Cutters Journal (note that Stone Cutters was separated into 2 words) on Google Books, but I don't see a 1933 one.
If you search on www.worldcat.org, you can find what libraries have this journal.
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Thomas Gibney lived in St. Paul. Minnesota in 1898-9 and worked on the construction of the Minnesota State Capitol. According to the St. Paul City Directory of 1898 he was boarding at 193 Fuller along with John Gibney and several other stone cutters including William J. Harvey, Daniel King and William White. All these men were itinerant stone cutters and they are very difficult to trace. There is a picture of Thomas Gibney in the St. Paul Globe newspaper of 27 Feb. 1899 on p.8. He was a Union activist, like many stone cutters, and there are some other references to him in the Globe. I can't figure out how to post the picture here but you can get it on the Library of Congress newspaper website.
I, and several others, are working on a project researching the construction workers on the Minnesota Capitol. If anyone has actually found any of those old Stone Cutter Journals (other than the few on Google Books) please let me know!
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Using worldcat.org, as I mentioned above, there are some of those journals in various libraries.
In case the original poster comes back, the California death index up to 1939 is now available on www.familysearch.org. You have to browse through by page, but you should be able to see if he died when you think he did. The San Francisco library does do obituary look-ups if you have the date - http://sfpl.org/index.php?pg=2000049301
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Great work finding them and mother Catherine in 1920 Lisa, and Catherine in 1910.
Ali, what more is required on this? We have Josephine and her famiy back to at least 1870 in New York, and Thomas back to 1900 pre-marriage. Also there are indications that Josie's father Oliver joined the 48th NY Infantry in 1865 (US Civil War) and deserted a few months later.
Do you want to try and pursue this family back to marriage, probable births in Canada, etc?
Nick
Just noticed your reference to Oliver Bushey, my husbands gg grandfather. Oliver's daughter Amelia (Josephine's sister) married George McAbee. The McAbee's moved from Quebec to Franklin County, NY in 1860's, then to San Jose, California in 1870's. I see now that the Bushey family also followed this path.
I am interested in Nickgc's reference to Oliver and Civil War desertion. Would you pls let me know the source ?
Thanks
Mary
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Thomas Gibney lived in St. Paul. Minnesota in 1898-9 and worked on the construction of the Minnesota State Capitol. According to the St. Paul City Directory of 1898 he was boarding at 193 Fuller along with John Gibney and several other stone cutters including William J. Harvey, Daniel King and William White. All these men were itinerant stone cutters and they are very difficult to trace. There is a picture of Thomas Gibney in the St. Paul Globe newspaper of 27 Feb. 1899 on p.8. He was a Union activist, like many stone cutters, and there are some other references to him in the Globe. I can't figure out how to post the picture here but you can get it on the Library of Congress newspaper website.
I, and several others, are working on a project researching the construction workers on the Minnesota Capitol. If anyone has actually found any of those old Stone Cutter Journals (other than the few on Google Books) please let me know!
John,
Many thanks your most welcome contribution to our search! It has helped greatly to confirm and find new information about Thomas. Can I ask how you knew about him? Are there records for people like Thomas, maybe with a Stonecutters organisation?
Stellamarie,
were you aware of Josie's husband Thomas before this? Do you have family pictures of Josie? We have one photo of Josie and Thomas together as an older couple.
Regards,
Alison & Grainne
(I think I have successfully attached the image of Thomas from the Globe, 1899, below)
http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lccn/sn90059523/1899-02-27/ed-1/seq-8/print/image_681x591_from_0%2C3335_to_2348%2C5375/
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Stellamarie,
I came across Thomas Gibney in the course of my research on the construction of the Minnesota State Capitol. It's a project, called "Who Built the Capitol," that has several facets, one of which is to make an educational video with interviews of descendants of some of the workers. Believe it or not we've found a few who knew about their great grandfather working there. We will also be making a web site to display our findings. I'm working on a map to show where the workers lived in St. Paul and it can be viewed here: http://www.communitywalk.com/capitol_construction_workers_18981899/map/1523681
Looking at worldcat the best collection of Stone Cutter's Journal magazines seem to be at either Stanford or the New York Public Library. Not too convenient for me but I will get to one of those locations someday!
Do you, or any or your relatives, have any tools that belonged to Thomas? Or anything he wrote down - letters etc.? We're just trying to get an idea what the life of the itinerant stone cutters was like. Thanks much, John
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Hello Alicat & John
I have not searched the Bushey family in depth, and this is the first time I have heard of Thomas Gibney and the Journeyman StoneCutters. That's a great drawing of him in the Globe.
My SIL has the old family photo albums. Lots of old McAbee photo's from early 1900s at the fruit farm in San Jose. Of course no names written on back. Perhaps Thomas & Josie visited her sister Amelia at the farm ? I probably won't see SIL before Christmas. If you would post the photo of Thomas & Josie, I'll take a look and see if any similarities in the old albums. Might help identify Amelia too.
Unlikely to find any of Thomas' tools or writings, but I'll ask around and let you know.
California Death Index on FamilySearch: Thomas Gibney died 18 Mar 1933, San Francisco City (code 90), age 51, wife's initial J.
Stanford Library is close by, and I sent Email to see about a copy Thomas' death notice from Stone Cutter's Journal. (Alison did you try SF Library for obituary/newspaper article ?)
Here's a link about stonecutter union wages in San Francisco from Spokane Daily Chronicle 19 Apr 1912 : http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=WL9XAAAAIBAJ&sjid=E_QDAAAAIBAJ&pg=6160%2C5682126
And this blog has interesting details about stonecutter history and San Francisco : http://stonecutter.blogspot.com/2011/04/lost-trade-of-stone-cutting.html
I love these interesting digressions of my family history research.
Cheers
Mary
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From The Stone Cutters Journal, May 1933, p.16, Obituary
"GIBNEY - Thomas, a member of our San Francisco Local, died suddenly from a fall he received while working on the Post Office wall. He was taking down part of the granite when his crowbar slipped from under the anchor, causing him to lose his balance, and he fell to the ground some thirty-five feet below. The accident happened on March 17th, about two o'clock; Brother Gibney died the next morning at five. The late Brother was fifty-one years of age, and had been president of the San Francisco Local for a number of years. All members and friends extend sincerest sympathy and condolences to the bereaved family."
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Mary,
Thanks so much for finding that obituary of Thomas Gibney. I am adding the information to my map of workers on the Minnesota State Capitol. http://www.communitywalk.com/capitol_construction_workers_189818991900/map/1523681
Details like this do much to help us understand what life was like for these workers. Six men died in the construction of the Capitol - five in falls similar to Thomas Gibney's.