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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: splodge1952 on Friday 16 October 09 00:30 BST (UK)
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I am trying to trace what happened to my grandmother's cousin, Charlotte Louisa ABERCROMBIE. She was born in 1857 in Maidenhead, Berkshire, England and baptised there in 1862. She was illegitimate and her mother, Elizabeth ABERCROMBIE was a cook. I have found Elizabeth in later censuses in England but I have not been able to find Charlotte or any death registration for her.
However, I have found that a Charlotte ABERCROMBIE, aged 22, arrived in Maryborough, QLD, Australia on board the Silver Eagle in 1880. I wonder if she is mine.
I also discovered a death in QLD in 1885 of an Emma ABERCROMBIE aged 4 months, daughter of Charlotte ABERCROMBIE. I have found no other reference to a Charlotte ABERCROMBIE in Queensland.
Can anyone help me discover if the QLD Charlotte is originally from Berkshire in England and what happened to her?
Thanks,
John in British Columbia, Canada
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Hi John
Just wondered - I think I see her on the 1861 Census with her uncle William ABERCROMBIE - as ABERCROMB - do you have that?
Cheers
AMBLY
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Hi AMBLY,
Yes, that is her, but I had already found her in 1861. It is the later censuses that she appears to be missing from. Thanks for your interest, John
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John,
In case the Queensland Charlotte Abercrombie is yours, here's the list of births and deaths of children for her.
Elizabeth Alice born 13th March 1881
Ref = 1881/B027637
Emma born 29th April 1885
Ref = B034163
She died 18th September 1885
Ref =1885/B018142
John born 3rd January 1883
Ref = 1883/B029989
No sign of a marriage for Charlotte to 1889.
Dee :)
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Hi Dee,
Many thanks for that. It will be very useful data if she is the right Charlotte ABERCROMBIE!
John
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I can't see any more mentions in Queensland BDM indexes. Births only go to 1914 and deaths and marriages to 1929.
Dee :)
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I have just found Charlotte in the UK 1871 census, as a boarder with a butcher, Thomas FRY, and his family in Northtown, Cookham (part of Maidenhead). The census taker had mangled her surname and I found her by searching Ancestry's index without a surname.
She is still missing from 1881, 1891, 1901 and 1911, but this would be consistent with emigration to Australia in 1880.
Is there any more evidence out there?
Thanks,
John
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I just checked to see if you purchased one of the children's birth certificates if it would give you more information on the mother's place of birth. Unfortunately that wasn't included until 1908. :-\
There may be a kind Queenslander who could access the actual shipping record at the Queensland archives, and see if that gives any more information.
Dee
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Hi Dee,
That was a good thought. What a pity that the mother's place of birth was not included until 1908.
I will keep my fingers crossed for a kind Queenslander!
Thanks again,
John
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Hi John
I have found some information that could be worth checking out for you. There is a John Edmondson born 1883 with parents given as simply Edmondson and Charlotte Abercrombie, no other details were listed.
A death in Qld - Jane Edmondson, parents John Moor Edmondson and Charlotte Obercrombie 1888/C3735
Death, John Moore Edmondson 1894/C2193 (born England aged 33 yrs)
From Freebmd - John Moor Edmondson at Cockermouth, Vol 10b, p 443 - March 1861
I am going to the library in the next couple of days so could try and find some further details to see if this matches up.
Cazay
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I have some Q birth certificates well before 1908 and the mother's birthplace is shown - one in 1890. Hopes this helps, Gazania
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Hi Cazay,
That's great. Thank you. I have done a bit more searching of the online QLD births marriages and deaths and have found 3 more EDMONDSON births with John (or John Moor) EDMONDSON as the father and Charlotte ABERCROMBIE as the mother. They are:
Jane EDMONDSON 1887
Thomas EDMONDSON 1889
William EDMONDSON 1891
I have also found the marriages of John Leslie EDMONDSON (to Annie SQUIRE in 1928) and Elizabeth Alice EDMONDSON (to William Henry COVINGTON in 1902).
I could not find the death of Charlotte EDMONDSON (or ABERCROMBIE), but the online index only goes up to 1929. If I can find her death somehow, I think her death certificate should tell me where she was born.
Thanks again, John
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Hi Gazania,
That is very interesting. I have just discovered that the Queensland Charlotte had a child in 1891 (William EDMONDSON). If I get that birth certificate, perhaps it will tell me where Charlotte was born.
Thank you very much,
John
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Here’s the actual birthdates for three of the John Moor Edmondson/Charlotte Abercrombie children unfortunately I can’t access past 1889.
John Leslie Edmondson 3rd January 1883
Jane Edmondson 22nd August 1887 died 26th March 1888.
Thomas Edmondson 27th April 1889.
Dee :)
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Hi Dee,
Thanks for those details. With help from you and others, I am gathering quite a lot of information on this Charlotte's family in Queensland. It would be great if I could link her to England with a birth around 1857.
John
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Hi John
I found a marriage which could be Charlotte remarrying after John Edmondson died.
1895/C1191 Charlotte Edmondstone/Arthur Henry Copeman
At the moment I can't get onto the Qld bdm site to check if there is a death for her and if any other details given, that is if she died before 1929.
Some of these names appear in records in the North Qld area........Charters Towers, Townsville, Ayr.
Lots of things still to be found if this is indeed your Charlotte.
Cazay
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Hi John
1908 - 1913 Dunwich The Islands
EDMINSON Thomas Moore - Inmate
There is also a John EDMONSTONE also an inmate in 1908
1913 and 1919 Electoral Roll - Kings Street Charters Towers
EDMONSON John Leslie - Carter EDMONDSON in 1919
COVINGTON William Henry - Carter
COVINGTON Elizabeth Alice - Home Duties
1919 Electoral Roll Niall Station Dalrymple
EDMONSON Thomas Moore - Lab
1925 Electoral Roll Oakey Creek Dalrymple
EDMONSON John Leslie - Miner
EDMONSON Thomas Moore - Miner
EDMONSON William - Miner
Cheers Kris :)
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A link to Burdekin Cemeteries for Covington
http://www.burdekin.qld.gov.au/services/databases/burialregister/
Cazay
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Hi Cazay,
Thanks for your posts about a possible marriage for Charlotte and the COVINGTON burials. I can't get on to the QLD online BMD indexes either. We must have overloaded the website! Very frustrating! I'll try again in the morning. (It is 11.30pm here and I must go to bed soon.)
Thanks again
John
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Hi Kris,
Many thanks for the electoral roll information on COVINGTON and EDMONSON.
I am amazed at how much help I have received and the progress that we have made in a very short time, starting from very little information. Thank you again to everyone who has contributed so far. It is late and I must go to bed now so that I am bright-eyed and bushy-tailed in the morning to renew the hunt.
John
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The QLD online deaths index is up again and I discovered the following:
1898/C2516 COPEMAN, CHARLOTTE - father THOMAS FRY, mother AMELIA ABERCROMBIE.
The name ABERCROMBIE tells me that the QLD Charlotte DID marry Arthur Henry COPEMAN in 1895, after John EDMONDSON died.
But even better than that, Thomas FRY is the name of the head of the household with whom my Charlotte was a boarder in 1871 in Cookham, Maidenhead, Berkshire. Amelia was his wife's name but Charlotte's real mother was Elizabeth ABERCROMBIE. I guess that most of Charlotte's childhood was spent with Thomas and Amelia FRY and so the informant at her death gave those names as her parents. If it was her husband, he had been married to her for only 3 years and may not have known any better.
So I think that confirms that my Charlotte ABERCROMBIE IS the one who emigrated to Queensland. Thank you to eveyone who contributed to this subject. It was a joint effort and we found the answer I was looking for incredibly quickly. I will now try to trace her descendants forward and look for my living cousins!
Thanks again, John
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Great outcome for you, John. :D
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Fantastic news John.
Glad it all fell together for you. There are much later Electoral Roll Entries for these people so hopefully you will find some living descendants.
Cheers Kris :)
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Hello John,
Charlotte Abercrombie was my great-grandmother. She was the mother of my mother's mother, who was Elizabeth Alice Covington. I live in New South Wales, Australia, and spent most of my life in Ayr, North Queensland.
I have only just discovered this site, with your discussion on Charlotte Abercrombie's immigration to Queensland. I realise this was 11 years ago, and I hope you're still active and will receive this message.
I am currently undertaking my own research project into Charlotte's life, which I call "Searching for Charlotte". I found your information on Charlotte's early life interesting and useful, and I would be happy to share with you any information on her life in Queensland that may interest you.
I hope you will receive this message, and are able to reply.
Cheers, Ron
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Charlotte Louisa Abercrombie was born in Cookham Berkshire , England in 1857 and died in Charters Towers ,Australia in 1898 .
Charlotte was my Great grandmother . I have been engaged in researching and writing an account of her life . I live in Australia, and have been able to develop a reasonably comprehensive view of the Australian records of Charlotte's life . However the English parts of her life currently are very sketchy .Accordingly I would appreciate any assistance or advice to fill some of these unknown gaps in her life.
Specifically I am looking for photographs , letters or other information that may be held in English Family Archives .
Thank You ... CharlottesGGS
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Welcome to Rootschat
Births September qtr 1857
Abercrombie Charlotte Louisa Cookham 2c 360
She was illegitimate as no mothers maiden name is shown on her birth registration
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/Login.asp
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The 1861 census - slightly mistranscribed - all b Cookham
William Abercromb 32 head
Harriet 25 sister
Louisa 22 sister
Charlotte 3 niece
RG9 Piece 754 Folio 82 Page 21
Either Harriet or Louisa could be her mother but you would need her birth cert to establish which
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See previous thread on this person: https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=412985
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A new post raised here. Have asked moderator to merge it with this one
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Have asked moderator to merge posts
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William Abercrombie and his sisters had older sister Elizabeth Mary bap 1 October 1826 Berkshire
1851 all 3 girls Elizabeth, Harriet and Mary are all in service as servants.
All have parents as William Abercrombie and Emma
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1841
Maidenhead Cookham Berks
William Abercrombie 40
Emma 41
William 12
Mary 9
Harriet 5
Louise 2
all b Berkshire
maybe this is why the sisters spent time living with brother William
Death registration
Mar qtr 1843 Cookham reg district
Emma Abercromby
Burial
William Abercrombie
age 47
residence Maidenhead
Burial 20 May 1849 St Michael Bray berks
Suz
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Thank you for your prompt responses . In addition to the original posting , I am seeking information in the following areas ...
# Information on Charlotte's education ... and subsequent employment [if any ] in England .
# Information on the relationship between Charlotte and her mother Elizabeth Mary Abercrombie [1826-1915] . Elizabeth outlived her daughter by 17 years . I would be interested to establish details of the relationship between Mother and Daughter both before and after the migration to Australia in 1880.
# Charlotte lived most of her early life in the household of Thomas and Amelia Fry of Cookham . I would appreciate any information relating her time with this family .
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Charlotte lived most of her early life in the household of Thomas and Amelia Fry of Cookham . I would appreciate any information relating her time with this family .
What information leads you to believe Charlotte spent most of her early life with Thomas and Amelia Fry??
1861 Charlotte age 3 was living with her uncle William and her aunts Harriet and Louise - her mother Elizabeth Mary was working as a servant to help pay for her keep as Elizabeth mary's parents both died before 1851 -it seems William tried to keep the family together when they were all orphaned
1871 Charlotte aged 13 described as a scholar was a boarder with Thomas Fry and wife Amelia - I can't find any relationship between them and Charlotte or any other information which has her staying with them other than at the time of the 1871 census
It seems Thomas and Amelia Fry took in lodgers/boarders
Thomas was a butcher and married Amelia East (who was from Great marlow Buckinghamshire ) 7th Nov 1841 in Chelsea London in 1841witnesses were Thomas and Hannah Jewell or Sewell?
27 February 1850 Thomas Fry was convicted of Larceny at Berkshire and given a sentence of imprisonment for 2 years
so 1851 census thomas was in prison and Amelia was living in Cookham area
1851
Amelia Fry M 34 Marlow Bucks
Thomas Fry son 8 Marlow Bucks
Henry Fry son 5 N Town Berks
Eleanor Fry daughter N Town Berks
Richard Fry son 2 N Town Berks
Sarah Webb Lodger 4 Bray berks
James WWebb Lodger 3 Bray Berks
Mary Bates visitor U 26
Jane Bates visitor 3
Joseph Bates visitor 1
(Bates all b Paddington no19 Harrow Rd
so quite a busy household
Maybe Charlotte's mother worked to pay for her to be boarded out ??
Or maybe bastardy records could give information on the father who may/may not have been paying for her keep????
Suz
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Hello Suz, Thank you for this interesting information . Two Comments . With respect to Elizabeth Abercrombie , Charlotte's mother , she was working as a domestic servant in a house at Iver , Buckinghamshire when she fell pregnant with Charlotte . It appears that the father was either unable or unwilling to marry her . I have been unable to uncover his identity . Elizabeth would have lost or resigned her position and returned to the family home at Cookham for the birth . There is no record of any interest or support from the father to Elizabeth or Charlotte .
Your information on the Fry's was interesting . Although the Census records in 1871 , show Charlotte as a Boarder , she must have retained some fond memories of the Fry family . When she married for the second time in 1895 to Arthur Henry Copeman in Charters Towers , Australia , her parents on the Wedding Certificate were recorded as Thomas and Amelia Fry . Elizabeth , her real mother , was still alive at the time !
... Charlottesggs