RootsChat.Com
Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Wexford => Topic started by: KitCarson on Saturday 24 October 09 14:01 BST (UK)
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My GGM, Mary Ronan married James Carson on 1/11/1886 at Our Lady of Reconciliation, Eldan Street Liverpool. James is from Belfast. Mary is shown as a widow and was previously married to John Bowland at St Albans RC Church, Liverpool on 2/12/1882. John died just one year later in 1883. Her father is recorded as Patrick, a Labourer and the 1886 certificate doesn't say that he is deceased.
In the 1911 E&W census Mary has stated that she is from 'Wexford'. I can't find her in the 1881 census and wonder when she could have travelled over. Does anyone have any ideas on how I can trace further back? It's quite frustrating as most of my ancesters arrived in Lancashire from Ireland, either Belfast, Mullingar or Wexford and I am struggling to work out how to get them further back. Are there any passenger lists that might help?
Any help greatly appreciated.
Kit
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Ireland was part of the U.K. so lists weren't kept of people travelling between Ireland and England, Scotland and Wales.
Civil registration for births, deaths and Catholic marriages in Ireland started in 1864 (from 1845 for other marriages)- for earlier dates you'll need to search church records (if they exist).
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Aghadowey, many thanks for that info. I haven't managed to do any real research in Ireland yet. What records survive that might be useful to me, either online or by visiting the various records offices? Are there complete census and civil registration records available?
Really, really hope someone can help.
Kit (Edinburgh)
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Information on civil registration given above and those records are complete. Index is on LDS Pilot site (free) and with the details from index you can order certificates from GRO.
http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#p=collectionDetails;t=searchable;c=1408347
www.groireland.ie/apply_for_a_cert.htm
First complete census for Ireland is 1901. 1911 (latest available) is online (free) and they will be adding 1901 shortly-
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/search
For earlier years only small fragments from a few areas survive.
There are lots of links in WEXFORD RESOURCES & LINKS at the tp of this board and each of the other count boards also have Resources listed as well as a board called IRELAND RESOURCES-
www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,397599.0.html
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Thanks,
I did try the LDS but can't find Mary and there are a few Patricks which I'll need to explore. I'll need to check the resources page and see what comes up.
If there is anyone out there who have a possible connection with Ronans, I'd love to hear from you.
Kit
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If Mary was married first in 1882 it's quite possible that she was born before the start of civil registration in 1864.
Searching for Mary's father Patrick might be difficult without more information (not being listed as deceased on her marriage certificate doesn't prove he was still alive).
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Thanks for your advice. From marriage certs and census she would appear to have been born around 1855. Without anything else to go on I'll just have to work my way through all the Catholic churches in the Wexford area. Wow, just think of all the wonderful holidays I could have in beautiful Wexford. Could take me a lifetime (or my kids) but still worth the effort. Kit
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The problem with the 'all Catholic churches' in Wexford approach is that the records for the church her family belonged to there might not survive.
There's this link on Wexford Parish churches from Resources which gives you an idea of the number of churches in just that area-
http://wexfordparish.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=37&Itemid=49
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Aye, 'problem' it is. I've already been onto the site you gave the link to and noted the information there but realistically, what can I do with only 'Wexford' as a lead? This forum and other similar sites are a great resource and until more information becomes available, I'll have to consider getting out there and visiting. Kit
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Irish researchis very, very difficult without an exact location (parish if not actual townland).
Have you traced Mary forward in English census records in case there's something other than 'Ireland' or 'Wexford' listed- 1911 English census seems to quite good at giving more detail.
See that Mary would have been in her 30s when she married- have you searched earlier U.K. census records in case other relatives also moved to England with her?
I haven't searched English Catholic church registers but some people have mentioned there can be useful details in the records so that might be another source to explore.
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there are six Patrick Ronan's listed on Griffiths valuation ... maybe the locations for these would be starting points for your search.
see : http://www.rootschat.com/links/07ci/
the Co. Wexford records are dated 1853 - so Mary's father could be one of those listed. Do you know what Patrick's occupation was ?
the website to search Griffiths (free) is at : http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/
p.s. I would second what aghadowey mentioned re checking the 1911 census - sometimes there is very detailed birth locations given on this.
Shane
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Appreciate your help. The 1911 census was the breakthrough with 'Wexford'. Worth a look at parish records to see if there is anything else noted. Many thanks. Kit
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Thanks Shane, I'll check these out. Patrick was a labourer. Not much to go on there then! Nothing but labourers or chemical labourers in my line. Not even anything as exotic as a teacher or clerk. Ta, Kit
Afterthought - not quite true, Mary's son James Joseph (Joe, my GF) who died before I was born, was awarded the DCM and MM in 1917 and was a trainer for the great St Helens rugby league football club.
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Today I have made a huge breakthrough with my Ronan family and I hope there are chatters out there who can put some meat around the bones (not a good analogy for a veggie) or may even have known the family members noted below (the younger ones obviously!!).
My GGM, Mary Ronan b circa 1855 moved to Liverpool and before she married my GGF James Carson in 1886, she married John Bo(w)land in 1882. He died in late 1883. Mary and James had at least 4 children (boys) the youngest being Myles. I've been intrigued by this name as it isn't overly common. As quite a lot of children were named after family members, I decided to check the Ronan's. On checking the 1911 Ireland Census, lo and behold! 3 Myles Ronans.
The most interesting of these records was:
Parish: Kilrush, Barony: Scarawalsh, Townland: Ballyandrew
Myles (51), mother Ellen (74) brother Patrick (40) all born Co, Wexford.
Living with them is John Wood (31) nephew born England and Lucy Boland (27) niece born England. Wow!! ;D
Not only that, but on the same schedule, in Ballyrock, is Matthew Ronan (48) wife Mary (40) and 8 children ages ranging from 16-3.
I hadn't even considered that Mary and John Boland could have had a child, as she isn't with the Carson family unit in the 1891/1901/1911 E&W census. I identified a Lucy born around the right time in Liverpool and received the cert this morning. She is the child of John and Mary and must have been born around the same time as John died. :'(
Does anyone have any local knowledge of the Kilrush/Ballyandrew area or the Ronan family that they can share? I wonder why Lucy would have been sent to live in Wexford and not stay with her mum. Can anyone advise on a family church or where I may find earlier records?
I feel a visit coming on!
Kit
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Hi Kit
Just a general thought It seems in Wexford any way that it was common for children to be reared
by Grandparents or other family members My Gfather was born in Little Bolton Lancs but was reared in Wexford I also know of several other cases Whether it was economic family problems or what ever It was very common and a young widow woman might have felt it was best
regards Ann
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Hi Ann
I think your right. There appears to have been a stable family unit right there in Wexford to look after Lucy. I wonder who John Wood's parents were? Must have been a Ronan daughter like Mary who went to England. Another puzzle.
Kit
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hi there my name is patrick ronan my dad is patick ronan his brother myles or myle died in a car crash aged 24 your on the right tr5ack tombrack ferns my dad is patrick 73 remembers alot of history my grandmother grandfathers history
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Hello Patrick, and thanks for getting in touch.
We definitely have the same family. Your dad's dad would have been Matthew who married Cis Burn? His father was another Matthew (b, 1861) who married Mary Bermingham. This Matthew was a younger sibling to my GGM, Mary (b. 1855). She moved to Liverpool and then to St Helens in Lancashire and married James Carson from Belfast.
It's lovely to hear from you. If you make 2 more posts, we can chat via the personal message system.
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Hi Kit I was out Sunday night came home and stumbled across this site. I apologise for the abrupt and mangled post , my faculties were somewhat diminished :-[ .I was surprised to hear back especially so soon as there had been no posts in quite awhile. Yes you are correct about my GD/GM and GGD/GGM .You probably know far more about our extended family than me as i only know bits and pieces I've heard over the years and never delved to deep into my family history.I live in Kildare now but do go to Wexford quite regularly so if you think there is anything i can do to help you don't hesitate to ask....Paddy
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Hi Paddy, I've been eagerly awaiting your reply ;D. One more post from you and we can chat via PM.
I've gained a fair amount of knowledge from Larry Kehoe, who is related through Matthew and Mary Bermingham if my memory serves.
My first visit to Wexford was very recent (early December) and I'm hoping to visit again in the next 6 months to follow up and to do some more research in Dublin.
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If you have visited Wexford there is probably very little i can help you with ..Did you visit Kilrush church also Tombrack school
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Hi Paddy, I've sent you a PM :)
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Sorry to jump in here on on old thread but I'm also interested in the Ronan family in Wexford. I have connections with Ronan's from Cloughbawn. I've always wonder how long they have been in the parish and where they originally came from. I'm curious to know if the two Ronan families are related because Cloughbawn is just on the other side of Enniscorthy compared with Ferns.
Would Kit or Patrick be willing to chat about this ?
Thanks in advance :)
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Hi TFH, just responding in advance of making dinner. Not really much I can share on the 'Ronan Family' and whether they are related to those in Cloughbawn. There are a couple of kin (via email only) that I might ask, and I will do. Kit
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Thanks for such a quick response. Any help would be greatly appreciated. It would be great if your relatives had any knowledge of the origin of the Ronans in that side of Wexford or anything helpful.
What struck me about the previous posts was the prevalence of the name "Patrick". That is also the name which reoccurs in my family on the Ronan side.
Thank you!
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:o sorry TFH, just realised that you're a newbie to Rootschat :-[ Welcome and I'm so glad that you're interested in my Ronan's. No idea where that might take us, but just wanted to welcome you.
Once you've made 3 posts I think you can then PM (personal message) those you might want to further correspond with.
I'll do my best to seek out information relevant to your interests, although as I've mentioned, I don't have anything that I can offer.
Kit
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Thanks for the welcome Kit ;D It would be interesting if there was a connection between these two Ronan families, it's not a very common name too. Fingers crossed one of your relatives might have some family knowledge or stories of their origin. I have only been able to go by documents I have found, parish records/tithe apploments/griffiths etc, and as we know they only go so far back.
That's 3 messages now so I should be able to send PMs now :)
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Hi I’m new here and also interested in Ronan’s of ferns/Ballynaberney/kilrush.. is there a James / Jim Ronan from the area.I think he could be my grandfather
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With all these messages going back to 2009 I don't see a single mention of anyone having checked the Kilrush parish registers? And Ferns also. The Kilrush registers are awful, but still, seems like a significant oversight.
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Hi to all of yous and I know no one is probably reading or going to read this but I'm in the Ronan family and if it's my one, we come from ferns and most of us have lived there for alot of our lives, my generation is one of the only to break the cycle and we have moved to kildare, if you want any information if you haven't figured out this topic or are still interested thank you!
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Hi Mary,nice to hear from you.Is there a Jim Ronan deceased in kilrush that would be a relative or did he have any children
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Hi I have some Ronan's from Wexford in my tree, but Ballymurn area. My GGGrandmother was Mary Ronan (c. 1834-1909). Anyway, I just wanted to let you know that when searching you need to be mindful that the name can be spelled Ronayne as on some of my family graves as well as Ronan.
Regards,
M