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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: newresearcher-71 on Wednesday 28 October 09 12:58 GMT (UK)
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im new and trying to find our family tree n more info but seems like noone can find him his name is George Ham he died 16 August 1830 either windsor or campbelltown so we are lead to believe he has 4 children and was married to ann epton but they parted ways if someone could help me with a death cert look up i was trying to see if he had any siblings but cant find anything on him before he come out from england as he was a convict and transported here in 1800 on the royal admiral for highway robbery please if anyone can help me find his death and maybe his parentas or siblings would be very appreciated
cheers jen
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Hi Jen,
Have you tried googling George Ham Convict? This will bring up a few sites to look at. Also, the link below mentions George.
http://members.iinet.net.au/~gstanden/ham.html
You may already have this info, I'm not sure.
Regards, Julie
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Hi there and welcome to Rootschat.
The New South Wales and Tasmania, Australia Convict Musters, 1806-1849 shows him as travelling out in 1800 on the Royal Admiral with his yoiung family.
Kids James age 12 and Henry age not obvious.It also lists an Ann Ham age 16 but puts her as wife of P Douglas? Not sure what means?
Carol
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Also the Australian Convict Index, 1788-1868 lists him as being 28 in 1800 when he was transported and he was sent to NSW.
Carol
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Bit More,
I cannot find him as George Ham on the 1828 NSW Census....
But, I will try to help....
JM
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thanks all i have this info i guess this will be a tough on to crack i also know after him and ann epton seperated 2 her kids went with her to jerry plains but george was with another women in baulkham hills sydney elizabeth leith but thats all there is i guess its just not going to be able to get more on him :( which makes it hard thankyou all
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Hello there and a big welcome to Rootschat, I hope we can help you further
A search of the SRO ( State Records Office of NSW) shows he received a pardon on the 31 Jan 1814
You can obtain a copy of this for around $25.00
If you live in the Sydney area you can view them at the records office.
This link will help explain what you could find on the records
http://www.records.nsw.gov.au/state-archives/indexes-online/indexes-to-convict-records/index-to-convict-pardons/index-to-convict-pardons
Jenn
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http://home.iprimus.com.au/lturtle/nsw_state_archives.htm
You can also use a transcription agent for around $16.00 not a great deal of saving but it does all help.
Jenn
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Bit More
http://newspapers.nla.gov.au/ndp/del
There's mention of a George Ham, caught in a severe storm in Dec 1804 -
That's from the Sydney Gazette of 16 December 1804....
Cheers, still searching :)
JM
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Umm, bit More,
1822 NSW General Muster
Ham, George on a Conditional Pardon ex R. Admiral was a labourer at Parramatta... His 15 year old son, Ham, Henry, born in the colony was with him.... but I could not find any other family members with these two....
JM
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I see these people on convict musters as shown
1806 muster
Geo Ham, arrived R Adm, employed by D D Mann, Condition P, Indented.
1811 gives his name, ship and Old Bailey as place of conviction
1822 muster:
George Ham CP Sentence life, labourer Parra...(rest of the word is faded but Parramatta seems the most likely)
Henry Ham, 15, Born the Colony, Son of George Ham, Parra....
(CP seems to mean he has been pardoned)
1825 Convict muster all at Richmond,
The following two are listed as having arrived on the Guildford in 1816 but the way it is written it could be a mistake in the transcription where the word 'ditto' is used under the people listed before them.
James Ham, 12, son of G Ham, Richmond
Ann Ham, 16, wife of P Douglas, Richmond
These two are listed having travelled on the Lord Admiral 1800
George Ham, labourer, Richmond
Henry Ham, s/o G Ham, Richmond
So, no mention of a wife, Some questions as to the age of Henry and whether he was born in the Colony. Ann and James are puzzling also.
??? ???
Anyhow that's what I saw on Ancestry from photos of the pages of the musters.
Judith
I cannot see him on the Proceedings of the Odl Bailey either
Edit - now I do see him but he did not come up for me in their index
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Hi there and welcome to Rootschat. The New South Wales and Tasmania, Australia Convict Musters, 1806-1849 shows him as travelling out in 1800 on the Royal Admiral with his yoiung family. Kids James age 12 and Henry age not obvious.It also lists an Ann Ham age 16 but puts her as wife of P Douglas? Not sure what means? Carol
Hi There,
I think this would be from the 1825 Muster, and all these are at Richmond (NSW), where it shows James Ham 12, B C, ie "Born in the Colony" ;) and Ann Ham 16, (B C) wife of P Douglas; George Ham, ex Royal Admiral of 1800, on a C P (Conditional Pardon ;) ), and Henry Ham, BC, ....
I recollect that many women in those times in penal NSW were known by their own surname rather than the surname of their husband... Still stearchin ;)
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The 1828 NSW census shows
Francis Ham, 13, stockkeeper, Durham Hill
Henry Ham, 21, Black Creek (no occupatin shown)
James Ham, 16, Durham Hill, (no occ)
All protestant , all born in colony.
Judith
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Bit More,
1825, at Richmond NSW, General Muster
There's a 20 year old named Philip DOUGLASS a labourer, born in the colony.... also there's a 23 year old named Thomas DOUGLASS, a labourer, born in the colony....
The Philip Douglass could be the husband of Ann Ham aged 16 in 1825 .... I stress, "could be", but it is possible.... and you would need a copy of the marriage certificate to help sort it out.... There's just ONE marriage - althrough two records on NSW BDM for Ann HAM's marriage a P Douglas.... and its in 1825 to a Philip DOUGLASS ... at Richmond NSW...
Cheers, JM
PS I CANNOT FIND GEORGE'S DEATH INDEXED FOR 1830 .....
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Bit More,
Ann and Philip Douglas(s) registered the birth of a child, James in 1827... (NSW BDM references : V1827392 11 and V18277969 1C and V182736 157) ....
IF Ann was (as seems likely) the daughter of George HAM ex Royal Admiral, then this baby may be his first grandchild....
Still looking
JM
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he died 16 August 1830
Can I ask where you got the date from?
it may very well help us in the serch for his death
Information out there in cyber space
Ann Upton arrived in 1806 on the William Pitt and died in 1864 at Jerry’s Plains
Born Anderby, Lincolnshire, England
Children
Ann Ham
Frances Ham
Henry George Ham
James Ham
William Ham
George Ham was born Oxfordshire
Jenn
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Umm,
http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/familyHistory/familyHistory.htm
The Registry holds over 18 million records of events registered in NSW. These records include:
Early Church Records (baptismal, marriages and burials) from 1788 to 1855.
Sorry, but I cannot find on the NSW bdm online site
i) a registration for a marriage between George HAM and an Elizabeth LEITH....
ii) a registration for his death in NSW (not just in 1830, but also not ever !)
iii) a registration for birth/christening of James or Ann.... (although they are noted on the musters as Born in the Colony, it was NOT compulsory to have the births registered)....
However, you note that George died in 1830, so the 1838 arrival via assisted passage of a lass aged 23 year old and named Elizabeth LEITH could not be his partner.
BUT, I can find at the NSW bdm online site the CHRISTENING registration for three possible children to George and Ann :
1807 Henry G; 1816 Frances ; and 1820 Frances
Not sure if I can help you further....
Cheers, JM
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Jm..
you have certianly tried your best to find anything further.
As registrations didn"t start until 1855 everything prior to that relied mainly on the church records.
It will be very interesting to see where the death date came from
kind thoughts Jenn
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its what i got when i did a searched for our family i have seen 2 dates 16 august 1830 and one for about 1868 i was on my father ancestorywhen i was looking for things there you see
George has a son james who was born 1812 who had children henry george james ham 1840 who then he had children who had joseph Augustus ham born 1878 who is my lineage hes OUR GRANDFATHER FATHER he then had children and clele joseph was born 1918 this is OUR GRANDFATHER then he had a son who was born 1939 bj who is my Father Inlaw who then had a child born 1963 who is my HUSBAND Cj and then he had a son WHO IS MY SON Ttj born 1996
we also were given some information from back after the grandfather had passed away and this were we get some of george information from also im so sorry i feel like im a pain im so sorry thanks to everyone for all your help i also have read that when ann Epton and George parted he was with an elizabeth leith in baulkham hills but not sure if they ever married
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i didnt know ann epton had 5 children with george i only new of 4 henry james ann and frances is this correct there were 5?
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Hi there,
Please don't ever even consider that you are a "pain", I enjoy helping here at Rootschat, and although I have never met Judith I am positive she also enjoys helping...
Please may I ask you one special thing.... Please just go and modify your last message, and delete the names of your family who are alive... Its to protect their privacy....
Many happy thoughts from Moi to You
JM
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Please do not feel you are bing a pain as you put it we are all happy to help, otherwise we wouldn't reply to your requests.
I also enjoy helping out folk
I am only going on information that I have found, that lists five children.
Anything that we can do we will
Jenn
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You're not a pain at all- it's like a mighty jigsaw puzzle finding these long-gone folk. This one is especially interesting with the differing pieces of information.
Did you read the link that Julie put up in the first reply to you.? There is an email contact for the person who put that information together so perhaps contacting him might be worthwhile. He has a couple of things on there that don't fit with the records, but then the records are not consistent ewither.
My thoughts are that George's death was never registered which would obviously mean that it won't be found. Do we have a death for Elizabeth LEITH? Perhaps that may give a clue.
Oh bother - have to cook dinner!!
Judith
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did anyone have any luck with george ham could he maybe of died in windsor as i have read he was living in baulkham hills with elizabeth leith could he and her be defacto you think again thanks for all help and does it say when tthey child william was born i only have a listing as 4 thou
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If you read the link that Julie gave you, you will see it said they had four children that survived to adulthood so it is possible that one died young.,
Jenn
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have have been informed george was born in goring on 14.10.1770 and died 1830 at campbelltown (to which im still not to sure of this year)and his father being richard ham n mother hannah to which they married 1755 going heath england so i will have to go and look on this now thankyou for your help...can anyone help me by telling me where i can search these or any other good sites to search for family struff would appreciate it thanks in advance jen
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Bit More,
Re Elizabeth LEITH
In 1825 Muster, an Elizabeth LEITH ex the Glatton of 1803, sentenced for 7 years and thus free by servitude was living with her husband at Windsor. His name : JOHN ALLEN ... Umm, a puzzle !
JM
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Bit More
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/board,399.0.html
This is the link to the main Australian Resources Board here at RChat... I tend to use many of the links available on that Board to find the indexed information and then I try to find the official records that either confirm or disprove my findings...
As you are located in Sydney, then there's some very good research facilities quite handy to you.... Perhaps a visit to the Parramatta Heritage Centre and a chat with the archivist upstairs who will be able to direct you to their archives .... they were fantastic when I got there several years ago...
Many cheers
JM
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Umm,
Bit More,
1822 Muster has an Elizabeth LEITH on it but she was BORN in the Colony, and aged 6, and living with Harriet LEITH ex the convict ship Maria....
This may indicate there were several females named Elizabeth LEITH, for afterall I have also read on that link from Julie where the poster on that site notes "In the 1822 Muster George is listed as living in Baulkham Hills with Elizabeth Leith, also a convict.".... but I have gone through my 1822 Muster records and cannot find supporting info... Sorry.
JM
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Very interesting reading all the info about George Ham. I have recently come across him in England before he was transported. He was “co-habiting” with a Jane Peters, and they had an illegitimate daughter, Matilda Jane, baptised at St Leonard’s, Shoreditch in 1800 with the surname Ham. Jane appears in Poor Law Removal and Settlement Orders in January 1801 needing help as George had been transported, but the Overseers and Churchwardens in St Leonard’s passed her back to the Parish of Old Windsor in Berks, where she had previously been employed as a nursery maid.
In 1828 Matilda is baptised again with the surname Peters in Thames Ditton, along with her two illegitimate children Richard and Emma. Their reputed father is George Danvers Jenkins, a gentleman, who marries Matilda in 1831, then they have two more children, Catherine and Robert. On George and Matilda’s marriage record, her father’s occupation is given as Watchmaker, which doesn’t fit with the transportation records where he’s described as a Labourer, but as Matilda had never met him, she probably didn’t know much about him, and I gather that information about paternal occupations was quite often glamourised!!
Emma Jenkins carries on the family tradition by having two children with William Riley Stanford in 1848 and 1849, then marries him in 1856!
I have also seen on some other Trees that George Ham- (I’m not entirely certain it’s the same one at the moment)-had a marriage in England to an Anne, and some children with her, before he was with Jane Peters.