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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Durham => Topic started by: brushbroomstick on Sunday 01 November 09 12:57 GMT (UK)
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For some tome now I have been trying to find the death of my gr gr grandfather James HENRY born c 1821 in Londomderry.
He married and had children in Newcastle upon Tyne/ Durham - the last child Elizabeth being born in County Durham in the June Qtr. of 1857. His wife Joan remarried in April 1860 but try as I may I have not been able to find the death of James.
I sent for a death cert. for Oct. 1856 in Easington which I thought was sure to be his but it turned out to be for an infant.
I have looked up all the deaths for James HENRY for the whole of England from Sept. 1856 to Dec 1859 and have come up with 9. I did this because he was a coalminer and I thought perhaps he had died away from his home.
I have also looked up all the various lists of men killed in pit disasters from 1856 to 1859 throughout the country but again with no success apart from one in Bardsley Ashton under Lyme on 2/2/1858 where there is a "james (surname unknown) a stranger ". I thiought perhaps this could be him but have not found a corresponding death registration.
Any help would be appreciated.
Irene
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on the first line of your post his name is thomas henry
after that you refer to him as james henry
is it thomas henry or james henry we are looking for
mick
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Hi
I can't find a marriage for Joan - should it be Jean?
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Hi all,
1851 census shows James & Joan HENRY - so just a typo in the heading I think!
at Market Place, St.Andrew, Auckland
HO107 Piece 2385 Folio 208 Page 25
James 29 Coke Burner Londonderry Ireland
Joan 28 Northumberland Kenton
William 8 Durham Pelton
Thomas 6 Durham Framwellgate Moor
Margaret 4 Durham " "
Teasdale 1 Durham Sunnybrow
1861 census shows Elizabeth b. Gateshead + 2 further children to the remarriage b.1858 and 1860, so as Irene says, death for James should be 1856-1858, and either Auckland or Gateshead
Irene, it's best to check for known details with the local registrar (usually free) or with the GRO (who charge for checking), before parting with your £7 cert fee
Barbara
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I can't find a marriage for Joan - should it be Jean?
marriage possible?
Mar 1842 Newcastle Tyne 25 305
HENRY James and on same page STOTT Joan
The 1860 marriage has forename as Jean on freebmd index, but image shows Joan
Irene, have you checked this marriage cert to confirm that Joan was a widow when she married George Peverly?
Barbara
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I had thought about checking the birth record of child Elizabeth to see whether father was shown as deceased.
I do not have the marriage certificate of Joan and George Peverley. I think the child born 1858 was to a previous marriage of George Peverley but that needs further investigation.
Irene
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I had thought about checking the birth record of child Elizabeth to see whether father was shown as deceased.
That's a good idea, would narrow down the possible death date - of course it's possible they were divorced, haven't been able to find his death as yet unless as you thought, he might have been working away from home
Barbara
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Just to confuse the issue there's a Sunderland burial for a James Henry age 30 in 1851 (Durham Records Online). I've just had a quick look at the 1851 census and there doesn't appear to be a James Henry in Sunderland, but I might've missed him, so I wonder if your man went there for work after the census or if it's just a coincidence.
Elizabeths birth cert/ baptism might well be worth a look. (sorry, there are so many illegitimate children in my tree it's nearly always my first thought ;D)
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In 1851 my James was with his wife Joan and 4 children living at Market Place Bishops Auckland. His occupation was "Coke Burner". Just to be misleading I thought he was a coal miner!
Irene
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The James who died in Sunderland was a Labourer, not ruling him out though Angelfish, age is right
burial Sunderland Holy Trinity
30 Jun 1851 James Henry, of 11 Robinson's Lane, age 30, died 29 Jun 1851 labourer
just trying to find Robinsons Lane in 1851 census to see if he was there then
Barbara
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If this was the death of my James HENRY then who was the father of my gr gr grandmother's children born in 1854 and 1857?
My James could not have been in Sunderland at the 1851 census as he was living with his wife and chidren in Bishop Auckland.
I must get the birth certificate of Elizabeth born 1857.
Irene
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We're not saying your James was in Sunderland, just that a James died there. I don't think it is the right one, but, to eliminate that death (in case James was away from home when he died) - if we find this James in Sunderland in 1851 census then we know it's not your James.
The 1851 census was taken 30/31st March and the death was 29th June, so it is a possibility, as I said, just trying to eliminate him
Barbara :)
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But I have a copy of the 1851 census showing he was at home in Bishop Auckland on the night of the census.
Irene
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brush broomstick
i think what ecneps is saying is that although you know your man was at home on the night of the 1851 census the death in sunderland occurred after that census
what she wants to find is another james in sunderland on the night of the census
this would then probably be the james that died later that year and he could then be discounted.
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brush broomstick
i think what ecneps is saying is that although you know your man was at home on the night of the 1851 census the death in sunderland occurred after that census
what she wants to find is another james in sunderland on the night of the census
this would then probably be the james that died later that year and he could then be discounted.
Exactly. Basically we're looking for a death for a man named James Henry born in 1821 and on that basis the Sunderland man fits the bill. However, I don't think anyone is convinced that this is your James Henry but now he's turned up he needs to be considered. It's also possible that James could've gone back to Ireland and died there.
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I have been looking through my certificates and on the marriage certificate of William HENRY (son of James born 1821) in 1865 his father is shown as James HENRY "miner" but not shown as deceased. How likely is it that he would not be shown as deceased if he was?
If James was still alive in 1865 that would make his wife Joan a bigamist as she married George PEVERLEY in 1860.
Irene
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that he is not shown as deceased is not at all uncommon
i think but i am not positive that it is down to the registrar to pose the question whether the father is deceased or not
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Thanks Wozzzle
Thats another line of enquiry out of the window.
Irene
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I have been looking at births for the children of James Henry and Joan and find on the 1861 census (when Joan is now married to George Peverley) the children Mary , Jane and Elizabeth HENRY are shown as age 9, 7 & 4 respectively.
The only birhs for these names (from Free BMD) are Mary in Sept 1853,Jane Ann in Mar 1854 both in Newcastle and Elizabeth in Sept 1855 in Gateshead. Mary or Jane Ann could be a sibling of Elizabeth but both of them could not .
There is an entry for a death of a James HENRY im Jun 1855 in Newcastle which could tie in with the birth of Elizabeth.
I will have to bite the bullet and pay for all the certificates I think.
Irene
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I sent for the Birth Cert for Elizabeth Henry born Sept qtr 1855 and it is not the right one.
I have just received the marriage cert for Joan Henry and George Peverley showing that Joan was a widow and George a batchelor.
The child George Peverley born c 1858 shown on the 1861 census as "son" was therefore the illegitimate son of Joan and George who did not marry until April 1860. This still does not help with the date of death of James Henry unless I can find a correct birth for Elizabeth Henry shown on 1861 census as "daughter "and age as 4. I don't know where I got the previous information that her birth was registered in Sept qtr 1857 in Gateshead because I can't find it again.
Irene
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I sent for the Birth Cert for Elizabeth Henry born Sept qtr 1855 and it is not the right one.
You should have heeded the advice given by Ecneps about checking details with the local register office. It will save you a lot of money if you do that! It might be worth writing to the local office about the death for James. Just in case it failed to make it onto the GRO index. That does happen occasionally.
Andrea
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I don't know which would be the local Register Office . It may be Gateshead or Newcastle.
Irene
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It will be whatever town he lived in. If you search on Freebmd then you can click on the place and it brings up a link that tells you all about the district. Very useful to see the smaller places that are included in that registration district. Worth trying any in the local area just in case.
Andrea
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I have not been able to find him after the 1851 census when he was in Bishop Auckland.
The Henry children I am trying to find were born c 1852 in Gateshead, c 1854 in Newcastle and c 1857 in Gateshead while the illegitimate son was born c 1858 in Gateshead. I have been unable to find any of them in Free BMD.
Irene
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I have been in contact with the Register Office in Gateshead and they too cannot find any trace of James Henry's death or the births of his children, Mary c 1852, Jane c 1854 and Elizabeth c 1857 and of George Peverley c 1858.
I have checked Free BMD and all the deaths and births of the whole country from 1850 to 1859 on Find My Past.
I am at a loss where to look now.
The only thing I can think of is that perhaps the 1861 census got the names and ages of the children mixed up. I found Elizabeth Henry Sept 1851 Gateshead (census shows Mary age 9), Jane Ann Mar 1854 Newcastle (census shows Jane age 7) and a Mary Dec 1857( census shows Elizabeth age 4) . The only George Peverley I have found waas registered Sept 1854 (census shows age 3)
Irene
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Would you know if these Peverleys are connected to Thomas Russell Peverley. 1919-1968?
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I have been in contact with the Register Office in Gateshead and they too cannot find any trace of James Henry's death or the births of his children, Mary c 1852, Jane c 1854 and Elizabeth c 1857 and of George Peverley c 1858.
I have checked Free BMD and all the deaths and births of the whole country from 1850 to 1859 on Find My Past.
I am at a loss where to look now.
The only thing I can think of is that perhaps the 1861 census got the names and ages of the children mixed up. I found Elizabeth Henry Sept 1851 Gateshead (census shows Mary age 9), Jane Ann Mar 1854 Newcastle (census shows Jane age 7) and a Mary Dec 1857( census shows Elizabeth age 4) . The only George Peverley I have found waas registered Sept 1854 (census shows age 3)
Irene
Would you like me to check for you?
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I don't know of any connection but Peverley is not a very common name.
My George Peverley was a prisoner in Durham jail in 1891 aged 30 and he died in 1898.
I would appreciate you checking any connection.
Irene
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I had a widow in the 1881 census with a 6 month old child at home--so I figured--6 months plus 9 months. Couldn't find his death anywhere and he had a more unusual first name--Sylvester. I finally ordered the last child's birth cert--no father named. Found the death-5 years before from a mining accident. I looked in the Durham Mining site but his name was pretty butchered to Silas. She had 3 children as a widow. I found that the legitimate children received payments from the mining fund and but the ones she had after did not. She received funds until she remarried. The children until they were 12/13 or maybe it was 13/14. You never know where you might find a skeleton in the closet.
Janis
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I don't know of any connection but Peverley is not a very common name.
My George Peverley was a prisoner in Durham jail in 1891 aged 30 and he died in 1898.
I would appreciate you checking any connection.
Irene
I'll be happy to. My Peverleys are from that area as well. Sunderland to be exact and I have seen information for George before so I'll send you a private message with what I have in just a bit. I just need to gather it. :)
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I had a widow in the 1881 census with a 6 month old child at home--so I figured--6 months plus 9 months. Couldn't find his death anywhere and he had a more unusual first name--Sylvester. I finally ordered the last child's birth cert--no father named. Found the death-5 years before from a mining accident. I looked in the Durham Mining site but his name was pretty butchered to Silas. She had 3 children as a widow. I found that the legitimate children received payments from the mining fund and but the ones she had after did not. She received funds until she remarried. The children until they were 12/13 or maybe it was 13/14. You never know where you might find a skeleton in the closet.
Janis
Beautiful coat of arms. ;)
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I found a death registration for James M. O. Henry b. 1821 d. 1866, Newcastle and James Henry, Wolstantin, Staffordshire. Could that be it?
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Dear Rebelchick,
Your post with the death info from Ancestry will probably be removed as it breaches copyright, but that is not why I'm replying.
The James M Henry Death in Newcastle is not James M. O. (as in initaials) But James. M age 0.
But the second one maybe a good find.
Thanks for helping, cheers Ted
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Dear Rebelchick,
Your post with the death info from Ancestry will probably be removed as it breaches copyright, but that is not why I'm replying.
The James M Henry Death in Newcastle is not James M. O. (as in initaials) But James. M age 0.
But the second one maybe a good find.
Thanks for helping, cheers Ted
Dang, I just sent the moderator sillgen a message about that. We're allowed to copy that stuff since I'm a paid member but I'll go ahead and modify it. Thanks. ;)
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Dear Rebelchick,
Your post with the death info from Ancestry will probably be removed as it breaches copyright, but that is not why I'm replying.
The James M Henry Death in Newcastle is not James M. O. (as in initaials) But James. M age 0.
But the second one maybe a good find.
Thanks for helping, cheers Ted
How do I remove it? ???
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Mods will do it - dont worry!
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Mods will do it - dont worry!
Thanks. Wow I've screwed up twice in the last 24 hours. I'll be outside in my sack cloth beating myself with chains and calling myself Edna, lol. :D
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Mods will do it - dont worry!
I figured it out. you just have to modify then go to other options and uncheck the boxes next to the pics. Yay! Well I did something right, lol. ;)
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Good one Rebelchick - I did something similar to you and found bright red and blue writing all over my posts - it was a big shock.
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Good one Rebelchick - I did something similar to you and found bright red and blue writing all over my posts - it was a big shock.
Thank you. I don't feel so alone now :-[. Poor sillgen must be ready to boot my Texas butt off here. Silgens been very nice about it all though. ;)
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Was James mother named Ann by chance?
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I'm showing the death of a James Henry in 1861 and it's an infant son. Now, quite possibly James was still alive, perhaps in 1861? Or, I guess his widow could have been pregnant at the time of his death maybe? It was Newcastle upon Tyne. ???
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Do you have James father's name? I have James Henry d. 1901 Newcastle Upon Tyne.
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Hi all
Glad you have been enjoying yourselves overnight! This might help show a few of the dos and don'ts.
http://www.rootschat.com/help/posting_guide.php
Andrea
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One way or another, I'm danged determined to find this for you. Just bugs me when I can't find something. I'm on a mission from the Gods, lol. ;)
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Hi all
Glad you have been enjoying yourselves overnight! This might help show a few of the dos and don'ts.
http://www.rootschat.com/help/posting_guide.php
Andrea
Lol, the Texan struck again, {{blush, blush}}, I'll be sure to read it, lol. :)
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Hi all,
1851 census shows James & Joan HENRY - so just a typo in the heading I think!
at Market Place, St.Andrew, Auckland
HO107 Piece 2385 Folio 208 Page 25
James 29 Coke Burner Londonderry Ireland
Joan 28 Northumberland Kenton
William 8 Durham Pelton
Thomas 6 Durham Framwellgate Moor
Margaret 4 Durham " "
Teasdale 1 Durham Sunnybrow
1861 census shows Elizabeth b. Gateshead + 2 further children to the remarriage b.1858 and 1860, so as Irene says, death for James should be 1856-1858, and either Auckland or Gateshead
Irene, it's best to check for known details with the local registrar (usually free) or with the GRO (who charge for checking), before parting with your £7 cert fee
Barbara
That is very true. I enter UK records for an online genealogy base and it's not uncommon to see someone put John instead of James or the reverse when entering records. However, they do get checked twice. One by the person entering the date, the second is an arbitrator so we do try to be very careful and accurate. ;)
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My James Henry was born c 1820 in Londonderry and I do not have a mothers name. His father was Thomas Henry , a shoemaker.
The 1861 child is incrrect for my James as his WIDOW remarried in April 1860 to George Peverley , BATCHELOR and had a daughter Emma in April 1861. The funny thing is in 1861 census the couple have a son George Peverley aged 3. I cannot find a birth for this child although in 1891 census he is in Durham jail aged 30 .
I have already checked with the Registrars in both Newcastle and Gateshead for Henry children Mary , Jane and Elizabeth and for the child George Peverley but they can find no trace either.
Irene
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My James Henry was born c 1820 in Londonderry and I do not have a mothers name. His father was Thomas Henry , a shoemaker.
The 1861 child is incrrect for my James as his WIDOW remarried in April 1860 to George Peverley , BATCHELOR and had a daughter Emma in April 1861. The funny thing is in 1861 census the couple have a son George Peverley aged 3. I cannot find a birth for this child although in 1891 census he is in Durham jail aged 30 .
I have already checked with the Registrars in both Newcastle and Gateshead for Henry children Mary , Jane and Elizabeth and for the child George Peverley but they can find no trace either.
Irene
I think I may already have information on George Peverley being as I'm working on the Peverley of Sunderland. I've only just started on them this week. I'll check through my information and post it for you and I'll continue the search. I'm sure we can find what you're looking for eventually.
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My James Henry was born c 1820 in Londonderry and I do not have a mothers name. His father was Thomas Henry , a shoemaker.
The 1861 child is incrrect for my James as his WIDOW remarried in April 1860 to George Peverley , BATCHELOR and had a daughter Emma in April 1861. The funny thing is in 1861 census the couple have a son George Peverley aged 3. I cannot find a birth for this child although in 1891 census he is in Durham jail aged 30 .
I have already checked with the Registrars in both Newcastle and Gateshead for Henry children Mary , Jane and Elizabeth and for the child George Peverley but they can find no trace either.
Irene
This is what I have on Emma Peverley: According to the 1841 Census Gatesden
Emma, age 11, born c 1830, Durham
Resides with Christopher Peverley age 35, a laborer
Mary Peverley age 30
John Peverley age 7
George Peverley age 4
Thomas Peverley age 2
I'll keep looking though. I hope this helps so far. ;)
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My James Henry was born c 1820 in Londonderry and I do not have a mothers name. His father was Thomas Henry , a shoemaker.
The 1861 child is incrrect for my James as his WIDOW remarried in April 1860 to George Peverley , BATCHELOR and had a daughter Emma in April 1861. The funny thing is in 1861 census the couple have a son George Peverley aged 3. I cannot find a birth for this child although in 1891 census he is in Durham jail aged 30 .
I have already checked with the Registrars in both Newcastle and Gateshead for Henry children Mary , Jane and Elizabeth and for the child George Peverley but they can find no trace either.
Irene
Sorry, Gateshead not Gatesden.
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My James Henry was born c 1820 in Londonderry and I do not have a mothers name. His father was Thomas Henry , a shoemaker.
The 1861 child is incrrect for my James as his WIDOW remarried in April 1860 to George Peverley , BATCHELOR and had a daughter Emma in April 1861. The funny thing is in 1861 census the couple have a son George Peverley aged 3. I cannot find a birth for this child although in 1891 census he is in Durham jail aged 30 .
I have already checked with the Registrars in both Newcastle and Gateshead for Henry children Mary , Jane and Elizabeth and for the child George Peverley but they can find no trace either.
Irene
This is what I have for Mary Henry: 1891 Census address 28 Tyne Rd. East born Jarrow, Durham c1871
William Henry 48 grocer
Elizabeth Henry 49
Mary Henry 20
William Jno Henry 18
James Henry 16
Isabella Henry 14
Margaret Henry 13
Elizabeth Henry 10
Ellen Henry 8
Ethel Henry 6
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My James Henry was born c 1820 in Londonderry and I do not have a mothers name. His father was Thomas Henry , a shoemaker.
The 1861 child is incrrect for my James as his WIDOW remarried in April 1860 to George Peverley , BATCHELOR and had a daughter Emma in April 1861. The funny thing is in 1861 census the couple have a son George Peverley aged 3. I cannot find a birth for this child although in 1891 census he is in Durham jail aged 30 .
I have already checked with the Registrars in both Newcastle and Gateshead for Henry children Mary , Jane and Elizabeth and for the child George Peverley but they can find no trace either.
Irene
Here's what I found for James Henry in the 1851 census.
Bishop Auckland
Auckland St Andrew
James Henry 29 b Londonderry
Joan Henry 28
William Henry 8
Thomas Henry 6
Margaret Henry 4
Foasdale Henry 1
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My James Henry was born c 1820 in Londonderry and I do not have a mothers name. His father was Thomas Henry , a shoemaker.
The 1861 child is incrrect for my James as his WIDOW remarried in April 1860 to George Peverley , BATCHELOR and had a daughter Emma in April 1861. The funny thing is in 1861 census the couple have a son George Peverley aged 3. I cannot find a birth for this child although in 1891 census he is in Durham jail aged 30 .
I have already checked with the Registrars in both Newcastle and Gateshead for Henry children Mary , Jane and Elizabeth and for the child George Peverley but they can find no trace either.
Irene
I have found a death record for James Henry in 1841, Newcastle, Tyne Jan, Feb, Mar register.
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Could James mother be named Mary or Martha?
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The Peverleys in the 1841 census are the parents of George Peverley Snr (born 1836). The Emma Peverley on the same census is obviously his sister.
The George Peveley who died in 1898 was the son of George Peverley 1836 as was the Emma Peverley born 1861. I know the mother of this Emma was Joan Henry nee Stott and who was probably the mother of George Peverley c 1858 who must have been born to Joan Henry and George Peverley out of wedlock as they did not marry until April 1860 when Joan was shown as widowed and George as Batchelor.
The 1891 census for the Henry family does not appear to fit.
Irene
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The Peverleys in the 1841 census are the parents of George Peverley Snr (born 1836). The Emma Peverley on the same census is obviously his sister.
The George Peveley who died in 1898 was the son of George Peverley 1836 as was the Emma Peverley born 1861. I know the mother of this Emma was Joan Henry nee Stott and who was probably the mother of George Peverley c 1858 who must have been born to Joan Henry and George Peverley out of wedlock as they did not marry until April 1860 when Joan was shown as widowed and George as Batchelor.
The 1891 census for the Henry family does not appear to fit.
Irene
Okay, back to the drawing board, lol. I'll let you know what I come up with. ;)
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AT LAST!
I have found the death of my gr gr grandfather James Henry. He died of Cholera in Newcastle on 13 Sept 1853 - 6 months before the birth of his child Jane Ann in Newcastle
What threw me was the fact that there was a child Elizabeth Henry aged 4 born in Gateshead shown on the 1861 census living with her mother and her mother's new husband George Peverley whom she married on 9 Apr 1860. There was also a son George Peverley aged 3. These two children would appear to be the offspring of Joan Henry and George Peverley.
I have been unable to find birth or baptism records for these two children although George jr is in Durham jail in 1891. I have still been unable to find anything further on Elizabeth Henry.
However this is progress.
Irene
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Would you know if these Peverleys are connected to Thomas Russell Peverley. 1919-1968?
What is your interest in Thomas Russell Peverley as I may be able to assist?