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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => London & Middlesex Lookup Requests => London and Middlesex => England => London & Middlesex Completed Lookup Requests => Topic started by: natureslight on Tuesday 10 November 09 17:51 GMT (UK)
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Hi everyone, I am new to all of this so please be patient with me :) Upon searching through my family history a story has come to light, how true it is, I don't know, but I would be grateful if someone could fill in the gaps. A story has been passed down through the generations that one of my relatives (within the last 2 centuries) was born in the Tower of London, apparently the father was a Beefeater and the pregnant wife was visiting him and went into labour. The child was given the freedom of the city. Apparently it was on my paternal great gandparents side, the furthest I have traced back thus far is my great grandparents on that side, they are Charles Edward Stokes born born 1896 in Edmonton married Winifred Alma Wescott December 1912 in Thanet she was born in March 1885 in Whitechapel. Any help would be gratefully received as this side of the family I'm really stuck on.
Thank you
Mark Stokes
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the only ccharles edward stokes born in edmonton that i can see was born in 1886 not 1896
is this yours.
if as you originally say he was born in 1896 that would make him 16 when he married?
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Thank you for that, it may be 86, I have only just started researching this branch, so you may be correct.
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Charles Edward Stokes born born 18?6 in Edmonton married Winifred Alma Wescott December 1912 in Thanet she was born in March 1885 in Whitechapel.
have you got the marriage Cert to show Fathers name and occupation for Charles?
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sorry ignore that one he died in 1886 in edmonton
you will definately need the marr cert
that will tell you his age and also his fathers name and occupation
we should then be able to trace back through the censusers
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Sorry no birth cert at moment, only started on this branch today. I'm v.new to genealogy only started last friday, so it may take some time to fit all the people together. Have managed to trace (with help) one side of my family back to 1612. But I want to start on my surname now plus its a little mystery as to the Tower of London connection, if there is any in reality!!!
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Hi
Welcome to Rootschat.
The Tower of London I believe is just outside the square mile of the City of London.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tower_of_London
The parish church of the Tower of London is St Peter ad Vincula
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_Peter_ad_Vincula_(London)
I don't think a birth in the Tower would be a reason for being given the Freedom of the City of London. I think to be a Freeman you have to be an adult (21 years). This webpage gives information on who was awarded Freedom of the City and for what reasons.
http://www.cityoflondon.gov.uk/nr/rdonlyres/155d63ec-c7bf-4b8f-b7d2-9574c07fe071/0/cityfreedom.pdf
Winifred's birth registration
Births Mar 1885 WESTCOTT Winifred Alma Whitechapel 1c 363
but her marriage seems to be to a Charles A Stokes. Is this a misprint in the GRO index and it should be E not A?
Marriages Dec 1912
Stokes Charles A Westcott Thanet 2a 2344
Westcott Winifred A Stokes Thanet 2a 2344
You need to order the marriage certificate for further information on Charles.
Regards
Valda
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Hi
1891 census RG12 1082 folio 64
15 Maldon Road Edmonton
John E Westcott 42 Head Married Colour sergeant instructor to Infantry Volunteers Drewsteignton Devon
Elizabeth A Westcott 34 Wife Married Barkham, Rutland
Sidney E Westcott 10 Son Hampstead Middlesex
Winifred A Westcott 6 Daughter Tower London
Ralph T Westcott 5 Son Chelsea Middlesex
Horace V Westcott 5 Son Chelsea Middlesex
Percy R Westcott 3 Son Edmonton Middlesex
Stanley L Westcott 11/12 Son Edmonton Middlesex
Regards
Valda
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Thank you all for your warm welcome to your site.
My Gt grandfather was Charles E Stokes (Edward) a middle name which was passed to my grandfather Arthur Edward Stokes. And thanks you so much Valda for the icing ;D.
Regards Mark
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Hi
Having looked at a family tree on the internet it says
Winifred Alma Westcott born 2nd December 1884 Tower of London. Died 9th December 1963.
Married Charles Arthur Stokes born 11th May 1888. Died 15th October 1976.
Confirmed by the civil registration index
Birth June quarter 1888 STOKES Charles Arthur registration district St. Saviour volume 1d Page 61
Death December quarter 1976 STOKES Charles Arthur born 11th May 1888, death registered Penzance volume 21 Page 0332
The tree says his father was George and his mother Susan nee Shepperd 1855-1935.
This looks to be his baptism
St Michael And All Angels Southwark Baptised 17th July 1888 born 11th May
Charles Arthur Stokes parents George Eban and Susan, 28 ? Street, father's occupation ironmonger's assistant.
Regards
Valda
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Wow, Valda I'm astounded by both your knowledge seeking and the mysteries that it has bought up, I knew my great grandfather up until I was 14 yrs old, and yes he did live just outside Penzance as did I, so it is the correct person. His son (my grandfather was Arthur Edward Stokes) so it does seem that there is another little mystery there. Maybe my gt grandfather liked the name Edward, mind you I don't think that I will mention this to my 20yr old son whom I called ------ Edward -------- (because I assumed that Edward was a family middle name)
Regards
Mark
Moderator Comment:
Edited in accordance with RootsChat policy of not publishing details of living people here, or details of people who may still be living. This is to protect all concerned from spam, identity abuse, internet abuse, etc, etc.
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Hi
Winifred's parents' marriage
Marriages Mar 1882
Knight Elizabeth Alma Windsor 2c 615
WESTCOTT John Windsor 2c 615
and Charles'
Marriages Dec 1876
Sheppard Susan St. Olave 1d 437
Stokes George Evan St. Olave 1d 437
The tree gives Winifred's parents as Edward John Westcott (seems to have prefered the name John but that maybe where the Edward came from) 1849-5th June 1921 and Elizabeth Alma Knight 1857-7th July 1927.
Their first child listed on the tree to John and Elizabeth is Louisa Westcott 1882-1884 so it looks as if Sidney was born before their marriage.
Births Sep 1880 WESTCOTT Sydney Edward Hampstead 1a 668
1881 census RG11 16 folio ?
13 Hyde Park Street Paddington, London
Alma Knight 24 Servant Unmarried Housemaid domestic Oakham, Rutland
1881 census RG11 79 folio 100
Chelsea Barracks Chelsea, London
John Westcott 32 Head Widower Colour Sergeant Drewstanton, Devon
Sydney Westcott Under ? Son Westminster London
Possible death registration for Sidney's mother but you would have to get his birth certificate to be sure when searching for his mother and John's first marriage.
Deaths Dec 1880 Westcott Mary Ann 32 Marylebone 1a 360
Regards
Valda
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Hi
Yes definitely Edward.
1851 census HO107 1885 folio 605
Crockerwell? Drewsteignton Devon
Thomas Westcott 50 Head Married Thatcher Bridford Devon
Sarah Westcott 47 Wife Married Worlington Devon
George Westcott 9 Son Drewsteignton Devon
John Edwd Westcott 2 Son Drewsteignton Devon
plus 2 servants
Regards
Valda
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Woah Valda, This is getting surreal, you are turning up more information quicker than I can read it!!! It feels as though portions of my family history are falling into place like the proverbial jigsaw, how do you do it!!!
Regards
Mark :)
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Hi
It is just experience.
Regards
Valda
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Hi,
Good experience you have, and thank you for your help, its a good start and a lot of information for a novice to handle and collate.
Thank you again.
Mark
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I know this posting was a long time ago (now Xmas 2011), BUT John Edward is also my great grandfather. He was in the Grenadier Guards, and is buried in Perranzabuloe, Cornwall. His Edmonton home no longer exists
Got a bit more info if you haven't alreadt finished researching this.
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Hi, I'm still on the family tree, but another branch at the moment.
Any new information on John Edward would be gratefully received.
Kind Regards and seasons greetings
Mark
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Hi
There's quite a lot to be found at the National Archives about John Edward Westcott. Much is from Pay Lists, but this summary fromxxxx may be of interest
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Sorry,clicked too soon:
TNA WO 97/4136 includes detailed service and discharge records. Service: Home,28 Sept 1870 -30 July 1882; Egypt 31 July 1882-13 Nov 1882; Home 1882-. Campaigns: Egypt 1882. Medal Star of Egypt 1882 and clasp for Tel El Kabir; Medal for Long Service and Good Conduct 1 Sept 1888. Certificate for Musketry, Hythe, August 1878; Certificate for education, 2nd Class, 23 January 1873.
exemplary and sober at discharge from Rifle Brigade. Hospitalization: fracture, fibia and tibula July 1875(Windsor), boil 1877 (Windsor), acute rheumatism 1877 (Shorncliffe), ulcer 1877 (London) eczema (face) 1878 (London); unspecified SS Batavia July 1882.
I do have a photo of him in uniform.
Have a good Christmas too
nsm1991
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Hello once more.
I should have said that John Edward and Elizabeth Alma are my great grandparents through the marriage of their /ninth child, Edith Lilian Westcott in 1915 to Albert Wallace Wherry.
I also have very (highly, exceedingly) dim memories of their ?7th child, Stanley L Westcott.
Plus rather less dim (but still pretty dim) memories of their ?10th child, Ida, (and her husband Lionel Larkworthy).
When we were young, my mother used to take my sister and I to Heathfield about once a year to see them.
nsm1991
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Hi, I have a very good copy of your family tree, as Charles was my Grandfather and I would think you are my 2nd cousin, I also have a copy of a 3 volume book that was written about the history of the Larkworthy's that contains the information you are trying to find, please contact me.
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Hi pzpalmtree
Welcome to Rootschat ;D
natureslight, who started this topic, hasn't been online here since 2012 but as long as his email address hasn't changed, should receive an email notification that you have posted and hopefully come back soon.
If not, you could try sending a personal message but you'll need to increase your post count to be able to access the system.
http://www.rootschat.com/help/pms.php
Dawn
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Hi pzpalmtree
It does indeed sound as though we could be 2nd cousins and I'm absolutely fascinated by all you have to say. I may well also be able to fill in a lot of Westcott history, while for years I've wanted to fill out my very distant and vague memories of seeing Lionel and Ida Larkworthy at Heathfield.
I'm not very computerate though and sadly am struggling a bit to find my way around Rootschat - mainly I guess through my own lack of practice.
I did try to send you a personal message but it bounced back to me because it said your inbox was full.
Can you or anybody help please?? I'd really like to be in touch if at all possible.
Best wishes
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Hi, My grandmother was a sister to Ida, so it is not a side of the family I have spent alot of time of but one of the members of the family (a westcott) has written a 3 volume book on his family history what we helped with so I do have quite alot of info even though I did not do the research myself. what takes it back to a John Westcott around 1780-1800.
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Hi nsm1991
Welcome back!
Glad to see you have found each other here.
At the time you posted, pzpalmtree didn't have enough posts to be able to use the personal message but they have replied on the topic now so you should both be able to use the personal message system to exchange email addresses off-forum and then continue elsewhere if that is easier for you.
http://www.rootschat.com/help/pms.php
Dawn