RootsChat.Com
Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Longford => Topic started by: sheila may on Sunday 15 November 09 22:11 GMT (UK)
-
Hi ,
My g g g grandparents, Alexander Forbes & Jane Williams, were married in Templemichael 16/9/1780.
They had two sons Alexander(my g g grandfather) & Edward, dates of birth unknown, approximately 1790 - 1793.
Edward married Harriet Mc Dowell 26/11/1815 Templemichael & their son Alexander was born 26/6/1817 Templemichael.
Cannot find birth details for my ggg grandparents, or Alexander or Edward.
Wouls appreciate any help.
Thank you
Regards
Sheila
-
you didn't mention which religion Alexander & Jane were , but according to Ryan's Irish records there are no surviving baptism records for either Church of Ireland or Catholic in Templemichael before about 1790. Details listed are :
Church of Ireland
baptisms : from 1796
marriages : from 1770
locations : local custody and National Archives ref : M5724-6
Catholic
baptisms & marriages : from 1802 (missing some details from first half of 1808)
location : local custody and National Library microfilms P.4232 & 4233
Shane
-
Shane,
What did people do then, did they go and see the minister and make a date for the ceremony and just do it. If they wanted to part, just do that as well without sense of responsibility.
Was this the only time that women stood up and demanded that someone do something about the situation and big mistake they were given registration.?
marcie
-
Sheila,
I have May in my family tree, or rather O'May from Renfrew and prior Ireland.
I also have Forbes as a family name interest.
Aberdeen and surrounding areas.
marcie
-
Shane,
What did people do then, did they go and see the minister and make a date for the ceremony and just do it. If they wanted to part, just do that as well without sense of responsibility.
Was this the only time that women stood up and demanded that someone do something about the situation and big mistake they were given registration.?
marcie
they are the details given by Ryan's book for records.. which still exist
there's no details given on when the record keeping actually began for a parish.
Full civil registration did not commence until much later in 1864.
Shane
-
Hopefully, I may be able to find my people. I think they were presbyterian. and Smith is a very,very common name.
marcie
-
Sheila,
I have May in my family tree, or rather O'May from Renfrew and prior Ireland.
I also have Forbes as a family name interest.
Aberdeen and surrounding areas.
marcie
Hi Marcie,
May is my 2nd married name & I know absolutely nothing about them, Sorry!
Please can you give me the details you have on the Forbes form Aberdeen, as all my father's siblings & my father are dead, but I was tole they originally came from Scotland.
Who know, maybe Alexander came originally from Aberdeen.
Regards
Sheila ;)
-
you didn't mention which religion Alexander & Jane were , but according to Ryan's Irish records there are no surviving baptism records for either Church of Ireland or Catholic in Templemichael before about 1790. Details listed are :
Church of Ireland
baptisms : from 1796
marriages : from 1770
locations : local custody and National Archives ref : M5724-6
Catholic
baptisms & marriages : from 1802 (missing some details from first half of 1808)
location : local custody and National Library microfilms P.4232 & 4233
Shane
Hi Shane,
Most of the records I have found were Templemichael.
I can find no records of Alexander & Jane's son Alexander, dates I have been given are 1790,1792 & 1793, his brother Edward also various dates, however I have his marriage certificate 26/11/1815 Templemichael & the birth of his son Alexander 26/5/1817 Templemichael.
I also have Alexander & Jane's wedding certificate 16/9/1780 Templemichael.
That is all I have, and it seems they belonged to the Church of Ireland.
Thanks
Regards
Sheila
-
Hi Sheila
Hoping you are well and receive my message.
Was researching my ancestors Alexander Forbes & Jane Williams and came across your message, nice to meet you :)
Brief of my Line: Alexander Forbes Snr (1750), then Alexander Forbes Jnr (1792) and then Maria Forbes ... Looking forward to continuing this line with you should you get my message.
Hopefully we can exchange our connection/s.
Ang
-
All very vague....are there no further details on any record?
Occupation?
Address?
etc
-
Welcome to rootschat, Ang.
This post is almost 10 years old, so Sheila may no longer be expecting messages, but you can hope that someone picks up your posting.
-
All very vague....are there no further details on any record?
Occupation?
Address?
etc
Some information about the family:
Enquiry "Frbes family on Ireland Reaching Out website. Ireland XO message board
https://irelandxo.com/ireland-xo/message-board?combine=Forbes
There is another enquiry about a Forbes family from Longford on page 2.
https://www.geni.com/projects/1820-Settlers-Parker-s-Party/10420
Trees and timelines on Geni website for Edward Forbes and Alexander Forbes.
www.southafricansettlers.com/?cat=16&paged=35
Books:
"Irish Settlers to the Cape - a History of the Clanwilliam 1820 settlers from Cork Harbour" by Graham B. Dickinson tells the story of a group of settlers including 31 mostly from Longford Town, who emigrated to South Africa in 1820.
"The Settler Handbook" by M.D. Nash
The Forbes brothers were members of Parker's Party of settlers. Those settlers were part of the first assisted British emigration scheme approved by the British government in 1819. A total of 4000 emigrated from Ireland and Britain under the scheme.
Letter from William Scanlan, leader of the Longford group in National Archives, Kew, catalogue reference CO48/45
Apology for any spelling errors. My computer is making letters disappear if I try to correct them. I have to get round it by deleting words. It did it once before. I don't know why.
-
Hi Chempat, (Sorry couldn't see your name)
Thank you for the welcome :)
If I click on the name it shows when the account was opened and last on "I think" I might be wrong. But thank you so much for letting me know I appreciate you taking the time to let me know.
Holding thumbs and here's hoping lol ;D
Ang
-
Hi Maiden Stone
Thank you for the information.
That was a little more information I never had. I have been hitting a lot of dead ends and repetitive information. The Irish side of my family is so hard to get.
Birth, Baptism etc.. did they register their children as foreign born etc..
I would love to find out if they were registered as Foreign born and were they still considered Irish or then South African's?
Frustrated as this post is 10 years old and no closer to finding anything new, sadly :( and when I do catch up I am gathering the people here saying we share the same Ancestors may well be long gone.
Thank you again for the information - Oh and the one post on XO message board was me a few days ago Maria Forbes :)
Ang
-
Some more information here:
https://www.eggsa.org/1820-settlers
Article "The Story of the 1820 Settlers"
Link to a book on the Internet Archive "British South Africa - A History of the Colony of Cape of Good Hope from the Conquest 1795to Settlement of Albany by British Emigrants 1819" by Colin T. Campbell, published 1897. A short chapter on Parker's Party. List of emigrants by ship and party further on in book. Alexander, Edward and Ed's wife were all recorded as aged 27. (The writer of the above article mentions age discrepancies for some settlers.)
Menu bar:
1820 Settler places in British Isles - select Ireland then Longford and there's a pic of Templemichael Church (St. John's C. of I., Church St., Longford Town). John Armstrong (another settler) married Catherine Forbes there.
Additional information - Surnames - F - Forbes. Says Edward's age at death in 1870 was "about 100" which was not correct. Suggests Catherine Forbes, wife of John Armstrong was probably sister of Edward and Alexander. Mentions baptism of John, son of Alexander Forbes and Elizabeth Clarke, January 1817 at Templemichael.
Correspondence from or about settlers. Collection of correspondence is in National Archives at Kew. Some transcriptions are in Cape Archives CO 6138. There are some transcriptions online at wa.amu.edu.pl/1820settlers_petition_letters/start
Correspondence includes 2 letters written from Cobh, Cork by some settlers from Longford while they were waiting to find out if they could sail and becoming desperate. One is by John Armstrong, possible brother-in-law of Alexander and Edward Forbes and a follow-up letter a couple of weeks later from Ed. Forbes and John and Laurence Armstrong "after selling our small places …".
Sorry if there are any mistakes above. I can't go back and correct them or I'll lose it.
Ang may know all the above.
Alexander was killed in S. Africa.
-
Hi Maiden Stone,
Very interesting Thank you very much for the information :) Please don't worry about mistakes or spelling as the links truly help and are most welcome :)
Well this part was sad "At this stage the Settlers are still not aware that they had in fact been brought into the country to act as a human buffer between the Xhosa and the Boers!"
https://www.eggsa.org/1820-settlers/index.php/articles-2/1820-history
Ang
-
Some information about the family:
Trees and timelines on Geni website for Edward Forbes and Alexander Forbes.
www.southafricansettlers.com/?cat=16&paged=35
I don't know how accurate information is on either site. 2 men named Alexander Forbes are listed on the South African settlers' site, 1 with a birth year 1772 and the other 1800. I assume the younger one is the subject of this enquiry. Who was the older one? He had a wife Jane.
-
They are one in the same person, just not sure why 1800 as all the information I have leads more to 1792. It says he was 27 when he arrived in the Cape in 1820. which would be 1792 rather than 1800 as he would then only then be 20. And also the Children, Spouse and parents are the same.
His wife was Jane Thomas.
His daughter Maria Forbes (Married Holder) - Leading to me :)
His Mother Jane Williams
Father Alexander Forbes (B:1750)
His Brother Edward had a Son Alexander
-
Birth, Baptism etc.. did they register their children as foreign born etc..
I would love to find out if they were registered as Foreign born and were they still considered Irish or then South African's?
Frustrated as this post is 10 years old and no closer to finding anything new, sadly :( and when I do catch up I am gathering the people here saying we share the same Ancestors may well be long gone.
I assume that they followed the same practice as they did in Ireland and Britain and that the only evidence a person had as to where and when they were born was an entry in a baptism register. Registration of births began in England in 1837, Scotland 1855 and Ireland 1864. Since the authorities didn't have registrations for home births I doubt that they would be interested in children born to people who had emigrated and who were not expected to return. The exception was children of soldiers. Regimental chaplains kept baptism registers from mid 18th century. Soldiers, their wives, widows or children might need proof of legitimate birth so that they could claim pensions and other benefits.
The British government twice levied taxes on births, marriages and deaths in 18th century. The Anglican curate of each parish was responsible for listing every baby born, often in the baptism register and collecting the money. The government was only concerned with the amount of money raised, not in the babies, (a high proportion of whom would die, anyway).
British Consulates forwarded info to Britain about births in their region from mid 19thC. for inclusion in a foreign births register. It would have been the responsibility of parents or chaplains to supply information. It wasn't compulsory.
I looked at Sheila May's profile. She has posted only about this topic. There is a private message function which can be used by new members when they have made 3 posts. If Sheila doesn't reply to this thread you could try sending her a message.
-
I noticed that too.
This is why it is so frustrating to find anything.
-
Have heard of Irish glassworkers in the Black Country called Forbes!
Skoosh.
-
Some more information here:
https://www.eggsa.org/1820-settlers
Article "The Story of the 1820 Settlers"
Link to a book on the Internet Archive "British South Africa - A History of the Colony of Cape of Good Hope from the Conquest 1795to Settlement of Albany by British Emigrants 1819" by Colin T. Campbell, published 1897. A short chapter on Parker's Party. List of emigrants by ship and party further on in book. Alexander, Edward and Ed's wife were all recorded as aged 27. (The writer of the above article mentions age discrepancies for some settlers.)
Menu bar:
1820 Settler places in British Isles - select Ireland then Longford and there's a pic of Templemichael Church (St. John's C. of I., Church St., Longford Town). John Armstrong (another settler) married Catherine Forbes there.
Additional information - Surnames - F - Forbes. Says Edward's age at death in 1870 was "about 100" which was not correct. Suggests Catherine Forbes, wife of John Armstrong was probably sister of Edward and Alexander. Mentions baptism of John, son of Alexander Forbes and Elizabeth Clarke, January 1817 at Templemichael.
Correspondence from or about settlers. Collection of correspondence is in National Archives at Kew. Some transcriptions are in Cape Archives CO 6138. There are some transcriptions online at wa.amu.edu.pl/1820settlers_petition_letters/start
Correspondence includes 2 letters written from Cobh, Cork by some settlers from Longford while they were waiting to find out if they could sail and becoming desperate. One is by John Armstrong, possible brother-in-law of Alexander and Edward Forbes and a follow-up letter a couple of weeks later from Ed. Forbes and John and Laurence Armstrong "after selling our small places …".
Sorry if there are any mistakes above. I can't go back and correct them or I'll lose it.
Ang may know all the above.
Alexander was killed in S. Africa.
Pity there is no further details on them.
Are they part of the Earl of Granard's lot or not?
The Earl of Granard.... which sounds like they lived in Granard, lived about 2 miles from Longford town at Newtownforbes.
They had their own Church and a little cottage there... ;D
https://historicgraves.com/graveyard/newtown-forbes/ld-spnf
https://villagemagazine.ie/index.php/2016/11/castle-foreboding/
Plenty of Edwards and Alexanders too.
Were the ones who emigrated reasonably well off?
-
A return of famine-related deaths, headed ‘Deaths by Starvation in the District of Kilworth from the 1st January last’, dated 17 April 1847, submitted by the earl of Mount Cashell to Captain R. B. Forbes:
https://www.drb.ie/essays/Famine-Document
-
You are so right it is a pity there is no further details on them. ::)
I have no idea if they were a part of the Earl of Granard's as there is no further details. Wouldn't that be lovely to know.
"They had their own Church and a little cottage there" Oh my how nice ;D
It seems Edwards and Alexanders names were extremely popular ;D
I read that when they emigrated, they were of the free party and not of the poor on the Wiliam Parker's Party and was given land. Alexanders Farm is mentioned in the 1820 Settlers Book also mentions his Murder.
-
Hallmark
Thank you :)
-
https://www.eggsa.org/1820-settlers/index.php/pre-1820-letters/f-menu/1090-2011-01-04-12-59-09
Forbes...
https://www.eggsa.org/1820-settlers/index.php/additional-information/f-surnames/2176-forbes-edward-and-alexander-extra-data
-
Thank you so, so much :D
No record of their baptism nor of their parents or their parents ..
I believe they in the 1820 settlers book. Did they register their children as foreign born and Where they South Africans or Irish. I am finding nothing.
Also seems Alexander married Jane and she was 12 - 16 years old ?!?! She signed with a simple "X" so how was she to register her children?
So lost at the moment
-
I'd be more inclined to look for what was submitted to UK before they went as the money had to be accounted for from the Budget they had to settle people in the colonies.
-
Great idea ;D any ideas on where to look as I find a lot of repetitive information but not thought of the payments made to the UK
-
On my old computerI had all that stuff for "The Settlement of Canada" and the race/competition between England and France to get it settled in the favour of one or the other.
A lot of wealthy English got huge tracts of land in Canada and Echequer funds then to bring people from Ireland "to help wealthy English landlords in Ireland" clear their estates of their "problem tenants" thus solving 2 problems at same time!!
Each one in England got huge tracts of Land in Canada and from memory had to offer 100 acres in Canada, free travel to Canada and £10.00 to each family giving up their Irish leases.
All these settlers had to be named , numbered, every pound spent on them to get them to Canada and then to "their new land" had to be accounted for!
Again...from memory, something like 70,000 Irish went this route to Canada annually during the Great Famine! Hence, these Agents did everything as cheaply as possible......used these "coffin ships" and also got back handers from Canada logging companies to make them even richer!
All their Lists/Ledgers went to Treasury. I think Kew has them.
-
Correspondence includes 2 letters written from Cobh, Cork by some settlers from Longford while they were waiting to find out if they could sail and becoming desperate. One is by John Armstrong, possible brother-in-law of Alexander and Edward Forbes and a follow-up letter a couple of weeks later from Ed. Forbes and John and Laurence Armstrong "after selling our small places …".
Were the ones who emigrated reasonably well off?
Not according to those 2 letters written by John Armstrong while they were waiting in Cork in November 1819.
https://www.eggsa.org/1820-settlers/index.php/pre=1820-letters/a-menu/41-sp-1899969079
After paying for their passage money and travel from Longford, he claimed they had not a penny to keep them from starving on the streets of Cork. He said that some of their group who had spare money had returned home. His reference to "selling our small places" suggests that they had properties or land. Would their "places" have been owned or leased? Occupations included shoemaker (an Armstrong and a Forbes), farmers and a weaver.
-
Trouble with no details is this,,,
Churches in the parish of Templemichael St John (Longford).
Which church??
https://www.ireland.anglican.org/find-a-church/parish/14110/templemichael-st-john-longford
-
The List of Church of Ireland Parish Registers (Updated September 2019)
https://www.ireland.anglican.org/cmsfiles/pdf/AboutUs/library/registers/ParishRegisters/PARISHREGISTERS.pdf
Templemichael, Ardagh diocese, County Longord
Baptisms 1796-1913; Marriages 1797-1965; Burials 1796-1943
Original registers held by the Representative Church Body Library, Churchtown, Dublin (RCBL)
Notes: See also Killoe.
Killoe, Ardagh diocese, County Longford
Baptisms 1829-2000; Marriages 1829-1845; Burials 1845 only
Original registers held by RCBL
Notes: Earlier records destroyed in 1922.
Some coverage on RootsIreland.ie
See also Templemichael
-
They were to avail of the first assisted British emigration scheme which was passed by the British Cabinet in 1819, eighteen years after the Act of Union which united Ireland with Britain, and was aimed at populating the eastern frontier of the Cape of Good Hope in South Africa. In all 90,000 people applied for this scheme and 4,000 eventually sailed in 32 ships, 27 of which sailed from Cork between 27th December, 1819 and August, 1820.
Forbes, Alexander 27 Farmer
Forbes, Edward 27 Farmer, wife Harriet (nee McDowell) 27, children Alexander 2 and Harriet 1.
-
Irish settlers to the Cape : history of the Clanwilliam 1820 settlers from Cork Harbour
https://julufukefisi.ga/1520.php ??
-
Was A. W.'s age ever determined??
Was he 17..... and maybe younger brother??
Did he marry? When? Age at Death?
-
No record of their baptism nor of their parents or their parents ..
I believe they in the 1820 settlers book. Did they register their children as foreign born and Where they South Africans or Irish. I am finding nothing.
Also seems Alexander married Jane and she was 12 - 16 years old ?!?! She signed with a simple "X" so how was she to register her children?
Baptisms of Alexander and Edward were probably before the surviving registers for Templemichael began. See my post #32.
When did birth registrations begin in that part of South Africa? Civil registration of births began 1837 in England & Wales, 1855 Scotland and 1864 Ireland.
Re Jane's age. Legal age for marriage in Ireland and England was 12 for girls. Typical age at marriage for a female was late teens, early 20s. Jane may not have known her actual age.
Jane's literacy skills. That was normal for the time. However just because someone made their mark, it didn't necessarily mean that the person was illiterate. S/he may not have had "penmanship skills" or the parson assumed she didn't and told her to make her mark.
As to how Jane would have registered her children - if there were no registers then there was no need to register births. If there was civil registration, a system for collecting information would have been devised. When it began in England, registrars were responsible for collecting information through various channels until people became accustomed to the registration regime. What happened in rural Ireland was that father, mother or other relative would register a birth when they went to town for some other reason e.g. market.
Church registers were the main proof of birth before civil registration of births began.
The British government didn't know the size of populations in the countries of the UK in between 1821 & 1831 censuses, let alone how many had been born or died.
-
Every penny of each £50,000 grant had to be accounted for so Who submitted What for Longford group??
You've probably read this about your Forbes...
https://archive.org/details/britishsouthafri00camp/page/214
-
Was A. W.'s age ever determined??
Was he 17..... and maybe younger brother??
Did he marry? When? Age at Death?
There was a William Forbes from London. I don't know which party he was in.
-
Yes..just rembered after I posted :D
Forbes, Edward 27 Farmer, wife Harriet (nee McDowell) 27, children Alexander 2 and Harriet 1.
Hope to see if anything else is in the Church Records or even Vestry Books about them tomorrow.
-
Most of the records I have found were Templemichael.
I can find no records of Alexander & Jane's son Alexander, dates I have been given are 1790,1792 & 1793, his brother Edward also various dates, however I have his marriage certificate 26/11/1815 Templemichael & the birth of his son Alexander 26/5/1817 Templemichael.
I also have Alexander & Jane's wedding certificate 16/9/1780 Templemichael.
That is all I have, and it seems they belonged to the Church of Ireland.
Thanks
Regards
Sheila
Trouble with this is there were no Certs then!!
Was there anything else on this entry in Church Register??
Templemichael has Deaths 1796-1943 which might reveal Deaths of Parents, sometimes Grave No., etc
-
WOW!!! This is brilliant Maiden and Hallmark.
Although more questions a lot here I never knew
-
Then you would certainly not be able to prove it today it seems without the notes,Port of entry, letters, churches and books with some proof they existed .
I had a look it seems that Birth records (certificates) were introduced officially in the late 1800’s and was not compulsory until 1905. These are the official dates of when it started in the various provinces:
Cape: 1895
Natal: 1868
Transvaal: 1901
Orange Free State: 1903
Civil registration of births began 1837 in England & Wales, 1855 Scotland and 1864 Ireland.
Question is were their children considered Irish or South African?
-
Crikey...this is getting confusing!!
RE: Forbes, Edward 27 Farmer, wife Harriet (nee McDowell) 27, children Alexander 2 and Harriet 1.
Didn't all of these go together on boat to S.A in 1819? Or Not??
Would I be looking for a Marriage c.1814/1816 era for Edward to Harriet McDowell and Baptisms for Alex and Harriet in Longford??
Were these all Irish or not??
-
Yes they were all Irish.
-
They all left from Cork to SA
-
So what else needs to be looked for in Church records that exist??
-
Alexander Forbes (1750) and Jane Williams (1760), their baptism and marriage certificates or registry and their parents. I have married 30/09/1780, Templemichael, Longford
Child 1: Alexander Forbes - Just the date of death and a picture of his death notice
He married Jane Thomas (1805) first married Alexander Forbes - Then married Simes
Alexander and Jane had Maria Forbes (My Forbes) (apparently he was married before he left to Elizabeth Clarke and they had a Son John - Some say they died before he left Ireland and others say there is no record of them?)
Maria Forbes (05/05/1827) married William Henry Holder (Leader of the 1820 Holders Party)
They had Sarah Ann Holder (17/10/1849) - Married Edward James Sterley (Sturley)
They had Harold Henry Sterley (26/07/1885) - Married Joanna de Wet
They had Harold James Sterley (26/07/1885) Only one I have all records for sadly
Eventually several Generations this will lead to me :D
That is what I am trying to determine what is on record that we can retrieve. As a lot of what I was finding is repetitive and finding baptismal records, birth records etc has proven to be a challenge or may not even exist.
But Civil registration of births began 1837 in England & Wales, 1855 Scotland and 1864 Ireland. South African Birth records (certificates) were introduced officially in the late 1800S and was not compulsory until 1905. These are the official dates of when it started in the various provinces:
Cape: 1895 - Natal: 1868 - Transvaal: 1901 - Orange Free State: 1903
-
Will look for
Alexander Forbes and Jane Williams (1760), marriage 30/09/1780, Templemichael, Longford
Birth of Child 1: Alexander Forbes (whenever) and His marriage to Jane Thomas (whenever) to see if any further details are on entries!
Might mooch around g/yard now that it has been cleared. Need to look for a couple of names there anyway.
-
Alexander Forbes (About 1792) and Jane Thomas (About 1805)
I cannot thank you enough :D
-
Alexander Forbes (1750) and Jane Williams (Born 1760)
-
Alexander Forbes (About 1792) and Jane Thomas (About 1805)
I cannot thank you enough :D
Why not?? ;D ;D
-
;D
Thank you
Thank you
Thank you
Thank you ;)
-
No luck....
Firstly the County Historian doesn't have any records copied. Some do/some don't!
No g/stones for any Forbes in Church Cemetery and only 1 Forbes mentioned on Robinson g/stone mid 1800's which would be in the book attached. Photo in book in Copyright protected!!
Rector recently retired....no replacement yet at Church!
All Records, Vestry books are in Dublin.
He agreed with my thoughts that they could have been from any of the churches posted previously as it was easier to get to for anyone travelling accommodation etc.
He also suggested what I was going to suggest...that is contacting the Library in Dublin, who do not do Research, but because you have the record, date, etc they can look to see if further details are on Marriage entry as they just need to go and look at it.
I asked about the paperwork for these people going to S.A. as I thought they might be in London but because they are State papers they stayed in the State so anything submitted is still in Ireland.
-
1828
m
-
Alexander Forbes (1750) and Jane Williams (1760), their baptism and marriage certificates or registry and their parents. I have married 30/09/1780, Templemichael, Longford
Child 1: Alexander Forbes - Just the date of death and a picture of his death notice
He married Jane Thomas (1805) first married Alexander Forbes - Then married Simes
Alexander and Jane had Maria Forbes (My Forbes) (apparently he was married before he left to Elizabeth Clarke and they had a Son John - Some say they died before he left Ireland and others say there is no record of them?)
That is what I am trying to determine what is on record that we can retrieve. As a lot of what I was finding is repetitive and finding baptismal records, birth records etc has proven to be a challenge or may not even exist.
1. Baptisms of Alexander Forbes the elder born c1750 and Jane Williams born c1760 were too early for surviving baptism registers of Templemichael, assuming that they were born there. You said you already have a copy of their marriage.
2. Death of their son, Alexander. The one who died in South Africa, killed during an attack by natives?
3. Alexander's wife, Jane Thomas. Did this marriage happen in S. Africa? Do you know where Jane was from? Was the Simes you mention Jane's 2nd husband, whom she married in S. Africa after Alexander's death?
4. Alexander's wife/wives and children. Is there evidence that Alexander Forbes who had a son, John, baptised in Longford, mother Elizabeth Clarke, was the same Alexander who went to S. Africa? I saw no mention of wife or child in letters re assisted emigration scheme or passenger list. He travelled without a wife or child. However that doesn't mean they didn't exist. (See my reply #14.)
Alexander's daughter Maria, born to wife, Jane, was born in South Africa; is that correct?
-
....and I know who Scanlan's boss was!! ;D
-
Will look for
Birth of Child 1: Alexander Forbes (whenever) and His marriage to Jane Thomas (whenever) to see if any further details are on entries!
Alexander's marriage to Jane Thomas might not have been in Ireland.
-
I forgot about Simon's stuff put up in July.
http://www.igp-web.com/IGPArchives/ire/longford/cem.htm
-
The List of Church of Ireland Parish Registers (Updated September 2019)
https://www.ireland.anglican.org/cmsfiles/pdf/AboutUs/library/registers/ParishRegisters/PARISHREGISTERS.pdf
Templemichael, Ardagh diocese, County Longord
Baptisms 1796-1913; Marriages 1797-1965; Burials 1796-1943
Original registers held by the Representative Church Body Library, Churchtown, Dublin (RCBL)
Notes: See also Killoe.
Killoe, Ardagh diocese, County Longford
Baptisms 1829-2000; Marriages 1829-1845; Burials 1845 only
Original registers held by RCBL
Notes: Earlier records destroyed in 1922.*
Some coverage on RootsIreland.ie
See also Templemichael
* To explain the above note for anyone not familiar with Irish genealogy or Irish history.
Some Church of Ireland registers were deposited in the General Records Office which was housed in the former Four Courts building in Dublin. The Four Courts building was badly damaged in 1922 during the Irish Civil War - after a bombardment there was an explosion and fire. Many records were destroyed or damaged including about half of Church of Ireland registers deposited there.
This article on Irish Genealogy Toolkit explains.
https://www.irish-genealogy-toolkit.com/irish-records-burned.html
Irish Genealogy Toolkit website is a helpful guide to researching Irish ancestry.
See also https://www.ireland.anglican.org/about/genealogy
-
Would I be looking for a Marriage c.1814/1816 era for Edward to Harriet McDowell and Baptisms for Alex and Harriet in Longford??
The marriage of Edward & Harriet has already been found. It was 26th Nov. 1815. See Sheila May's original post.
-
http://www.csorp.nationalarchives.ie/search/index.php?category=27
would be the Site that would have any Documentation about their Luxury Cruise to South Africa...or any paperwork submitted.
Unfortunately only a small percentage is online at moment..
Attached is an example of the type of stuff one might get on an individual.
-
#Reply 54. Is it an extract from Thom's directory for Longford town?
-
Would I be looking for a Marriage c.1814/1816 era for Edward to Harriet McDowell and Baptisms for Alex and Harriet in Longford??
The marriage of Edward & Harriet has already been found. It was 26th Nov. 1815. See Sheila May's original post.
I know, but was asking Ang Gks what she wanted me to check!!
-
#Reply 54. Is it an extract from Thom's directory for Longford town?
Some trade Directory!
-
Didn't see any of your Forbes in this!!
-
The National Archives (Kew, London). Research guides.
"How to look for records of emigration and emigrants"
https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/help-with-your-research/research-guides/emigration
Some items.
"The District of Albany, formerly t'Zuureveld, being the Eastern Frontier of the Colony of the Cape of Good hope, showing the locations of the settlers lately arrived from England …."
Ref. C700/Cape of Good Hope Date 1822
"Narrative of Captain Fairfax Moresby, of the arrival of the English settlers of Eastern Cape Province "
Ref. ADM 1/5123/7 (Admiralty) Date 1820
1 item extracted from CO 48/77 Cape Colony "General Plans of S.E. part of the District of Albany …."
Ref. MPG1/146 Date 1822-1825
CO is Colonial Office which holds the main collection.
-
Might be worth a try??
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=482830.msg6824789
-
;D Absolutely amazing thank you.
One step closer than we were you are brilliant !!!
-
No problem!
So...no g/stone there or at Ballymacormack!
Newtownforbes is online... haven't checked them!
I photographed the Old Newtownforbes graveyard and it is online but can't get onto http://www.igp-web.com/IGPArchives/ to look at Co Longford....Headstones for some reason!!
Kilashee C of I is online "omewhere"
Clonguish is one of the smallest Churches I've come across.... 99% sure no Cemetery there.
Ay Kew I had to look for "The Papers on the Settlement of Canada" so maybe there are "The Papers on the Settlement of South Africa" BUT they won't get you the Irish State papers submitted by Scanlan.
Scanlan was only a bully-boy sideswipe who elbowed his way into this Settlement Program....but surely he must have had to submit papers for "his group"!!
Plus....did any who went back home from Cork look for refunds or funds to resettle from Irish CSO??
My lot who attended same Church are buried over 10km away from Longford..
-
No prize whatsoever will be given to anyone spotting any typos in above message!! ;D
-
No problem!
So...no g/stone there or at Ballymacormack!
Newtownforbes is online... haven't checked them!
I photographed the Old Newtownforbes graveyard and it is online but can't get onto http://www.igp-web.com/IGPArchives/ to look at Co Longford....Headstones for some reason!!
Kilashee C of I is online "omewhere"
Clonguish is one of the smallest Churches I've come across.... 99% sure no Cemetery there.
Ay Kew I had to look for "The Papers on the Settlement of Canada" so maybe there are "The Papers on the Settlement of South Africa" BUT they won't get you the Irish State papers submitted by Scanlan.
Scanlan was only a bully-boy sideswipe who elbowed his way into this Settlement Program....but surely he must have had to submit papers for "his group"!!
Plus....did any who went back home from Cork look for refunds or funds to resettle from Irish CSO??
My lot who attended same Church are buried over 10km away from Longford..
Would love to see the photo's shout when they load :)
Who is Kilashee?
Scanlan sure was, sadly I read that the Settlers were never expected to make it, they say that they were used as buffers between the Xhosas and Boers.
-
The English did the same with the Scottish that came to Ireland, treating them only "slightly better" than the Irish.
Hence their leaving very quickly for North America.
Killashee is one of the Churches mentioned in a Link I posted.
Of course Scanlan knew these settlers were put there as a buffer-zone.... but who would end up with all the allocated land/funds etc if they were all killed??
IGP is back up.... only one Forbes in Ballinalee.
All you can really do now is ask if there are further details on that Church Record or not... chances are they will look as they know which Register and the Date of the one that exists in the Church Register.
Only ask about the one you need!!
-
my great grandad was i maffekind the boer warhe would have been around 29 or 30 prior to that he was in india apparently in the 18th hussars seconded to the imperial calvary pehaps find info on the war records or brittanica wikki or somewhere like that?they may list the dead and survivors with photos too!?