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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Topic started by: Shawbrook on Wednesday 18 November 09 17:42 GMT (UK)
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I am looking for information about James Leander Cathcart, he was born 16th March 1800 in Ireland. He trained as a barrister in Dublin, but left for England in the 1820s to become an actor. I have a census record for 1841 with his first wife and a census record for 1851 and 1861 with his second wife. He passed away in Manchester, England in the early hours of 1st January 1866.
I am looking for information while he lived in Ireland, who his parents were etc.
This is Not the James Leander Cathcart fro America who was everything from a slave to a diplomat.
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My searches are for Cathcarts too and I've come across James Leander often in the Free Records Online. He is variously described as a Tragedian, Actor, Comedian and you will find many references in familysearch.org, cheers, Ian
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hi Shawbrook, in case you want to use the PM system it doesn’t operate until you have made 3 messages on the website. I have read with interest the various contributions inc your own ten years ago on a Cathcart topic at https://www.ancestry.co.uk. I went searching for Leander which has Finland/Sweden connection, with the earliest English location Dinton Wiltshire about 35 miles NW of Southampton Port in 1745. I could find no irish connection at this time. because of its rarity I stated to think your James b1800 must be named either in honour of a famous named person like Nelson or in some form of family connection. examples a wifes name or perhaps an uncle etc I was named after my uncle. so that really registered. The previous contributions on ancestry all missed generations. I tried various sources in Fermanagh Wikipedia gives with sources Monea Castle is situated where a Maguire castle would have been based prior to the Plantation and a crannog is still visible. Building was started in 1616 by the Rector of Devenish, the Reverend Malcolm Hamilton. It had a bawn built later, in 1622, shortly before Hamilton was promoted to become Archbishop of Cashel in 1623. In the Irish Rebellion of 1641 it was attacked by Rory Maguire, who "slew and murthered eight Protestants" here. In 1688 it was occupied by Gustav Hamilton, the Governor of Enniskillen, who died in 1691. His wife and children continued to live at Monea, but had to sell the estate in 1704. A few decades later the castle was gutted by fire and subsequently abandoned. I then decided to find out more about James Leander Cathcart b. Jun 1767 Mount Murragh, County Westmeath. His daughter J H Newkirk 1899 compiled a book saying she was named after her father so J stands for James. but doesn’t explain the H. In the book are photos of pictures of James Leander Cathcart and Jane B Cathcart his wife . The book title is The captives -James Leander Cathcart -Eleven yrs a prisoner in Algiers. Information in the book made a draft family tree
1. Col. Gabriel Cathcart b Renfrew, Scotland, left Scotland 1641 with the Rev Malcolm Hamilton later Bishop of Cashel .possibly even Archbishop of Cashel m Annie Hamilton Malcolm’s daughter The Hamiltons lived at some time at Monea Castle, Fermanagh, 7 miles NW from Enniskillen.
children 11 sons and several daughters. 6 sons & father died Aughrim 1691 leaving the only named child
1. 12. Malcolm Cathcart lived until 116 yrs old, survived Aughrim 1691 m Mary Caldwell dau of Sir James Caldwell.
children
1. 12.1. James Cathcart Capt british Army [James grandfather] d 1745 m the neice of Andrew Wilson founder of Wilsons Hospital
children
1. 12.1.1. Malcolm Hamilton Cathcart [James father] b 1736 Persfield West Meath m Miss Humphreys dau of Edward Humphrey of Dublin. Who was he? influential for barristers
children
1. 12.1.1.1. Rolleston Nassau Cathcart b 22 Sept 1763 Mount Murragh, County Westmeath
1. 12.1.1.2. James Leander Cathcart b. 1 Jun 1767 Mount Murragh, County Westmeath placed in the care of Capt John Cathcart then when aged 17 became prisoner in Algiers? released aged 28 about 1890-2 m 5th June 1798 in America Jane B Woodside dau of Capt John Woodside of the revolution army
children of 12 only three were born in US in no particular order of interest
1. 12.1.1.2.1. Eliza Woodside Cathcart b Tripoli >1805
1. 12.1.1.2.2. Amelia Humphries Cathcart b >1805
1. 12.1.1.2.3. George Cathcart b >1805 Leghorn
1. 12.1.1.2.4. Latimer Cathcart b >1805 Leghorn
1. 12.1.1.2.5. Mary Anne Cathcart b >1805 Leghorn
1. 12.1.1.2.6. James Leander Cathcart b 31 Jan 1807
1. 12.1.1.2.7. Charles William Cathcart b Maderia after 1807
1. 12.1.1.2.8. Jane Blancker Cathcart b Maderia after 1807
1. 12.1.1.2.9. John Philadelpus Cathcart b Maderia after 1807
1. 12.1.1.2.10. Henry Nassau Cathcart b Cadiz
1. 12.1.1.2.11. Edward Preble Cathcart b Georgetown D C.
1. 12.1.1.2.12. Thomas Jefferson Cathcart b Washington D C
The continuing choice of second first names is very unusual. eccentric perhaps
So could James Leander Cathcart b 1800 fit into this tree ? compared to much oral history recordedd in ancestry I think its possible the two merge. How did he become a barrister in Dublin? Did he have a benefactor? a family one. or perhaps he joined a solicitors office first or afterwards Did he take a law degree at Trinity College Dublin? eg Alumni dublinenses: 1924 or earlier. I found this one off, by accident in a book review Cathcart, Carleton b 1803 Co Fermanagh, BA 1826-31 I am unable to go to a big library so I am hoping you or somebody can check JLC out it’s the only proof of him being in Dublin likely other than a street directory . I don’t know enough of Dublin street directories my two working backwards are Thoms 1844, then
Dublin almanac and general register of Ireland ..Pettigrew and Oulton's Dublin started 1834, then unknown to me. Belfast had little one 1805 etc a big one by 1819 so surely Dublin has something similar?
end of part 1
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continued Ian Nelson with thanks triggered this part showing generations of comedians.
The only proof of a James Cathcart b Ireland a comedian, who might be him is in the England Census 1841 where the detail aged 40 shows and birthplace just an I for Ireland.BUT he is sharing with a Rolleston Cathcart aged 9
1841 England leeds census
James Cathcart aged 40 comedian when and where did he die
a James L Cathcart d Chorlton Lancashire march qter 1866 see www.freebmd.org.uk/
m 1. >1832 Frances Cathcart nee ? b~1806 aged 35
residence commercial court, Brig gate Leeds in 1841
children
1. James T Cathcart b 1831 Gosport Hamps later residence Old Chapel Row St Kentish Town Pancras. in 1861 Princess Place Lambeth recheck? Elizabeth kerridge comedian? b Sussex 1834, also his motherinlaw Lucy Kerridge Owner of houses in 1890 still m Elizabeth Middlesex has a son comedian Ernest b 1867,another son William [G] m lambeth 1883 stage manager two servants etc
2. Frances Cathcart b 1834
3. Jane Cathcart b 1839
4. Victoria Jane Cathcart b 1842 Yorkshire appears in 1861 census
sharing house with
Rolleston {G} Cathcart b 1832 Chichester Hampshire in 1851 census an actor a possible relative see 1. 12.1.1.1. Rolleston Nassau Cathcart b 22 Sept 1763
m 2. . >1848 Elizabeth Cathcart nee ? b 1831 Liverpool source 1861 census
residence Clayton Street Newcastle upon Tyne Northumberland
children
Helen Cathcart b1848 Liverpool
Robert Cathcart b1856 Preston www.freebmd.org.uk/ m? 1884 Chorlton www.freebmd.org.uk/ Phoebe Mole or Martha Jane Poppleton
Kate b Cathcart 1860 Nottingham
sorry rushed starting to make mistakes
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children
1. 12.1.1. Malcolm Hamilton Cathcart [James father] b 1736 Persfield West Meath m Miss Humphreys dau of Edward Humphrey of Dublin. Who was he? influential for barristers
children
Papers relating to a marriage settlement, Malcolm Cathcart and Elizabeth Humfrey, July 1757, partnership agreement, 1802, indenture of apprenticeship to G. L. Cathcart, solicitor, 1848
Dublin: Public Record Office, M.5444 (1-3)
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No. 76304
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSH3-M7DB-5?i=401&cat=185720
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hallmark, Thank you very much for both replies. Having spent 15 minutes last night and again this morning online searching for M5444 etc to no avail, for this entry in the National Archives, first trying all words etc and gradually all individual words . I did find more possible Cathcart and Humfrey but not the right one, even the number. Please advise me how you found it.
I would add your quote ‘Give a man a record and you feed him for a day.’ thats painfully but happily true today.and then the other quote ‘Teach a man to research, and you feed him for a lifetime.’ So true, as I was taught, in 1960 by an unqualified Librarian Jimmy Vitty in Belfast when I was 25, & am now 84 doing my sole hobby in need of a reboot or many not possible visits to the NAI which I sense you must visit daily or even perhaps live in !
its getting closer to connecting a line of irish comedians back to Ireland, but not quite there yet, thanks for joining in. The quality of my life both in Belfast and now in England has been expanded starting with the stage irish and TV irish comedians. My father born Donegal, made serious by wars could contain a belly laugh and facial smile until he started to shake all over and then he let it all out!
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I've been trawling through my pc collection of the past ten years and stumbled upon these Irish Cathcarts, mostly Nassau and Relatives but including Leander and others, whilst I have been hunting my ancestor James Cathcart of Kendal. Hope this helps, I have more, Ian
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Can't believe it, the attachments didn't go, try again...
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Rootschat limit of 4 attachments reached there, but here are the last two snippets ...
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Hi Ian
I got sidetracked onto your James Cathcart of Kendal and wondered about these two
Cathcart of Kendal as being possible brother and sister and perhaps connected to your James Cathcart of Kendal
George Cathcart b 1855 ? location d 1st qter 1888 Kendal Westmorland source freebmds
Anne Cathcart b 3rdqter 1865 Kendal Westmorland Mother's Maiden Name Dickinson?
is living with the Jackson family in Church St Lancaster l881 census as a general servant in 1901 a domestic servant with the Rev William Ewald C of E with a housekeeper, in 1911 with William Harris Ewald Kendal Westmorland b 1841 Leghorn Italy Clergyman Established Church Vicar Of St John Lancaster all living at vicarage.
a few other records
a John Cathcart m a Jane Dickinson in 2nd qter 1853 Preston Lancashire source freebmds
a John Cathcart b 1825 d 1885 Lancaster freebmds
a John Cathcart b 1831 Ireland is a widower coachman living as a boarder with James Thornton another coachman in Windmill st Lancaster 1881 census
So we have a possible connection between Kendal, Lancaster, and Ireland 1831
but I have nothing to connect to James Cathcart b 1800 Ireland other than Northumberland census 1861 etc
So now I am changing back to James Cathcart b 1800 irish events say 1814 until he moves to England before 1840 the most likely about being a barrister etc in Dublin Hallmarks contribution is so close. If you or he are members of the free library you can look Alumni dublinenses: 1924 for free otherwise its join https://www.findmypast.co.uk
and pay
I have a list of 37 Cathcarts in the Tithes Applotment Books 1823-1837
based upon the work of the Irish Genealogy Hub’s listing for each parish in Northern Ireland, which are quicker to lookup if you know the parish! they are simple one line entries
The relevant original books are in the Public Record Office of Northern Ireland (PRONI) Belfast. in Dublin they are online in detail for the 26 counties but just one entry under Cathcart for a John in Ramelton 1834, and 8 under Catheart see http://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/search/tab/index.jsp
here is the 6 county bit
Cathcart, Adam-T: Derryclavan Y: 1835-Derryvullan-Fermanagh
Cathcart, Adam-Townland: Toneylummon Year: 1834-Cleenish-Fermanagh
Cathcart, Alexander-Tl: Currough Yr: 1828-Camus-Tyrone
Cathcart, Alexr.-Townland: Gilgad Year: 1835-Connor-Antrim
Cathcart, Allen-Tl: Blainey Yr: 1834-Inishmacsaint -Fermanagh
Cathcart, Charleton-Townland: Clonaveil Year: 1834-Cleenish-Fermanagh
Cathcart, David-Townland: Beachoe Year: 1834-Cleenish-Fermanagh
Cathcart, Frances-Townland: Ballymecelheny Year: 1828-Desertlyn -Derry
Cathcart, James-Tl: Doon Yr: 1832-Enniskillen-Fermanagh
Cathcart, James-Tl: Portmuske Yr: 1826-Rossory-Fermanagh
Cathcart, James-Townland : Craigfad Year: 1825-Dunaghy-Antrim
Cathcart, James-Townland : Ratalla Year: 1834-Ardkeen-Down
Cathcart, James-Townland: Kells Year: 1835-Connor-Antrim
Cathcart, James-Townland: Tullygarley Year: 1835-Connor-Antrim
Cathcart, Jas.-Townland: Ballymecelheny Year: 1828-Desertlyn -Derry
Cathcart, John-Tl: Blainey Yr: 1834-Inishmacsaint -Fermanagh
Cathcart, John-Townland : Ahoghill Year: 1825-Portglenone-Antrim
Cathcart, John-Townland: Bottom Year: 1833- Kirkinriola -Antrim
Cathcart, John-Townland: Grange Year: 1827-Desertmartin-Derry
Cathcart, John-Townland: Lavin Year: 1832-Loughguile -Antrim
Cathcart, Matw.-Townland: Topp Year: 1825-Ballymoney-Antrim
Cathcart, Matw.-Townland: Topp Year: 1825-Ballymoney-Derry & Antrim
Cathcart, Mrs. Townland : Brocklamount Year: 1825-Portglenone-Antrim
Cathcart, Robert-Townland : Ratalla Year: 1834-Ardkeen-Down
Cathcart, Robt.-Townland: Craigawarren Year: 1833- Kirkinriola -Antrim
Cathcart, Robt.-Townland: Kenbilly Year: 1825-Skerry-Antrim
Cathcart, Robt.-Townland: Portavogie Year: 1834-Ballyhalbert-Down
Cathcart, Saml.-Townland: Ballynaris Year: 1824-Billy-Antrim
Cathcart, Thomas-Tl: Blainey Yr: 1834-Inishmacsaint -Fermanagh
Cathcart, Thos.-Tl: Portmuske Yr: 1826-Rossory-Fermanagh
Cathcart, William-Townland: Tullagarley Year: 1825-Ahoghill -Antrim
Cathcart, Willm.-Townland: Ballymacvea Year: 1835-Connor-Antrim
Catheart, Alexr.-Townland: Lower Broughshane Year: 1825-Skerry-Antrim
Catheart, Hu.-Townland: Blackhill Year: 1833-Templecorran-Antrim
Catheart, John-Townland: Lower Broughshane Year: 1825-Skerry-Antrim
Catheart, Saml.-Townland: North West Ballycarry Year: 1833-Templecorran-Antrim
Catheart, William-Tl: Glenleary Yr: 1828-Camus-Tyrone
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Hi, I've uncovered more about Rolleston ( village next to Newark-on-Trent between Nottingham and Lincoln) and Nassau (obvious one is capital of the Bahamas) and Leander, as in Greek myths Hero and Leander. There is a link somewhere I can't locate but it's a birth at Leghorn, Italy of a child to Cathcart and Bankner. Here are more attachments which might be of use to you, cheers, Ian
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Found the Banckner one but 3 didn't go through so I'll try again
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hallmark, Thank you very much for both replies. Having spent 15 minutes last night and again this morning online searching for M5444 etc to no avail, for this entry in the National Archives, first trying all words etc and gradually all individual words . I did find more possible Cathcart and Humfrey but not the right one, even the number. Please advise me how you found it.
I would add your quote ‘Give a man a record and you feed him for a day.’ thats painfully but happily true today.and then the other quote ‘Teach a man to research, and you feed him for a lifetime.’ So true, as I was taught, in 1960 by an unqualified Librarian Jimmy Vitty in Belfast when I was 25, & am now 84 doing my sole hobby in need of a reboot or many not possible visits to the NAI which I sense you must visit daily or even perhaps live in !
its getting closer to connecting a line of irish comedians back to Ireland, but not quite there yet, thanks for joining in. The quality of my life both in Belfast and now in England has been expanded starting with the stage irish and TV irish comedians. My father born Donegal, made serious by wars could contain a belly laugh and facial smile until he started to shake all over and then he let it all out!
I just went to NLI website and put Cathcath in and it threw up that!
Today, it is throwing up McAnlis stuff instead! ;D
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.
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Extracts of wills, etc. made by Lady D. Lowry-Corry from family papers, 1624-1830. Names include Armar, Caldwell, Carleton, Cathcart, Corry, Crawford Dane, and others.
Belfast: Belfast Public Record Office, D. 906 (Contd.)
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Ian, well done for those additions re Bancker please read the bookonline i should have given its source before
The captives -James Leander Cathcart -Eleven yrs a prisoner in Algiers by J H Newkirk 1899. has been published in 21 formats and editions I read this online original edition https://archive.org/details/captives00cathrich/page/n8 etc
The author of the book is Jane Bancker Newkirk nee Cathcart
see p308 stayed with my wifes grandmother Mrs Bancker
see page310 three children b leghorn naming Jane etc
Leghorn being the English name for the port Livorno Tuscany Italy
hallmark you have become my mentor I have downloaded McAnlis’s before in past years however I think I tried only National Archives not National Library. thank you again and now its PRONI !
Cathcart researchers:- I now bow out at this point. the topic needs a volunteer to look those sources at the NLI up in Dublin and Belfast. I am over 290 miles as the crow flies and am becoming house bound so I cant follow it up.
good luck further
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1681 Cathcart, Alexander
1746 Cathcart, Alexander Magheragannon
1841 Cathcart, Arthur Magheranageeragh
1699 Cathcart, Capt. Hugh Tullyscanlan
1684 Cathcart, Gabriel Tullyscanlan
1712 Cathcart, James Shankill
1889 Cathcart, James Gillyholm
1891 Cathcart, James Cullen (died 1931)
1895 Cathcart, James Gillyholm
1671 Cathcart, John
1687 Cathcart, Robert
1712 Cathcart, William
http://www.igp-web.com/IGPArchives/ire/fermanagh/churches/monea_churchwardens-alph.txt
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children
1. 12.1.1. Malcolm Hamilton Cathcart [James father] b 1736 Persfield West Meath m Miss Humphreys dau of Edward Humphrey of Dublin. Who was he? influential for barristers
children
Papers relating to a marriage settlement, Malcolm Cathcart and Elizabeth Humfrey, July 1757,
Dublin: Public Record Office, M.5444 (1-3)
Edward Humfrey of Dublin died 1760, Will proven 1763 in which he names his wife, Anne, son Rolleston, dau Anne Maria married to Robnett, and his dau Elizabeth married to Cathcart ( marriage settlement, Malcolm Cathcart and Elizabeth Humfrey, July 1757)
( https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSMQ-K9BW-N?i=531&cat=185720 and next page.)
you then have the Deed 163500 Rolleston Humfrey to Cathcart in Mt Murray
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSJW-WJ98?i=37&cat=185720
Edward Humfrey of Dublin who died 1760 had siblings Arthur (Will to his son Rolleston!), Harry, Francis, John**, Rolleston (d. 1747, Will proven 23 Oct 1748), Katharin and Anne all children of Henry Humfrey/Ms. Cotham of Port Cournan (?), Co Westmeath, with Henry d. 4 July 1709, Will proven 29 July 1709
John**.. has children Henry, Thomas, Herbert, Catherine ( married Richard Nugent) and Elizabeth (married Alderman Daniel Cook)
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Cathcart Registered Deeds
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"Edward Humfrey of Dublin died 1760, Will proven 1763 in which he names his wife, Anne, son Rolleston, dau Anne Maria married to Robnett,..."
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSH3-MQDR-X?i=87&cat=185720
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"Edward Humfrey of Dublin died 1760, Will proven 1763 in which he names his wife, Anne, son Rolleston, dau Anne Maria married to Robnett,..."
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSH3-MQDR-X?i=87&cat=185720
Links Fermanagh to Westmeath! ;D
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Just looked up the Will (as per deeds posted ) registered in Dublin.....
Strange Will! ;D
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSH3-SWVR-C?i=416&cat=185720
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My last thoughts. The original quest was to connect James Cathcart Leeds comedian back to ireland, he appears to be James (Leander) Cathcart b 1800 or b 1807 apparently trained to be a barrister in Dublin. Dublin’s University was Trinity College so he would not have admitted to their law school until after say 1823 and married before 1832 , so there is a 9 year gap to find his existence/admittance to do a law degree, his digs or wherever he stayed in Dublin.
During that time period 1823-1832
I tried unsuccessfully a general search on Trinity College Trhttps://www.tcd.ie/search/q/?q=cathcart&x=0&y=0&entqr=0&ud=1&sort=date%3AD%3AL%3Ad1&output=xml_no_dtd&oe=UTF-8&ie=ISO-8859-1&client=default_frontend&proxystylesheet=default_frontend&site=default_collection&tcdsearchcollection=alltcd&tcdsearchq=cathcart&start=30
there is an Alumini which includes admissions BUT I could not find my way onto it, appears to be pub 1926
Using online street directories. almanacks etc
Wilson 1820 source several [I was looking forCathcarts in Dublin]
Eliza Cathcart boarding school 65 Stephen Street [see the entries same address for Attorneys below
Wilson 1830 [ I didn’t find a Wilsons for say 1831 -2 listed anywhere ]https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=wu.89096950837&view=1up&seq=10
SECTIONS tried
Barristers at law with dates of Admission
The name Cathcart has no entries
Nobility and gentry
The name Cathcart has no entries
Attorneys
Cathcart RN KCE 65 Stephen s. Attorneys KCE Solicitorsdenotes which Court they belonged to
Cathcart R KCE 65 Upper Stephen street.Attorney
Robert Jonesand son & Cathcart KCE 21 Peter Street [looks interesting]
so the link to England remains unproven
So James could have joined a surname sakes solicitors
So James could have been admitted to law school
there is no evidence yet he finished law school
on the basis of the 1830 Wilson lists, he is not named as a barrister
on the basis of Wilson lists after 1830, he could be named as a barrister
there is no evidence yet he became a barrister
if he did become a barrister and was given no work, so turning away from his previous career he might have started being a comedian in Dublin.
perhaps a newspaper index might find his first marriage
so the link to England remains unproven
the most likely connection already given by Hallmark re NLI citations
An interesting person
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Maybe qualified at King's Inns Dublin?
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https://www.kingsinns.ie/website/library/library.htm
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I have more than I can find hidden in old files from my Cathcart searches but I stumbled on this through wikipedia after researching meanings and uses of Faucit in addition to Rolleston and Leander.
A short biog. but perhaps you can contact the author aand bloggista Norma Hampson, heers, Ian
https://www.shakespeare.org.uk/explore-shakespeare/blogs/james-leander-cathcart-visits-birthplace/
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https://www.kingsinns.ie/website/library/library.htm
This gives the following:
Page not found
Sorry, you’ve found an outdated link or a page that never existed.
Maybe this:
https://www.kingsinns.ie/library/library
KG
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https://www.terrys.org.uk/charts/c/cathc700.htm
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Area - DUBLIN (COI) , Parish/Church/Congregation - ST. NICHOLAS WITHOUT
Marriage of ROLLESTON NASAU CATHCART of N/R and SOPHIA MURRAY of N/R on 3 February 1816
no image online!
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https://www.kingsinns.ie/website/library/library.htm
This gives the following:
Page not found
Sorry, you’ve found an outdated link or a page that never existed.
Maybe this:
https://www.kingsinns.ie/library/library
KG
Dunno Why....just click on link posted and got this
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,
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Name ROLLESTON NASSAU CATHCART
Address STEPHEN ST., PAR ST. BRIDGET
Age 72
Date of Death N/R N/R N/R
Occupation N/R
Further details in the record
Cemetery ST. KEVIN
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https://www.google.com/maps/place/St+Kevin's+Park/@53.3363892,-6.2666275,15z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x0:0xfc1d84a353c3406f!8m2!3d53.3363892!4d-6.2666275
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Just noticed Rolestown north of Dublin on an old map. I previously posted about a village in England but as they were all connected to Dublin perhaps this is more likely, cheers, Ian