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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Staffordshire => Topic started by: FlutterBye on Thursday 19 November 09 08:51 GMT (UK)
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Hi
I wondered if anyone knows anything about the family of George Smith. I have read just about everything written about him, except I don't seem to be able to find anything about his personal life, I see him on the census, 41 to 71, but no family, read about every hanging etc looking for clues, scrolled thru the Rowley Regis transcipts for a birth or marriage, but alas nothing.
The reason I ask is an old family legend and possible connection, I would love to know one way or the other.
Thanks
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Hi FlutterBye
I googled since, not being a local, I didn't know who he was ..... ;D
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oakham,_Dudley
http://www.bbc.co.uk/stoke/content/articles/2008/07/04/stafford_gaol_feature.shtml
Smith the "Dudley Higgler"
".....1840 hob-nailer George Smith became an apprentice hangman at Stafford Gaol.
Prison life was nothing new to George, who'd served time on two occasions for running naked in the streets of Wednesbury and for debt and failing to support his family. .........known as the "Dudley Higgler", a higgler being a slang term for a hangman. It was George Smith who placed the noose around the neck of one of Staffordshire's most notorious murderers, Dr William Palmer..."
Have you seen this photo of him?
http://www.search.staffspasttrack.org.uk/engine/resource/default.asp?resource=615
Cheers
AMBLY
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Hmm, I'm confused.....
All the googling, refers to him being born 1805 Rowley Regis.
In 2 out of 3 Census where POB is stated, it has Walsall as his place of birth - but there is a possible IGI christening record for Rowley Regis in 1806......maybe he was born in Walsall but chr. in Rowley Regis?
http://www.capitalpunishmentuk.org/hangmen.html
Resident of Oakham, Dudley
Born in Rowley Regis 1805, died 1874
In 1840 when he became an Assistant Executioner, he was himself in prison,
He had a son, also named George, who assisted in 3 hangings at Stafford
http://www.rootschat.com/links/07ih/
A Google Book reference calls him a Cattle Dealer - in contrast to the "Hob Nailer" or 'Nailor' mentioned in other sites. In all census bar 1, he is an Ag Lab or labourer.
It is the Census which gives clues as to his parentage.....
1841: Oakham, Rowley Regis - 2 consecutive households :
HO107 / Piece 997 / Book: 1 /Folio: 31 / Page: 6
//
Samuel SMITH 46, Ag Lab - b Staffs
Mary SMITH 46 - b Staffs
John SMITH 19, Ag Lab - b Staffs
//
Frances SMITH 73 - Not born Staffs
/
George SMITH 30, AG Lab . b Staffs
Joseph WITHERENCE 25, Ag Lab , b Staffs
William WOODALL 25, AG Lab, b Staffs
Richard HARRIS 24, AG Lab, not born Staffs
//
1851: Oakham, Rowley Regis has the following 2 consecutive households:
Head: Samuel SMITH 56, Labourer
Wife: Mary SMITH 55,
Head: George SMITH 46, Widower, Labourer
Servant: Mary MASON 78, Widow, Housekeeper
Inmate: John MATTHEWS 60, unm, Labourer
Inmate: Richard LEWIS 63, unm, Labourer
Inmate:Richard HARRIS 39, unm, Labourer
Inmate: William HEWIT 40, unm, Labourer
[All born Rowley]
1861 : Oakham, Rowley Regis - sole occupant of his household:
RG9 / Piece: 2037 / Folio: 61 / Page: 1
Head: George SMITH 54, unm, AG Lab, b Walsall Staffs
And enumerated immediately before him
Head: Samuel Smith 66, Ag Lab b Oakham
Wife: Mary 65 , b Oakham
1871: Oakham, Rowley Regis - sole occupant of his household:
Head: George SMITH 70, unm, Public Hangman Executioner, b Walsall Staffs
RG10 / Piece: 2992 / Folio: 65 / Page: 4
No sign of Samuel & Mary in 1871.
Neighbours in all these Census are the same throughout.
It does seem to suggest Frances was his mother and Samuel his brother....
IGI: [P009901]
Samuel SMITH chr 28 Dec 1794 Rowley Regis - parents: Thomas SMITH & Francis.
Charles SMITH chr 9 Apr 1797 Rowley Regis - parents: Thomas SMITH & Francis
George SMITH chr 27 Apr 1806 Rowley Regis - parents Thomas SMITH and Frances
Cheers
AMBLY
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Fabulous thx AMBLY, I'll get cracking and see if I can turn something up.
Thanks
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I am as far as I know (told by my dad) are directly related to him. My family have always lived in rowley regis and my dad and his other brothers and sister were born on turners hill in rowley. Dont know much about my family tree but could find out from my dad if thats any help.
Danielle
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Hi Danielle
I sent you a pm.
Thanks
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I beleive Danielle has to make 2 more public postings on Rootschat, before she can send or recieve PM's :)
Cheers
AMBLY
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I did get your PM im just in the middle of getting as much info off older relatives that a can, I dont know how far I will be able to go back. Are you a Smith yourself and do you live far from Rowley Regis
Dani x
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I beleive Danielle has to make 2 more public postings on Rootschat, before she can send or recieve PM's :)
Cheers
AMBLY
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Hi I'm Danielle's farther when I was little my dad would always tell me about my great great grandad George smith the hangman,I lived half way up turners hill with the quarry at the Bothe sides of us and my other grandad was the Forman and ran Bothe sides of the quarry and we had lots of fun riding the mettle trucks up and down the quarry
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Hi James
Thanks for your reply. Do you know who George Smith married or his kids names, as I'm trying to prove or disprove our family legend, it may turn out we are related.
I see George on the census's (also provided by AMBLY) that he stated he was unmarried.
Thanks
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Well that's what my dad tol me he wasn't married,are you a smith and where do you come from do you remember the the hangmand tree??
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Hi JamesHenry
Did you get my PM
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I too am a direct descendant.All from Rowley Regis initially too.
He actually looks like my Dad. Also, we have him as a relative on both Dads and Moms families (I know cousins shouldn't marry !!!).
Our Families names are : TROMANS & GRIFFIN
Then...
TAYLOR, BIRD, ASHMAN & SMITH.
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Hello, I too was told that our family was related to George Smith. My father died 3 years ago aged 98 and he often talked about the past. His grandfather was William Hall who married Eliza Smith in 1872. Her fathers name was Noah and he was born in Rowley Regis 1814 and he was a nail forger. In 1851 they lived at Turners Hill in Rowley Regis. I would appreciate any information. Thank you June.m
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Hi all,
There are many people here who all have some connection to George Smith, I've also been told for many years that George was part of the family and I too have heard many stories and read many articles. My Great granparents are buried in Rowley Churchyard and my grandfathers name was Joseph, my grandmother was called Bertha Smith and lived in Hanover Road for as long I can remember.
I tried to research more and was told George was buried in 'bottom church' in Dudley, however I have found a grave but remember seeing the name that June mentioned above so I guess its him instead of George, I found some articles located at the Dudley archives in the Dudley tattler (great title for a newspaper) stating George spent is last days at the pub located in City Road, near the bottom, but can't think of the now right now, he spent many of his last days drinking and was charging people 'to shake the hand of the great George Smith'.
I read George had a son called George, but can't confirm this as I'm new to the family archive stuff. I know my grandparents and great grandparents and think the son of George may be my missing link.
Does anyone know where George Smith is buried, I can't find anything to state where he and his family were buried, I believe he was married as he's known to have been arrested and locked away for neglecting his wife and family.
June, if you want to know where that grave is, then please PM me and I'll do my best to describe it, it quite obvious to find as the grave is large.
Thanks all for any information you can give.
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Hi
the black country bugle as a story about George this week
http://www.rootschat.com/links/07x8/
not a lot of info but might be worth a look
Donna
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Hi all
I have an interest in George Smith also, thru George Incher who appeared to take over from Smith for acouple of hangings, I think the George (son) is 'Tango' George Incher and possibly the reported son of Smith you mentioned. Smith could have had a son George. I think Incher entered into the 'trade' via a Smith relative, yet to find the connection.
I think if we corroborate, we can nail this..
June.m I had a look at the census and see Noah, his parents were Joseph and Sarah they were living 5 doors away from George Smith on the 41 & 51. Possible relationship.. On the 51 Joseph is born Birmingham.
If anyone knows the name of George Smith's wife and children, please post, there was a report he was jailed for abandonment, so he's got a family.
I think this is George Smith's father (father Thomas, and mother Francis on 41)
Burial - 30 Dec 1838 Thomas Smith, Oakham, 68, Pleurisy. (info Rowley disc)
Frances is living with son George on the 41 (see Ambly post).
Tango, do you have anymore info about your Joseph Smith and Bertha? as there are heaps of Joseph Smith's..
Cheers
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Smith-Jones
Re.Geo.Incher assistant hangman. I believe he was the son of Enoch +Ester Incher -Bapt.13 March 1825 St Thomas Dudley.
I also believe his father Enoch + my ancestor George were brothers.
Baptisms St Thomas Dudley George 31 Jan 1790
Enoch 16 Oct 1791
+ William Parents- Wlm + Sarah
Re.Smith -Incher connection-
Marriage George Incher +Sarah Smith St Martins Tipton 22 July 1811.
Could Sarah have been a sister to Geo Smith (hangman)? Have no evidence-not really gone into this side.
Jackie
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Hi Jackie
I wonder if the parish marriage record would tell us anything more about the couple 'Marriage George Incher +Sarah Smith St Martins Tipton 22 July 1811'.
They had 3 children that I could find.
Looks like George died 1818, wonder if Sarah remarried as she would have been abt 30ish.
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I believe this could be the 2nd marriage of Sarah Incher(Smith)
John Stanton +Sarah Hincher 18 Nov 1821 Kingswinford Staffs
Children of the above bapt at St Thomas Dudley
Ann Maria 1822
John 1824
Mary 1826
My reason for thinking this...
1841 census Dixons Green Dudley Worcs
William Wakelum + family + John Stanton 17 + Mary Stanton 15
living next house
John Vickers 20
Sarah 20 INCHER married John V in 1839 father George a collier
George 2
So Sarah half sister to John+ Mary
Jackie
Sarah 20 (Incher-married John V in 1839 -father George a collier
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Blimey!! did I have some trouble trying to do that last message!! but how about this..
Marriage Sarah Stanton + William Wakelam 18 Jan 1830 St Thomas Dudley.
Dixons Green - hop -skip and a jump from Rowley
Jackie.
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A Drunken Hangman
George Incher-cattle drover + hangman was charged with being drunk at Dudley,said he was trying to get his son released from prison.
Was fined 2s/ 6d + costs or a weeks imprisonment. Said he should go to Worcester + was removed in custody.
Aug 12 1877
Jackie.
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Hi Jackie
That's a great find with the Sarah snr marriages, I agree got to be her, ties up for sure, especially living next door to daug Sarah 'Vickers'. I'll organise myself and order the fiche see if that tells us anymore regarding her 3 marriages and hopefully her parents. What we need is her parents to be Thomas & Francis.
I suspect in that newspaper article George was trying to visit son Enoch who had also been imprisioned in 1879 & 1887. In 1879 Enoch served 9 calender months for Larceny and former conviction for felony, possibly the former conviction was in 1877.
George (hangman) b 1825 had a bro William he also married a Sarah Smith she died in Honolulu, her father was James Smith born abt 1806 Dudley, I haven't done much on this line, James's wife was Lucy Hollies, found them on the 41 & 51 living at Woodside.
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Smith-Jones
Sorry for the late reply, the information you asked for:
My late grandmother was Bertha Smith and was born in Rowley Regis around 1912, she married William Woodhouse, know as Bill to all, but not sure when as yet. Bertha’s parents are buried in Rowley Church (St. Giles??), I’ve recently found that grave. The grave states the following information:
Margaret Elizabeth Smith died 4th May 1953 aged 62
Also Joseph Smith died 30th August 1963 aged 78.
I also believe they were married at the same church, I know from doing my wife’s side of the family that I’m one possibly two generations away from George, I know from the above information I should be able to narrow down Joseph’s parents from census or marriage details, I read somewhere George Smith (hangman) had a son called George and I was naively thinking that Joseph’s father was George.
My apologies for my ignorance but I’m starting fairly new here and I’ve only starting researching my family over the last couple of months, something I’ve always wanted to do and now I can’t stop, find myself in a lot more graveyards recently ;
Hope this helps, I’m going to find Josephs and Margarets marriage details and check the census too.
PS, Can anyone advise on a site to list known census areas or parish areas, for instance Oakham comes under Worcestershire and sometime Staffordshire, I guess the border is near there.
Thanks
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Hi Tango
Welcome to this amazing addicitive, rewarding and at times very frustrating all consuming and very satisifing hobby... ;D
Here's a possible. I'm not sure how far back you have gone with the Smith's.
I see a Bertha Smith born Dec 1914 mothers surname Mullett/Mullet, there are quite a few other kids, have a look at the site freebmd, and you can piece together their son's and daug's.
You will have to get Joseph & Margaret's marriage cert, this will confirm Joseph's father, at this point we should be able to confirm the right Joseph on the census.
There's this marriage that's promising, keep in mind that you have to check and recheck any information posted.
Marriages Jun 1909
MULLETT MARGARET ELIZABETH Dudley 6c 99
SMITH Joseph Dudley 6c 99
When I search say Ancestry, I search both Staffs & Worcs, your right the borders did change between census's.
Cheers
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Smith-Jones
Thanks once again, I'll get this checked out, I used most of my credits on findmypast to find the marriage details, inexperience I guess as I know Bertha was born around 1911 / 12, so I assumed they were married before that, and I know when Margaret was born, so did a search from when she was sixteen to when I know Bertha was born, sound logical. Need to get used to what tools I have at my disposal.
I also believe they were married at St Giles, again I assume it will state at what Church on this marriage certificate.
Just tried freebmd and guess what 'service unavailable'. Anyway this looks right and I've just spoken to my aunt finally who has confirmed this date of marriage is correct and they were married at St. Giles, I assumed the district would then be Rowley Regis though.
I'll get this certificate ordered and confirm who Joseph's father is.
Thanks all
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Hi
from West Midlands BMD
1909
SMITH Joseph
MULLETT Margaret E
Rowley Regis, St Giles
18/10/370
the registers are at Sandwell archives
Community History & Archive Service
Smethwick Library
High Street,
Smethwick,
West Midlands
B66 1AA
Email: archives_service@sandwell.gov.uk
they used to do copy's for about 50p don't know if they still doing it
Donna
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Donna,
Thankyou so much!
May I ask how you got the information, I seem to be learning how to do stuff every minute from this forum, I used the information from 'smith-jones' and have just used freebmd (which is now back up) to find the associated record (6c 99) but how do you correlate such information ??
Thanks.
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Hi
I use this site
http://www.bmsgh.org/wmbmd/
the last 3 numbers 18/10/370 are when you are at the archives it the number of the marriage in the register
donna
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Hi All
If anyone has access to the newspapers in the area, wonder if this is the death of George's mother, age is right for the 41 post earlier.
21 Dec 1845 - Frances Smith, Oakham, 76, Burnt.
TRO19721 - Would you put up some of your Smith's, I'd like to track them back thru the census, hopeful of a connection.
Cheers
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Ok, Getting Closer.
I've spoke to another family member who belives George Smith had a son called George, although I can't find anything for that, I've ordered a marriage certificate which should prove the joseph Smith I mentioned earlier was the son of James and Phoebe Smith from Rowley Regis, I knw this information is correct, I've then found a possible marriage for James and Phoebe at Dudley Register Office in 1876, James would be 21 and Phoebe was 18, they had 2 sons (Joseph and James) and a daughter called May.
I'm now hoping that James and Phoebe marriage certificate list George Smith (Junior) as his father.
If anyone wants to confirm this, please let me know ;) I'm 2 generation away now.
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Sorry for the double post, Smith_Jones, could you please tell me what newspaper that was in, the Dudley Tattler (Brilliant name for a newspaper) is good, but is the Dudley Herald one too ??
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Hi Tango
Possibly your James and Phoebe..
1881
9 Darbys Hill, Rowley
James Smith 24 - Stone cutter
Phoebe Smith 22 - b Oldbury
Fanny Smith 19 - Boarder
others b Rowley
Possibly Fanny is James's sister, need to find the 1871 with James.
1891
Mince?, Rowley
James Smith 35 - Labourer at colliery?
Phoeba Smith 32
Elizabeth Smith 10 - b Oldbury
Mary Smith 9
Joseph Smith 6
James Smith 2
others b Rowley
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Sorry for the double post, Smith_Jones, could you please tell me what newspaper that was in, the Dudley Tattler (Brilliant name for a newspaper) is good, but is the Dudley Herald one too ??
I meant did anyone have access to the local newspaper archive, when it said burnt I immediately thought house fire, but thinking about it possibly could have been died from any old burns.. I'll see if I have order her death cert.
21 Dec 1845 - Frances Smith, Oakham, 76, Burnt.
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Poss your James and family
1861
Portway, Rowley
John Smith 35 - Stoneminer
Elizabeth Smith 38 - b Birmingham
Mary A Smith 14
Alfred Smith 11 - b Dudley
Warrick Smith 10 (Harriet)
James Smith 5
Emelia Smith 1
Richard Harris 44 - Boarder - Stoneminer - b Dudley
others b Rowley
1871
Portway, Rowley
John Smith 49 - Labourer in stone quarry
Elizabeth Smith 46 - b Birmingham
James Smith 15 - Labourer in stone quarry
Hanny Smith 9 (Fanny on image)
Joseph Smith 7
Richard Harris 53 - Boarder - Labourer in stone quarry - b Halesowen
other b Rowley
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Smith-Jones,
Thanks, got that checked out and seems right, I think I've busted the family theory though, it would make John Smith born around 1826, so the next generation back would be George Smith (Hangman) he was born around 1805. I believe according to the web he had a son called George, so this doesn't fit.
Ican only assume it must be some relation to John maybe, but it certainly doesn't fit as a direct link. There seems little evidence to prove that Geoge had a son anywhere, he must have I guess, but I'm at a dead end on this one now, onto the next in the list, if anyone else has any information on the children of George Smith (IE George jnr) then please post here so I lay this ghost to rest finally, he's in the family somewhere just don't know where, aaaahhhh, frustrating, thanks for everyones help.
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Hi Tango
To prove the theory, you would need John and Elizabeths marriage cert, that would tell you John's father, then you would know for sure, do you have any of the kids of this couple birth cert, that will tell you the mothers maiden name, from there you could order the cert.
Cheers
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Managed to sort my immediate family, no George Smith, to keep this thread alive can anyome shed any light on George Smiths children, we know George senior had a son called George, are there any references to this or especially to George Smiths junior relashonships, was he ever married, where and to whom, there is very little evidence around and a thousand George Smiths to go through, someone somewhere must be related to George Junior.
Smith-Jones, you were right, very addictive, swapped the gym for the archives, how sad is that ;)
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;D way more fun than the gym.. thanks Tango
I received Francis Smith death cert, unfortunately no family members were informants.. I was hoping for one of the son's quote from Ambly post
19 Dec 1845 at Oakham Rowley Regis, Francis Smith, Widow, 77 years, Accidentally burnt, 30hrs
Quote from Ambly
IGI: [P009901]
Samuel SMITH chr 28 Dec 1794 Rowley Regis - parents: Thomas SMITH & Francis.
Charles SMITH chr 9 Apr 1797 Rowley Regis - parents: Thomas SMITH & Francis
George SMITH chr 27 Apr 1806 Rowley Regis - parents Thomas SMITH and Frances
Next step to follow the other 2 sons thru the census's.
Your right Tango, we need to know if George Smith had children.
Cheers
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All,
Check the 1861 census,
Samuel and Mary Smith , 4 Oakham, ages 66 and 65
then living at 5 Oakham is George Smith age 54
Dates fit, could George and Samuel be neighbours in 1861, George was born around 1806 and Samuel in 1794.
This is good for me as I have think my connection is John Smith (B 1822)
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Ok, rotally confused now, had the marriage certificate back for James Smith and Phoebe Fellows, I expected to find John Smith listed as the the father, no its listed as William. I expected to find my link to George as follows, just doesnt fit, so frustrating:
Bertha, Joseph, James, John, Samuel, Thomas.
Samuel had two other brothers and George was one of them, I thought this list was my link, but seeing William on the marriage cert has totally confused me.
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Hi Tango
That's a shame, but you never know still might lead back to George.
What was William's occupation?
Is this your James
1881
9 Darbys Hill, Rowley
James Smith 24 - Stone cutter
Phoebe Smith 22 - b Oldbury
Fanny Smith 19 - Boarder
others b Rowley
Possibly Fanny is James's sister, need to find the 1871 with James.
1891
Mince?, Rowley
James Smith 35 - Labourer at colliery?
Phoeba Smith 32
Elizabeth Smith 10 - b Oldbury
Mary Smith 9
Joseph Smith 6
James Smith 2
others b Rowley
Thanks
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OK,
Williams occupation was listed as Labourer ;)
Had James Smith and Phoebe Fellows marriage certificate back, however it list the father as William Smith and I have to say I was expecting to see John Smith (then Samuel Smith, which was Georges' (hangman) brother. Could anyone shed any light on this, I can't find any William that had a son called George, Totally loosing the plot with with, I know James Smith and associated sons are in place, but this just doesn't add up.
Any ideas, has anyone else found anything else out ??
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Hi everyone,
Just discovered George Smith - Hangman, was the hangman responsible for carrying out the execution of my GGG. Grandmother Sarah Westwood in 1844...
The only woman he ever hanged in his career apparently...
I decend from her eldest son Charles Westwood who was 17 at the time, his mother sarah murdered her huspand by putting arsenic in his gruel..!! poor guy...!!
Regards
Andy
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OK All,
Here goes, found my link. The marriage certificate I listed in my last post was wrong. It shoud've been 1878, not 1876. The certificate lists John Smith as James's father, which is what I mentioned in my last post. I visited my late fathers Aunt last week, she was a lovely lady of 97, with a great recollection of her close family.
She said George, the hangman was her great grandfathers brother. George Smith only had one son as far we know and George junior just gets swallowed up by the census somewhere as they travelled around alot. My link is through Bertha - Joseph - James - John (then either Charles or Samuel).
I now need John's birth certificate and marriage certificate to find out his parents, its either Thomas or Charles, its certainly not George.
My questions for the good people of Rootschat are:
Does anyone know the details of John and his wife?
Can anyone shed any light on where they were married?
Can anyone share any information for Charles or Samuel (George's brothers) That's my connection? This is the big one, I need to know their children ??
I know where Joseph and James are buried, I found James' grave at the weekend.
I've learned to check and re-check my information as my tree has grown, but you can't beat old fashioned talking to people if you have the chance, my fathers aunt had some great stories, you can't get them from the census ;)
Any information, greatly received and I'm more than willing to share any information I have.
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Does anyone know the names of George Smiths(hangman) siblings?
I'm wondering if there is a connection between George Smith + George Incher (hangman) nephew of George Incher + Sarah Smith(1790)
a witness to the Incher-Smith marriage(Tipton 1811) was a Joseph Smith.
Sarah(re-married) was living at Dixons Green Dudley in 1841 census, not that far from Rowley.
I can't exactly establish her baptism.
Jackie
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Siblings for George
IGI: [P009901]
Samuel SMITH chr 28 Dec 1794 Rowley Regis - parents: Thomas SMITH & Francis.
Charles SMITH chr 9 Apr 1797 Rowley Regis - parents: Thomas SMITH & Francis
George SMITH chr 27 Apr 1806 Rowley Regis - parents Thomas SMITH and Frances
Had a look thru the RR disc don't see a Sarah or Joseph to Thomas & Francis.
Wonder if Joseph was her father?
................It is the Census which gives clues as to his parentage.....
1841: Oakham, Rowley Regis - 2 consecutive households :
HO107 / Piece 997 / Book: 1 /Folio: 31 / Page: 6
//
Samuel SMITH 46, Ag Lab - b Staffs
Mary SMITH 46 - b Staffs
John SMITH 19, Ag Lab - b Staffs
//
Frances SMITH 73 - Not born Staffs
/
George SMITH 30, AG Lab . b Staffs
Joseph WITHERENCE 25, Ag Lab , b Staffs
William WOODALL 25, AG Lab, b Staffs
Richard HARRIS 24, AG Lab, not born Staffs
//
1851: Oakham, Rowley Regis has the following 2 consecutive households:
Head: Samuel SMITH 56, Labourer
Wife: Mary SMITH 55,
Head: George SMITH 46, Widower, Labourer
Servant: Mary MASON 78, Widow, Housekeeper
Inmate: John MATTHEWS 60, unm, Labourer
Inmate: Richard LEWIS 63, unm, Labourer
Inmate:Richard HARRIS 39, unm, Labourer
Inmate: William HEWIT 40, unm, Labourer
[All born Rowley]
1861 : Oakham, Rowley Regis - sole occupant of his household:
RG9 / Piece: 2037 / Folio: 61 / Page: 1
Head: George SMITH 54, unm, AG Lab, b Walsall Staffs
And enumerated immediately before him
Head: Samuel Smith 66, Ag Lab b Oakham
Wife: Mary 65 , b Oakham
1871: Oakham, Rowley Regis - sole occupant of his household:
Head: George SMITH 70, unm, Public Hangman Executioner, b Walsall Staffs
RG10 / Piece: 2992 / Folio: 65 / Page: 4
No sign of Samuel & Mary in 1871.
Neighbours in all these Census are the same throughout.
It does seem to suggest Frances was his mother and Samuel his brother....
IGI: [P009901]
Samuel SMITH chr 28 Dec 1794 Rowley Regis - parents: Thomas SMITH & Francis.
Charles SMITH chr 9 Apr 1797 Rowley Regis - parents: Thomas SMITH & Francis
George SMITH chr 27 Apr 1806 Rowley Regis - parents Thomas SMITH and Frances
Cheers
AMBLY
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Evening All,
Its late, I'm tired but wanted to get this one in before I go off on my hols. I've found my link to George Smith and its what I kind of expected. My link is Bertha Smith (Born 1914), Joseph Smith (Born 1885), James (Born 1855), John (Born 1822), Samuel (Born 1795). Joseph and James are buried at St Giles Church in Rowley, if anyone has any information on the any of the other Smith burials I'd love to know where they are.
There were 3 brothers (all listed in this thread) born to Thomas and Francis Smith. There was George (Hangman), Samuel (my Great x4 grandfather) and Charles.
I can prove all the above by BMD certs. My special thanks to SmithandJones and Flutterbye for their research, really helped. If anyone has anymore information on any of these Smiths, I'd love to hear from you.
Can't be bothered to spell check this, need sleep, Thanks all, happy hunting ;)
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I assume you know that there is a large unpublished book on the history of Stafford Gaol by A J Stanley at the William Salt library in Staffford.
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Hi,
No I didn't. What does the book cover and is access available. I know George was responsible for some hangings at Stafford and I believe there is a mention that he had a sone called George too.
Can you shed any further light on the books contents?
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The book is quite a large tome and covers the history of the gaol from 1793 up about 1901. There are also separate manuscripts on employees of the gaol. My ancestor John Stanton was a warder there from 1848 to 1888. He was there at the time of Palmers hanging. Interestingly one fact i discovered from the book was that another john Stanton was hanged there in 1875 for murder. He wasn't hanged until very late on as no one could be found to perform the duty of hangman, he was the first Stafford man to be hanged in Stafford for 90 years!
Access to the book and other documents is quite easy to obtain, you will require a readers ticket obtainable from the Stafford Records office next door and the library is open most days of the week and every first Saturday in the month till 12.00. Well worth a visit.
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Thanks for that, its on my list now. I have a arn ticket, so I'll gve them a call and make an appointment, I'd like to see if George was on the books.
Thanks for the info.
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i have a few old b.d.m certificates for the smith family, i am the great grandaughter of Joseph and Margeret
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also , a few grave deeds, and old photographs, of the Smith family
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Hello
As a latecomer and with out reading the foregoing have you looked on
books.google.co.uk
type on George Smith Hangman, quite a few 'snippets' come up!
also wiki!
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Hi there, I notice these posts are from a few years ago, did anyone find out anymore detail about George's descendants as I'm told I'm related to him, I'm from the Smith family. Grandparents were Thomas & Maude
Thanks
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I'm unable to reply to messages inbox? My parents Craig Stuart Smith & Marilyn. Grand parents Thomas and Maude Smith. Hope this helps
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Hello Irenna
Welcome to Rootschat.
You have to make 3 posts before activating messages.
Jackie
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Hi
I have been reading all the information in the above messages.
I am wondering if any of the descendants of George Smith, Hangman have tested their DNA?
I have a huge group of matches to my husband which I cannot work out. So I am wondering if this might be a link. If not I am sorry to waste your time
I have a brick wall in researching my husbands family tree. I am not quite sure where to begin.
My husbands great grandfather was George Day, born abt 1831 in Dudley P ( from 1881 census). According to his marriage certificate, (possibly not first marriage) he said his father was Waldron Day. However Waldron Day died in 1826.
His will leaves his wife Mary Ann in a brew house in Dudley.
Looking for a birth I find a Mary Day having a baby called George Smith (Day) in 1831. This was a baptismal record. I did wonder if he could have been the illegitimate son of George Smith and she gave him the name so he would know who his father was.
Waldron Day's mother was Sarah & I have found a George Day aged 10 in the 1841 census living with a Sarah Day, his grandmother.
Regards
Karen