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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Sussex => England => Sussex Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Rufous Treecreeper on Friday 27 November 09 07:56 GMT (UK)
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Hello Chatters,
Hoping someone out there can do a look up for me of Sussex Sea Fencibles for a James Best (b. 1788 Upper Beeding), possibly Shoreham.
I know he was a sailor but not what kind. He was somehow captured by the French and spent 6 years in prison there. Only other sailor information I have on him is that he was 'last in Aberdeen in 1807' and he had also been to Ireland.
Any ideas or suggestions on research avenues would be most welcome.
Thanks,
Mo
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I have a list of Brighton based Sea Fencibles somewhere, so if I can find it, I will have a look at it for you.
Don't hold out too much hope though, for as I understand it, The Sea Fencibles were predominently fishermen formed into a sort of anti-Napolionic home guard on the shoreline. As Napoleon's forces never got here, the capture of any of them during those duties would have been unlikely.
Roy G
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I have a list of Brighton based Sea Fencibles somewhere, so if I can find it, I will have a look at it for you.
Don't hold out too much hope though, for as I understand it, The Sea Fencibles were predominently fishermen formed into a sort of anti-Napolionic home guard on the shoreline. As Napoleon's forces never got here, the capture of any of them during those duties would have been unlikely.
Roy G
It wasn't uncommon for fishing boats to be taken and the crew held for ransom or exchange.
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Thanks Roy and Petmas, as I'm clutching at straws any information in welcome.
I'd wondered whether fisherman and other smaller merchant vessels had been taken by French. If he was taken and ransomed I doubt his family could have paid it, (father was a shepherd).
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Writing to Andy Durr at Brighton's fishing museum may help.
Think they have a website and e-mail address. If nothing else, he may be able to tell you of any incidences when local fiishermen were taken by the French and what transpired.
Roy G
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There are sometimes reports in the Times, I checked but couldn't find anything 1801-20. I know there is a reference to the people of Brighton & Newhaven demanding protection from French vessels attacking on a daily basis and the fishermen not having sailed for some days. Think it was about 1795, I'll see if I can find it
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There are sometimes reports in the Times, I checked but couldn't find anything 1801-20. I know there is a reference to the people of Brighton & Newhaven demanding protection from French vessels attacking on a daily basis and the fishermen not having sailed for some days. Think it was about 1795, I'll see if I can find it
I never knew the French were that keen. I thought that those taken would have had to be nearer the French coast, or even captured in port when the continental system came into being. I was forgetting that until the Battle of Trafalgar the French would have had a considerable presence at sea.
I think there is a maritime museum at New Shoreham too, as this was closer to James' home town I'll try them as well as Brighton.
Once again, thanks for both your help.
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Found my list of Sea Fencibles (published by Jennifer Killick of Hythe Kent, year 2000)
No Bests amongst them. Nearest were some Betts, but they were from the Pevensey and Rye area
Roy G
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Hi Roy,
Thank you very much for looking. I'll just have to keeping hunting and hoping.
Mo
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Roy G would you be able to look up a name in the Sussex Sea Fencibles for me please. It is William Street. I would be grateful for any information.
Thanks
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hi roy, I m also researching Sussex Sea Fencibles, in particular their captain Sir Edmund Nagle .
How doI find any information about them online, as my searches have come up with almost zero. My interest in Nagle centres around his relaionship with the Regent who he served as valet n butler for about 20 yrs and who is the model for Blackadder the Third
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Jude,
First, a very warm welcome to Rootschat.
The Sir Edmund Nagle that "served" the Prince Regent was a distinguished British Admiral. He became a Lieutenant in the Navy in 1777, climbing through the ranks. In 1815 he was appointed to take command of the newly built Prince Regent's royal yacht "Prince George". He frequently accompanied the Prince Regent on social occasions.
When he died, March 1830, age 73, he was described as "Admiral Sir Edmund Nagle, K.C.B., one of the Grooms of his Majesty's Bedchamber" (The Examiner, 21 March 1830).
Struggling to find any reference to Sir Edmund's link, whilst in the Navy, to the Sussex Sea Fencibles. But there is very little out there anyway about this force.
What's the source of the "valet/butler" story?
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Jude,
https://www.british-history.ac.uk/office-holders/vol11/pp20-24
This explains the duties of a Groom of the Chamber and includes the date that Sir Edmund Nagle was appointed to the position.
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Jude,
Suspect you may already have this?
https://threedecks.org/index.php?display_type=show_crewman&id=1424
I discovered this only after I had tracked his naval career from 1777 via various publications. At least my findings agree with the list.
Correction - revisiting the link and reading to the bottom of Edmund's history I have now spotted the name "Jude de Angulo"!!
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Didn't want to ignore your request, but it looks as though hanes teulu already has the matter well in hand. Regards Roy
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I've a 102800 word dossier, some is at my Instagram childe_jude. I was specifically lacking in the Sea Fencibles role, but have found source material. Nagle was Regent George boon companion, and valet equery butler groom twenty years. I can email you the dossier judedeangulo@gmail.com
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Didn't want to ignore your request, but it looks as though hanes teulu already has the matter well in hand. Regards Roy
hanes teulu was of no assistance, I was in particular after specific information about who was in the sussex(brighton) sea fencibles, and what they actually did, Captain Sproule I discovered was the major force there at before Nagle was appointed by the Admiralty during the Crisis. I found some sources after posting the request. Nagle set up camp at the Old Ships Inn and then became chums with Prince George from 1803 to 1830. Thats what the historical facts reveal, although one source says Nagle met George as early as 1795, although its only anecdotal. he was the commodore of the HMY Royal George, and Commander in Chief at Kieth, Guernsey, Newfoundland and Shoreham. He was mates of Mad George II and Sailor King William IV also
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I would liken the Sea fencibles to a maritime Home Guard, from what I've read one of the key reasons for joining was they were exempt from the Press Gangs (assuming they had the chance to explain)
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Didn't want to ignore your request, but it looks as though hanes teulu already has the matter well in hand. Regards Roy
Nagle was appointed a groom to George IV 3months before George III died, and finished 3 months before George IV died coz he himself had died. Nagle was Edmund Burke's cousin, ward, and heir, and mates with Dr Sam Johnson. His cousin David Nagle was the Irish crossdressing highwayman 'Captain Rock'' and his other cousin James Nagle saved the Duke of Wellington's career and life in India at the battle of Assaye in 1803. His other cousin Adolphus Nagle was one of the 400 men who defended the farmhouse La Haye Sainte during the Battle of Waterloo and thus , by many accounts, saved Europe from Napoleon's Grande Armée. His aunt Nano Nagle is an Irish saint, and his grandfather Sir Richard was James II attorney General and Minster of War. He took George IV to Ireland, Scotland and Calais on the yacht. and he married an industrialists widow with a plantation on barbados
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I would liken the Sea fencibles to a maritime Home Guard, from what I've read one of the key reasons for joining was they were exempt from the Press Gangs (assuming they had the chance to explain)
Yes, correct, founded by Admiral Popham originally, and expanded greatly during The Crisis ( 1803 - 5) I was specifically after details of the roles, ranks, duties, and persons of the Sussex Sea Fencibles during the crisis. All the rest I know and have a book written about, and am filling in missing fine details
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The National Archives in ADM 28, Navy Board: Sea Fencibles PayLists 1789-1810
These consist of musters and pay lists receipted by the men acknowledging their receipt of pay.
and appointment of naval officers to the sea fencibles 1798-1810
The records are arranged under districts.
Hope this might help.
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The National Archives in ADM 28, Navy Board: Sea Fencibles PayLists 1789-1810
These consist of musters and pay lists receipted by the men acknowledging their receipt of pay.
and appointment of naval officers to the sea fencibles 1798-1810
The records are arranged under districts.
Hope this might help.
Thank you
Is there a link to this information?
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https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C1737
If you click on Browse, you will get the areas covered, and can see details for individual ports but the lists of men have not been digitised.
A google search on "Sea fencibles pay lists and vouchers" will also take you to the TNA site