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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Antrim => Topic started by: Mykin on Friday 20 November 09 03:33 GMT (UK)
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I am having great difficulty getting passed my gr. grandparents, John Partridge and Jane Alderdice. They were married in1850.I have Jane as b.1831 and John b.1810.They were from Aghlaslone. I was told that John's father's name was Edward and that's all I know. I tried to get the marriage cert. of John and Jane to find the parents names but Proni couldn't find anything.
I don't have ancestry.com. Is there anything else that I could look the name up. I have tried Emerald ancestors also.
That would make Edwards birth about 1780-1785?
Any help is appreciated.
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Ancestry have very few Irish records but 1911 Irish census (1901 to be added soon) and index to civil registration are both online (free). There are alos lots of other links listed in Antrim Resources at the top of this board.
Do you know what religion John and Jane were? Registration of Catholic marriages began 1864 but from 1845 for other marriages.
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The religion of all of the Partridges was Church of Ireland and so far their marriages all took place in Lisburn Cathedral. The earlier marriages could very well be Christ Church, Derriaghy. I see some information on the site above that you mentioned.
If Edward was born in the late 1700's I doubt that he was alive to see the 1901 census and I would only know one person who was related and that would be John .
How do you find the church records of Church of Ireland. It seems like that is my only choice to get any information.
Maybe the C of I records are stored somewhere else.
What I don't understand is why PRONI couldn't find Edward's marriage.
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Marriages ususally take place in the bride's church so the ceremony migt not have been Church of Ireland. Unless it was a Catholic cerremony it should appear in the indexes.
I couldn't find the marriage of my great-great-grandparents in the indexes but had been given an exact date and knew where they both lived. For her family there were 2 possible churches (depending on the date her father had switched churches) and when I looked at the actual registers I found the marriage in one of them- her name correct and his with slight variation in spelling which I'd tried but neither in index.
Back to the missing Partridge marriage- have you checked to see if anything was put in the local newspapers announcing the marriage? Announcements at that time would be very brief but should given date and hopefully the place.
Another possibility is that the marriage took place before 1845- which would explain why it wasn't in the index. Edward was certainly old enough but perhaps Jane was older than you think (is her estimated age based on census or death record?).
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Church of Ireland registers in PRONI are listed here:
www.proni.gov.uk/index/search_the_archives/online_indexes/church_of_ireland_index.htm
Other details listed in RESOURCES.
If the marriage was a non-Catholic ceremony and took place from 1845 onwards it should be listed in civil index-
http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#p=collectionDetails;t=searchable;c=1408347
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I sent away for the marriage cert. of Jane Alderdice but Proni said that they had nothing.
I would like any information possible, especially Jane and John's parents.
Jane Alderdice born. 1831 Derriaghy
" " died, 25, September, 1906 in Magherlave
Married John Partridge 1850 They were both Church of Ireland.
John Partridge b. 1810
d. 27, June, 1888
John was a landholder in the townland of Aughalislone. He worked on the Great Northern Railway
They had thirteen children together.
I would like to know the parents names of Jane and John.
or anything else that can be found. Thank you.
Moderator's Comment: merged with previous topic.
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You are saying then that there is nowhere else to find out the parents names?
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If the marriage had been found in the civil records only the fathers' names would have been listed. Since you are unable to find this marriage (doesn't seem to be in civil index and PRONI unable to find it) it's possible that they never married, that it's either been mis-indexed/not included in the index or that it was a Catholic ceremony (civil registration of Catholic marriages didn't start until 1864).
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Do you know if Jane had any brothers or sisters? If so, their marriage certificates (or death certificates if by any chance they died in Scotland) could give her father's name.
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hi
What records did PRONI actually look up for you. Was it church records?
John
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If the marriage had been found in the civil records only the fathers' names would have been listed. Since you are unable to find this marriage (doesn't seem to be in civil index and PRONI unable to find it) it's possible that they never married, that it's either been mis-indexed/not included in the index or that it was a Catholic ceremony (civil registration of Catholic marriages didn't start until 1864).
The record has been found somewhere as it is listed in Emerald Ancestors, but they don't give the details of families.
100% I know that John Partridge and his wife Jane Alderdice were married and belonged to the Church of Ireland.They were not Catholic.
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Thought you said in your 1st post "I have tried Emerald ancestors also." ???
If you did find the marriage in Emerald Ancestors it should give exact date and place of marriage.
Just to clarify my previous statement- I said that it might have been a Catholic cerremony. One of them might have been Catholic and converted after the marriage.
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hi
What records did PRONI actually look up for you. Was it church records?
John
I sent my money and request in to Proni to obtain John and Jane Partridge's marriage certificate. I did get my grandparents that way and the document states who the father is, the church name, attendants etc.
Jane Alderdice's family owned the Travellers Rest in Derriaghy. It is an over 300 year old Inn.
John Partridge was very high up in the Orange order so they were well known in their community. And he worked on the railway.And he was a land owner.
I don't know any siblings of John as I don't know his parents names. Ulster web site told me it was Edward, but that is all I know.
I know that a lot of records were destroyed, but when you are married in the church or chapel there should be a record of it, unless a fire or?
As they lived in Derriaghy I would presume their church was Derriaghy Church of Ireland. Their two year old son's funeral was from there.
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Thought you said in your 1st post "I have tried Emerald ancestors also." ???
If you did find the marriage in Emerald Ancestors it should give exact date and place of marriage.
Just to clarify my previous statement- I said that it might have been a Catholic cerremony. One of them might have been Catholic and converted after the marriage.
I can no longer find the marriage on Emerald ancestors.
There was no conversion of religions here.
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I couldn't find this marriage at all on Emerald Ancestors so I'm a little puzzled by this thread. Also all marriages I have looked up on the site give an exact date and place of marriage - unless you don't have a subscription (but in that case it only gives county and year - not parish and religion - and doesn't give both surnames).
For registered events (such as post 1845 non-catholic marriages) GRONI is the place to order certificates from, not PRONI. For marriages, if you have the exact date and place (from Emerald Ancestors), it's much cheaper to order the certificate from the district registrar (Emerald also tells you which one, but Lisburn covers Derriaghy). Also note that while the family may have attended one church (usually the husband's family church), they are often married in the bride's family church which maybe different - even if they are both Church of Ireland.
I did find the following in the civil registration indexes:
Jane Alderdice, Marriage, Lisburn District, 1850 Vol 7 p73
which would allow you to order her marriage certificate from GRONI, but no Partridge has the same reference so presumable this Jane married someone different or John used a different spelling of his surname.
You can search for yourself free at:-
http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#p=collectionDetails;t=searchable;c=1408347
Another option would be to search the Belfast Newsletter for a marriage notice - I think there is a subscription site which has indexed this 1740-1900. If the family was prominent locally, a newspaper announcement is a reasonable possibility.
Good luck in your search.
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. William INNIS . Drumbo son of James Innis ; married Jane Alderdice 7 Mar 1850
So you needn't send for the certificate of that marriage.
Jane's father was George, farmer
Have you seen this website?? The names Alderdice and Partridge appear here.
http://www.lisburn.com/books/derriaghy/derriaghy5.html
RosemaryJoan
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I have been on so many sites including emerald ancestors, as a member and didn't write down where I found the the information. I did find other family members in E.A
At any rate there has to be somewhere where this man, John Partridge is registered. He lived all of his life in one area.
One wonders why PRONI wouldn't pass my request on to GRONI.
There are several Jane Alderdices from N.Ireland, it's possible it was a different one than my relative. :)
Don't you find it odd that a bride was mentioned but no groom?
No person by the name of John Partridge was found on the site that you offered. Odd as there must be 50 John Partridges on other sites.
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There are several Jane Alderdices from N.Ireland, it's possible it was a different one than my relative.
Don't you find it odd that a bride was mentioned but no groom?
Are you refering to this?
I did find the following in the civil registration indexes:
Jane Alderdice, Marriage, Lisburn District, 1850 Vol 7 p73
which would allow you to order her marriage certificate from GRONI, but no Partridge has the same reference so presumable this Jane married someone different or John used a different spelling of his surname.
You can search for yourself free at:-
http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#p=collectionDetails;t=searchable;c=1408347
Brides and Grooms are indexes separately in civil index (akanex2 has given the link for it) but think that entry has been ruled out by this information from RosemaryJoan-
William INNIS . Drumbo son of James Innis ; married Jane Alderdice 7 Mar 1850
So you needn't send for the certificate of that marriage.
Jane's father was George, farmer
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Just a thought - were John Partridge and Jane Alderdice Quakers?? If so, they may have had a Quaker marriage - no priest etc. and no registration. Civil registration of marriages started in 1845 I believe, so just MAYBE they were already living together then. I notice that they had children after 1864 whose births were registered, but what about the children born before 1864? No apparent sign of them. There was a strong Quaker contingent in Lisburn.
RosemaryJoan
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Hi
For marriages before 1845 and Births before 1864 you would need to know the Church that they attended. By looking up the church records you could find their marriage and births of their children.
John
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No person by the name of John Partridge was found on the site that you offered. Odd as there must be 50 John Partridges on other sites.
If you back to the site again, you will find John Partridge Senior leasing land and paying tithes in 1845 in Legmore Townland, and John Partrige (no d) doing the same in Aughalislane. Also Edward and Matthew Alderdice in Derriaghy Townland.
RosemaryJoan
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The item that you wrote about is not my Jane Alderdice. She married John Partridge in 1850 approx.
They were not Quakers, R.Catholics, They were both Church of Ireland,Christ Church Derriaghy, which is Church of Ireland, and they were married, as were their parents before them,
and some of their sons after them, as was my grandfather Boomer Partridge. They were all very high up in the Royal Black (Sir) or the
Orange Lodge (Grand Master). They would not have been allowed to live together out of a marriage or marry another religion.
I think the only way to get their marriage cert. is through the Christ Church in Derriaghy. But, How would I go about doing that?
They very well could have had a civil marriage in their church, from what I've seen most people did have civil marriages. I just need the document.
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hi
Have you seen this about Christ Church Derriaghy.
http://www.lisburn.com/books/derriaghy/derriaghy6.html
You can view some of the records at PRONI if you live in Northern ireland or email them. Be warned they will charge for doing lookups.
Another way would be to try contacting the church direct.
John
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No person by the name of John Partridge was found on the site that you offered. Odd as there must be 50 John Partridges on other sites.
If you back to the site again, you will find John Partridge Senior leasing land and paying tithes in 1845 in Legmore Townland, and John Partrige (no d) doing the same in Aughalislane. Also Edward and Matthew Alderdice in Derriaghy Townland.
RosemaryJoan
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I believe all of the people listed are "land owners," I know they were land owners and also owned the 300 year old Inn in Derriaghy called Travellers Rest. (name changed last year to something else.)The Alderdice family owned that Inn, the same family that their Jane married John, my gr grandfather. Jane alderdice's father's name I believe was William. That's why I don't understand why there isn't any information on my gr. grandparents as they were very well known.
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hi
Have you seen this about Christ Church Derriaghy.
http://www.lisburn.com/books/derriaghy/derriaghy6.html
You can view some of the records at PRONI if you live in Northern ireland or email them. Be warned they will charge for doing lookups.
Another way would be to try contacting the church direct.
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Yes, I have that information. When I sent to PRONI for their marriage cert. I was told I should have sent to GRONI. But thank you John that is a fantastic site. What I need is John Partridge's Parents names so I can go on with my research. Their line goes back to the Huguenots and somewhere there will be a Boomer (Bulmer) male marrying a Partridge and the name Boomer has passed down as first names in my side of the family. But I need John Partridge's father and mother.
names to guide me on. It is most frustrating as they would have been well known in the Derriaghy area.
John
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hi
You won't get a Marriage Cert. from PRONI but they should have been able to look up the Church's records to see if there was a marriage and give you the details. If i have time over Christmas i will be going to PRONI and I will have a look for you.
So John Partridge and Jane Alderdice were married in about 1850 in Christ Church Derriaghy. You want details of Parents and if i can find their births.
John
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Mykin, it was myself who was researching the Orange in the area, and with John being a Past Master of my own lodge I had started to research the surname about a year a go.
I've no doubt at all that all the Partridges in the area were associated with Derriaghy Church of Ireland as you have quite rightly stated - the Inn itself is a stones throw from the Church.
There are two Partridge burials in the 1840s that I have noted down in the past but can't remember why or where from:
PARTRIDGE
Daniel Partridge
died 26 Jan 1849 aged 82
Elenor Partridge
died 31 Jan 1845 aged 56
If I were you I'd also look into the marriage of Hugh Partridge and Ellen Wiley - I believe his father was called Thomas and this could well have been John's father also.
If you can hold up until Christmas, I am planning a visit to the PRONI and will specifically look up Derriaghy CofI registers.
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Hi fmni,So nice to hear from you.
Thank you for that information.
I have a fragment of a writing saying: Thomas Partridge b.1758 that's all
children: 1. ??Partridge
2.William "
3. ?? Partridge
William Partridge b, 1785
grandchildren of Thomas: children of ?? partridge:1. John Partridge b.1810?
d. 1888
2. Denys Partridge
Denys was supposedly a land steward for the Marquis of Donegal. There must be somewhere to research this, I'm thinking.
On this page I have the marriage of John and Jane Alderdice m. 1849
So it is one of the ?? names that is the father of John,
I would most certainly be the happiest person if you find anything at PRONI about John Partridge. Maybe his siblings will be mentioned also. I look forward to your reply.
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Here is a list of Tithe payers in Co. Antrim named Partridge
Daniel Partridge Antrim, Derryaghy, Aughnasloane 1827
Henry Partridge Antrim, Derryaghy, Aughnasloane 1827
John Partridge Antrim, Derryaghy, Torneroy 1827
Thomas Partridge Antrim, Derryaghy, Torneroy 1827
I also have Alderdice tithe payers if you would like them.
RosemaryJoan
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Title:
Forename: John
Surname: Partridge
Alt Surname:
Date Of Death: 27/06/1888
Date Of Grant: 17/10/1888
Effects: Effects £45 10s.
Registry: Belfast
Full Abstract:
The Will of John Partridge late of Magheralave County Antrim Overseer on a Railway who died 27 June 1888 at same place was proved at Belfast by Henry Partridge of Derriaghy said County
I suppose you already have this
RosemaryJoan
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Hello RosemaryJoan, I don't have the 1827 tithes and I thank you for that.
Yes, I would be interested in the Alderdice tithe payers. Every entry that has been made carries a name and then when connections are finally made (hopefully) I can connect the dots.
I am appreciative of every liitle tidbit that I receive, everything is a clue. Thank you very much.
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Here you are
Edward Alderdice Antrim, Derryaghy, Milltown 1827
Edwd. Alderdice Antrim, Derryaghy, Milltown 1827
James Alderdice Antrim, Derryaghy, Lambeg 1827
Mathew Alderdice Antrim, Derryaghy, Moss Side 1827
Murry Alderdice Antrim, Derryaghy, Milltown 1827
William Alderdice Antrim, Derryaghy, Near Lambeg 1827
John's death is on the LDS pilot site. born about 1810 as you say
RosemaryJoan
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In the publication
"election of knights of the shire for the county of antrim List of the Poll showing at one view how and when each elector voted. By a member of the Independent Committee- Belfast. Printed by John Hughes, Bookseller and Stationer, Bridge Street. 1790"[/i]
Election held on 15th May 1790 and there were 4 candidates
Honourable Hercuiles Rowley Langford Lodge (Sitting Member)
Right Hon. John O'Neill Shanes Castle (Sitting Member)
James Leslie Esq. Leslie Hill (New Candidate)
Edmund A. McNughton Esq. Beardeville (New Candidate)
I am reading from a transcipt of this publication. I don't know how the franchise worked back then but the transcript concludes the long list of names saying that 3538 freeholders were polled and that the sitting members were elected.
Perhaps of interest to you is that it say that there is an Alderdice on this list of voters
Alderdice James Derriaghy and he voted for James Leslie & Edmund McNaughton
There is also a Rainey Boomer but not partridge
magheragall[
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Hello Magheragall, Was there a Bannister?? My Bannisters were from that Parish.
RosemaryJoan
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Yes
Bannister Hugh, Clogher
There must be a "clogher" in Co Antrim. The addresses given seem mostly townlands.
He voted for Rowley & O'Neill
Magheragall
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Yes, that's one of mine. Clogher was a Townland in Derriaghy Parish.
Thanks.
RosemaryJoan
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In the publication
"election of knights of the shire for the county of antrim List of the Poll showing at one view how and when each elector voted. By a member of the Independent Committee- Belfast. Printed by John Hughes, Bookseller and Stationer, Bridge Street. 1790"[/i]
Election held on 15th May 1790 and there were 4 candidates
Honourable Hercuiles Rowley Langford Lodge (Sitting Member)
Right Hon. John O'Neill Shanes Castle (Sitting Member)
James Leslie Esq. Leslie Hill (New Candidate)
Edmund A. McNughton Esq. Beardeville (New Candidate)
I am reading from a transcipt of this publication. I don't know how the franchise worked back then but the transcript concludes the long list of names saying that 3538 freeholders were polled and that the sitting members were elected.
Perhaps of interest to you is that it say that there is an Alderdice on this list of voters
Alderdice James Derriaghy and he voted for James Leslie & Edmund McNaughton
There is also a Rainey Boomer but not partridge
magheragall[
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thank you for that information, Magheragall, I'm sure that will fit in somwhere. Alderdice doesn't seem to be a common name there. I read that the Alderdice family came up with the Huguenots also. Every little bit of information, when put together, makes the story come alive.
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I am part of the Alderdice family that had the travellers rest inn and have been having trouble getting any information On Edward Alderdice. Jane Alderdice did marry John Partridge but may have been before registration was taken as I cannot find the parents of Edward I know his wife Jane Allen did in 1829 and he was a member of the masons but not much more
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I am part of the Alderdice family that had the travellers rest inn and have been having trouble getting any information On Edward Alderdice. Jane Alderdice did marry John Partridge but may have been before registration was taken as I cannot find the parents of Edward I know his wife Jane Allen did in 1829 and he was a member of the masons but not much more
Hi there!
Are you saying that Edward's wife Jane Allen died in 1829?
I have a newspaper notice of their marriage, from September 1829, and they had children born after that date.
Feel free to message me here, or e-mail me at (*) I am descended from the Partridge/Alderdice marriage from about 1849.
Thanks!
Mike
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I am part of the Alderdice family that had the travellers rest inn and have been having trouble getting any information On Edward Alderdice. Jane Alderdice did marry John Partridge but may have been before registration was taken as I cannot find the parents of Edward I know his wife Jane Allen did in 1829 and he was a member of the masons but not much more
Hi there!
Are you saying that Edward's wife Jane Allen died in 1829?
I have a newspaper notice of their marriage, from September 1829, and they had children born after that date.
Feel free to message me here, or e-mail me at (*) I am descended from the Partridge/Alderdice marriage from about 1849.
Thanks!
Mike
Hi Mike
I am a descendant of Hugh Partridge and Ellen Wylie. John Partridge was Hugh brother. Would be great to share information with you.
Regards
Gaby
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to avoid spamming and other abuses.
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I am part of the Alderdice family that had the travellers rest inn and have been having trouble getting any information On Edward Alderdice. Jane Alderdice did marry John Partridge but may have been before registration was taken as I cannot find the parents of Edward I know his wife Jane Allen did in 1829 and he was a member of the masons but not much more
Hi there!
Are you saying that Edward's wife Jane Allen died in 1829?
I have a newspaper notice of their marriage, from September 1829, and they had children born after that date.
Feel free to message me here, or e-mail me at (*) I am descended from the Partridge/Alderdice marriage from about 1849.
Thanks!
Mike
Hi Mike
I am a descendant of Hugh Partridge and Ellen Wylie. John Partridge was Hugh brother. Would be great to share information with you.
Regards
Gaby
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to avoid spamming and other abuses.
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Hi!
I will try to PM you on here, so we can talk about Partridge connections.
As per my original message on here, I have found info that leads me to believe that Edward Alderdice married one woman named Jane, who died in April 1829, and then married Jane Allen in September 1829. Too many people with the same names! :)
Mike
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New members usually need at least two posts to use PM system.
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my 3rd great grandfather was edward Alderdice from derriaghty
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New thread
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=826249.msg6899629
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My 3rd great grand father was Edward Alderdice 1797 he was a landowner and his son William ran the Miltown Inn/Travellers rest Inn
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could they have been of \french extraction? sorry cannot spell it