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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Topic started by: kaz1056 on Monday 30 November 09 21:13 GMT (UK)
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Looking for any info on Handley i have james handley b abt 1821 married agnes cairns in bury 1844 any help would be appreciated also his father was called John :D
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Hi
The only one that comes anywhere near to him in Scotland is this:
14 March 1819 James Hanley s/o Peter Hanley and Agnes White, Gorbals, Glasgow
No John as father - the family might not have been Church of Scotland or the records could be missing.
Regards
Gadget
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Thank you for looking i think it will remain a mystery for now :-\
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On 1871 census for the parish of blatchinworth, calderbrook, lancs:
james handley 51 head farm labourer born ayrshire,scotland
agnes 47 wife born ayrshire, scotland
janet daughter unmarried 17 cotton weaver born bury, lancs
david son 13 ? miller born bury, lancs
mary 8 scholar born bury
just done a quick search of the igi and found a marriage for agnes cairns and james handley in ayr on 9 may 1846
akc
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Hi John
The IGI has a marriage 9th May 1846, Ayr, Ayrshire between James Handley & Agnes Cairns. This in fact is probably the reading of the banns in the home parish of one of them, the marriage actually taking place at Bury St Mary in 1846 (according to LancashireBMD).
It might be worthwhile accessing the Ayr Parish Record on Scotlandspeople in case there is some additional useful information.
Andy
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ancestry has agnes cairns parents as: john cairns 1799 - 1881 and mary edgar 1784 - 1865
also on 1851, 1861 census living in lancs
children were;
james b 1847
duglas b 1849
john b 1850
genit b 1852
david b 1857
thomas b 1860
akc
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confused by this gentleman so unsure if I have the right person in my tree,
Born 1821 Scotland
married Agnes cairns 9/5/1846 Ayr, Scotland
married Agnes cairns 5/6/1844 buy Lancashire, any help please think his dad may be John handley but not sure
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Hi :)
The image of the marriage register entry from Parish records is included on Family Search (you now need to be signed in to view) www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9Q97-YSNT-ZV1?i=81&cc=1788853
The first entry you have in May is for one of the banns to the marriage being read. On the marriage register entry, Agnes Cairn's is showing Ayr as her residence. James himself shows as being born in Ayrshire in his 1871 census entry https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KDX3-WG5
Both bride and groom's father's name is given as John.
Is this the family here for James and Agnes? www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/2:2:3D7S-N9C
Monica
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Can't see anything so far to help with James. For Agnes, there is this possibility:
Agnes Cairns
Christening 18 Jul 1824 in KIRKMICHAEL, AYR
Birth 3 Jul 1824
Parents John Cairns and Mary Edgar
Monica
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Unfortunately, nothing new for you since your last post on this line Threads merged.
Monica
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Thank you MonicaL I just find it confusing that's why I asked again
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What in particular do you find confusing so that we can try to help with that?
Monica :)
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Seems to be a few marriages in England for him and would like to know for certain he was born in Scotland IE certificate as also have one born in England
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New thread on same topic Threads merged.
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There's a James Handley, 25, agricultural labourer, in Dalrymple, Ayrshire in 1841 - which, coincidentally, is where Agnes Cairns' parents, John Cairns and Mary Edgar are in 1841 (assuming these are Agnes' parents...). The age is a bit out, but still, the coincidence is interesting and I can't find any other Handleys in the area...
Agnes herself doesn't appear to be with her parents, although there are two possibles of the right age as servants in Maybole (which is only a couple of miles from Dalrymple).
Nothing for a birth for James Handley - or indeed any Handley - but the Ayrshire parish records are patchy at best.
The marriage entry for 9 May 1846 at Ayr for James Handley and Agnes Cairns reads:
'James Handley in the parish of Bury in England and Agnes Cairns in this parish gave in their names to be proclaimed in order for marriage and after proclamation were married accordingly.'
Ruth
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Seems to be a few marriages in England for him and would like to know for certain he was born in Scotland IE certificate as also have one born in England
What do you mean when you say "there seems to be a few marriages in England for him"?
As he was born before the start of civil registration (1837 in England, 1855 in Scotland) there is no certificate so there is no point looking for one. The best you could hope for would be a baptism record, but not everyone's baptism records have survived.
From the 1861 census, it is clear enough that he was born in Scotland, though his age is a bit hard to decipher with certainty. There is the added bonus that at least one census says Air, which could mean the county or the parish or the burgh of Ayr. (Agnes' birthplace isn't quite so clear - could it be a mangled version of Dalrymple, I wonder?)
In 1861 John said he was 48 (I think) which, if accurate, makes his year of birth 1812/1813. In 1871 I read his age as 57, not 51, which makes his year of birth 1813/1814. In 1851 he said he was 30, which implies 1820/1821 and is inconsistent with the other records.
There is a James Handley, aged 25, born in Ayrshire, an Ag Lab at Parclewan in Dalrymple, Ayrshire in the 1841 census. As adults' ages in 1841 were supposed to be rounded down to the nearest 5 years, this is consistent with a birth in 1812/1814. Could this be your James?
Agnes' age in 1851 (28), 1861 (38) and 1871 (47) implies that she was born in 1822/1824, so she might be the daughter of John Cairns and Mary Edgar. However her stated birthplace, Dalrymple, is inconsistent with her being born in Kirkmichael so there has to be a question mark over her parentage. Also, the daughter of John C and Mary Edgar would have been 26 in 1851, 36 in 1861 and 46 in 1871 on the dates of the census, so the age is not an exact fit. It is possible that someone has found a baptism that almost fits and has assumed it's the right one when there is no actual proof.
Don't believe anything you find on Ancestry or FamilySearch or anywhere else online unless it's an original document.
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PS The family on FamilySearch is both incorrect and incomplete.
James, 1847, mother Carmes
Douglas, 1849, mother Cairns
John, 1850, mother Cairnns
Janet (Genit), 1852, mother Kearns
David, 1856, mother Carnes
Thomas, 1960, mother Carnes
Mary, 1862, mother Carns
If they had been following the Scottish naming tradition I'd expect Agnes' parents to be Douglas and Janet, and James' to be James and Mary, but we know that both their fathers were named John, so where did the other names come from?
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forfarian thanks for all the help and info, think I will give up lol, but want to get it right so my not ???
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Just for information, the attached is clipped from the 1871 census. FamilySearch indexes him as aged 51. Another index says 37. I think it's 57, as I said above.