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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Herefordshire Lookup Requests => Herefordshire => England => Herefordshire Completed Look up Requests => Topic started by: Benzol on Wednesday 02 December 09 18:08 GMT (UK)
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The next time somebody visits the records office in Hertford. Would they be kind enough to get details of the marriage between Alfred Byatt and Elizabeth Skipp. They were married in Sandon on the 17th March 1877.
Unfortunately there were two Elizabeth Skipps born within 6 months of each other in Sandon.
Witnesses or Elizabeth's father's name in the Parish record might resolve my problem.
Thanks
Benzol
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Hi Benzol,
Found the 1877 marriage entry in the Sandon Register at Hertford. The fathers were Edward BYATT and James SKIPP, both labourers and the witnesses James DEARMAN and Mary Ann SKIPP.
Regards ... Peter
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Thanks for the effort Peter. Case closed even though the results disappointing for me.
Cheers
Benzol
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Hi
I beleive that Elizabeth Skipps parents were indeed James Skipp and Charlotte Rule who married in 1851 in sandon. Alfred byatts parents Edward and Mary Dearman. But it is Alfred's grandfather also an Edward that has me stumped there is a record of him marrying Sarah Head in 1803 in Throcking, Herts and then he married Mary Hollingsworth in Sandon in 1812. I cant find any baptsim record for Edward Snr in any of the parishes. He is listed in 1841 census and the box is ticked for him being born in Hertfordshire but as he died in 1850 he was not around for when the census started to list place of birth.
If you or anyone has come across any info on where he might have been born around 1776 time I would be very grateful.
Thanks
Christine
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Hi,
Could this the Elizabeth you are looking for?
Birth
Elizabeth SKIPP Jun Q 1852 Royston 3a 182
Elizabeth SKIPP
Christening: 07 APR 1852 Sandon, Hertford
Father: John SKIPP
Mother: Catherine
This could be her death,
Elizabeth SKIPPS Jun Q 1852 Royston 3a 123
Regards
Daisy
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Thanks Daisypetal,
This is my Elizabeth Skipp. Her mother Catherine "Kitty" Barnes was one of my great x2 grandfather's sisters. The Royston death looks pretty good too. It would be great if this could be confirmed in the Sandon parish burials!
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Hello Christine,
Can't help with your enquiry but have lots of Alfred Byatt info. Alfred and Elizabeth went first to Ossett cum Gawthorpe Yorkshire and ended up in Netherfield Nottinghamshire where some of their descendants lived into the 1930s at least. I'm also in contact with a Gordon Byatt who lives in Spain. He is a great grandson of Alfred and Elizabeth (I think). Do you need any of this stuff?
Benzol
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Hello Daisypetal,
Me again. I had a belated flash of inspiration. Although the Sandon burial detail would be good perhaps the Sandon 1861 census for John and Catherine Skipp and their family would show whether Elizabeth survived or not. As far as I know the family lived in Roe Green, Sandon.
Thanks once again
Benzol
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The 1861 for Roe Green records John 72, Catherine 49 and two children John 18 and Emma 13.
Will check Sandon PRs for possible death entry for Elizabeth recorded in June qtr 1852 Royston District on my next visit to HALS.
Regards ... Peter
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Many thanks for all the info posted - I have recently contacted Gordon Byatt and will be back in touch with him after the xmas break.
The Byatt family is my son in law's lines and I supposed because they lived in the same area's (Sandon) for so long the same name's keep cropping up in connection with later marriages. I have a John Skipp born 1789 who married Catherine Barnes born abt 1812. Their daughter Ann Skipp born 1845 married Henry Edward Barnes, I dont know if there is any connection between Catherine barnes and Henry barnes who became her son in law, other names that crop up loads are Hills, Kingsley, Hatchet. John Skipp born 1789 was a brother of William Skipp who was the grandfather of the Elizabeth who married Alfred Byatt.
If anyone is able to look for Edward Byatt and Mary Hollingsworth marriage info for 14 nov 1812 in sandon and see if their Edwards father or witness names are recorded I would be very grateful.
Christine
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Hi Peter,
Looks as though Daisypetal has found my girl. Think Elizabeth would have been with the family in the '61 census if she were alive. If you could find the burial that would be even better.
Thanks once again for the effort you're putting in on my behalf.
Benzol
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Hi Christine,
My main interest is the Barnes family from Sandon and a number of other North East Herts parishes.
Don't know where you're interest lies.
I mistakenly thought that the Byatt family were part of my Barnes picture but this proved to be untrue.
With regard to John Skipp. He was a widower when he married Catherine Barnes. His first wife was one Hester Barnes. Hester was the daughter of James Barnes and Mary Martin. James was the brother of William Barnes, married to Elizabeth Ward. This couple were Catherine's grandparents.
With regard to Ann Skipp and Henry Edward Barnes. They were 2nd cousins. William Barnes and Elizabeth Ward's (mentioned above) great grand children.
Bit incestuous what?
Cheers Benzol
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Benzol
My main searching is on the Byatt line as my son in law is a Byatt. But of course so many other names come up and John Skipp and his first wife Hester Barnes had a daughter Mary who married George Hills - Hills is another name that keeps coming up. Anyway George Hills and Mary Skipp had a daughter Sarah Hills who married William Byatt who was a brother of Alfred Byatt who married Elizabeth Skipp. As to incestuos relationships I have found that many of the marriages would have been between cousins and have found one that is 1st cousins marrying. Re Catherine Barnes the 2nd wife of John Skipp, have I got this right - her father was James Barnes and grandparents William Barnes and Elizabeth Ward - who was her mother. I have Henry Edward Barnes parents as Thomas and Elizabeth and if this is correct then I would love to have the grandparent info so that I can tie him back to William Barnes.
I am happy to share any info that I have albeit I havn't had time to check all the info yet but it might be easier to email direct my add is
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Hello Christine,
Catherine's parents were:
Thomas Barnes (bapt Therfield) 1778-1846 and
Mary Warren (bapt Ardeley) 1774-1846.
The couple were married in Ardeley 1798 and lived in Hyndes Spring Cottage (AKA Hindses), Shaw green nr Rushden and Wallington Herts. They were buried at St Mary the parish church of Rushden. Thomas was a shepherd like so many of the Barnes clan.
Catherine had 7 siblings, (5 older and 2 younger). My great grandfather James Barnes was the eldest and the only one not baptised in Rushden. He moved to Pirton, another Herts villiage c. 1810 and lived there until he died at the age of c. 93. He changed his name to Baines in the 1830s. If you search the Pirton database you'll find all my family through the 1800s.
I have traced my Barnes ancestors as far back as 1650 although the very early representatives lack provenance.
Hope this helps.
Benzol
ps Do yo have any details of the children of John and Catherine Skipp. I have the basics but anything you've discovered would be appreciated.
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Hi Benzol,
I searched the Sandon PRs and found the two items which appear to solve the problem.
1. Burial of Elizabeth SKIPP of Sandon 12Apr1852 age 1 week.
2. Baptism 07Apr1852 of Elizabeth d/o John and Catherine SKIPP a labourer of Sandon.
Regards ... Peter
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Thanks Peter
Good result. Case closed.
Benzol
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Hi...
My name is John Hills born 1942. I am researching my ancestors from Sandon, Herts. I visited HALS yesterday and looked at the microfische for Sandon marriages but cannot find the entry for GEORGE HILLS marriage to MARY SKIPP - 1842. The quarter was missing.
Do you have any record of this marriage as I would like to trace GEORGE'S parents. The IGI show the father as SHEM but HALS have assured me that the name is JOHN.
Hope to hear from you.
Regards
John Hills
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Hi John, and welcome to rootschat
you have accidently posted on herEfordshire, not HerT fordshire its easily done but the marriage you want can be found by searching on freebmd . registered in royston herts june quarter 1842. with the ref no you can buy the marriage cert. from the gro, which will give parents names.
regards Mazi,s oh
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Hi John,
ref Royston & Buntingford Reg Dist Jun Qtr 1842 ref 6.729
Benzol
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Hi John,
John Hills 1773-1851 and Amelia Wood 1781-1845 seem to have been the parents of George Hills of Sandon bapt 1832, born 1818. His father, a butcher, was also born Sandon. Amelia was born London. Don't know when or where they married.
Christinedobson has an Ancestry Tree "BYATT" which contains all these details and much more besides. Worth looking at. If you can't get to Ancestry ask Christine to open the tree up to you as a visitor. Christine's a very helpful genealogist.
Cheers
Benzol
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Hi Benzol,
Many thanks for the reply. I will order cert. and also look at Christine's tree.
I had a great day out in Sandon visiting my ag lab ancestors!
Regards
John (Hills)
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Hello John,
Glad to be of help.
I really must make a pilgrimage to Sandon and environs. All my father's people haled from this area of north-east Herts. If you stumble across Barnes or Warren people in your research they could well be my family.
Benzol
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Hi again Benzol
Our families all lived together in Ranters Row, Green End, Sandon!
Hills - Barnes - Geaves - Shambrook ( Foster and South too)
Kind regards,
John
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Hi Benzol,
My grandmother was Lilian Pretlove nee BAINES
Regards
John
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How about that then. My mother was also Lilian Baines
Benzol
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Hello John,
Just thought you might like to know. Just referred to some of the stuff in this Topic. The Mary Skipp who married George Hills was a very distant cousin of mine. Hester Barnes, the mother of Mary Skipp was an aunt of my great x3 Grandfather Thomas. Making Thomas Barnes and Mary Skipp first cousins.
Interestingly, after Hester Skipp died, Mary's father John Skipp married Catherine Barnes. Catherine was the daughter of Thomas and sister of my Great x2 Grandfather James Barnes AKA Baines.
Think this is probably mention earlier in this topic.
Does this help. By the way where does your Lilian Baines hale from.
Benzol
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Hi Benzol,
Many thanks again....
My Gran was Lilian BAYNES so not the right spelling. Amazing that we both have Lilian Baines/Baynes though!
She was born in 1894 and married Albert Joseph PRETLOVE.
Great tree to research that includes an interesting female - Mehetible Turner. What a name!
Thanks again
John
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Hi John,
So what's in a name.
My family name has been variously spelt as:
Barnes
Barns
Baines
Bains
Bayns
and
Baynes.
Good Hunting
Benzol
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Hi again Benzol
Our families all lived together in Ranters Row, Green End, Sandon!
Hills - Barnes - Geaves - Shambrook ( Foster and South too)
Kind regards,
John
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hi there.... I have just joined Roots,and am a complete beginner! Saw your message about families living in Ranters Row,Sandon. My ancestors also lived there.Their names were Hills,and ShambrooK, and Presland. I have made a book rather than a tree,but would welcome any contact from families of any of my ancestors.
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Hi...
How wonderful to hear from you regarding Ranters Row, Sandon.
I would very much like to read your book.
I am writing on behalf of my husband John Hills (b 1942) whose family lived in Ranters Row. John's tree is as follows:
John Hills -
Father Frederick Hills (b 1914)
Grandfather Thomas Charles Hills (b 1890) married Jessie Pegram.
Great Grandfather - John Hills (b 1849) married Mary Ann Geaves
Great Great grandfather - George Hills (b 1820) married Mary Skipp
John Hills who married Mary Ann Greaves had a sister - Sarah Hills who married William C. Byatt
We did visit Ranters Row a few years ago.
Looking forward to hearing from you.
Kind regards
Iris Hills
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hi there..I am pleased you got back to me. I am in the process of tracing down the line to find the connection between your family members and mine. I know they are related because I remember the names of those wives coming up before. Also,as its been said before...a lot of them inter-married into each others families! My own Grandparents were 1st cousins! ( Hills/Presland.} Iwill get back to you as soon as I get the connection. best wishes..LINDA
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Hi again Iris. just found the connection! George Hills 1820-1898 was my great,great Grandfather's brother. His name was Joseph Hills. 1804-1872. Have you got all the info on the family? Let me know .bye .Linda
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Hi Linda.
Fantastic news!
John and I have traced the family tree but would love any information you may have about individuals.
I have the census returns showing the Hills, Byatt, Skipp, Geaves, Head, Clarke, Bonfield and other families. John and I had a lovely visit to Sandon and we went in to a house which used to be the "Two Brewers" public house. George Hills lived there. We also went to Beckfield Farm where they lived.We were in touch with Derek and Val Byatt from Sandon. Haven't heard from them for a while.
Looking forward to hearing from you.
Kind regards
Iris and John Hills
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hi Iris..If you let me know what you have not got in relation to the Hills' ,I see if I have anything different. I Got most of my info from Ancestry .com. Do you live locally? I am in Letchworth. About 5 miles from Sandon. My cousin and I go to Sandon quite a lot. Our great grandfather Frederick Hills is buried at All Saints. I did wonder what happened to the Two Brewers pub. I guessed it wasnt there any more. My family lived in Layfield Cottages. As well as Green End ,and Mill End. linda
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Hi Linda.
Great to hear from you again.
We live in Waltham Abbey and have family in Cheshunt. Not too far from Sandon.
I am looking at the 1851 census which is interesting. I am sure you will have seen it. Joseph, Edith,James, Sarah, George, Joseph, Frederick and John Hills living at Mill End, Sandon.
I am also looking at an email from Wendy Cartey from 2005. That is about her grandfather Frederick Hills who lived and worked in Rushden.
I have George Hills 1891 - Mill End, Sandon
1881 - Mill End, Sandon
1871 - Ranter Row (living next to Geaves family)
1861 - Ranters Row living at Green End
1851- Beckfield Farm
I have Frederick Hills, Charlotte Hills, Lucy Hills Alfred Hills, Joseph Hills, Arthur Hills and Edith Hills living in Layfield Cottages, Sandon.
My John's grandad was Thomas Charles Hills. He lived at 34 Chipping Street. The Skipp family lived at 35 Chipping Street.
In 1891 Census: John,Mary,Martha,George,Joel,John, Frederick J and Thomas Charles Hills.
George Lucy and John lived at 2 Brewers , Mill End in 1881 census
Mary Ann Hills, Frederick J, Thomas Charles, Fannie and Florie and Herbert lived at 29 Chipping, Buckland, Buntingford.
My Johns Grandad's brother John Hills came to London with Joseph Clarke and John Head . They lived in Duncombe Road, Islington.
I bought my John a book on ag labs! No, I am not buying him a hand plough!
Regards
Iris Hills
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Hi Linda...
I have just noticed PRESLAND on your message.
I have been in touch with a Jackie Presland in 2010 regarding my family.
I wonder if there is a connection!
regards
Iris
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hi Iris...your info seems to be as up to date as mine, but I will check and see if there is anything in my book that would be of interest to you. Regarding the PRESLAND families..... My grandfather ,HENRY Shambrook HILLS,married LIZZIE PRESLAND from Clothall. They were 1st cousins. My grandfathers parents were Frederick and Charlotte Hills. Frederick's sister Sarah, married Edward Presland. They lived at Clothall,but earlier members of the Presland family live in Ranters row. I may be a connection to your family..you never know! They all stayed fairly close knit.If you think the lady is any connection to my family ,please let me know.
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Hi..
Yes. I have Edward ( b. 1838) and Sarah Presland (b. 1839) She came from Sandon and he was from Clothall.
I am looking at the 1881 census which had Frederick and Charles Hills and the family living at Layfield Cottages.
It's great to see your Hills - Shambrook connection as my favourite census is 1861 that has all the families living in Ranters Row.
Shambrook - Hills - Foster - Barnes - Geaves and South.
Could you let me have the Shambrook Hills details? Henry is using Shambrook as a middle name. I guess it is the maternal surname somewhere.
Is it possible to buy a copy of your book?
I had a reply from Jackie regarding Presland. She has not researched that line as her husband is not interested in his family tree.
Kind regards
Iris
Regards
Iris
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Hi Iris/John....my Grandfather Henry was given the middle name Shambrook, taken from his mother's maiden name. For many years,when I was young, I used to get confused when my mum would tell me about the family. I got so muddled as there are a fair few Hills' floating around! In regard to my book..it is not a published book, just a big book I have put together myself, instead of doing a tree. It contains all the info on the HILLS. .SHAMBROOK.and PRESLAND families. As I mentioned before, my grandma and grandad were 1st cousins. Every time I get a new bit of information, I add it to my book. I have an old copy of a photo of Charlotte and Frederick Hills. I only recently acquired it from a cousin (a Hills!),and I had never seen pictures of them before. They were not how I imagined! Strange isnt it...you picture someone in your mind,and they turn out different. You are welcome to look at my book any time,but I would have to bring it to you, as its all handwritten. Is there a way we can swap addresses on this site? let me know Linda
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Hi...
I would love to see your book and any photos.
Email me at (*)
Kindest regards
Iris
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