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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Clare => Topic started by: Ringoroses on Thursday 03 December 09 16:58 GMT (UK)
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Ok, I'm well aware this is a minefield, but I'm looking for Butler's and McNamara's in the Crusheen area. It seems the two familes were pretty much intertwined for many years.
Thanks to some very welcome help from a wonderful local researcher, so far as I know, Michael Joseph Butler was born abt. 1841, the son of Patrick Butler (1793 - 1871) of Crusheen and Bridget (). Michael had a brother, also called Patrick, (c1833-1869).
The family legend has it that the Butlers lived in somewhere called Stone Park House but, despite much research, I've been unable to locate such a place other than to see somewhere of that name listed in Griffiths.
Michael Joseph Butler married Margaret McNamara in St Cronan's in Crusheen in Jan 1872. Their first son, Patrick John, was born in Loghanabrone (AKA Caheraphuca which is also spelled Caherafooka, Caherapooka) Ennis, in 1873. Their witnesses were John Fogarty and Bridget McNamara. Soon afterward, the family moved to Liverpool, where they had two more children (Michael Joseph and Susan) before Michael senior died c1876 - 81. We think Michael was a mariner, so it's possible he died at sea. Family legend has it that the family (not sure whether it was the McNamara's or Butlers) frequently sent Margaret money after Michael died. Michael was also believed to have been picked up in Dublin by a horse and carriage and driven back to Crusheen on several occasions to visit, but I have found no evidence of this so far.
Regards,
Ann
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hi ann .
i live in crusheen not so far away from caheraphuca (google earth it) its on main road between ballyline and crusheen theres a giants grave there (dolman fallen down)
on clare library web site you can look at ordance survey map from 1842 town land and grave is on it .
on 1901 census townland is cahraphuca .
there was only one house that i know of on this townland now gone theres two lanes of new dual carriageway going through it .
as you already know butlers and mcnamara is very common name here .
i could take a stroll through local graveyard and have a nosy for patricks and bridgets grave stone if they had one . or have you looked ?
regards rob
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1911 census actually lists 5 households in Cahraphuca-
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Clare/Crusheen/Cahraphuca/
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That 1911 link was interesting, particularly the McNamara /Fogarty link. Have taken a copy just in case, so thanks for that.
Rob, yes, the house really is a mystery. I'm beginning to think the story has got lost in translation over the years or something. No, I haven't managed to get across to Ireland yet (done the googleearth thng a few times ;)) . I'm hoping to get there one day. But in the meantime, that's a very generous offer if you have the time and it isn't too much trouble. I have no idea whether they'll have a gravestone, but if what the family tell me about them is true, that they sent money over, and sent a coach and horses all the way to Dublin for them when they visited, chances are they might.
Thanks both for your interest,
Regards
Ann
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Just a bit more info from my records.
When Margaret and Michael's son, Patrick was christened, the godparents were Thady (Timothy) McNamara and Anne McNamara, possibly Margaret's siblings.
We also think we've managed to track down another brother, John, who married a Catherine O'keefe, daughter of John O'Keefe, farmer, in 1867 and gave the same address, Lochanabrone.
John and Catherine are known to have had several children, James, Mary, Michael, John, Timothy, Catherine, Thomas. Michael and Margaret were godparents to Mary and Michael. The godparents of the other children are John O'Keefe and Bridget McNamara (James); Michael (Moyo??) O'Keefe and Anne Grady (John); Thomas Sheehy and Mary McNamara (Timothy); Michael (Moyo??) and Anne O'Keefe (Catherine); Thomas O'Grady and Anne O'Halloran (Thomas).
Hope all that makes sense to someone!
Regards,
Ann
And according to Michael Butler and MargaretMcNamara's marriage certificate, Margaret's father was John McNamara, possibly a farmer/herdsman.
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hi a photo of st cronins church crusheen where your marriage took place .
kilawinna graveyard is 2-300m behind church up the road .
theres an older more ornate graveyard on the ruins of an abbey on inchicronin lake , kinda between crusheen and balyline .
do you think that your butler family were landed gentry part of the landlord butler family ?
if theres any truth to a wagon bringin him from dublin to crusheen also that money was sent from crusheen to the family it would suggest so ?
weather was too bad to look at graves weekend will bring dogs for a stroll and have a wee look ASAP
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Thank you so so much for doing that, it's very much appreciated.
do you think that your butler family were landed gentry part of the landlord butler family ?
if theres any truth to a wagon bringin him from dublin to crusheen also that money was sent from crusheen to the family it would suggest so ?
My Nan seemed to think so. She often commented that her father's side were 'well to do' - it was her who mentioned the horse and wagon actually, and that money was sent over. She's also the one who insisted the family were once in possession of a Stone Park House - which perhaps gave her the impression, at least, that her ancestors were well heeled. Sadly, she died two years ago, so I can't veryify any of these things now.
But I'm not sure that 'landed gentry' would be how I'd describe them. From the information I have it seems they were farmers and herdsmen. Perhaps that meant they owned a farmland and cattle, which undoubtedly were assets at the time. But I doubt they were of the upper classes if that's what you mean.
By the way, I'm not sure it this means anything at all to you, but I understand from research I have that, after a John MacNamara married a Catherine O'Keefe, the house may eventually have ended up in the hands of the O'keefe family. :-\
Thanks again for taking an interest in my family, it really is appreciated.
Ann
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no probs , im hoping to meet an old boy in the village whos nosy enough and old enough (nearly) to remember your lot , ill see what he has to say . im a blow in myself only livin here for 28 years ! ive met loads of mcs but butlers seem to have died out . any mention of a house owned by butlers on garlic hill ? there home is dilapadated now just behind me , google garlic and butlers youll get a photo of butler girls turn of the century .
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Yes, I came across that, on Aughty I think. But I don't think they're any relation to my lot - not to my knowledge anyway. And I'd never heard Nan speak of Garlic Hill.
If the old bloke you're thinking of happens to be called Tom McNamara, perhaps best not ask him - I think he may have come across my family before (Nan met him yonks ago when she visited the place, and a researcher spoke to him a while back on our behalf) and he may start to think we're stalking him!
Ah, 28 years and still a newbie in town no doubt ;)
Thanks again. Ann
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Hi Ann,
I just came across your post, I am interested in the John McNamara who married Catherine O'Keeffe, I know he was born in 1842, and alive for the 1911 census, do you possibly have his death date. I have a little bit of info if u want it about this family, Stonepark is a townland in Crusheen. Talk soon, Claire
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Hi Claire,
No, sorry, I don't have a date of death for him I'm afraid. If you make two more posts, I can PM you and we can share info privately. Nice to hear from you.
Ann
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thanks
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thanks
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I am a member of the family Mc Namara of Loughanabrone .The house is still there Myo Okeeffe lived there .This is not stonepark, but they were the related McNamaras. I do not think they would have sent a carriage for anyone . When they visited Dublin they went by train. Bridget McNamara my grandmother became OKeeffe in marriage. I have a lot of information on the McNamara side , The Butler bit is new to me . I think there is sime confusion in your information, There was a Landed gentry family of Butlers in Crusheen but not any marriage connection to Mc Namaras that I know of . Of course there were many other butler families, I think the carriage bit is fanciful. Niarda
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Hi. If you make two more posts, I can pm you and contact you directly to discuss further. :)
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:) I am a bit busy this week. there were at least 2 families of McNamara in Loughabrone .
on the new road which goes through both farms you can see a 2 story farm house and on the old road a cottage beside a dolmen. Jim and Mary McNamara married sometime around 1850 and had eight children ANNE ,Michael,timothy(tadhy) Rita Katie Lizzy Bridget and Mary. None married Butler.
nor do I know of the stonepark marrying any Butler so this does not fit
Nairda
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I will be away tomorrow for a few days . I forgot to say Jims wife was O'Malley . I think you might be better looking up the Butler side they are more likely to afford to send car to Dublin.
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William (lV) Thomas Butler 1838-1867 of Bun(n)ahow married a Margaret McNamara in the early 1860's. They had 5 children in quick succession. After her husbands death Margaret shut up the house and let it go to ruins. There are 2 baptisms John B in 1860 and Bridget B in 1865 to William Butler of Bunahow to Bridget McMahon. From the civil reg for Bridget, William is a "gentleman" and from Parish records she is illegitimate. I suspect that the John was my Greatgrandfather despite listing them as married and William a labourer on his NZ marriage cert in 1896. I assume he did not want to admit to being a bastard of "old english" gentry.William(V) aged 7 inherited the properties on his Greatgrandfathers (William II) death in 1871
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William(V) aged 7 inherited the properties on his Greatgrandfathers (William II) death in 1871
Wills
http://www.willcalendars.nationalarchives.ie/search/cwa/index.jsp and just put in Surname plus Clare
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Hi Ring O Roses,
I'm new to the ancestry research business but came across this topic. My great grandmother was Susan/Susannah Butler who married James Aldridge in Liverpool. I was interested in your information and have the same dates as yourself. Unfortunately Ive not been able to research further back from Michael Butler and Margaret Mc Namara due to perhaps the number of them in that part of Ireland!
If any one can provide more information as to the history of either families I would appreciate it.
Thanks
Sue
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Hi Sue, Can you just reply to this so I can respond to you privately. You have to have posted three posts I think. :) :D
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It's ok, it's let me do it. Check your inbox ;)
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It's ok, it's let me do it. Check your inbox ;)
I think I have PMd you ! I hope you received it... still learning.
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Got it! Check yours again :)