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Some Special Interests => Travelling People => Topic started by: stroudie on Saturday 05 December 09 17:44 GMT (UK)
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I wonder if anyone can help regarding the current scavenger hunt. We are looking for some apparently untraceable ancesters who appear to have connections to a family of hawkers by the name of Burnside, based around Guisborough and in Durham.
Particular interest is in the names SMITH (Mary b c1831 and Joseph b c 1857). BRADLEY, BURNSIDE or BURNSIDES and LEATHER.
Any help regarding explanation of name usage and changes is appreciated.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=422660.new#new
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Hi Stoudie,
I have about a dozen Burnside's in my tree all from the Guisborough and Durham areas.
Could you be a little more specific on who you would like to know about (ref the Burnsides) and I can look to see if I have any info which may help. :)
Jane.
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Hi Jane
Great to hear from you. Now, this is a little complicated - have a look at the scavenger hunt link is you can.
I am really trying to establish the origins of a Mary or Mary Ann Smith who was probably born in Guisborough around 1831. Also her son Joseph Smith b Guisborough c1857. Neither of them are traceable on the usual records and because of later links with the Burnside family, I suspect that Mary may have started life as Mary Burnside b Guis 1831, in the family below. She might also have been known as Mary Bradley.
She later became Grout (1868) and is then easily traceable. Ambrose and Isabella Burnside were witnesses to her marriage with Charles Grout in Durham.
Any information about this family or name links or details of who were the witnesses to the marriage of Ambrose and Isabella, might provide a clue; Ambrose Burnsides married Isabella Gordon Jan-Mar 1849 Easington Durham GRO Ref: 114/24
Children of Edward and Sarah Burnside
Edward b 1824 Aycliffe d 1847 Guis
Jonas b 1826 Aycliffe Iron miner
Ambrose b 1829 Deighton, Northallerton occ hawker m Isabella Gordon b 1824
Mary b 1831 Guis
Benjamin b 1834 Guis Pottery hawker
John b 1837 Guis d Easington Lane 1914 Wire screen hawker
Sarah b 1840 Guis
Isabella b 183 Guis
Joseph b 1846 Guis
looking forward to hearing from you.
Julie
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Hi Julie,
Well I seem to have the same info as you, and I can see why you think that Mary Burnside and Mary Smith are the same person.
I'm afraid I do not have the original marriage cert' for Ambrose Burnside and Isabella Gordon, (died 28/11/1898 Airdrie), so I'm no help there :(.
Did you know that Isabella went on to marry William Cunningham brn abt 1825 in Oldham, died 4/5/1900 in Airdrie
He was the widower of (I think, but have to confirm the link) her sister Margaret Gordon brn abt 1825 in Oldham. William and Margaret were my 2nd G/Grandparents.
I'm sorry I could not be of more help, but sometimes I've found, looking for other people on the census will bring up the person you are really interested in.
Hope someone out there has the info you need.
Jane
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Hi Jane
Thank you for this information. No I didn't know about Isabella's 2nd marriage. Do you know when this took place, as the death details for Ambrose Burnside may be useful.
Yes, it is a good tip to search for others
Julie
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Hi Julie, Fred here, sorry about the dates of Edward/Sarah`s children. According to 51 census Mary would be b.1834, another couple of them are slightly out. Between 1851-1861 the family seperated as:-
Edward 1824 died1847; Jonas stayed Gu. stone miner;Ambrose 1829to Durham C.
Mary1834 ???;Benjamin1836(my 3xgtg/dad)to Durham then Chester le st. John1839 toHaswell then Easington Lane. Sarah1840 to Dur C. Isabella1843
????;Joseph1848 to Dur C. and Belmont.
I wonder if maybe Isabella 1843 could help. i will try and find her.
Note that the family and others like, lived in the St Giles dist. to the east of the city around the Sunderland rd. Gilesgate,Belmont, Dragonsville, Old Sherburn, and Carville are all a stones throw from each other.
Fred.
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Hi Fred
Thanks for your input. I have just searched for Isabella and can't find her.
Yes, re St Giles area Mary and Charles Grout were married in Belmont in Aug 1869 with Ambrose & Isabella as witnesses. I don't know why they were there though. In Aug 1868 they had a child born in Brotton nr Guisborough and Charles was an ironstone miner and in 1871 they were in Brotton. Charles again ironstone miner.
Julie
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Hi Julie,
I'm afraid I don't know the date of Ambrose Burnsides death. I looked up the BMD on An***** and found an entry for a Ambrose Burnside: Age 60, 1st Quarter 1884, Vol 10a, Page 134.
But....Isabella and William got together between 1871 and 1881, Isabella was living with Ambrose and their children in Durham in '71, and living with William Cunningham at Vinegar Hill, Glasgow, in '81.
I think I will have a quick look at the 1881 census for Ambrose to see if he was still alive then, I've just assumed that he was dead....you know what assume does in this game ;).
I have the original death cert's for William and Isabella and they both mention their prev' spouses, but I could not find a marriage for them in SP, so I think they married in England.
This is side tracking from your original question, but you never know what helps.
I'll get back to you if I find anything more.
Jane.
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Hi Julie,
Disregard all ref to William Cunningham.
I've just found Isabella Burnsides with her children in 1881, living at 36 Bargate St, Linthorpe, Middlesborough, York's.
She is said to be a widow, so now know that the 1884 death entry is not our Ambrose.
I'm so sorry for mis-directing you, but in a way I am grateful to you too...it made me check my facts (or fiction) and I will now correct my tree :'(.
I'm just hoping that whoever reads this thread will read it all the way through, so they know that the info I have put on is incorrect.
Yours Jane.
WARNING INCORRECT INFO ON PREVIOUS POSTS REGARDING WILLIAM CUNNINGHAM
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Hi Jane
I'm a bit confused. Is your Isabella who 'married' William, a different person to the one married to Ambrose Burnside?
I looked on the 1881 census and there is an Ambrose Burnside aged 57 in Bishop Auckland. Given as unmarried, trader of small wares b Durham city. He is a visitor in a house of multiple occupation, so probably a lodging house.
You never know, establishing what became of Ambrose and Isabella, may provide a clue.
Thanks for your help
Juie
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Hi Jane We Meet Again,
How`s your Cunninghams, oops!
Last Conversation was Me "Isabella was in Linthorpe with her family in1881 census"
You" No! They were in Vinegar Hill"
Result i heard no more.
How about, Was she in both, if the census were at different times!!!
Her son Ambrose 1860 got married in Billingham that year, before going back to Belmont.
Kind regards Fred
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Hi All,
An old contact related to Isabella Burnside nee Gordon reckoned the Ambrose 1881 B/A was indeed the late Ambrose. I have just found, thanks to Gary that there was a Ann 1822 Sadberge dau. of Edward and Sarah. i have her marrying Alexander Gordon, i believe Isabellas brother.
i will check this out.
Fred
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Hi Fred,
On Isabellas death certificate her father was Alexander,so I imagine one of her brothers would be Alexander,
Regards Margaret
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1861 census Gilesgate, Durham St Giles
Allick Gordon 38 tinner & brazier b gateshead
Ann wife 38 b sudbury
Ann dau 18 b Guisbro
Margaret dau 16 b Durham west Auckland
Dinah dau 10 b darlington
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Hi All,
I think I've stirred up a hornets nest :-[
I don't think Isabella married to William Cunningham is the same as Isabella that was married to Ambrose Burnside with children, Elizabeth '54, Sarah '59, Ambrose '60 and Edward 65.
Ambrose and Isabella with children where in Durham in '71 and Isabella with children in Middlesborough in '81. So it is unlikely that she is the same Isabella that is in Glasgow in '81 with William.
Unless.....you are right Fred....a bit close though...sorry I didn't get back to you, I'll look up the thread and see what I was doing, middle age and all that, memory like a goldfish.
I saw the entry for Ambrose you mentioned Julie, will follow him up to see if there is any connection. I'm now looking for any other Ambrose and Isabella combinations to see if they fit with William's Isabella, no luck so far so will look up tomorrow with fresh eyes ::)
Jane
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Hello all,
I've been on the other thread re Mary Smith so please forgive any errors and bear with me ;)
As you know we are looking for Mary/Smith/ possibly Burnside whose witnesses at marriage were Ambrose and Isabella Burnside(s) who are assumed to be the ones who married in 1849 (Gordon). I am not disputing this by the way.
However, there is also a marriage in 1842 for an Ambrose Burnsides in Stockton - does anyone know who this is and who he married?
Apologies in advance if he is already mentioned and I have overlooked him.
heywood
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Hello Heywood
See also this thread
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,411479.60.html
There appear to be 2 Ambrose Burnsides of very similar age,
The whole Burnside thing is quite confusing!
Julie
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I thought I'd seen another thread but couldn't see it last night ::) will check.
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I knew I had seen two in the censuses and looked at 1851 -couldn't see him.
Your Ambrose is Abraham in 1851 living with the Gordons.
Ambrose b 1821 appears in 1861 with wife Alice and that is the other marriage of 1849.
It does not explain the 1842 marriage but maybe it is this Ambrose who perhaps is widowed during the intervening years. I was just trying to place him- no matter.
heywood
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hi all,
This one i didnt have!!
Ambrose = Elizabeth Mackerline 1842 Stockton reg.
My hope went sky high, as one of the possibles on the free BMD was a Mary Smith. but she married 1842 Nathaniel Butterwick. Got to find out more on Ambrose for my Ambrose list, could be the one from Potto!
Fred
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Thanks Fred- although it doesn't help the search for Mary Smith - it has helped you. :D
good luck
heywood
I did look for him later- there is a death for an Elizabeth Burnside 1844 Darlington, so I did wonder if Ambrose then went on to marry Alice Peers in Northallerton :-\
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Our Posts crossed Heywood. I have Ambrose/Alice as my Ambrose b.shincliffe 1822 son of Ambrose/Eliz Watson married Alice Pierce1849 Northallerton. Just read your follow up. I believe the Eliz d1844 Darlington was wife of Ambrose1778
Ambrose /Alice are in Staindrop 1871. in 1881 Ambrose is widower and dies 1884
Acouple of weeks ago i found a newspaper article "Found drowned at Staindrop"
he was seen Saturday night walking home and found next morning drowned in the Beck The moral of this story is "Take your water with the whiskey, not after."
Fred
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Hi Fred,
so that earlier marriage may be a different Ambrose! I'm not getting involved with these (I plead sanity - well still got a bit ;))
good luck
heywood
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Hi Julie
Just a quick question. Can you place Jonas 1825 Aycliffe as the son of the Edward & Sarah in Guisbourgh?.
Only I have some dates that don't add up.
Gary
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Hi Gary
I'm afraid I haven't personally researched Burnsides, as I haven't yet established that I belong to them. My list of children of Edward and Sarah came from Fred, I am presently just trying to find any lead that might prove Mary Smith is Mary Burnside. I have to confess a degree of confusion about Burnside relationships and in that way, Mary's confused details are similar!
Julie
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Hi Julie
Sorry about that. It was just the first time I had seen Jonas linked with Edward & Sarah who resided at Guisborough. There are at least 2 Edward & Sarah's breeding around that time. I was trying to sort the wheat from chaff. I think I have nearly every Burnside in the world execpt the one I started looking for, my GGG Grandfather >:(. I hope to sort it before I end up in Broadmoor. ;D.
Gary
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Hi Gary
Well on that basis I am not even going to try and sort out Burnsides. If however, you come across any information about Mary Burnside b c 1834 dau of Edward and Sarah, i would be delighted to know.
Meanwhile I am going to look at the whereabouts of the Burnside siblings and the Gordons who seem to be closely internarried to the Burnside family, to see if any clues emerge.
Regardsds
Julie
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Thanks for that Julie
I know you have your work cut out trying to sort your own lot out. I will certainly let you know if I turn anything up.
Gary
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Gary,
Pity about the Blakes, but saw your querie.
Jonas is in B/T son of Edward and Sarah Burnside Aycliffe-Potter Dec10 1826
I already had this before B/T. Somewhere!
Fred
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Hi all
Not sure if this shines a light on the Ambrose who married Alice peers. 1851 census Piece: 2324; Folio: 653; Page: 46 has Alice Burnside residing with Parker & Matilda Charlton in dewsbury, Alice is given as a sister in law.
Unfortunatley I cant find a marriage for Parker & Matilda.
Added: Re the Ambrose marriage to Elizabeth Mackerline in Stockton in 1842, I think this Ambrose was a brother to Charity. He was baptised 1821 at West Auckland to John & Jane. It would appear Charity also marries in Stockton in 1839.
Gary
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Hi Gary,
Sorry i`m late replying, got a load on.
I have Ambrose 1822 Shincliffe as= Alice. re. 1881census.He is my 3xgtgran Elizabeth1808`s brother.
I never looked up Alices people.
I also didnt think i had anything on Ambrose1821, but i have, from DROL
St. Helens B/A 11aug1821 of West Auckland son of John(Potter) and Jane. but also i have (mar1823)Neddy (Edward) Burnside of W/A 4th son!!!! of Jand J so theres more, besides Charity who dosent ring any bells.( although i always thought the Dingles (Emmerdale were based on the Burnsides.Ha Ha.
St Helens has been taken off BT. It seems every thing i work on onBT e.g. St Giles Durham C is taken off.
Thanks for info Fred
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Hi Fred
Strange you can't get the BT for Auckland St Helens I can still access it.
I think I have 3 of the 4 sons to John & Jane
John 1817 Sadberge , He appears to have died 1826 @ St Helens aged 6
Ambrose 1821 St Helens & Neddy 1823 St Helens . Looks like Jane died 1824 also @ St Helens. I have 2 Thomas 1806 & 1808 both baptised @ Richmond near Leyburn with a father as John. There is quite a gap from these to John in Sadberge but they could have had few daughters in quick succession.
Charity was baptised 1819 @ Sadberge. All from the BT's
Gary
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St Helens has been taken off BT.
As Gary says, it is definitely still there. Page 1 only is unavailable. Go to the next page and you will find it is all still there!
Exactly the same applies to Durham St Giles - only page 1 is missing.
Jennifer
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Thanks Gary and Jennifer,
I shall give BTs another go. Going back a bit Gary. Where did you get 1825 from for Jonahs birth. I have 1826 for bap Aycliffe from BT
Back (or should i say forward) to John and Jane, are we talking about John 1777 son of Benjamin marrying Jane Rickaby 09dec1805 Hurworth. I see we also have a John Burnside =Jane Pitman1811 York, but that shouldnt interfere.
I really have no need of this line, but like everyone else i am intrigued by them all. I have just been updating the line from John1770( imake him the third john in that line. B/A to Newbottle and Sunderland. there are still Burnsides around Houghton and Sunderland, and in between. The Mary we have been looking for had bros Ambrose, Benjamin and Joseph going to Durham C. Benjamin then went to Newbottle(two Potteries then) then to Chester le st.
Ambroses and Josephs families Belmont area(you get three villages for one here) Belmont, Boxmoor, and Carville.
Brother John went to Haswell then Easlngton Lane. I actually went in his son Benjamins house opposite Elemore Colliery.That was a laugh
Thanks again Fred
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Hi Fred
Thanks for the Jonas date, it is indeed 1826. I have checked my database and for reasons better known to itself it has taken to sorting dates in a strange way. I will install a back up and hope it sorts it. Apologies for that.
On the John and Jane marriage I would say it is indeed Jane Ricaby the baptism for Charity seem to bear this out.
The only male Burnside I know for sure is mine is the elusive Joseph b circa 1826 in cockerton. The only clue I have for his branch is via his uncle Robert of Brafferton and this is the line I have been trying to follow, note the trying. These Burnsides are very trying ::). The Mary Smith saga is very confusing the best I could come up with was a Mary Smith born c 1827 in Everingham ( near york) with a father as John, so I don't know if this a dead end.
Gary
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The names of witnesses to the marriage of Ambrose Burnside and Isabella Gordon have now been supplied on a lookup thread. However, they give no clues, one likely to be the parish clerk and the other Robert Forbes has no apparent link.
I wonder if the marriage of John Burnside to Annas Forest 1857 Houghton-le-Spring, Durham, could shed any more light.
Does anyone have details of witnesses or the facility to look up?
I have started to try and track through the census records re Burnsides. I can't find Mary or parents Edward and sarah in 1841. However in the course of looking, I came across an interesting page;
1841, Aycliff, Durham. This is the Edward Burnside married to Elizabeth, next door are Hannebal and John Swales. I note JaneyJ you list travellers called Swales as an interest. Are they connected to Burnsides?
Also John Burnside above has child listed in 1861 as Harmeble - presumably Hannibal.
Then on the same page is a 10 yr old Mary Smith b Durham, in the household of William Coulthard 20 ag lab and wife Elizabeth 20 and baby son John.
Interesting!
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Hi Stroudie,
I will just go through your letter quickly. Pity about the witnesses being duff.
I will try and find something on Mary bro`s Johns marriage to Annes Forrest1857.
(Annes Father was Hannibal Forrest and her mother was Lavinia BURNSIDE!!!!
She is from Thomas through to John 1770 B/A and Euphemia(var) Ulvan.
My reckoning that is!!!!!
Hannebal(Hannibal) died young i need to catch up on this bit as i havnt got them in Aycliff.
You may find Mary in connection with one of her siblings or info on them.
the two Swales next door to Edward1841census are nearly certain to be connected to the Burnsides. i have notes somewhere. I am related to Robert Swales through his dau Eliz. married to Michael Mcdonald.
Edwards dau. Christiana later becomes Potts they are also in that street1841.
Mary is noted !!
Fred
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Thanks Fred
Oh dear, they are all so intermarried, I haven't a hope of working it out!!
Julie
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Hi Stoudie,
I don't have any marriages between Swales and Burnsides, but I do have marriages between the Gordon's and Swales and marriages between the Gordon's and Burnside(s)'s.
They all travelled in the same areas and I'm sure they must have been associated as the intermarriages show they were all closely related.
I've also got Swales and Forrest marrying, Forrest and Hartely marrying, Forrest and Cunningham marrying, all of who also married Gordon's, Stewart's and Young's.
Like you I find sorting them all out a nightmare, the naming tradition should make it easier, but not so with the gypsy side of my family :( my mistake with the Burnside/Cunningham saga being a case in point. :-[
Jane.
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Hi Fred
I found John and Janes first born son, Benjamin, born 1810 in Seamer? and baptised at Hurworth in 1811.
The entry is in the BT indexed as Harworth image 49.
Gary
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Gary,
I felt that this John Married to Jane was likely John b.1777 Blackwell
son of Benjamin and Ann, now you have come up with this eldest son, Benjamin, i am nearly positive it is him. Any siblings Ann?
Fred
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Hi Stroudie,
Just an update on marriages between Swales and Burnsides.
I knew I had something somewhere and a search through my census report, (the ones you keep..just in case...) I found the following.
Danby, Yorks Ref: RG 9/3656 1861
William SWALES: Head, Marr, age 30, Hawker, Beadle (?) Yorks
Mary Ann SWALES: Wife, Marr, age 29, b: Kirbymoorside,Yorks
Willaim SWALES: Son, age 3, Yorks
Isabella SWALES: Daug, age 2, b: South Stockton, Yorks
Henry SWALES: Son, age 1, b:Kirbymoorside, Yorks
William BURNSIDES: Father-in-Law, marr, age 60, Hawker, b: Sunderland, Co Durham
Elizabeth BURNSIDES: Mother-in-Law, marr, age 55, Hawker, b: Hutton Rudby(?), Yorks
Isabella BURNSIDES: Sister-in-Law, Unmarr, age 27, Hawker, b: Kirbymoorside, Yorks.
Sarah BURNSIDES: Niece, age 8, b: Kirbymoorside, Yorks
William BURNSIDES: Brother-in-Law, Marr, age 34, Hawker, b: Kirbymoorside.
Elizabeth BURNSIDES: Sister-in-Law, Marr, age 33, Hawker, b: Brompton (?) Yorks
Elizabeth PALMER; Visitor, Unmarr, age 18, Hawker, b: Kirbymoorside.
I've not been able to link any of these to my lot yet, but hope they are useful to someone else.
Yours Jane.
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hi i have burnsides on 1861 cesus travelling with william and martha cunningham.brampton bierlow yorks.old moor in tents.william age 43 b 1818.mary a 44 b1817. susanna 19 b1842. violet 18 b1843. magalana 16 b1845. isabella 14 b 1847. richard 12 b 1849. jane 7 b 1854. mary 5 b 1856. anne 3 b 1858. william 1 b 1860. hope this will help.
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i also have photo of issacc and ada francis ( ne lee) . son oliver married isobella burnside. taken approx 1920 stockton portrack. do not know issobellas details but son tony died couple of years ago . he was in his sixties.
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Fred
The entry for marriage of John & Jane does not yield any useful information. I would agree that this John is highly likely to be the one born at blackwell in 1777 to Benjamin. No sign of an Ann as yet.
Hi Mikizz welcome to RootsChat. Thanks for the information. It would appear that Burnside & Cunningham inter marry.
Gary
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Hi Mikizz,
Do you have anything on a Prudence dau of( i think) either John Cunningham and Hannah b.1843 nee Lindsley marr.Yarm1861, or their dau, Hannah.
STROUDIE Have details of Benjamin(Marys bro.) marriage to Dinah Lindsley
29jun1857 par. ch.Sedgefield for elimination purposes.
Witnesses James P Wilson and John Usher Gladstone.
Still waiting for info on John Burnside=Annas Forrest witnesses.
Maybe Jonas marriage will yield something.
Fred
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hi all,
i have a prudence c1821. also hannibal swales ( male) c 1819. and susan c 1819.also have john wilson b1795 who married grace cunningham b1793. cannot find any burnside and cunningham marraiges but have just started research. i am cunningham. my g grandad joe cunningham b c 1904 married in 1923 violet edeson b c 1902.you will find edesons also married into same familys. charles edeson c 1835 married mary ann swales c 1846 had daughter mary ann c1867 son frank c 1871. jeremiah swales.
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Hi Mikizz
There is a marriage for a William Burnside & Elizabeth Cunningham in 1820 in Pickering, Yorkshire. I think this may be the William & Elizabeth that appear in Kirby Moorside. Only problem is that this William consistently gives his birthplace as Sunderland??
Gary
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hi all,
william may have been born in sunderland .i think that is were burnsides were from.i can see from my tree cunningham/edeson familys spent lots of time in york pickering areas.who was elizebeths parents . my great grandmother violet was daughter of jeremiah edeson and ann stornach married 1902. think jeremiahs parents were charles edeson b 1837 and mary ann swales b 1845 it is very difficult as there are lots with same names through familys. i have found prudence on 1881 census. adress 3 north street falsgrave. hannibal swales age 60 b 1821 kirby moor side. wife prunence 60 b 1821 falsgrave yorkshire . son jeremiah 38 single b 1843 kirbymoorside. daughter esther 24 single b1857 falsgrave.believe hannibal was son of james and esther swales. and brother of jeremiah swales.b 1815. i hope i have not confused you more.
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Hi Mikizz
I think Elizabeth's parents are James & Mabel (via the IGI). I have not researched the Cunningham line so really don't know much about them. The information may be useful even if it is only to rule them out.
Added: There is also a marriage for a Mark Burnside & Mabel Cunningham in 1846 in Easingwold. She appears to be with William & Elizabeth in Kirby Moorside in 1851 as a niece. IGI shows her parents as Henry & Betsy. A quick check for a marriage of Henry & Betsy brings up Henry Cunningham & Elizabeth Swales married in 1826 in New Malton.
Gary
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Just to chuck a late one into the mix - very intriguing to see the Forrest connection.
Thomas Gray b.abt 1880 Stickney/East Keal, Lincs, my great great uncle, married Ann "Nan" Forrest in 1906. They settled in Boston Lincs, like most of my Gray/Smith travelling ancestors.
Ann "Nan" Gray (nee Forrest) died in 1978 and is buried in Boston Cem.
My Grays do link to the Rhodes, Cunninghams, Swales etc ....
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John Cunningham c1770 had at least 2 children that I know of Grace c1793 who married John Wilson c1792 and Richard c1790-c1861 who married Mary Miller.
Grace and John had at least 3 children Grace c1814, Elizabeth c1817 and Joseph c1831 Joseph married Mabel Edeson c1834.
Richard and Mary had many children Magdalene c1810, Richard c1812 (who married Mary Swales c1820), Hannah c1819 (married Richard Arnold c1816), Grace c1821 (who married George Miller c1824) Ann and Jane and William Cunningham c1824 who married Martha Jackson c1834.
William and Martha had 5 children Mary 1856, William 1862, Peter 1862, John 1864 and Richard 1858.
Richard married Elizabeth Morrison 1861 and they had 7 children William 1878 who married Janey Maguire 1881. Richard 1889, Martha 1880, Mary 1882, Jane 1886, John 1891 and Joseph 1884.
Joseph married Nancy/Annie Maguire 1886 (Janey's sister). They had three children Joseph1904, John 1908 and Martha 1911. Joseph was killed in WW1 and Nancy had two other children Margaret 1920 (married Thomas Ellis c1918) and Eileen 1923 (Married John Ingham 1920).
Joseph who was born in 1904 was my grandfather, his wife was Violet Edeson born 1908. Her parents were Jeremiah 1862 or 69 and Annie Stanack/Stronach. They had several other children Mary 1890 (married John Kennedyc1880), Jeremiah 1894 (married Violet Hall c1894), Lily 1896 (married name McGowan), Charles 1897, Frank 1899, Annie1897 (married Arthur Hall), Joseph 1905 and William 1911.
Jeremiah 1862/69 was the son of Charles Edeson c1835 and Mary Ann Swales c1845. Their other children were Mary 1867 and Frank 1871.
Charles' parents were John Edeson c1810 and Hannah c1810. Charles had a sister Mabel c1834 who married John Wilson (John was son of Grace Cunningham 1793 and John Wilson 1792).
Mary Ann Swales c1845 was the daughter of Jeremiah Swales c1815 and Elizabeth Wilson c1817. She was one of 10 children.
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Hello and happy New Year to everyone
Thank you for all the continuing information, Thanks Fred for the marriage witnesses for Benjamin and Diana to exclude.
I am currently trawling census records for the siblings of Mary Burnside to build up a picture and looking at families living close by.
I haven't yet found anything new. Some of the families seem remarkably stable for 'travelers'.
I noted a house on a census called a tramp lodging house, which was interesting as Mary Grout ran a lodging house in Guisborough from 1891 or earlier. Anecdotaly, this has been described as a tramp lodging house. I feel this perhaps relates to her having a knowledge of the traveling life.
Has anyone come across the name Bradley in relation to traveler families? The 1861 census for Guisborough has a Mary Bradley wife of James, with 4 yr old son Joseph Bradley, with details that could match 'our Mary'. Mary & Joseph are not found in 1871 or on death records and James Bradley is found in a lodging house in Muggleswick Durham. It's difficult to read his marital status, but in 1881 he is a boarder in Skelton and appears to be unmarried.
It seems that sorting out the links between these traveling families is useful to a number of people and hopefully might in the end solve my problem.
So thanks again.
Julie
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Hi Fred,
:-[ On Isabellas death certificate her father was Alexander,so I imagine one of her brothers would be Alexander,
Regards Margaret
Sorry Magpie28, i didnt thank you for above. I see you also have Swales,Cunningham,Forrest, and Gordon. Anything in the Belmont-Newbottle- Easington Lane circle.
Fred :-[
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Hello Fred,
Thanks for your message. Alexander Gordon's wife was Isabella Robinson[you probably know that].If you google[ Antiquities of Sunderland and vicinity Hannibal Forrest] page 139 gives a short passage about our family names and the Newbottle potteries.
Regards Margaret
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:D Thanks Margaret, i got as far as a 92 page book, but will keep trying.
Stroudie!!!
I have another blank for you regarding Ambrose = Isabella marriage. I have had to go through a Cunningham contact to his Burnside contact who had the marriage cert, but no scanner.
witness who signed was a Dorothy June Emmerson, the other was William possibly Henderson (unclear).
Fred.
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Sorry all!!!! Absolute Muck up on my previous posting.
PLEASE READ JOHN BURNSIDE= ANNAS FORREST instead of Ambrose and Isabella
Fred
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Hi Fred,
Sorry page 39,
Margaret
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Does anyone know of any other Edeson's. The name has various spellings over the years. It is spelt Eatson on Charles and Mary Ann Swales marriage certificate. I have had some difficulty locating them because of the spelling.
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hi i have relatives called burnside,and are travellers they are a old traveller famliy. try looking at skipton yorks, darlington,and lancashire. lanc opc is a very good site. if you look there are lots on them.
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Thanks Fred for the marriage witnesses for John & Annas. Do you know where they were married?
Also does anyone know what became of daughters of Edward and Sarah Burnside:
Sarah b Guisborough 1840/41 and Isabella b Guisborough c1844?
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Hi,
Durham Records Office has a wonderful display of photos of Roma and travelling people at county hall, with lots of info. They may also be able to help,
Roofy
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Hi All,
Tracybsmith, Would John Emerson c1824 be one of your Edesons?
I have just found him with William Burnside and fam. on 1841 census.Hopper st. B/W/Mouth. Would he be related to Williams wife. i cant find out who she is except its Mary Ann something.( bound to be one of the names that keeps coming up here.)
Stroudie,
John and Annes were married in St Nicholas Church Hetton le Hole 24aug1857
Was burnt down about 4years ago. It looks like Jonas Burnside will be your last chance of finding Mary as a witness. I have no marriages for Sarah, Isabelle, or Mary, but am looking. Fred
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Thanks Fred, Yes Jonas' marriage. Does anyone have any information?;
Jonas Burnside b c1826 m Elizabeth b Guisborough c 1830. Interestingly, Jonas has bee the easiest family member to track. He appears to have led a more conventional life, remaining in Guisborough and becoming an iron miner before emigrating to USA n the 1880s.
Roofy- Is the Durham display, permanent? I would love to see it, but won't be in the NE for any length of time in the near future, but I am nipping up for a weekend in March and would make the effort to go if it was on for a limited time.
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Hi Preshous
Started going through the IGI batches A-Z Yorks.for Burnsides (must have finally lost it).
I found Elisabeth(sic) Burnside bp 22Jan 1813 Barningham f.John m. Jane. This pair seemed to go where no other Burnside had gone before !!
I`ve found nothing on your Joseph 1826 so far. Have you got the rest of the face to go with that eye, its hypnotic !! (but i do`nt mind.!! Fred
Hi Stroudie,
I have Jonas Burnside=Elizabeth Mary Hutchinson at Billingham 8sep1846
Someone disputed this some time ago. Fred
ihave
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Hi Stroudie
Have been out of the picture for a while. I wonder if it's worth while getting the marriage certificate for the Jonas who married Elizabeth in Billingham 1846. The witnesses may (or may not!) help the situation!
Sorry if I've missed the plot - but has anyone looked at BTs for the Burnsides?
Ceeoh
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Hi Fred
I did find the Elisabeth bp 1813 in Barningham and have chalked her down to John & Jane (nee Rickaby).
As for my Joseph I have, I believe, thanks to Dan at this link http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,411479.90.html , found him. Another opinion would be more than welcome.
As for the blinking eye I would love to see the rest of the face, or even the rest of the person for that matter ;D
Gary
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Hi everyne
I am trying to find out who the parents of William Burnsides were. He was born abt 1830 Aycliffe Durham. Can't find this on IGI. 1851 I have:
Francis Swales 67, Tinner Aycliffe Durham
William Burnsides, 21, Pot Setter or seller, Aycliffe Durham, Grandson
William Allinson (Allison), 18, Pott Seller, Kirkby Moorside, Nephew
Francis Swales daughter Elizabeth bn 1802 Easingwold married Edward Burnsides in 1824 Hutton Rudby, I have Edward and Elizabeth in various census but never a son William shown with them.
Help please.
Val
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Hi Val,
I have William bap. Aycliffe 21june 1829 son of Edward and Elizabeth
occ. Potter liv Aycliffe. Bishops Trans.Have you got Thomas 17dec 1843 Aycliffe and Edward 26sep1847 aycliffe. Why William was not on 1841, i dont know but will look for him. I was interested in william Allison, as i have a Joseph Burnside =Hannah Allison from Cockfield. Do you know if Francis Swales was related to my Robert Swales.
Regards Fred
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Hi Fred,
Thanks so much for the info. I have children -
Christiana abt 1826 - Kirkby Moorside
Mary abt 1831 Aycliffe
James abt 1833 "
Francis abt 1835 "
Ambrose abt 1840 "
Thomas abt 1844
Edward abt 1846
Ann abt 1839
Margaret abt 1848
Give me some info on your Robert Swales.
I am trying to find out who Christiana Stephenson was who married Francis Swales.
Thanks Val :) :)
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Hi Val,
Please understand that this is not my line, but i sorted them out so i could have a clearer picture. (sorting the wheat from the chaff, so to speak.)
I have nothing on Margaret c1848,where was she from.
Here are the others dates, all aycliffe
Mary25sep1831 says Potter now labourer.
James26apr1835; Francis22aug1830; Ambrose16mar1841;
Thomas17dec1843; Edward26sep1847; Ann17sep1838: Railwayman.
Also have this Aycliffe Francis son of Francis and Christiana Swales occ. potter
Hannibal son of " " "
Both baps on 15 may1814
My Robert Swales bap09oct1812 Whitby, but found siblings at Aycliffe, i think parents are John and Mary
Christiana Stephenson rings a bell. It may have been on this site, or when i was trying to find a Christiana to link up with William Lindsley Durham City.
I am having trouble with this writing tablet. it keeps dropping out of sight, so will sign off. Fred.
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Hi Fred,
Had a look at your Robert Swales born 1812 in Whitby son of John Swales and Mary. No other children for them in Whitby or a marriage. If you already have siblings in Aycliffe, likely to be John Swales and Mary Ross. Don't know much about them except possibly John is brother of Francis.
I traced Robert through the census with wife Mahala. Let me know if you don't have this info.
Have found my Christiana Stephenson daughter of Alexander Stephenson and Elizabeth Burnsides of Durham.
Val
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Hi Val,
Thanks for looking at Rbt Swales for me. I have about the same, but didnt realise Mary was a Ross(another one). There were about 3 Swales brothers around Newbottle area, and were supposed to be dominant. Robert being one and i think Hannibal, being another, must get it together.
Got as far as Christianas marriage to Francis Swales,glad you got other info. Could you give me the details as i have several Elizabeth Burnsides, inc. my gtgtgt gran .
Looking for Christiana Stephenson set me looking again forChristiana Swales
marriage to my William Lindsley, and this time found it. = William Quidsley 20mar1851. Kirkby Stephen,but also found same church Christiana Swale = joseph Norman 20mar1781.
It was fruitful day for me as Christiana died 1861 Darlington, and William remarried my Sarah Burnsides,(and i had never found her marriage before)
Now need to find Christianas birth details c 1830,any ideas.
Did you have a James Smith, Loftus living around 1883.
Fred
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Hi Fred.
Sorry haven't come across any Smiths as yet.
About my Stephensons. I have been trying for some time to put them together. I have Elizabeth Stephenson bn Stockton 1851 married Mark Swales 1846 at Pickering, they are my 2xgreat grandparents.
Elizabeth's parents were Alexander abt 1821 Rievaulx (not on IGI) and Mary Stewart 1826 (I think from memory) Gateshead, Durham. Alexander's marriage cert says his father Edward. After nearly going out of my mind!!! I have put together Alexander had brother Edward bn 1819 Aycliffe (not on IGI) (maybe doesn't know where he was born) Christiana bn 1812 Pickering. Edward's marriage cert also says his father Edward. Christiana's baptism says parents Edward and Mary. By tracing them through the census I have connected them with Francis Swales from Aycliffe who was married to Christiana Stephenson. So putting 2 and 2 together she must be connected to them.
Now have marriage Alexander Stephenson and Elizabeth Burnsides Patrington 1782. Have children Edward 1783 Northallerton, Elizabeth 1784 Easingwold, Alexander 1785 Easingwold (all on IGI) Have found in census Ambrose Stephenson bn abt 1789 Darlington occup Tinner. Ambrose's marriage cert says father Alexander. Still looking for other siblings. ha ha
So think she is daughter of Ambrose, baptised 25 Feb 1760 St. Cuthberts Darlington. Sorry to prattle on. Hope you followed all that.
Val
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Forgot to mention have a copy of baptism entry of Hannah Swales born Kirkby Moorside. Father Francis Swales of Oakley near Darlington an itinerant Potter, son of Hannibal.
Mother Christiana daughter of Alexander Stephenson of Blackwell
Born Jan 24 1801
Baptised Jan 26 1801
So pretty conclusive.
Val
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re- Burnside . Anne Burnside, 21 ,father Edward Burnside, Sheffield married Terrance Raffarty 25, father Francis Raffarty . May 28th 1860, page 148 of parish register PARISH CHURCH of Sheffield.Anna and Terrance had ;
Emily 1860, Mary 1862, Ann 1864, Francis 1866, Sarah 1867 ,Edward 1869, Terrance 1871,she was pregnant with lavinia when Terrance senior died,[1874 Durham 10 a 260 oct, Nov. Dec .].She then married my great-grandad Andrew Wilson,[1847 Thorne his father Robert Wilson Kirby Moorside 1818 ] and had; Fanny1876, Voilet 1878, Bella 1882 ,and my grandad Andrew 1883.Stopping next to my grandparents in 1911 Robinson fair grounds Kettering, is Anna Rafferton ?,who had 19 children,which ties in with family legend .Also going back to 1891 with Andrew and Hannah, ,Ann Bonsin[Burnside?]was listed as mother in law[Edwards wife?] I'm new to this so i wonder if this info is of any help in the Burnside saga?---janeo
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Hi, I am also related to the burnsides. My great nan was hannah burnside and we are also related to the hunters and smalls? My nans grandad also had donkeys on Whitley bay. Any info anyone?
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P.s. My great nan was born in York
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Hi Val,
I have William bap. Aycliffe 21june 1829 son of Edward and Elizabeth
occ. Potter liv Aycliffe. Bishops Trans.Have you got Thomas 17dec 1843 Aycliffe and Edward 26sep1847 aycliffe. Why William was not on 1841, i dont know but will look for him. I was interested in william Allison, as i have a Joseph Burnside =Hannah Allison from Cockfield. Do you know if Francis Swales was related to my Robert Swales.
Regards Fred
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Hi Fred
My great grandparents were Joseph Burnside and Hannah Allison. My nanna was their daughter Eleanor Ann Burnside aka Ellen / Helena born 24 Apr 1883 Durham. I am also losing the plot with the Burnsides. I have her on the 1901 Census and then as Soothill on the 1939 Register. She supposedly married Jonathan Soothill in Halifax, who would have been my grandfather. I know she went to Halifax where my mother was born but I cannot find any trace of her marriage or my mother Lily's birth 23 Feb 1916 Halifax.