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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Kirkcudbrightshire => Topic started by: glesgaguy2 on Sunday 06 December 09 20:30 GMT (UK)
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I wonder if anyone can give me advice or information with Mr Andrew Boddon (Bodden).
I have him on the 1841 census living with his family in the parish of Carsphairn Kirkcubrightshire.
His profession is given as "Surgeon" aged 35, this seems strange too me as his neighbours are a shoe maker but mostly farm labourers, one is a schoolmaster.
What type of surgeon lives in a small village at that age? (I presume Carsphairn is a village).
I would have presumed surgeons would live near to large towns or cities.
It crossed my mind that he may have been joking at the time but his daughter does give his profession as surgeon on her marriage certificate.
Just seems strange too me, any thoughts or advice would be appreciated.
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He may have been more of what was known as a "Barber Surgeon" rather than how we understand the word today. He possibly never went to medical school and would have served as an apprentice to another Barber Surgeon before setting up on his own. His skills would have been quite basic, setting bones, amputations etc - he would probably not have performed any internal surgery, or only very minor stuff. A lot of my ancesters spent some time in the Carsphairn leadmines and I would imagine there would be quite a few injuries there to deal with.
On the other hand, he may well have been very well qualified and just liked a quiet life!
Grendlsmom
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Thanks, gratefull for your information and it could make some sense
She did state on her marriage cert that her father was a Physician, and it was her husband (a Silk Dyer in Glasgow) that stated on her death cert that he was a surgeon.
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PS - have you seen the lady looking for Boddans on the Scotland General thread?
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Hello.
I cannot comment on status of Andrew Boddon , but am hoping you may be able to help me.
I am trying to find some Boddons but not having much luck .
I have one William Boddon ( my Greatgrandfather )son of a ROBERTBODDON Born Scotland 1841 (Wigtownshire or Kirkbrideshire per 1861/1871 census )
I have found a birth record for a Robert Boddon 24/09/1840 born to Andrew Boddon / Margaret Macmillan of Carsphairn and also 2 more records for daughters 28/12/1842 and 30/08/1844 ... both are listed as named Marion
I cannot find Andrew on 1841 census , but you obviously have .. All I can find on 1841 is a Robert aged 2 listed with a James and Mary Boddon both aged 65 ( old enough to be Grandparents ) .. but if correct where were parents ?
I am fairly certain this is correct thread , and if so would make sense of a few odities , also explaining why my Grandfather decided to give all his sons MacMillan as a second name .
Sorry to ramble on , but any help you can give will be very much appreciated.
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It seems we may have some family ties.
The problem with finding the Boddon family is the name spelling, in various forms it can be Boddon/Boddan/Bodden/Boddin or Bodin, I presume it depended on the form filler.
I found Andrew Bodden (surgeon) 1841 census living in Carsphairn, born c.1806
Wife Margaret (nee McMillan) born 1811 with 3 daughters and 1 son
Elizabeth (daughter aged 10)
Jane (daughter aged 7) my maternal ancestor grandmother x 4
Robina (daughter aged 3)
Robert (Son aged 6 months) presumeably your great great Grandfather.
I have hit a brick wall with Andrew Boddon, however I did find his wife's Margaret's parents who were Robert McMillan (born 1776) and Elizabeth (nee Locke born 1778) living in New Bank (Mill) Kilpatrick Durham.
Robert McMillan was a Farmer (21 acres) and a Manufacturer (possibly dyer/weaving) with 5 daughters and 1 son, employing 3 men.
Elizabeth born 1803
Jean born 1805
Margaret (Boddan) born 1807
Janet born 1813
Marion born 1828
John unknown but may be the youngest.
All name spellings are taken from Robert McMillan's Will/Testament dated 1847 and executed 1853, so I presume are the correct ones but can vary on some documents.
I cannot find any records for the deaths of Andrew or Margaret Boddon but they are mentioned in Robert McMillan's will in 1847 (he mentions that Andrew is "sometimes Surgeon at Rocketford", they seem to have disappeared by 1851. Elizabeth, Robina and Robert (aged 10) are staying with the Grandparents McMillan in the 1851 census, Jane being married, so I presume Andrew and Margaret are dead
Anyway that gives you the tie to the McMillan name and family.
All the best
Tom
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Re your search for Andrew Bobben & family, I think this may be of interest to you.
Taken from the Pre 1855 MIs for Carsphain graveyard.
Andrew Bodden d 7.7.1850 aged 44yrs.
Wife Margaret McMillan d1.5.1845 aged 38yrs.
Dau Marion d 18.10.1843 aged 9mths.
Dau Marion d 23.3.1845 aged 7mths.
Hope thyis helps. Matt
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Re your search for Andrew Bobben & family, I think this may be of interest to you.
Taken from the Pre 1855 MIs for Carsphain graveyard.
Andrew Bodden d 7.7.1850 aged 44yrs.
Wife Margaret McMillan d1.5.1845 aged 38yrs.
Dau Marion d 18.10.1843 aged 9mths.
Dau Marion d 23.3.1845 aged 7mths.
Hope thyis helps. Matt
Thanks Matt your a star , this seems to be the correct family, the ages match my 1841 census and explain why the rest of their children are staying with grandparents in 1851.
My only problem is why the grandfather intimates Margaret being alive in his 1847 Will ? although I think the Will could have been amended and added to so the date may be irrelevant.
Thanks again
Tom
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For information this appears to be the details for Margaret McMillan's parents. They are buried at plot 32 Kirkpatrick Durham graveyard.
Robert McMillan d Newbank 8.4.1853 77yrs
Widow Elizabeth Locke d Newbank 27.8.1867 80 yrs
John McMillan d 15.6.1882 72 yrs
Dau Elizabeth d Halketlaeths 16.8.1866 31 yrs
wife Janet Milligan d Trueman Place Castle Douglas 30.11. 1892 82 yrs.
Also at plot 221 there is a headstone that reads,
Erected by Robert McMillan and his wife Elizabeth Loch at Newbank In Memory of
Dau Janet d 18.7.1815 1 yr
Dau Elizabeth d 13.11.1819 16yrs
Son Robert d 25.9.1835 17yrs
G/son Alex Laurie d Newbank 28.4.1839 7yrs.
Plot 220 relates to a James Bodden (1770-1839) & family.
Plot222 relates to a Robert Bodden (1794-1844) & family.
Rgds Matt
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Matt, thanks
You've done it again, it all matches my information, I trust your not physically trudging the graveyards for the information.
So far I've got back 5 generations on this Female line, I don't trust the Male line since I found one of my Great Great Grandfathers was illegitimate, the old saying "you always know your mother but can never be sure of your father" holds true.
Now if I could find more on Elizabeth Locke, I believe she came from Parton whilst Robert came from Irongray, thing is I can't find them anywhere on the 1841 census on Scotlands People.
Thanks again for everything
Tom
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Hello Tom & Matt .
What a couple of stars you are ... Iv.e spent weeks on and off trying to find any tangiable links back from my G G Grandfather Robert Boddon.
He married in Lancashire in 1865 and died there in 1878 . Only4 of his 6 children appear to have survived ... my Grandfather William , son John , and 2 daughters Margaret & Marion (currently unable to trace but still trying ) .. family rumour is that one daughter became a prominent doctor back in Scotland ,but cannot trace or prove ... so fact or fantasy ?? I have no idea .
Am waiting on Roberts birth certificate but it seems almost certain he is the one you have identified ...
Had previously found traces of 2 other Roberts one born 1839 and other born 1845 ... neither fitted but feel we have right one now .
I have found birth records of Robert and 2 marions on Scotlandspeople and parents are clearly shown as Andrew Boddon and Margaret MacMillan spouses .
I have always wondered where the McMillan came from , and both my father , and my Grandfathers brother were named Andrew , so this link would make a lot of sense.
I have also had same problem with names/spelling etc .. but where have they all gone ??
By 1911 the only Boddons I can find on the census are my lot .
Thanks again for info and help
Jane
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It does seem now that we do have the same common ancestor Andrew Boddon.
You'll find the census document on Scotlandspeople for 1841 showing the family.
Search:
Andrew Bodden (sic)
age 35
Kirkcubright
Carsphairn
This will show Robert aged 6 months
For the McMillan Grandparents in 1851
Search:
Robert Bodin (sic)
age 10
Kirkcubright
Kilpatrick Durham
It cornfirms the correct family as the sisters names are the same with the correct ages
You'll need to buy the previous page for the grandparents details.
You can also get the Will/Testament for Robert McMillan (cost £5) from Scotlandspeople
Search:
McMillan
Robert
1853
This confirms the link to Andrew Boddan (sic) surgeon, it makes quite interesting reading IMO.
It's also likely that Andrews parents could be the ones mentioned above by Matt in the James Bodden family grave 1770-1839 as the year range seems correct.
As far as the correct spelling of the name goes, my ancestor gave the spelling as Boddon on her marraige cert, although the grave stone states Bodden, take your pick ;D
Tom
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Hi Tom & Jane,
Glad the information was helpful. I have some further MI's re the Bodden/Boddon families. If you would like me to forward it let me know. I will then pass on my home E-mail addy.
I am going back up to Scotland in April to search the grave yards again so will take pics of these headstone for you then.
Rgds Matt.
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Hi Matt .
The information you have has been most helpful Thanks.
I am now tying in your info with details I had managed to uncover , and the mist is lifting slightly !
Any other information you have that is relevant to the Boddons would be most helpful .
What is your line of connection to the Boddons. ?? ... mine is direct through the male line .
Regards
Jane
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Matt.
I've PM'd you with my details.
Thanks
Tom
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Hi Matt .
The information you have has been most helpful Thanks.
I am now tying in your info with details I had managed to uncover , and the mist is lifting slightly !
Any other information you have that is relevant to the Boddons would be most helpful .
What is your line of connection to the Boddons. ?? ... mine is direct through the male line .
Regards
Jane
Jane
I presume your birth name is Jane Boddon, if so it's another coincidence, as you maybe have noticed from my previous post that that was my ancestors name, Jane Boddon :) :)
Tom
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Hi Matt .
The information you have has been most helpful Thanks.
I am now tying in your info with details I had managed to uncover , and the mist is lifting slightly !
Any other information you have that is relevant to the Boddons would be most helpful .
What is your line of connection to the Boddons. ?? ... mine is direct through the male line .
Regards
Jane
Hi Jane. Sorry I have no connection to your family. Just a couple of books of MIs, plenty of freetime & trying to help out fellow researchers when & where I can. Will send you a personal message with my e-mail addy.
Tom have just sent you the first installment.The booklets state that if I copy them onto this site I will be in breach of their copyright !
Matt
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Hello Tom.
Yes I did notice your ancestor was Jane Boddon.
By coincidence my GG Grandmother was also Jane Boddon (nee Price )
I was Jane Boddon by birth but now King.
Must keep in touch as more details come to ligt
Thanks and regards
Jane.
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Hi :)
Just a possibility but there might be a link.
Do any of you know of a William Bodden(alt spellings) who went to Wales (Merionethshire) from the Carsphairn/Kells area in the 1830s and died there?
Gadget
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Hi :)
Just a possibility but there might be a link.
Do any of you know of a William Bodden(alt spellings) who went to Wales (Merionethshire) from the Carsphairn/Kells area in the 1830s and died there?
Gadget
Sorry nothing showing a William on my documents, I have no firm evidence for any of Andrew Bodden's relations except the possible link to James Bodden as being his father, as shown on the MI's provided by Matt.
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Hi
Thanks for checking for me. His name is mentioned in a letter than one of my ancestors wrote and I've been trying to locate this particular Bodden family for a few years.
The letter refers to his early life and just before his death circa 1833.
Regards
Gadget
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Hello.
I know the feeling .. iv'e been trying to trace my lot on and off for years.
I have found odd Boddons in Wales / Cumbria / Northumberland and Lancashire (where my lot hailed from )
Many appear to have come out of Scotland (generally Kirkbrideshire) around 1790 / 1830 , but have struggled to establish any tangiable links between them.
I have found that some names .. i.e. William , Robert , John , Jane , Marion & Elizabeth keep cropping up across these families . Family ties or coincidence ?? I dont know , but think it highly likely there is a tie-up a generation or two back from Andrew , if only Parents/Grandparents can be found..
My father would never talk about family ... other than that his father was a bully etc. etc. and family didn't keep in touch.
Jane .
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Hi Jane :)
I'm interested in your 'Lancashire lot' because there just might be a link.
Gadget
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Hello Gadget .
I am waiting on certs. to confirm my G G Grandfather Robert born 1841 back to Andrew Boddon & Margaret McMillan as identified by Tom.
Robert moved to Liverpool I believe around 1862
He married in 1865 and had 6 children
Augustus 1867 ..... died 1878
Margaret 1868 .... still trying to trace
John 1869 .... moved to London and married 1900
Marion 1870 ..... moved to London and married 1905
Andrew 1872 ........ died 1878
& William 1875 My G Grandfather
Robert also died in 1878 .
I have found 2 other Boddons in Lancs and 1 in Cumbria who I had hoped to find as members of Roberts family , but sadly not .
They may possibly be Uncles or cousins , but until I can find more ties to Andrew ( parents or siblings ) I have no idea .
Will keep in touch if I uncover anything else.
Jane
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Hi,
I'm interested in making contact with anyone researching this family.
Penny Mercer
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Hi Penny,
Welcome to RootsChat :)
I am very sorry glesgaguy's email address is not working at the moment so has not picked up your message. I have a postal address so will drop and letter in the post to let him know.
All the Best
Sarah :)
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Hi,
I'm interested in making contact with anyone researching this family.
Penny Mercer
Hi Penny
My email address was deleted by my provider for some reason and I haven't been on the site for some time.
Do you require any specific information or do you have any?
I came to a dead end with regards to my origional query/ancestor and the thread seems to cover most of the information available but if there is anything I can help with let me know
Tom
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Could I just thank who ever resurrected this thread :-*
I re-read it and went on a search in the FindMyPast online records and have just found William's burial in Llanfor in 1833 with an approx date of birth of 1782. His address is given as the same one as my 3xgreat grandparents lived in when they moved from Kirkcudbrightshire.
Hi
Thanks for checking for me. His name is mentioned in a letter than one of my ancestors wrote and I've been trying to locate this particular Bodden family for a few years.
The letter refers to his early life and just before his death circa 1833.
Regards
Gadget
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Welcome back Tom ;D I have just merged your two profiles together.
Regards
Sarah
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Hi Tom,
I'm a descendant of Marion McMillan and Rev Peter Mercer. Marion was the sister of Margaret McMillan, who married Andrew Boddan.
I'm interested in more information about Marion's relatives, including her sisters. Marion and her husband emigrated to South Australia in 1855, but I only just discovered recently that Marion and her children were back in Kirkpatrick Durham at the time of the 1861 census which was a surprise to me.
I'm keen on building up a story about the life of my ancesters and their children, so this means I'm keen to excahnge certificates or other records or photos that help with knowing more about occupations, where they lived, family relationships etc. I'd love to know more about Margaret McMillan and Andrew Boddan and anything else you may know about the family in Scotland.
Penny
Melbounre, Australia
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Hi Tom,
I'm a descendant of Marion McMillan and Rev Peter Mercer. Marion was the sister of Margaret McMillan, who married Andrew Boddan.
I'm interested in more information about Marion's relatives, including her sisters. Marion and her husband emigrated to South Australia in 1855, but I only just discovered recently that Marion and her children were back in Kirkpatrick Durham at the time of the 1861 census which was a surprise to me.
I'm keen on building up a story about the life of my ancesters and their children, so this means I'm keen to excahnge certificates or other records or photos that help with knowing more about occupations, where they lived, family relationships etc. I'd love to know more about Margaret McMillan and Andrew Boddan and anything else you may know about the family in Scotland.
Penny
Melbounre, Australia
Hi Penny
I presume you have all the information on Marion's father Robert McMillan?
Marrions' sister Margaret married Andrew Boddon (a surgeon) they had 4 children Elizabeth(b1830) Robina (b1832) My ancestor, Jane (b1834) and Robert (b1841)
They stayed at Crocketford for a spell before moving to Carsphairn where Margaret died in 1845 and then Andrew in 1850.
The children went to stay with the McMillan grandparents at Newbank, they can be found in the 1851 census at that address, although my ancestor Jane is not included in this census (must have been elsewhere)
Robert McMillans last Will and Testament causes me a problem as he mentions all his sons and daughters as though living, the will is dated 1847 and executed in 1853 but according to the pre 1855 Mls for Carsphairn graveyard Margaret died in 1845, and also interestingly enough names two more daughters...Marion died 1843 aged 9 months and again Marion died 1845 aged 7 months...named after their aunt Marion perhaps?
Do you have any more information about Robert McMillan? Also there are old pictures of Newbank Mill (the house Marion would have known) on the web if you Google the name.
Tom
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Hi Tom Matt and welcome Penny.
Great to have the thread alive again. I also have not been on site for a while but have progressed a bit with tying up my line, and can hopefully add a bit more detail to some of his siblings but have not identified much in the way of professions etc other than scant details on census etc.
Will post what details I have and maybe gain a bit more for my records.
Jane
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Hi,
I have census records for some of the family in 1841 and 1851, copies of parish records for some family events in Kirkpatrick Durham and Urr, including the baptism record of Jane Boddan at Urr.
I have Robert Millian's will and that of Elizabeth McMillan, his wife. I also have photos of Newbank Mill, and Robert McMillan's dyeing handbook, taken when I visited there in 1991. To answer the question about Robert, he was born at Irongray 8 Feb 1776, but the Irongray parish records have a gap just at the time he would have been baptised.
I have copies of marriage and baptism records, and quite a birth, death and marriage certificates for the family of Marion McMillan and Peter Mercer, and one photo of Marion McMillan (Mercer) and of her gravestone at Cheltenham cemetery in Melbourne.
PM me your email address if you would like to exchange scans.
I didn't have death dates for any of the Boddon family, so didn't realise about the anomaly mentioned by Tom in Robert McMillan's will. Actually, I have very little about the Boddan family.
I wonder if any of you have researched what it meant to be a surgeon in the 1830s-1840s? I've always thought that this would be an occupation for someone living somewhere bigger than Carsphairn.
Penny
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Penny
It seems you have found as much as possible.
Regarding Andrew Boddon's title as Surgeon, it seems he was doing little more than performing minor surgery and as someone said earlier in the thread they used to be Barbers although he must have had some training, maybe he could do amputations, which would be required around Carsphairn as I understand there were some mines in the area, although I don't think it would be full time work and that's why Robert McMillan refers to him as "sometime surgeon"
My research into Andrew Boddon found a Will made by an Andrew Boddon d1839, I thought this might have been his father but Andrew the younger is not mentioned in the Will as being related, however he is mentioned in the Will as being a creditor, at the time the Will was executed it states:
Principal sum in promissory note by Andrew Boddan, Surgeon Crocketford to the defunct dated 14th November 1825.....£200.00... Interest due thereon...(unreadable)
Principal sum in Bill by the said Andrew Boddan, Surgeon Crocketford to the defunct dated 28th January 1828 payable three days after date.....£66.5.6
Interest due....(unreadable)
On which no value whatever can be put the debtors being utterly insolvent
So it seems Andrew Boddan wasn't doing too well at that time but had well to do namesake who must have been a relation, but I can't find the connection.
Does Robert McMillan's Dyeing Handbook mention any names or contacts? I ask because Marion's sister Margaret (my GGG grandmother) her daughter Jane married a widower Silk Dyer from Glasgow, he had his own silk dyeing business, so I presume there was a business connection.
Tom