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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Yorkshire (East Riding & York) => England => Yorkshire (East Riding & York) Lookup Requests => Topic started by: bendywendy on Friday 11 December 09 20:11 GMT (UK)
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Hello
I am helping someone who now lives in Australia and is related directly to this family.
I am requiring information on the following please, re Census, Baptism's, Marriages, Deaths etc:-
John Craven born Newport/Wallingfen c 1828. On 1881 census Plymouth, Devon. On ship "Albina" as Master Mariner
with "other" George Tom Craven c 1860 as Mate, born Goole.
George Tom Craven settled his family at Rawcliffe/Goole. He married Caroline Isabella Mowsar @ Rotherhithe, St Olaves, London 1882. Caroline was born in Holborn, London.
Children found so far:-
George Tom Rotherhithe 1883
Caroline Isabella Mar Q 1887 Goole
Elizabeth Ellen Mar Q 1889 ""
Emanuel Broadbent Jun Q 1891 ""
possibly about 10 children in total.
Wonder who the parents are for this one:-
John William Craven Dec Q 1868 Goole 9c
I know from marriage details of George Tom Craven that his father is named John Craven a Master Mariner.
This Craven family were ship owners and Master Mariners, any information on them would be greatly appreciated.
Any census information would be very useful for Goole/Newport/Wakefield areas for any Craven, I think there is a link to James Craven the Boat Builder at Wakefield.
I have found a family burial in Eastrington for a John Craven 1790 of Wallingfen and his daughter Elizabeth Craven 1823 Spinster late of Swanland. Also buried in same 3 other children who died in infancy, no names.
Another burial of Hannah Craven of Newport aged 34 1849 husband Benjamin Burn 1842 (Bellasize) and dau Susanah Craven 1829 aged 34. Also 6 other children died in infancy, no names.
I think these two families must have a connection to the John Craven above ????
There is some family photos and a painting of one of their ships "Grovehill" at Goole Library. According to the Archivist the documents were donated recently by the Craven family of Hull having a connection with the Craven family of Goole. See 2nd page for links to view the pictures.
Regards
Bendywendy
Links to other Rootschat boards in relation to this
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=485529.msg3459237#msg3459237
Ship "Elizabeth" sunk 15th Nov 1894 Folkestone also the burial details for John Craven
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=424369.msg2893296#msg2893296
Caroline Isabella Mowsar Rotherhithe
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=425176.msg2901457#msg2901457
George & Sophia Stead W. Yorks.
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More information of the Grovehill 91397 can be read on Ships Nostalgia website, through my thread, this includes where she was built, size and links to the National Archives, Kew where her shipping records are held and Newfoundland where her Crew Records are kept.
http://www.shipsnostalgia.com/showthread.php?p=434295#post434295
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/displaycataloguedetails.asp?CATID=-5830942&CATLN=7&Highlight=,GROVEHILL&accessmethod=0
http://www.mun.ca/mha/holdings/searchcombinedcrews.php
There is also information held of Grovehill 91397 at Hull History Centre when she was owned by JW Hellyer and used as a fishing trawler before being sold to John W Craven and re-rigged as a ketch/schooner.
http://lib3.adir.hull.ac.uk/dserve/dserve.exe?dsqIni=Dserve.ini&dsqApp=Archive&dsqCmd=Overview.tcl&dsqDb=Catalog&dsqSearch=((text)='%2091397')&dsqPos=0&dsqNum=10&PF=No
3 pages available
I have now located some local shipping info that should contain details of Craven, this info is held at The Treasure House, Beverley.
Someone has spent many hours trawling through these records and so far has not found anything relating to Craven, more reading required ???
2 lots of Documents held, listed below.
FindingNo
DDX249
Title
HULL AND GOOLE SHIPPING RECORDS
Date
1864-1909
Description
Includes official log books, accounts of voyages, crew lists and agreements for vessels registered at Hull and Goole 1864-1909.
FindingNo
DDX249/1-49
Title
Documents presented 7 Jun 1972
Date
1898-1909
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I have some further information to add that has been found:-
Crew and Others on board of the Ship or Vessel called the SECRET the night of Sunday April 7th 1861 @ Hunslet.
John Craven married age 34 Master born Newport, Yorks.
Martha Craven married age 29 Master's Wife born Wakefield
John Broadbent Craven "Boy" age 10 born Wakefield Could he be a son??
John William Craven son age 6 born Wakefield........... FreeBMD Dec Q 1854 Wakefield
Martha Craven dau age 4 born Wakefield
George Thomas Craven son age 1 born Wakefield ??? states on 1881 census born Goole, Yorks??
Vessel SECRET
Port of Belonging Goole
Tonnage 42 Tons Register
Description and Trade Sloop Coasting Trader
Name of Master John Craven
It could be that the immediate family of John Craven lived on board the ships.
Can anyone pick them up on the following census's please???
The family was not on board ALBINA on 1881 census, see previous posting for info.
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Emmanuel Broadbent Craven born 1891 Goole joined the Royal Navy and his Naval Records
are held at the National Archives. See Page 2 for details.
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Could this be the marriage of:-
John Craven and Martha Broadbent Sep Q 1850 Wakefield Dist 22 635 ????
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I think this could be John Craven's wife and some children on 1881 cen:-
Martha Craven Head 57 born Wakefield Wife of Captain on Sailing Vessel
Sarah A Craven dau 16 born Goole
Emmanuel Craven son 10 born Goole Scholar
Southeron Street, HOOK, York (next to Goole)
RG11 4702/127 12
Sarah A above could be:-
IGI
Sarah Ann Day Craven bap 4 Jun 1865 Goole
Father John Craven Mother Martha
Emmanuel D Craven born Goole 1871 fits with one above but no parents details
Emmanuel Broadbent Craven born Jun Q Goole 1891
Martha has an age problem, 29 on 1861 cen c 1832, now 57 on 1881 cen c1824 ???
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Hi
1891 RG12/755 folio 85
onboard the vessel 'Ariel' off Dungeness, Kent
John Craven/married/63/master/Yorkshire Newport
Bee
:)
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Thanks Bee, he certainly got around and another vessel, they did own some but just how many is not known at present.
Struggling to find a birth/baptism for him and wife Martha???
Bendywendy
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Is this one of yours?
1891 RG12/3873 folio 44 page 8 Hook, Yorkshire
George Craven/boarder/single/34/blacksmith's striker/Yorkshire Wakefield
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If the marriage that you've found for John Craven & Martha Broadbent is the right one, then the IGI has a possible christening
Martha Broadbent christened 5th July 1832, Wakefield, parents John & Elizabeth Broadbent.
Another from the IGI
Sarah Ann Day Craven christened 4th June 1865, Goole, parents John & Martha Craven
and a birth from freebmd
Emanuel Deyes Craven, Q4 1871, Goole 9c 628
Bee
:)
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Hi Bee
Thanks again, time will tell who is who and if they are all from same family.
Strange how they used same names for sons over and over !!!!
I can only find the one marriage for a John C and Martha B, so it might well be correct.
Dorothy in Oz has a lot of sorting to do with this lot.
I think this could be another child of JC & MB:-
Mary Helen Craven 15 Born Goole Domestic Servant to a Postmistress
East Parade 4, Goole RG11 4701/94 3
Bendywendy
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and the last one before I go to bed. :)
1901 RG13/4424 folio74 page 41
32 Spencer Street, Goole
Martha Craven/head/widow/72/living on own means/Yorkshire Wakefield
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Hi Bee
Thanks very much.
Spencer Street, part of Poets Corner behind old Timm's Flour Mills..
me off to bed too now, goodnight.
Bendywendy
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Wonder where this one fits in???
George Craven Wormald Married 36 (c 1845) born Swinefleet Carpenter/Seaman 1881 cen
on board SS Altonia of Goole berthed at Goole RG11 4703/122
Birth:-
George Craven Wormald Mar Q 1878 Goole Dist 9c 755 FreeBMD
Marriage:-
George Craven Wormald to either Caroline Wild or Mary Ann Owens
Dec Q 1874 Goole Dist 9c 1085 FreeBMD
Death:-
George Craven Wormald age 59 Goole Dist Jun Q 1904 9c 457 FreeBMD
I have found some other Wormald in Goole who are also Mariners/Seamen etc., so very possible
that a Craven sister married into this family??
Maria Wormald Head Widow 58 born Swinefleet Wife of Seaman
John H Wormald Son Um 23 born Swinefleet Farm Lab
High St, Swinefleet RG11 4700/15 24
Bendywendy
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I think this could be the birth of:-
John Craven Mar Q 1838 Howden Dist (covers Wallingfen which is Newport)
BUT is 10 years out (c 1828) from his age of 1881 census on board "Albina". ?????? :-\
Is anyone able to follow this up with an earlier birth or possible parents from PR???
IGI
John Craven Bap 19 Jan 1790 Eastrington
Father John Craven
IGI
John Craven birth c 1794 Blacktoft or Eastrington
married
Ellin/Ellen Tate/Taite 27th May 1821 Eastrington Parish
IGI
George Craven Bap 2 May 1830 Eastrington
William Craven Bap 2 Jun 1822 Eastrington
Ann Craven Bap 11 Jan 1825 Eastrington
Father John Craven Mother Ellen
IGI
Thomas Craven married Nancy Scott 30 Dec 1834 Eastrington
IGI
Thomas Craven bap 10 Jan 1836 Eastrington
John Craven bap 25 Apr 1838 Eastrington
Father Thomas Craven Mother Nancy
IGI
John Craven married Margret Maw 5 Oct 1814 Eastrington
IGI
Sarah Craven married John Precious 15 Dec 1828 Eastrington
IGI
Ann Craven married George Hewson 26 Dec 1815 Eastrington
IGI
Charlotte Craven bap 7 Dec 1815 Eastrington
Mary Craven bap 17 Mar 1817 Eastrington
Charlotte Craven bap 21 Oct 1819 Eastrington
John Craven bap 6 Aug 1821 Eastrington
Father James Craven Mother Isabella
IGI
Ann Craven Bap 14 Feb 1817 Eastrington
Father Thomas Craven Mother Susannah
IGI
Mary Craven Bap 3 Sep 1820 Eastrington
Father Benjamin Craven Mother Margaret
Bendywendy
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Some general information regarding Wallingfen/Newport, New Village and New Gilberdyke, they are all now Newport.
For many decades this area did not have a Church of England, so the parishioners had to attend church at Eastrington or North Cave for all events Bap, Marr and Burials.
Because parishioners had to go to another village church, it makes finding information difficult and does not mean that they lived within the parish of said church, so one has to keep an open mind and search a little wider.
The areas mentioned did have 3 Methodist Churches and at least 1/2 Meeting Houses, which also
makes searching difficult.
Newport Church of England Registers started about 1896.
Hope this information helps others searching this area.
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Some info re 1851 census from a knowledgeable friend:-
George 58 (c1793) born Newport and Wife Ann 56 (c1795) born Gilberdyke living Skipton?
George born c 1822 Newport, he was a footman in 1851 at Cambridge, Butler in 1861 in Marylebone, a ManServant in 1871 in Hove , and a Watchman in 1881 in Lancs.
Thomas 63 (c1788) born Newport wife Nancy 56 (c1795) born Market Weighton living Newport.
William 27 (c1824) born Newport a Sailor living with family Broomfleet.
Thomas 15 (c1836) born Newport working on a farm.
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Sorry I havent been able to find out any Cravens in Rawcliffe in 1901 (havent got any info on 1911).
Also looked for John but unable to find him in 1841 or 51 so cant confirm his parents, as John senior doesnt appear either.
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As you know researching Newport is a nightmare, every surrounding village had some people from Newport in their registers before 1896 when the church opened, and then all the other missions etc.
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It is very possible the baptisms etc are most likely entered in the Methodist Registers, when I go next to the Treasure House at Bevereley I will look for them, but it is not easy as these Registers are all "ad-ock", not very well kept in order either !!!
Bendywendy
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This is the only baptism found for Rawcliffe in Baptism Transcriptions CD (1691-1927)
17 Jun 1906, Clara Craven, dau Benjamin & Ada Craven, Police Constable, Low Moor
There are no burials listed in my friends Transcription Booklets (1753-1900) for Rawcliffe
for Craven.
Now I will have to ask if these are from the Parish Church or the Methodist Church Registers,
will post back on here.
Bendywendy
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Craven from Goole to Hull, as in email from Dorothy in Oz:-
""George Tom and Caroline Craven moved from Goole to live at 119 Balfour Street, Hull, because my Great Grandad and Grandma where living in Sabina Terrace, Balfour Street.
After the Great Grandma & Grandie died, Grandad/Grandma moved into their house, and my Mum was married from there on Feb. 27th 1930, when she was 19"".
I think Dorothy means it was John Craven, the great grandfather living in Hull at Sabina Terrace etc.??
If this is correct then John Craven might have been "shipping" from Hull with George Tom Craven his son. Has anyone got any shipping records to confirm this??
Can anyone find them on the 1891/1901/1911 census in Hull???
This has to be the connection with the Hull Craven lot as they donated all the Craven pics etc to Goole Library in connection with the Craven of Goole and Hull.
Any info on the streets etc., would be wonderful, also any Craven info of Hull too.
Bendywendy
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Hi :)
Taken from the 1933 Kelly's Directory for Hull
Craven, George Tom., mariner, 119 Balfour Street
also
Craven, Fredk., engine driver, 106 Balfour Street
from the 1925 directory for Hull
George Tom Craven is still at 119 Balfour Street, but Fredk Craven is not listed.
Bee
:)
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Hi
1901 census RG13/4424 folio 71 page 35
36 Gray Street, Goole
CRAVEN
George T/head/m/41/seaman/Goole
Caroline I/wife/m/38/London
Elizabeth E/dau/12/Goole
Emmanuel B/son/10/Goole
Lilian/dau/8/Goole
Henry W/son/5/Goole
John/son/3/Goole
Joe W/son/2/Goole
Harold/son/4 months/Goole
George T/son/single/18/seaman/London Rotherhithe
Caroline I/dau/single/14/Goole
possible marriage from freebmd
March 1/4 1882 St Olave 1d 301
George Tom Craven
on the same page is Caroline Isabella Mowser
Bee
:)
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and 1891 census RG12/3873 folio 140 page 39
36 Victoria Street, Hook
CRAVEN
George T/head/m/31/mariner/Goole
Caroline/wife/m/27/London Bow
George T/son/8/London Rotherhithe
Caroline I/dau/4/Goole
Elizabeth E/dau/3/Goole
Emmanuel B/son/1 month/Goole
I'm getting confused as to who we are searching for, so could you do a recap, please.
Bee
:)
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Good evening Bee
Thanks for all the info.
Recap is as first entry, John Craven and family. They have moved around so much with
their shipping business this line has gone from Newport to Surrey to Goole to Hull and inbetween
West Yorks and Rawcliffe Nr. Goole, where some are buried.
There is links on this board to the other boards which are connected by Craven.
But still no bap for John Craven born Newport, E. Yorks, now I think this is because of the problem
of Newport as detailed on this board. There could be Craven in the records for North Cave and Eastrington Church, so far it seems no one has found him. If there are no bap in either of these churches then it could be possible the Craven could be Methodist or even Primitive Methodist and these records are at the Treasure House, Beverley.
Immediate line:-
John Craven - George Tom Craven snr - George Tom Craven jnr - it becomes confusing having two same named !!! and both seamen/mariners.
Your census info for Victoria Street, Hook (this street is now in Goole), this is George Tom snr and George Tom jnr.
Census for Gray Street, Goole (part of Poets Corner) again same family as Victoria Street, Hook, very small 2 up 2 down terraced homes, rather a lot to fit !!.
It must be this family that moved into Hull, will clarify with Dorothy in Oz which great grandparents she means.
You are correct with the marriage also. But no marriage or wife for John Craven yet.
Many thanks Bee.
Bendywendy
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Hi Everyone
Update, information for Vessels and Owned and Registered too:-
Thomas Craven
Laurel (Schooner - registered to Craven 1856)
Wells (Schooner - registered to Craven 1856)
Sarah Craven nee Burkill of Wakefield
Brothers (Sloop - registered to Craven 1837)
James Craven of Wakefield I think this is the Boat Builder of Wakefield
Admiral (Schooner - registered to Craven 1849)
Sloop (Sloop - registered to Craven 1849)
Caroline & Elizabeth (Sloop - registered to Craven 1843)
Crocus (Schooner - registered to Craven 1851)
Eliza & Mary (Schooner - registered to Craven 1849)
Friends (Schooner - registered 1849)
John & Mary (Sloop - registered to Craven 1853)
Patience (Sloop - registered to Craven 1855)
Samuels & Eliza (Schooner - registered to Craven 1848)
Superior (Sloop - registered to Craven 1850)
William & Mary (Sloop - registered 1843)
SCHOONER- pronounced (sku--nar) is a sailing vessel using fore and aft sails on two or more masts, with
the forward mast shorter or the same height as the rear masts.
Some schooners had a top-sail on the foremast and were called Top-sail Schooners.
Other schooners had a square fore-sail (with the gaff-fore-sail) and were called Square Top-sail Schooners.
SLOOP- is a vessel known as a Sail Boat with a fore and aft rig and a single mast further forward
than the mast of a Cutter vessel. It is the position of the mast that determines whether a vessel is a Sloop or a Cutter.
I will try and find if there is any connection with all these three ?? OR if anyone knows I would appreciate it if you
posted on here please.
Bendywendy
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Hi Everyone,
Sorry to barge in on your conversation, I am currently doing voluntary research into ships in the East Riding. I am having problems with one ship the ‘Grovehill’ I believe John Craven was the owner.
The only info I have is a photograph of the family on board the ship and information of a letter from Lily Craven to her father John in 1907.
Info I’m looking for is physical size of the vessel, cargos and any stories or situation the people or ship got in to.
:)
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Hi Thorn
It doesn't sound like the boat that you are researching but a search of the online records of the Hull Histoty centre shows a fishing vessel by the name of Grovehill in the 1880's owned by a J W Hellyer.
happy hunting
Bee
:)
ps. welcome to rootschat :D
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Good morning Thorn
You are most welcome to join in.
I have been doing this research for a friend in Oz whose family this is, she was originally from this area.
If you PM me your email address I will forward to her in Oz, you and her can then exchange info as I am
sure she will want to see a copy of this letter.
In the meantime I will try and find some details of her size etc., not sure if I have them, will be back in
touch with you.
I can also point you in the right direction for info on vessels in this area too. I will PM you.
Can I ask why you are interested in the Grovehill???
Kind Regards
Bendywendy
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Hi again Thorn
The Grovehill was owned and lived upon by the Craven family, there might well be another vessel of same name
as this does occur, also you have the connection of the letter from Lily Craven to her father John so this is the same vessel as owned by this Craven family.
In Goole library there is a photo on-line of the Grovehill with the family on board. The Library also has a large collection of photos of the Craven family both Hull and Goole. They also have the original oil painting of the Grovehill.
I know that the museum curator Peter Appleyard would be of great help to you in your research. He is looking for anyone that can also give info to the museum for this family.
Kind Regards
Bendywendy
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Here is the 2 photographs that Goole Library hold of the family Craven on board the Grovehill
"Members of the Craven family onboard the ketch GROVEHILL - Members of the Craven family on board the ketch GROVEHILL. Back John Craven"
http://www.web-exhibition.net/details.aspx?id=1038
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Crewmen onboard the ketch GROVEHILL - J W Craven (L) with crewman, thought to be ketch GROVEHILL
http://www.web-exhibition.net/details.aspx?id=1039
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Here too is brief details of the letter from Lily Craven to her father John Craven
http://www.eastriding.gov.uk/culture/museums/collections/detail.php?t=objects&type=all&f=&s=lily+craven&record=0
Letter
History
Family
Craven, Lily
1907
Card
L:14.8cms W:8.4cms
Panoramic card of Mappin Art Gallery, Sheffield Letter on it written by Lily Craven to her father, Captain J.W. Craven, on the ketch 'Grovehill', sent to his vessel at Leith and redirected to Elie, Fife. Lily was staying with her aunt (Fanny Craven, nee Mason, was from Sheffield). Most of the letter's content relates to the Grovehill's recent passage with a cargo of gunpowder in a recent storm.
ERYMS (Goole) : M6769
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Here is details of the painting by Rueben Chappell of the Grovehill, available to view on line.
http://www.eastriding.gov.uk/culture/museums/collections/detail.php?t=objects&type=all&f=&s=grovehill&record=2
The Grovehill, of Hull
Art
Painting
Chappell, Reuben
Goole
Watercolour; paper; wood
Port side view of the two-masted schooner 'Grovehill', of Hull. Grey-blue hull, eight sails set. flying the red ensign. White life boat. Black hulled steamer with four funnels in the right background. The 'Grovehill' is shown sailing past a rocky headland, on which is a white building. Watercolour on paper, wooden frame.
ERYMS (Goole) : G635
NOTE By flying the Red Ensign (also known as the Red Duster) the Grovehill was a Merchant Vessel.
For more info on Red Ensign read Wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Ensign
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There is also another painting of the Grovehill by TG Purvis which is in a private collection. Very brief details of that painting are on this weblink:-
http://www.fineartemporium.com/se-Purvis-TG.htm scroll down to Known works in Private Collections, then to Grovehill, sorry no image has been found of this painting..
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
WW1 Merchant Seamen Medal Cards for CRAVEN
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/search-results.asp?searchType=quicksearch&mediaarray=&first_date=&last_date=&CatID=45&pageCount=3&query=adm+188/5+craven&queryType=1&pageNumber=2&sortSpec=first_date+desc
3 listed for Goole including:-
Medal Card of Craven, Emmanuel Broadbent
Place of Birth: Goole
1890 BT 351/1
Medal Card of Craven, John Dumsford
Place of Birth: Goole
1874 BT 351/1
Medal Card of Craven, George Tom
Place of Birth: Goole
1859 BT 351/1
These Medal Cards can be paid to view and download on the website for £3.50 each, but you do get approx
6 Medal Cards to one download so with some luck there might be all 3 on 1 download.
If the above link does not open go to The National Archives website and in left hand Quick Search, type in
adm 188/5 craven
this will then bring up a list of choices, click on WW1 Merchant Seamen Medal Cards, will then bring up the list of Craven names.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Registers of Seamen's Services
Name Craven, Emmanuel Broadbent
Official Number: K2045
Place of Birth: Goole, Yorkshire
05 March 1890 ADM 188/871
Name Craven, John William
Official Number: 278056
Place of Birth: Hull, Yorkshire
04 October 1873 ADM 188/443
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/search-results.asp?searchType=quicksearch&mediaarray=&first_date=&last_date=&CatID=15&pageCount=12&query=adm+188/5++craven&queryType=1&pageNumber=6&sortSpec=first_date+desc
Some confirmation of the Craven family c 1787 in Newport is documented in Susan Butler's website.
John Craven was born c 1828 Newport, so a possibility is the family were Methodists.
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:yFl2D5Rz_1cJ:www.btinternet.com/~susanebutler/newport-history.html+capt+john+w+craven,+mariner&cd=4&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk
Bendywendy
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Hi Bendywendy
Thank you for your prompt reply.
Yes I have spoken to Peter in the museum unfortunately he only knows as much as we do. I have also been to the Treasure house with no success hence why I'm looking every where at everything.
once again thank you for your help.
:)
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Further information has been added to this thread regarding the Grovehill and the Craven family...go to links on 1st page of first posting and to links on 2nd page for links to images etc..
I have had a great deal of help from very good people who also have an interest in the Grovehill, it has not been easy to say the least in finding details of this vessel as she was once a fishing trawler before being sold and re-rigged to a ketch.
Many thanks to all involved.
Bendywendy
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Looking at the 1861 census for John Broadbent Craven on board the 'Secret', I am the great great grandson of John Craven and the great grandson of John Broadbent Craven. John Broadbent Craven married an Adelaide Dunsford in St Austell in 1872. Their progeny became Cornish people ! My mother was Adelaide's grand daughter.
Adelaide was the daughter of Jane Dunsford of Saltash Waterside and her father (not generally known) was William Odgers VC . See my blog on William odgers and Family for the interesting history.
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Thanks for the PM, Wendy. Really strange seeing those photos of the family on the Grovehill; John Craven is the spit of my brother, or vice versa.
One thing I noticed in your mercantile medal listing above; John Dumsford Craven is in fact John DUNSFORD Craven, named after his mother's family name in Saltash, Cornwall. He was my Grandfather, who died in 1963 and was born in Goole in 1875. The census of 1891 for ANTONY in Cornwall, lists John Broadbent Craven (father), Adelaide (formerly Dunsford) and John Dunsford Craven (son). My grandfather was a bit of a hero in WW2 as well, 'visiting' Dunkirk three times.
Regards Stan
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I was wondering if you might be able to identify some other photos the library has of the Craven families.
I will ask at the library if they would be able to send you some to look at.
If you would like to add any family details for the Cornish Craven to the local library here, they would be most
grateful and it would also tie up the loose ends we have of the Craven's born in Goole and then lived elsewhere.
Stan...how much of the family history of Craven have you done yet?? Let me know if you need info or help at this end.
Bendywendy
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Take a look at this site....Guildhall Library Manuscripts Section Indexes to Lloyd's Captains Registers
http://www.history.ac.uk/gh/capintro.htm
Search by surnames.
CRAVEN, John b. Yorkshire 1827 S74336
vol.3 1862-1873; vol.17 1874-1878; vol.30 no voyages listed
http://www.history.ac.uk/gh/capsC.pdf
Bendywendy
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I haven't done an awful lot on the Cravens - only as far as they interact with my Cornish relatives via John Broadbent. In regard to his father John Craven of Newport, my gg grandfather, we are rather lucky in that he was caught three times by Census. The 1861 you know about when he had his wife and kids on board the 'Secret' in Yorkshire. You may not know about the 1881 census which places him master of the 'Albina' at Plymouth (see how these coastal ships allowed intermingling of Cornish and Yorkshire people!) or the 1891 census. The latter is particularly interesting as it has him Master of the 'Ariel' off Dungeness - this is where he drowned three years later.
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Over the past few weeks I have once again turned my "spare time of looking" finding more info on the Craven clan.
As Goole library have been given this wealth of family info especially photos and most with names, I have been collating info for the various families so that library staff will at some point be able to put these photos into family order etc..
If anyone would like to contribute any info or photos regarding their Craven line, you are welcome to do so, to help enrich the Craven Archive that now lives at Goole library, I do believe this research will go on for a long time to come.
I strongly believe that the Craven line started in Hull 1750 ish - then came out to Newport/Goole/Wakefield and back to Hull.
I will continue to update the info onto here too, hopefully over the next few days.
bendywendy
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For bendywendy I am the great grandson of John and Martha Craven of Goole and grandson of their son Emanuel Tate Craven (born 23 nov 1871) Please contact me
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Hi Peter Whillis, welcome to Rootschat, once you have made 3 posts you will be able to send bendywendy a personnel message, if you reply to this with something along the lines of thanks for the welcome, you will only need to post one more ;)
Regards
Frank.
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Hi Peter, second cousin once removed :). I am the great great grandson of John (of the Secret), my mother was a Craven and your second cousin.
Welcome.
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I am not too familiar (yet) of my ancestors but ido know that myCraven family sailed on the Albina,Elizabeth and the Grovehill Ihave photos of the last two. Peter
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Hi stanfisher and peter whillis
Wow what a catch you two are.
Goole library have lots of photographs without names that requires someone in the family to look at them and to see if any can be named. So can either of you get to Goole library ???
The library is still on with collating info for Craven, along with me doing what I can too.
Any information either of you have that you would like to submit to the library archives would be wonderful. This Craven archive will remain at Goole library and be shunted off to Beverley.
It was some Craven rellie from Hull that donated all the documents, letters and photographs etc to the library of which they are still putting it all into some sort of order and awaiting me to do my research too and then that hopefully will be cross referenced with what they have to try and establish timelines for the various families.
Peter the library would be most interested in the photos of the he vessels too.
Let me know how I can be of assistance to you both, I am visiting the library tomorrow so will have a word with Peter who looks after this.
bendywendy
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Am really delighted to have found this conversation about the Craven's....I am doing a family history for my wife, whose great grandmother was Martha Knox (nee Craven) younger sister of Joe W Craven. We are hoping to come to Goole this summer and visit the museum as some of the family captured on the old nautical photos with John Craven seem to be familiar.... I would very much like to know where Joe W Craven died and was buried. Any help much appreciated: I am also intrigued to know how the Craven's from Newport etc. connected with the numerous Craven's that were in Hull. Thanks boothferryboy
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Welcome to rootschat, boothferry boy.
I thought someone from the original postings might have answered your query by now.
So, could you confirm the year of birth of Joe W Craven, and whether he was always known as Joe, or did he use John?
In addition have you found him in 1911, and looked for possible deaths on any indexes?
If he was the John W born in 1868 and lived in Goole, there is this death:
Deaths December quarter 1912 John W Craven age 44 Goole 9c 985
http://www.freebmd.org.uk
Added:
Am I thinking of the wrong 'Joe W Craven'?
Marriage of his sister?
Marriage September 1879 in Hull
Martha Craven and Alfred William Knox on same page
and John William Craven looks like the one born about 1855 in Wakefield?
Unmarried in 1881 and down in Devon?
Picture in a tree on ancestry (that does not have his death or further information) - is it your tree?
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Joe William Craven baptised 12th August 1855, in Wakefield, born 15th July 1855.
So this birth (just for reference)
Births September quarter 1855 Joe William Craven Wakefield
Marries in Goole to Frances Mason in 1882?
Death a year out in Sculcoates in 1923?
He is in a different tree on Ancestry- including baptism and death as mentioned.
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He is never shown with his wife in the censuses, but the tree has her in Goole with children.
I was assuming it is not your tree, as the death certificate would show where he died, to try to chase up possible cemeteries.
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Frances Craven in 1901 census has 2 children and her parents living with her in Goole.
She is living in Weatherill Street (which is where my grandparents lived in the early 1950's). Have a look on Googlemaps.
Could this be her death?
Deaths June quarter 1954 Frances Craven age 92 Goole 2b 505
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Hello Boothferryboy and chempat
Sorry for the delay in replying but I have been in the midst of a family funeral.
I will look at this later today and come back to you after I have got the Craven info out, I have tracked some of them but not all as they can be elusive.
bendywendy
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I have Joe William Craven was birth reg September Q 1855 @ Wakefield.
He was baptised @ All Saints, Wakefield 12 August 1855 and his DOB noted as 15 July 1855 his parents noted as John Craven and Martha Craven.
I have him tracked on census's 1881/91 & 1901/11
He became the Master of the vessel Grovehill, of which information is held at Goole Museum Library
He and his wife Frances Mason married Mar Q 1882 and reg Goole, they had the following children:
1. Joe William Craven 3 Feb 1883 Goole Reg Goole Mar Q 1883
2. Lily Craven 16 Sep 1888 Goole Reg Goole Sep 1888
3. George Riggoll Mason Craven 30 Mar 1890 Reg Goole
4. Joseph Craven 19 July 1893 Reg Goole Sep 1893
5. George Craven 19 July 1893 Reg Goole Sep 1893
6. John William Craven Reg Leeds Mar 1892
Deaths:
1. Joe William 0 yrs Goole Dec Q 1883
3. George Riggall M Craven 0 yrs Goole 1890
4. Joseph Craven 0 yrs Goole 1893
5. George Craven 0 yrs Goole 1893
There was a 7th child born and died but as yet I haven't been able to trace this one for birth and death.
Only 2 children survived to adulthood, Lily Craven and John William Craven died WW1
I have a theory about these children's deaths, of which I will PM Boothferryboy privately, but you need to make 2 more messages on this thread for me to do this.
His death is recorded as Dec Q 1923 Sculcoates, E. Yorkshire aged 69 years making him c1854
His probate is recorded at Kingston upon Hull 3 Jan 1924 death date 23 Oct 1923. He was residing at 10 Washington Street, Kingston upon Hull and left effects to his widow Frances Craven of £438. 11s.
As for his burial this has not been located, I will contact the library again and ask them if they have located it as yet as I haven't had time to visit the Hull History Centre to look up the burials register.
All the Craven info came from the Craven family in Hull and they donated to Goole Museum Library.
The connection of the Newport, Hull, Goole, Wakefield Craven's are all from the original family of Craven, I will have to look further back for this info and let you know how far back I researched them.
bendywendy
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Many thanks to everyone for their helpful responses on Joe William Craven.... yes, by my reckoning, I am speaking of Joe W Craven born July 1855, and baptised at All Saints Wakefield on Aug. 12th 1855, then marrying Frances Mason on Feb. 6th 1882. Originally, I thought he was John W, but all the records suggest he was known as Joe throughout the census period at least.
Thanks for confirming his death in Sculcoates in 1923, and hopefully, it may be possible to discover where he is buried. I was interested (and sad) to see that so many of the children born to Frances and Joe died very early, but it makes it all the more intriguing who the children are in the picture held at Goole museum, which I take to be of John Craven (Joe's father) before his loss at sea in 1894, surrounded by probably six children and possibly two adult women who would appear to be all belonging to his family. My guess is that they are mostly the children of Martha (Joe's sister) and Alfred Knox; sorry I don't have the url address for this picture. I look forward to hearing more about Lily and John William in due course.
On the question of the links between Newport and Hull, there is a wonderful baptism entry of the baptism at North Cave Parish Church of Mary, 2nd daughter of William Craven brickmaker and Sarah his wife (from Crowle) living at Eastrington and dated Oct. 16th 1782, which records that William Craven is the son of John Craven also brickmaker of Stanley, which is presumably the village located on the Calder Navigation not that far from Wakefield. Does this suggest that there is a good likelihood that at least some of the Craven's moved downstream in the mid 18th century from the Wakefield area? It would appear that there were already Craven's in the Hull area by the mid 18th century, so my question lies in whether there were close family links between the "Newport" Craven's and the "Hull" Craven's before the migration of "upstream" Craven's to Hull that seemed to take place around the first decades of the 20th century, by which time presumably shipping priorities had perhaps dictated a move downstream - and where Joe W Craven dies in 1923.
I guess my interest here is in trying to get a picture of how the extraordinary shipping narrative from the mid 18th century that shaped the development of Goole and beyond - as there were, it seems, local families who lived abroad as part of the shipping trade from Yorkshire - affected people's lives.
Thanks again for all your responses,
boothferryboy
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Hello again
I had some home improvements done last summer and my boxes of info had to be packed away and I also need to check what research I have already handed to Goole Library Museum on the Craven.
I will be back in touch as soon as I have located the info I need regarding the Hull Craven's and the Wakefield Craven's and the families I researched. The pack of info I had Joe's info in is what I have been working on for sometime, so was to hand.
I will telephone the burials office in Hull and ask them to do a search for me re Joe W Craven's death and burial, I know that there are many cemeteries in Hull, some still being used and some closed, it is not necessarily the closet cemetery to Washington St that is where he is buried.
I do know that Goole Library Museum will be delighted to see you and hopefully you may be able to identify some of the photographs, they also hold much other info too which was donated from the same family.
In the meantime, when you are visiting please let me know as I can also be at the Museum too and would like to meet you.
Bendywendy
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Thanks bendywendy for getting up into the loft to look out those boxes..... I am aware that people like yourself have done so much of the hard work already, so thank you for being willing to share your findings. I look forward to hearing from you on the Craven's in Wakefield and Hull; we lived in Hull for a while a few years back and I still remember how vast those cemeteries were, but it would be good to know where such a mariner as Joe W Craven was laid to rest.
My wife and I are hoping to visit the Goole museum in August; would it be a good idea to try and make an appointment beforehand?
Thanks boothferryboy
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Hi, Just got your PM and this message, been faffing with a laptop since early evening, if only I knew what I was doing with the "inner gubbings" !!!! IT and myself don't gel well at all.
Had such a busy day today, visitors and babysitting, so tomorrow the burials dept is at the top of the list, I will endeavour to find out where Joe W Craven is buried, one reason I need to know is because they are in process of widening the major road through Hull and a cemetery that belongs to Trinity Church is going to have thousands of burials removed and several agencies are involved in this work and to find descendents of any of those burials.
Then to contact the library.
b.
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Burial found for Joe William Craven @ Northern Cemetery Grave 43 Compartment 86 Master Mariner died of Bright's Disease. This grave is in a group of 5 purchased together, the other 4 are empty graves.
I do believe his wife Frances died June Q 1954 Goole and Goole library are searching the Monumental Inscriptions but cannot look at the death register microfiche as it stops at 1950 so one would have to purchase the death cert to see if that entry is the correct Frances etc..
b.
Goole library have searched the monumental inscriptions and nothing found for Frances Craven.
I will now contact Goole Town Council who hold the burial registers for Goole cemetery.
b.
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Thanks for the information on the whereabouts of Joe Craven's burial at the Northern Cemetery in Hull. Yes, I believe Frances died in the 1950's, so hopefully one may discover where she is buried, as clearly not in Hull.
I shall hope to be at the Goole museum on August 21st so will enjoy seeing what light the archive can shed.
If anyone can shed light too on any link that might have existed at any time between the Newport Craven's with the Wakefield Craven's and/or the Hull Craven's, that would be excellent.
Good wishes
boothferryboy
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Not sure if this will connect with 'bendywendy' and 'boothferryboy'...but here goes.
I have been trawling RootsChat with various surnames as I seem to have come to a dead stop in some areas of my families. I'm doing 5 lines right now and I came across the name of "George Craven Wormald". I can connect George (b.1978) and his dad, also George Craven Wormald, back to the Cravens of Wakefield through George Craven Jr's GGF, Samuel Wormald, who married Susannah Craven. My main family line is the Cravens, of whom I am a direct descendant and have quite an extensive tree of the Wakefield Cravens going back to Jno. (John) Craven around 1720-1730. If anyone wishes to contact me, please do so, and I will do my best to help.
lydiaann
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Hi lydiaann
Many thanks for your info. I will have to familiar myself with what is on the thread, sometime since I last did anything with the Cravens.
I will contact you later on.
Thanks bendywendy
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hi lydiaann
wondering if you know of a W.M.Craven of wakefield around 1800s
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ken: I'll need more information than that, please! Do you have the FULL name and any specific dates. The Craven name is rife throughout the north of England BUT 'my lot' do emanate from Wakefield so if you can supply any extra information you have - even of parents/siblings/offspring - that would help!
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I must confess I am not a descendant - i bought some quite rare handsomely bound leather books and "W.M Craven of Wakefield" is the name of the original owner inscribed inside. The books were first printed around 1800 but could have been bought after that I suppose.
They are on the topic of industry and production so would make sense that they belonged to William Craven of Bradley & Craven brickmakers - I wondered if you knew his middle name?
Sorry i dont have any other information but I am desperate to learn more about the original owner as i feel connected to him (or her) through time!
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OK, that's a start. There's a possibility he may be 'mine', but I'll have to dig around first. I won't necessarily get to it today - the garden calls! - but I will have a go! Give me a couple of days, please!
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Richard Bradley, of Bradley and Craven, died in 1874 aged 66. He left a family of 4 daughters and 3 sons.
Still looking for Craven.
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William Craven, born around 1805 in Hunslet, died in 1882 in Wakefield, iron founder in censuses, married to Joan. Personal estate £4,400 proved in 1883. Cannot see him as William M anywhere, but this should help you find him in censuses yourself and see if he had a son W M Craven.
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ok thanks!!
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Hi, Ken:
I agree with what has been said about William Craven, b. Hunslet, etc. etc. At first I was a little sceptical and had collected a number of censuses but finally found that Richard Bradley was also in the 1861 census (Alverthorpe with Thornes) listed as Iron Founder and part owner. According to William's entry, they had 57 employees. Can't see where the initial 'M' comes in at all but I've had that sort of phenomenon throughout all my trees. I can say that this particular William is not one of my Cravens, although probably - as I said initially - the Craven name is especially common in the West Riding, so possibly there is a connection further back. My direct line is hazy pre-1730-1750. However, I will have a go at tracing 'down' the line. Watch this space!
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I've had a go at this. It appears that William's son, John, took over the business as, in the 1881 census, he is the employer (of 140 men and boys, so it had grown somewhat). John married Mary Horsley and had 2 sons - and many, many daughters! - John William (b. 1862 Alverthorpe) and James Horsley, (b. 1864 ditto). However, in the 1891 census, both John Sr. and John William are noted as "Steam Engineer and Machine Maker", with no mention of being employers. Then, in the 1911 census, John William is noted once again as being an "Iron Founder and Employer". He had 3 daughters, and his brother was not an engineer. So, unless we trace down the daughters' lines, I'm afraid it will be very difficult to find the 'owners' of your books.
this was only a basic search, you may be able to find more. There is a member on Ancestry who has researched this family also but seems to have stopped at the 3 daughters too!
Best of luck with your search. Stay safe in these troubled times.
Kind regards
lydiaann
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As an afterthought, I read William Sr's Probate notice...and it would appear to give me a connection to 'my lot' (one of the executors was named 'Hardman', who feature strongly in my Craven line. Strangely, they also appear in my paternal Taylor line, so quite exciting!)- so thanks for the original post, Ken!
lydiaann
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Hi BendyWendy,
Do you have the email address of Dorothy from Oz who you originally started researching the Craven family for? I believe she is my great aunt so it would be lovely to get in touch with that side of the family.
Thank you
Jayne
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Hello Jayne
I will have to email Dorothy and ask if she minds for me to give you her contact details.
bendywendy
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That’s great, thank you so much. If it is she has a sister and two brothers, one of whom also moved to Australia.
Thanks again
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I have tried to send an email to the last known email address, sadly it has bounced back.
I do believe I have an address for her, I will send this via private message to you.
b.
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Thank you for taking the time and trouble for me.
Jayne