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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Merionethshire => Topic started by: Nann on Saturday 12 December 09 00:06 GMT (UK)
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My gggGrandmother was born in Llanaber in about 1802. I think her parents were Owen and Ann Griffiths.
Family stories tell that she worked in the Hunts Cross area Of Liverpool for the family of the Earl of Salisbury where she became pregnant by the Heir. she had her son Mark Owen in Widnes.He became a weelwright/carpenter and the founder of a large family of many branches that all have the same story.In the 1841 census he is an apprentice in St Helens where he spent the rest of his life.
Elizabeth is shown in the Llanaber 1841 census as a female servent.1851 and 1861 finds her back in Liverpool where she was working as houseservant and cook respectivley.
She is back in Barmouth in1871 where she was running the Anchor Inn and was caring for her 2 nieces Dorothy b 1856 and Margaret Griffith b 1861 Grey. ( Both the girls are shown on the 1861 cesus with their parents Hugh and Mary Gray at the Anchor. Hugh is a Carpenter and Inn holder. Elizabeth & margaret Griffith gray were still there in 1881.
Margaret married John Evans (tailor) and moved to dolgellau where they had 7 children.
Thomas Morris b 1882 The name Evans is not shown on the censuses for him.
John Hugh Evans b 1884
Owen Griffith Evans b 1887
William Gray Evans b1890
Griffith Griffith Evans b1893
Ellen Evans b1895
Mary Elizabeth Evans b1899.
Can anyone give me any info on Elizabeth or Mark prior to 1841? Did she return to live with her family until Mark was grown? Did Mark help Hugh Grey with his carpentry untill he left to take up his apprenticeship? Do I have the right Parents for Elizabeth? How could Elizabeth, the young Welsh country girl have found work with such an employer as an Earl?
Does any one know if any of the descendents of the Evans family still live in the area as I would love to get in touch.
I would be delighted to hear from anyone with any info which might fill the gaps in my knowledge of my Welsh family.
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One of Griffith Gray Evan's sons died in the 2nd World War
Gwilym Grey Evans: Private 4208436, 1st Battalion, Parachute Regiment, A.A.C. Died at home 16th April1945. Aged 20. Son of Griffith & Elizabeth Catherine Evans of Dolgellau, Merionethshire. Buried in Dolgellau Nonconformist Cemetery.
There was a local character in Dolgellau Bob (Robert) Grey Evans who died abourt 10 years ago. I believe that Bob was a brother of Gwilym, but I am not 100% certain. If I remember rightly Bob was a member of a large extended family, so I'm sure that some of his relations still live in the area. The best way to see if this might be so would be to write to the local paper:
Y Dydd
C/o Cambrian News Ltd
7 Aberystwyth Science Park,
Aberystwyth,
Ceredigion
SY23 3AH
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One of Griffith Gray Evan's sons died in the 2nd World War
Gwilym Grey Evans: Private 4208436, 1st Battalion, Parachute Regiment, A.A.C. Died at home 16th April1945. Aged 20. Son of Griffith & Elizabeth Catherine Evans of Dolgellau, Merionethshire. Buried in Dolgellau Nonconformist Cemetery.
There was a local character in Dolgellau Bob (Robert) Grey Evans who died abourt 10 years ago. I believe that Bob was a brother of Gwilym, but I am not 100% certain. If I remember rightly Bob was a member of a large extended family, so I'm sure that some of his relations still live in the area. The best way to see if this might be so would be to write to the local paper:
Y Dydd
C/o Cambrian News Ltd
7 Aberystwyth Science Park,
Grey Evans
SY23 3AH
If anybody can help, i am looking to get a photograph of Gwilym Grey Evans headstone
phil
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I will be in Dolgellau for the new year celebrations, if I remain sober enough I will see if I can find it and take a photo for you.
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I will be in Dolgellau for the new year celebrations, if I remain sober enough I will see if I can find it and take a photo for you.
Thanks Dogellau.
Phil
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The weather prevented my New Year's visit to my old stamping grounds, but I passed through yesterday, and got a picture of the MI that you were after.
The file image of the photo is too big for this site but here is a preview:
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Let me know how to send you a decent copy of Gwilym Gray's MI to you!
I noticed 3 other "official" military MI's in the same grave yard
74226 Sergeant A M Owen RAF
14411528 Private M M Pugh The Welch Regiment
1941350 Sapper A Jones Royal Engineers
I took photos of them too, in case they may be of interest, let me know if you want copies and how to send them to you if you do!
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For Nonn a couple of MI's for the wider Gray Evans family, again lt me know how to send better versions (and translations) if needed!
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Dear Dolgellau,
Thank you so much for taking the trouble to tell me a little about about my wider familyand especially for the MI photos. All are very clear but I would be grateful for translations of the two Welsh ones.
Kind regards Nan
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The first stone reads:
Willie Grey
The dear child of Owen and Cath Evans 6 Park Lane
Who died September 26 1917
Aged 5 years
Let little children come unto me
Also Owen Griffith Evans
The dear spouse of Catherine Evans
Who fel asleep May 8th 1938
Aged 44
Also the above Catherine Evans
Who fell asleep April 12 1968
At 78 years old
We shall meet Again
The second stone says:
In loving memory of
John Evans
5 Park Lane
Who died November 5 1925
Aged 69 years
Also his wife
Margaret Grey Evans
Who died March 17 1948
At 90 years old
Also John Hugh their son
Who was killed at the Battle of Gaza
March 26 1917
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Nann, it was the mention of Gwilym Grey Evans that brought me to this thread, however, as I live in 'Widnes' if you need any help, I will see what I can do
Phil
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hello Dollgelau,
Once again my thanks for you helping me out. You seem to have a wealth of historical knowledge which is so good of you to share. Will you let me know where the memorial stones are please so that if I can get to the area I could go and pay my respects.
The Griffith Grey Evens family are a side shoot to my immediate ancestors, Elizabeth Owen and her parents Owen and Ann Griffith Of Llanaber, through Margaret Griffith Grey Evans, I haven't quite worked out the relationship. A second cousin tells me he has been told that Elizabeth, Owen and Ann are all buried together in a churchyard at Llanaber. Can you tell me is Llanaber and Barmouth the same place and would I have lots of churchyards to search in order to find it?
Another thing that puzzles me is the Welsh naming system. It seems that Elizabeth took her fathers first name as her last. Would that have been the norm in 1800-1820? as I thought that it had stopped before then. Last but not least do you know of any large property in the area that would have been used in the early 19th century by the earl of Salisbury and his family as a Holiday home as the same second cousin says he has been told that Elizabeth was recruited into the earls service when they needed staff for the holiday period!! but no evidence for this.
Thanks again. kind regards
Nan
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hello Englandphill,
Thanks for the offer of help. What a wonderfull lot you are! I don't have anything specific for you at the moment other than to ask you about your interest in Gwilym Grey Evans. Is he a relative? If so we may be related.
Kind regards
Nan
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The three stones are in what was originally the Dolgellau nonconformist and Roman Catholic Cemetery, now the town's municipal cemetery. The slate MI's are at the bottom of the first right hand section, as you enter from the main road gate. The military MI is at the top of the same section.
Llanaber is the parish which includes Barmouth. It only has one (very large) grave yard which is by the old parish church (not the new one on the hill), which is about two miles away from the town centre in the direction of Harlech.
The tradition of taking one's fathers' first name continued in Merioneth until the end of the 19th C. My own family name of Humphreys has only been used by 5 generations and since the 1870's!
There are a number of large country houses in the area any one of which may have been used by visiting gentry, I haven't heard of any specific reference to the Earl of Salisbury visiting the area, but during the early 19th C, when travel to Europe was difficult due to wars, the landed families did tend to do a lot of "house swapping", so the Salisburys may well have holidayed in the area.
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Gwilym Gray Evans was my uncle and his parents were my grandparents. His sister Shirley is my mother. Bob (Robert) Gray Evans was also my uncle. The other brother being Jackie. Gwilym was in the first battalion parachute regiment and didn't die at home: he was killed by a grenade after serving for 4 years in front line action of the 2WW (having signed up immediately on leaving grammer school at the age of 15). His uncle John was killed at in 1WW. I have photographs of a lot of the Evans/Gray gravestones if you havent already sourced them. Elizabeth was the aunt of Margaret Gray Evans (through their mother's side). Her parents died quite young (in their 30s of illness) and she was bought up with her sister Dorothy at the Anchor Inn in Llanaber.
Some additional info:
Hugh Grey (B. M. 1854 D. ) - father of Margaret Griffiths Grey mother of Griffin Griffiths Gray
Hugh is described on the 1861 census as residing at the Anchor Inn, Llanaber. He is married, the head of the family and aged 31 years (His occupation is Carpenter and Inn holder. His place of birth is described as Llandegfan, Anglesea.
There is a record reporting a Hugh Grey christened on in Llandegfan, Anglesey. Father: Richard Grey, Mother Grace
Hugh Grey married Mary Griffiths March quarter, 1854 in St Mary’s, Llanaber. Vol 11B, P.566. His fathers name is listed as Richard Grey (Toll gate Keeper).
Hugh Gray (note a) died 25th July 1864 aged 33. He is buried in Llanaber churchyard. Picture obtained.
Relative 5B
Mary Griffiths (B. approx, M. D.)
Mary Griffiths was born in 1832 and baptized on 30th August 1832. Entry states: Mary, daughter of Griffiths Griffiths and Margaret. Abode: Barmouth. Fathers occupation is listed as Blacksmith. Abode is Barmouth.
Mary married Hugh on March 31st 1854. She is described as being a 21 year old spinster (so born approximately 1833) .Her father is Griffith Griffiths (Blacksmith). The wedding was witnessed by Richard Grey (Hugh’s father) and Elizabeth Griffiths (who was ). She is listed on the 1861 census as being a 28 year old carpenters wife. Her place of birth is Llanaber. Also listed are Dorothy Grey (daughter) aged 5 years born in Llanaber and Margaret Griffiths Grey (aged 8 months). There is also a 17 year old servant called Margaret Pugh.
She died on 20th March 1866 aged 33 years. She is buried with Hugh in Llanaber graveyard (picture obtained).
Possible death reference: Dolgelly aged 34, March 1866. Vol 11B, P.334.
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Thanks for the message Ceri
The claim that Gwilym died at home came from the Commonwealth War Graves Commission, but the information doesn't seem to be there any more, it might have been corrected since my post last December.
http://www.cwgc.org/search/certificate.aspx?casualty=2965005
I knew your Uncle Bob well, he use to be a regular in the Cross Keys where I worked as a barman during collage holidays. By coincidence I was scanning some old family photographs into my computer earlier, including this one of the Cross Keys float in Dolgellau carnival about 1982 (just before the district went "wet" after a Sunday licensing referendum)
I am on the left of the picture holding a gun and Bob is next to me wearing a beret and glasses.
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Oh, how fantastic: thank you for the picture. my mum will love that :). Unfortunately when Bob died the house was cleared of all the family pictures and what happened to them is a big mystery. There are therefore no pictures of anybody. I do remember Bob, and his brothers (Derek and Jackie) from being a child and visiting my grandmother (Elizabeth's) house. Obviously Gwilym was gone long before I was born. I found this link because I was trying to find out some additional information on Gwilym. Thank you for the picture. it is much appreciated. regards, Ceri Ransome.
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Dear Nann. Re stones in Llanaber parish church about 2 miles N of Barmouth:- in Dolgelly RO they have film or microfiche records of the stones with alphabetical indexes and also section plans of the whole area so you might be able to find your graves from these. The staff are very helpful of course.
A lot of the stones are readable from the main road with good eyes or binoculars.
The oldest part is quite steep and awkward to walk around but most of the inscriptions are readable especially the slate ones.
I have some from early 1800s which are as sharp as when newly chiselled.
Humphpaul
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Ceri:
We may be related! :o Distantly, of course, but more on that later!
The only evidence I've been able to find so far that Elizabeth Owen is related to Dorothy and Margaret Grey is that the Grey girls are both listed as her nieces in the 1871 census, and Margaret Griffith Grey is listed as Elizabeth's niece again in the 1881 census. Beyond this, I haven't been able to prove any connection between Elizabeth Owen and the Griffiths family; if you have any further information, would you be willing to share it?
Since Elizabeth Owen was born around 1802/1803, and the Mary Griffiths who married Hugh Grey was born in 1832, that makes Elizabeth Owen the great-aunt of Margaret Grey Evans. I don't know if the actual relationship is significant, but it does make it harder to find records by going back an additional generation.
As to our possible familial connection:
You mention an Elizabeth Griffiths, born circa 1833, who was a witness to Mary Griffiths wedding (I've highlighted the text in red in the quote below.)
I've been able to trace my family tree back to an Elizabeth (Eliza) Griffiths, born 27 Dec 1838 in the Anchor Inn in Barmouth. She was christened 6 months later, on 20 June 1839, and is the youngest and last child (that I'm aware of) of Griffth Griffiths and Margaret Williams.
This Elizabeth is my great-great-grandmother, and one of her older sisters was none other than Mary Griffiths who married Hugh Grey. (Assuming I have my facts correct!) Although my research has Elizabeth born a few years later than you mention, she did marry a Welsh carpenter, David Jones, in London in 1863.
I'd be delighted to compare notes, if you'd care to reply!
cheers!
Patrick Jones
<snip>
Elizabeth was the aunt of Margaret Gray Evans (through their mother's side). Her parents died quite young (in their 30s of illness) and she was bought up with her sister Dorothy at the Anchor Inn in Llanaber.
<snip>
Relative 5B
Mary Griffiths (B. approx, M. D.)
Mary Griffiths was born in 1832 and baptized on 30th August 1832. Entry states: Mary, daughter of Griffiths Griffiths and Margaret. Abode: Barmouth. Fathers occupation is listed as Blacksmith. Abode is Barmouth.
Mary married Hugh on March 31st 1854. She is described as being a 21 year old spinster (so born approximately 1833) .Her father is Griffith Griffiths (Blacksmith). The wedding was witnessed by Richard Grey (Hugh’s father) and Elizabeth Griffiths (who was ). She is listed on the 1861 census as being a 28 year old carpenters wife. Her place of birth is Llanaber. Also listed are Dorothy Grey (daughter) aged 5 years born in Llanaber and Margaret Griffiths Grey (aged 8 months). There is also a 17 year old servant called Margaret Pugh.
She died on 20th March 1866 aged 33 years. She is buried with Hugh in Llanaber graveyard (picture obtained).
Possible death reference: Dolgelly aged 34, March 1866. Vol 11B, P.334.
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I have found a record in Australian records for William Gray Evans, with details matching one of the above born in Dolgellau. Australian Army in WWI, not sure what became of him after the war. An uncle of Gwilym?
Kind regards,
Lars