RootsChat.Com
Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Dublin => Topic started by: kristof on Tuesday 22 December 09 02:15 GMT (UK)
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Hello,
I hoping that someone might be able to help me fill in some gaps in the history of some of the Brennan family from Finglas. This is a long post, so apologies in advance, but there is a fair bit to cover, both what i know and what i don't know. Firstly, I’m based in Australia so I am unable to visit Dublin and have been relying only upon what I can access over the internet and with a phone call. This is a severe limitation but I’ve been making some progress. I’ve run into a few dead ends and was hoping to see if there was anyone who could give me a nudge along.
I'm trying to find more information on members of the family of John Brennan of Finglas East. I've found the 1911 Census record for the household and while that's been useful its left some gaps in our knowledge. Firstly there is no street name recorded, just house number 15, Finglas East. Is there any way to determine an exact street address? I’ve looked dup Griffiths, etc. Because John Brennan is such a common name I can’t find a death date or burial record as I have no idea when he died.
Primarily my search is for information on three individuals; Francis Brennan (image attached), Ann Brennan (nee O’Shaunessy) and Charles Brennan. Francis Brennan, youngest son of John Brennan. Francis is my wife's grandfather; my father in law, Francis' son actually knew very little about his father. Francis died in 1955, aged 55, when my father in law was only 10, so he never really got to find out much about him. He knew that Francis was a participant in the War of Independence and Civil War but the only detail that we have is contained within two items, an obituary and a short letter.
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...I'm trying to find more information on members of the family of John Brennan of Finglas East. I've found the 1911 Census record for the household and while that's been useful its left some gaps in our knowledge. Firstly there is no street name recorded, just house number 15, Finglas East. Is there any way to determine an exact street address? I’ve looked dup Griffiths, etc. Because John Brennan is such a common name I can’t find a death date or burial record as I have no idea when he died.....
I presume that this is the Brennan family you mentioned : Brennan Family - Finglas East (http://census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Finglas/Finglas_East/6987/)
Finglas East is located just to the East of the Finglas town and is a townland of 327 acres (see the townland database at : http://thecore.com/seanruad), rather than a road, so there are no house numbers - if you look at the reverse of the census form you will see that the house/street number is blank. You can look at the area on a map on the OSI website at : Ordanance Survey Map (http://ims0.osiemaps.ie/website/publicviewer/main.aspx#V1,713454,739350,6) (select the Historic B&W option) The area looks to be a rural setting, which would fit with the Brennan family's occupations.
There's a Patrick Brennan listed on Griffiths (dated 1849) in the same townland leasing 'House, Office and Yard' from a Jos. Duffy esq. M.D. .... .. could be connected ?
Some Brennan listings from Thom's directory :
1914 - Joseph Brennan , farmer in Finglas but no John Brennan
1904 - Patrick Brennan, farmer in Finglas ... (only Brennan listed in Finglas)
1894 & 1884 - Patrick Brennan, , farmer in Finglas
(the directory does not list Ag. Labourers etc.)
Shane
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Delighted you put up so much information.
I'm from Finglas (only a couple of generations) But I've very often heard Charlies name.
Unfortunately I just came across the same info you found in the Erin's Isle book.
From what I heard about Irish soldiers being decorated, it seems he was very lucky that what he did, was acknowledged. I read somewhere that if there wasn't an officer that witnessed the act of bravery it went unrewarded. It sounded that many brave solders were overlooked.
When I came across that picture it occurred to me the the picture itself may have been the proof that he deserved decoration. Maybe the British archive have info on the criteria or witness. That may help find out was the picture actually the proof.
But your relation that contacted Kew may have exhausted all leads to more details about the picture.
I don't know if there are still relations here in Finglas. I know someone who remembers Charlie, as a neighbour, I'm not sure if he's well up on his service or the republican history in the family. But maybe he knows someone who does.
I don't know whether you will find this disheartening or not, but I've heard other rootschatters mention a year wait when it come to getting info about the Pension Application. So I don't think you've been forgotten.
Now that's (i think) in Galway, but the Dublin military archive give you lots of help.
I would recommend if you actually phone them. They are so helpful over the phone. If there is anything out there that you haven't found yet they'll help you.
Here's a link to contact them.
http://www.military.ie/dfhq/archives/contact.htm
I know you probably already gave that a go.
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Hello and thank you all for your replies,
Thanks shanew147, that's the family i'm trying to work on; the Francis (age 11) mentioned is my wife's grandfather. Turns out from talking to her elderly uncle last night that there was an older daughter who had married and moved out of before the Census, by the name of Margaret; married name was Kilfeather and moved to Sligo. Will have to start work on her soon.
Hello Smokestoomuch, thanks, yes, there are still relations in and around Finglas, but they are all quite elderly now and we are not in regular touch with their children (the perils of being on the other side of the world i suppose). It seems that many people remember Charlie Brennan and i think that he was a "local character". But, as you say, the problem is proving the link between the photo and the person. It seems to be accepted locally that the photo is Charlie; and i hear that there is a framed copy of the photo on the wall at Erins Isle labled as Charlie Brennan. So, its not news to the residents of Finglas that its Charlie.
I have also heard that it may take a year to get a response from pensions; lets hope we're lucky and its not that long.
I have been in touch with the Bureau of Military History, trying to get them interested and trying to see if they might take up the case to prove that this famous photo is actually a Finglas local boy. However, they have expressed no interest. My impression is that due to political and historical sensativities it is relatively recently that there has been an appreciation and reevaluation of the role of Irishmen in WW1. I was told by another source that the Bureau is basically only interested in the history of the Irish Army, post the foundation of the Republic only.
On another note, would someone be able to look up a grave in the old graveyard in Finglas? There is a Brennan family plot in the old graveyard in Finglas, the one with the ruined church. My father in law and his older brother told me that there is a plot where their father is buried, along with several other Brennan ancestors. There is a headstone with all the names of the half dozen or more Brennans interred there, with their father, Francis Brennan, being the last to be buried in that plot. They thought that the dates went back to the early 1800's or so. They saw it last about 2 years ago when they were both back in Finglas for their sister's funeral.
If anyone would have time to locate this grave and transcribe the names and dates it would be really much appreciated? It would help immensely with my research to have the names and dates of the earlier generations.
Christopher
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The graveyard is just down the road. I drop in some Sunday after Christmas.
There is a incomplete listing on the net.
http://www.interment.net/ireland/index.htm
No Brennans
The only worry is, is it the ones that are unreadable that are not on that list.
Yes you're right the military archive would have nothing really to do with WW1. Don't let that put you off.
But the Brennans in the IRA would be what they would be helpful with.
I imagine, that escape tunnels and hungerstriking, it's all serious stuff, they'll have stuff to tell you.
One option is to look for a witness statement of someone who was involved in the same activies. Might be hard doing it from where you are but I'd quiz them over the phone again. They might come up with something.
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Hello Smokestoomuch, thanks for that, much appreciated. My father in law told me that 2 years ago the headstone was in good condition, that the names and dates were legible. So here's hoping that nothing has happened to it since.
In the meantime i've been making some small progress in tracking down some of the older brennan names, possible some that are buried in the family plot.
Yes, i'll try a phone call about the witness statements and see if they can help me out that way.
Would anyone have any suggestions about how to locate the birth parents of Annie O'Shaughnessy/O'Shaunessy? As i mentioned above, she was fostered/adopted by Elizabeth McEvoy of Finglas. My father in law was telling me that they lived at "Finglas Bridge", just before the village itself. I've found the census record for the household but it doesn't help me with Annie's parentage, just says she was born in Dublin, would have been about 1904. She married Francis Brennan in 1926,; would her parents names be recorded on the marriage certificate (if she knew them)?
Cheers
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...Would anyone have any suggestions about how to locate the birth parents of Annie O'Shaughnessy/O'Shaunessy? As i mentioned above, she was fostered/adopted by Elizabeth McEvoy of Finglas. My father in law was telling me that they lived at "Finglas Bridge", just before the village itself. I've found the census record for the household but it doesn't help me with Annie's parentage, just says she was born in Dublin, would have been about 1904. She married Francis Brennan in 1926,; would her parents names be recorded on the marriage certificate (if she knew them)?
marriage cert should show her father's name & occupation, mothers are not mentioned on Irish Civil marriage Certs... not sure in this case if she would show details on her birth or foster father ?
from the Familysearch civil index - these look to be the correct index details required to order a cert fom the GRO :
Name: Francis Brennan
Registration district: Dublin North
Record type: Marriage
quarter and year: Oct - Dec 1926
Volume: 2 / Page: 221
Name: Annie O'Shaughnessy
[same index details]
Shane
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Excellent, thanks for that! I'll have to figure out how to order that certificate; the GRO doesn't do online transactions but instead want you to write your credit card details on a form and mail it off to them; must admit that i'm not entirely comfortable with that, might see if i can do it over the phone (though apparently they need a signed form).
If she didn't know/provide her birth father's name, is there any other way to locate her birth records? The family story is that her father apparently went off to america either before or not long after her birth and left her mother in the lurch.
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If Annie didnt include her birth father's details on her marriage cert then finding her birth cert will be difficult. You could just search The Irish Civil Index (http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#c=1408347;p=2;t=searchable) on familysearch for possible matching births, with close matches to year of birth and name, but without any parents names I think it could be a problem confirming any certs you order based on these are correct. Do you know where she was born ? (i.e. Finglas ?) A location for the birth would narrow down the possible results
I would say the first step is to try for the marriage cert and keep your fingers crossed that it does include her biological father's details.
Shane
(edit : corrected name)
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shanew147,
Absolutely, lets hope that there are some details regarding Annie's father, otherwise it might be back to the drawing board.
What's the best way to go about finding about an RIC constable listed in the 1912 Porters guide to Finglas? It lists a John Brennan, but i've no way of knowing if he's one of the family or not?
C
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Krisof
I think that it might be a good idea to put up a separate tread for say Francis (Terry) Brennan and the Flying Columns, or Charlie Brennan and the WW1 photo etc.
It might attract those that have know-how in those specific areas.
I'm sure there is knowledge on rootschat about IRA activities in Lucan Leixlip etc.
If you put a clue in the subject it might draw out the geniuses.
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Hi,
I am the granddaughter of Patrick Brennan from North road Finglas.I just happened to come across this site through browsing.
My father Patrick Brennan is still alive, he is eighty four years old.
There has been recent names put on the family grave only recently but these are more recent burials such as John (sandy) Brennan who never married.
I don't know if there is some way of contacting directly?
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Once you have 3 posts you can use the private messages system (the little green scroll) under people's name on the left. You can then exchange email addresses and communicate directly.
Shane
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Hi Shane,
Yes I've just copped that. I am only new to this site, but my father could have much of the information that Krisof is looking for or would know the people to ask re same.
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We are not allowed to post email addresses or details of living (or possibly living) people on rootschat, so that's why the pm system is provided.
one more post and you should be able to use it....
p.s. - welcome to rootschat!
Shane
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I thought that I might post a little information from the Brennan family plot in St Canice's graveyard in Finglas to share with any other Brennan researchers out there.
Are there any issues with me posting a transcription of the headstone/memorial?
And of course, many thanks to the person that provided the photo’s and inscription.
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I don't think there's any issue with grave stones.
There are some records that your not free to publish on the web.
But what rootschat are most strict about is looking out for the living.
It just isn't wise to let the world and his wife know anyone's personal email or anything that would effect someone living. So the personal message helps out there.
Other Brennans might be glad on the grave info.
I don't think I'm the only local person that finds the Brennans interesting.
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Thanks for that; i just wanted to be sure and also, i was thinking about it; a graveyard is a public space and anyone who cares to walk past can read the headstones.
Also, a bit of a promo for my other post in the Dublin section: 3rd Battalion, Fingal Brigade & Leixlip Flying Column. Anyone out there with any ideas, suggestions or information???
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Hi Kristof
Thought I'd go back to talking publicly just in case any bright sparks are following the saga of Terry Brennan and Annie O'Shunissy (sic, I'd imagine)
Well with the marriage cert of Francis(Terry) Brennan and Ann O'Shaughnessy cheating you out of her fathers name what can be done?
Looking back to the census, well Annie's home seems unusual.
3 infants are down as "nurse child"
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Finglas/Finglas_Town/7894/
Was Elizabeth McEvoy minding neighbourhood kids? If you look at the birth places. They seem to be giving out little clues there.
I guess her children are the only ones born in Finglas.
I guess that the "nurse children" are been shipped in from City centre which might indicate that Ann O'Shaughnessy is from Dublin but not the heart of the city or Finglas. The outskirts maybe.
Well I wonder was there an orphanage that Elizabeth was helping out with children in there infancy. Maybe she hadn't the heart to send Annie back.
The surname is not helping. It just seems to crying out to be misspelt. And it might lose the O'.
I wonder, there doesn't seem to be anyone else in Finglas with the surname in 1911 but maybe one will show up in 1901.
Probably a load of nonsense I'm airing.
Just thought I'd wonder out loud. You never know, some light bulb might start to flicker.
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Thanks, some good points that i hadn't considered.
yes, i had thought that Elizabeth McEvoy's household was a little odd; i had wondered if it was one of the few avenues for a widow to earn money; taking in nurse children.
I had also wondered for a while if perhaps Annie was in some way related to the McEvoys, perhaps Elizabeth's niece, etc. but i think that if she was, then it would have been written on the census, and there would have been no need for a formal adoption? Ok, so the marriage certificate hasn't moved us forward, so what's our next step?
Ok, so, to all our avid readers out there, how do we go about finding Annie's parents or any other details about her birth?
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...... Ok, so the marriage certificate hasn't moved us forward, so what's our next step?
Ok, so, to all our avid readers out there, how do we go about finding Annie's parents or any other details about her birth?
Have you received the marriage cert from the GRO already ?
Shane
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I've received a copy of the marriage certificate, but via a third party who kindly sourced it for me. Date of marriage is 2 June, 1926. Sadly, Annie's father is written in as unknown.
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I'd be surprised if she had any knowledge of his name that it wouldn't have been put down there. Even if they were estranged.
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All I can think of at the moment is to try for birth certs for Ann/Annie in Dublin around the right time, and then see if there s any way to connect or eliminate them. One of of them should be the correct one .. there are none that seem to match her est. age on the census exactly, but there are a few possibilities :
Annie Bridget O'Shaughnessy / Dublin North / Jan - Mar 1909
Annie O'Shaughnessy / Dublin North / Jul - Sep 1899
Anne T O'Shaughnessy/ Dublin South / Oct - Dec 1900
do you know any middle names for Ann/Annie ?
maybe looking for possible later deaths of parents, and other marriages of Annie/Ann O'Shaunessy ?
Shane
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There still is a good chance even if you had those certs there maybe no way of making a connection.
She may not be born in Finglas.
You could end up with a number of certs in front of you and still not be able to choose.
Maybe an unmarried mother might make you suspect you have the right one. But there is a chance you might never know with a birth cert alone.
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We don't know of any middle name so that won't help us; I'd narrowed it down that that list of possibles as well, but had settled upon Annie Bridgit O'Shaughnessy as the most likely, or least unlikely candidate as her estimated age puts her birth in 1904, making the 1909 registration the closest. We are working through the older members of the family to get her actual date of birth; someone, somewhere will know it; failing that it will be on her pension application (if that ever turns up).
How good is that search of births, deaths, etc? Is it fairly comprehensive or is it only a small fraction of the actual births?
Would there be any adoption records?
But as is very rightly pointed out, even if i did, by some stroke of luck actually strike the right birth certificate, how then do i prove a link with Annie? I think it would only be if the exact date of birth matched up.
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...How good is that search of births, deaths, etc? Is it fairly comprehensive or is it only a small fraction of the actual births? ...
the familysearch Irish Civil index is based on the GRO Index books - which are complete. In earlier years the occasional birth went unregistered - but I dont know if this happened very often by the 1900s
....But as is very rightly pointed out, even if i did, by some stroke of luck actually strike the right birth certificate, how then do i prove a link with Annie? ...
The only way I can think of is by a process of elimination - e.g. say you find three reasonable close births, and you research these and find that one dies unmarried and the other marries Mr. X - then you only have one left .. time-consuming and possibly expensive, but might work.
It's also possible if Ann/Annie was fostered for some reason that she did not know her exact date of birth.
Shane
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I'm not 100% but if she was offically adopted wouldn't her name have changed to McEvoy.
What year did she die?
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Sorry you told us that already
1977
the glasnevin trust site has a burial that matches her being born 1904.
http://www.glasnevintrust.ie/genealogy/
Buried on her own. But that maybe because Francis is in the Republican plot. ? ?
EDIT
Sorry I think I need a nap. Of course he's on the stone in St. Canice's graveyard
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Ok, one small step forward, Annie's birthday was 16 November and based upon her age in the census (7 years old) that puts her birth year at 1903, so her date of birth is 16 November, 1903. Does this give us a chance?
I found her record for Glasnevin, paid for the entry but it didn't really give me much.
As for why she was in Glasnevin and not St Canice's, we've just heard from another Brennan family member that she chose not to be buried there, with Francis and the rest of the Brennans because one of the graveyard gates was closed. I'm not sure of the significane of this, and which gate was it that was closed, the protestant or catholic gate?
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Ok, one small step forward, Annie's birthday was 16 November and based upon her age in the census (7 years old) that puts her birth year at 1903, so her date of birth is 16 November, 1903. Does this give us a chance? ...
the only record on the civil index that I see that would fit a November birthday is Anne T O'Shaughnessy/ Dublin South / Oct - Dec 1900
might be worth ordering that cert to see if the date of birth matches up.
You can search the BMD index on the Familysearch Irish Civil Index (http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#c=1408347;p=2;t=searchable)
It's possible that her foster mother never knew her exact date of birth and estimated her age, and gave her a birthday..
Shane
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That thought had occured to me as well.....lets just not go there........yet; that would be a pretty awful outcome.
That Annie T O'Shaughnessy may well be worth a look, but if it turns out to be a dead end i think that we'll officially be out of ideas?
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the full index details for that record are :
Name: Anne T O'Shaughnessy
Registration district: Dublin South
Record type: Birth
quarter and year: Oct - Dec 1900
Volume: 2 / Page: 581
Shane
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I was thinking, maybe on the parish record of her marriage she may have put down her mothers name. It's not caledl for on the civil records but most of the parish records have a mothers name. There's a chance she knew more about her mother than her father.
I know it might turn out a waste. I emailed the parish to see if the record is held there. Please god it's recent enough to be held local.
If there is no answer over the next week maybe it would be worth a phonecall.
If that works out at least when you find a possible birth cert you'll be more sure of it being right.
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Thank you so much for that, that's a great idea and hopefully it will turn up something.
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More bad news.
The church secretary looked up the marriage and rang me back.
Both parents are down as being unknown. She'll post me out a transcription of that.
So I guess your back to pot shots with the register of births.
I'll say this even though it will make the heart sink, she could be registered as "female" O'Shaughnessy (and all the varieties of spelling for that surname.)
It's not unusual to get ages wrong on the census but with a child, well, you'd image she must have at least looked 7. I wonder could she have been older and looked young due to a bad start in life. There would have been a lot of unfed children in Dublin regardless of where they were brought up.
I'm just trying to predict which way the error of age would be most lightly.
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Thank you so much for that; it may not tell me exactly what i was after but its all research and its all wonderfully helpful; oddly enough i've spent some time looking at the witnesses to the wedding; seems there was a connection to the O'Brien family that i've got to look into.
But in the meantime, yes, waiting for what the registry office turns up, fingers crossed.
However, i've been making great progress in finding information on Francis Brennan's imprisonment in Mountjoy and the tunnelling attempts both into and out of the prison during the Civil War.
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eh man i think we might be related...i made an account just cause i saw this
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Hey, thanks for getting in touch. Which family do you think you may be related to?
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Hi,
I only came across this thread tonight so I'm not sure if you are still interested . I am Patrick "Moss" Brennan's great granddaughter and I have been told quite a bit about the family history.
Terry Brennan's Wife Ann was known as Aunt Nan by my family. We have memorial cards here and I'm sure we have one for her somewhere around. So I might be able to give you birth/death dates , not 100% positive though but I will have a look if you still want information. I'm not sure how much I would know that would be any use to you but I might be able to give you some. Let me know...
Regards,
Sarah
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HI,
I have been researching my Brennan family tree and not getting very far. I read through all of this earlier and then when I visited my aunt earlier she told me that we are related to the Brennan's of Finglas??
My ggrandfather was Michael Brennan born 1875 and was a railway labourer who lived at canalside inbetween binns bridge and Russell Bridge. I don't know much more about his family. My grandad (Ignatius known as Ned) used to tell a story about when he was a young boy the police turning up and searching the house and taking someone away - they were either hiding a wanted man or were hiding arms for the IRA, he wasn't sure.
Do you know if this is true and if infact we are related?
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Hi,
I've never heard of a Michael or Ned Brennan in the family but I will ask. Is there any way you could get more information ?!?
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I will carry on asking around and come back to you.
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Hi cuckoo80,
I've not come across the name Michael Brennan so far but with a birth date of 1875 it is possble that he belongs to the generation preceeding the one on which i have most information. The Brennan Family that i've been researching goes back to John Brennan (b.1847). There is no Michael Brennan amongst John Brennan's children but it is possible that he could be John Brennan's nephew from one of John Brennan's siblings? Do you know anything more about your family's connection with Finglas? Interesting stuff....
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cuckoo80,
Just wondering if you could share where your GGrandfather and Grandfather were born (and parents names) and their dates of birth, it might help us pin down any connections?
Chris
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HI,
I have been researching my Brennan family tree and not getting very far. I read through all of this earlier and then when I visited my aunt earlier she told me that we are related to the Brennan's of Finglas??
My ggrandfather was Michael Brennan born 1875 and was a railway labourer who lived at canalside inbetween binns bridge and Russell Bridge. I don't know much more about his family. My grandad (Ignatius known as Ned) used to tell a story about when he was a young boy the police turning up and searching the house and taking someone away - they were either hiding a wanted man or were hiding arms for the IRA, he wasn't sure.
Do you know if this is true and if infact we are related?
The late Michael Brennan was my great grandfather Naish was my grandfathers brother my grandfather was Michael from Railway Cottage Royal Canal
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Many of my Brennan relatives are in St. Canice cemetery. My antecedents moved from Finglas to Railway Cottage Royal Canal (Russell bridge & Binns Bridge) There was one other Brennan family living in Finglas that of Charles Brennan his family as far as I am aware are unconnected with mine.
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I dont know for def if the story is true as my grandad has been dead for 20 yrs
It sounds like we are definately related which makes your parent my
Dad's first cousin? Was your grandad the eldest child? I know there were 14 - 16 children and have tracked down a few long lost relatives but had drawn a blank with your grandad's family.
My grandad was called both ned or naish and he moved to England during the second world war where he met my granny. He was married to a Mary Rochester in Dublin and they had a son who grandad left with his wife when he came to Birmingham. He had a brother Owen who moved to aldershot in England and a brother Matthew who also moved to England. He also had a brother William who's family live in Dublin, brother John, sister Kathleen, Ellen, Sarah and Annie offthe top of my head.
My(our) ggdad was married to Annie Johnston and his parents were Michael and Sarah. Does this fit in with the information you have?
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Yes it seems we are related my grandfather Michael was indeed the eldest. I went to your late grandfather's funeral at Whitton Road.
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This is good stuff. Even though you guys aren't related to the Brennan family that i've been working on its very helpful as i can now be sure that all the names that you've mentioned are not part of the same family.
How far have you managed to get back with your Brennan family? I've only managed to get back as far as Charles Brennan and i've hit a brick wall. As you're familiar with Finglas and the records available, any thoughts or suggestions on how to get Charles' parents or even find any of his siblings?
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I'm sure you will agree if you go far enough back you will find we are all related.... :) or perhaps not... it depends on
which story you believe :-\
I have been researching the Brennan's from Finglas for many years... I am sorry to say I don't have all the answers....
How does this fit in the scheme of things:-
Baptism, Charles Brennan 2nd May 1852 Finglas
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Yep, he fits in; that Charles Brennan (1852 - 1887) was a great grand uncle of the current generation; he was the second son of Patrick Brennan (c.1821 - 1907), who was the son of the Charles Brennan (c.1780 - 1850) i'm trying to find more information on. How far back did you manage to go?
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I obtained this record from Fingal F.H.S some years ago... it is recorded in St. Margaret's parish church records Finglas
Charles Baptism, 2nd May 1852 Father Patrick Brennan Mother Margaret Lynch
I believe a member of the Mormon church has submitted the same information and is recorded in the IGI
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I came across this thread while looking for the famous photo from the somme of my great grandfather Charlie Brennan.
http://www.criticalpast.com/video/65675048369_British-soldiers_Battle-of-Somme_wheeled-stretchers_carrying-a-wounded-on-a-back
http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=63
My name is Donal Flanagan. To my knowledge, Charlie has 5 daughters (Kathleen, Elizabeth 'Ciss', * , * & *) and one son (*), one of which was my granny Kathleen Flanagan (who died in 1996) and also my grand-aunt Elizabeth 'Ciss' Murray (who died in 2009). Charlie would have lived with Ciss and her husband Paddy Murray up until he died (sometime in the early 80's if i remember).
Both Ciss and my granny Kathleen married two best-friends Paddy Murray (originally from Moate, Co. Westmeath) and James 'Jim' Flanagan. Both worked at the famous Dreaper horse racing yard in Greenogue, Kilsallaghan (where my parents, uncle and cousins still live), near Ashbourne Co. Meath. Paddy was head lad and Jim head farrier/blacksmith during the golden years of the yard in the mid-60's when the legendary steeple-chaser Arkle ruled supreme.
I vaguely recollect Charlie from visiting my Aunt Ciss as a young child. He was a tough man! You could tell even at my age that he had a particularly hard life.
http://www.dreaperracing.com/history.html
http://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/Arkle-Memorial-Statue-Fund/199761446728598 - there is a great picture here of the men in Dreapers yard in the mid-60's
It’s ironic also that the Brennan clan are also attached to another famous 20th century image, that of Paddy Murray (* Brennan’s husband) giving Arlkle his daily bottle of the black stuff!
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Arkle-looking-shoulder-Paddy-Murray/dp/B003CKHOO0/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1321020307&sr=8-5
I will be home this weekend so should be able to provide more information from my Dad (Thomas Flanagan) or Unlce Dessie or Aunt Miriam as they are very knowledgeable on the Brennan family tree.
I found the picture of Charlie and posted the following on my facebook page today. This thread has provided brilliant information so thank you.
Charles Brennan 6087 Royal Dublin Fusiliers
With WWI remembrance Sunday coming up I have been scouring the web over the past week (including joining uber-nerdish WWI forums) for a photo of my great-grandfather Charlie Brennan who fought in the Great War (WWI). Charlie is the man behind a very famous photo, as he carries a dying Tipperary man through the trenches during the famous Battle of the Somme in 1916. Unfortunately the man died an hour later and Charlie as an Irish man fighting for Britain (like so many other Irish men) was awarded no medal for bravery or even a military pension. Charlie was also a founding member of Erins Isle GAA club in Finglas (where this photo proudly hangs). It’s amazing to see the forums on the web dedicated to this image and makes me and the rest of the Flanagan clan very proud indeed.
(*) Moderator Note : Edited in accordance with RootsChat policy of not publishing details of living people here, or details of people who may still be living. This is to protect all concerned from spam, identity abuse, internet abuse, etc, etc.
Please use the Personal Message (PM) system for exchanging personal data - new members require three posts to have full access to the PM system.
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Have PM'd you Donal, but for the benefit of the other readers i will provided a extra few details:
Sadly the service number 6087 is indeed of a charles brennan but that particular Charles Brennan died of wounds in 1918; The only other matching Charles Brennan in the Royal Dublin Fusiliers was a captain, while the Charles Brennan we are searching for was a private. Sadly we are yet to find Charles Brennan's service number as it is entirely possible that he was not in the Royal Dublin Fusiliers at all. However, expanding the search to other British and Irish units still has not turned up a clear match. But the search goes on!!
Other parts of the Brennan family have told me that Charles was definately awarded a medal for his bravery and was entitled to a pension. However, the medal was loaned to a family friend many years later and never returned and is now presumed lost; and charles refused his service pension, possibly due to his strong republican stance.
If anyone can add something, no matter how minor to the task of identifying an iconic picture of WW1 and the battle of the Somme with a young irish man from Finglas it would be much appreciated.
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Hi there
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I'm not quite sure how to use this website, don't really know what I'm doing. I'm related to "Donal" above. Charlie Brennan was my Grandfather and my Mother is his daughter and the only surviving member of Charlie and Elizabeths children. Charlie was married to Elizabeth Farrell from St Margarets in Co Dublin. I can remember Grandad well, always sang 16 verses of something or other at all the family weddings. If only he knew how interested everyone is in him now. The information you have about Charlies service number is exactly the same as what I have, that number belonged to another Soldier who was "gassed", I think. I tried to find some information on Charlies war career but kept coming up against a brick wall and I gave up, its a bit of a mystery really. Charlie did get a medal, my Mother can confirm that, but he gave a loan of it to a veteran who wanted to march in a parade and he never got the medal back. I think a cousin may have tried to get it back some years ago but to no avail. Anyway get in touch if you want any more information. The man in the famous photo is definitely Grandad, we have a copy hanging at home as did all Charlie's daughters and one of them even had the original photo. It could still be hanging in her house. Incidentally, one little anecdote which you might find amusing. Charlie brought back a german helmet from the front. One of the ones with the tall spikes. I can remember that being in the house in Finglas when I used to visit as a child, as I'm sure a lot of my cousins will and my Mother can remember Granny collecting the eggs in it!! There are plenty of Charlies descendants still living in Finglas and Ashbourne and a few scattered elsewhere. He has a very large family!!
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Hi all,
I am also related to the Brennans. Charlie would have been my great grandfather. My own grandfather was Brendan Brennan now deceased as is his wife Hilda. I came across this topic by googling Charlies picture in the trenches from WW1. It is a picture that is proudly on show in my mothers house. I have come across many stories on the internet regarding the picture of Charlie carrying the wounded soldier in which British families are claiming that the image is of their own father/grandfather which i would love to put right. With the 100 year anniversary of The Great War i have seen stations such as the History channel and Discovery channel actively seeking relatives of certain soldiers. I have mentioned it to my own mother about going forward but it was not for her.
But Chris as was said in a previous post there are plenty of Brennans still left around the Finglas area. Some are still involved in Erins Isle Gaa club, some involved in local soccer clubs also and i think some are still involved in St Margarets Gaa club too
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Hello,
I am a member of the Kilfeather family in Sligo. Margaret Brennan from Finglas was my grandmother. I have photographs of Margaret and the complete family tree of the Kilfeather family. I would be delighted to share this record with any descendant of the Brennan or Kilfeather clan.
Roy Kilfeather
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Hi Roy,
That would be fantastic, my father would be a nephew of your mother. He celebrated his 90th birthday two weeks ago and delights in the family history. He constantly asks questions about it. Perhaps I could pm you.
Ria.
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Roy will need to have a minimum of two posts before he will be able to receive PM. So Roy has to post once more.
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Hi Roy,
My mistake my father is a nephew of your grandmother.
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Hi Ria,
I am new to the Rootschat site and a little unsure what is the best way to pass information to you on Margaret Brennan and her extended family. I would be delighted to send to your father all the information that I have recorded. I have a secure work email address if this is possible. Please let me know.
Roy
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http://www.rootschat.com/help/pms.php
Link explains about PM (personal messages)
Link says you have to have 3 posts but it works after 2 now :)
There is a "scroll" icon under each persons profile. Click on that and you can send Riaob information privately.